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Send us a text This week, we have a true full-circle moment on the show. After listening to our recent episode with Kevin Klinger on referee mindset, Regional Referee Alex Perez sent in an incredible email about how he immediately applied those lessons during a grueling college showcase weekend. We were so moved by his story—and how he turned a potential on-field disaster into a success—that we immediately invited him on the pod to share his experience firsthand. Based in West Virginia, Alex is a USSF Regional Referee and National Candidate who officiates in major collegiate pools like the ACC and Big 12, as well as USL2 matches. Beyond the whistle, he is a dedicated mentor and assigner committed to building the next generation of officials. Alex views the pitch as a "high-speed leadership lab," balancing technical mastery with the emotional intelligence required to manage the game's biggest personalities. In this episode, Alex takes us inside the "8 PM Wall"—that specific moment of physical and mental exhaustion during a tournament when patience wears thin. He opens up about a specific U19 match where fatigue triggered a snarky response to a player, and how he used a specific "breathe and reset" technique to regain control. We discuss the importance of body language, how to make allies on the pitch, and how he turned a hostile environment into a game where players were swapping jerseys with him at the final whistle. We also dive into the "suitcase life" of a traveling official (including Alex’s intense "Rule of 3" packing strategy) and share one of the funniest heckler stories involving a mustache that you will ever hear. Plus, we have special offers from our sponsors, Refersports and Umpiro, to help you upgrade your assigning software and your footwear. You are going to love the honesty, humility, and energy Alex brings to the show! Support the show

Send us a text Pressure doesn’t just come from the scoreboard—it lives in your head and your chest when the crowd roars and a coach questions your integrity. We sit down with Kevin Klinger, Director of Referee Education and Development at U.S. Officials and founder of Officials Mental Edge, to break down the mental skills that separate solid refs from truly elite officials. Kevin brings a rare dual lens as a longtime pro referee and licensed counselor, translating sports psychology into practical, on‑field tools. We unpack how a real development ecosystem goes far beyond assignments: structured curricula, on‑site sessions, online learning, and high‑level mentorship that builds focus, confidence, and resilience over time. Kevin maps the moments that derail referees—performance attacks like biased or blind, identity jabs, background slights, and disrespectful behaviors—and explains why naming triggers is the first step to control. From there, he lays out a repeatable reset: acknowledge you’re triggered, center with deliberate breath and strong posture, address the conflict with clarity, then consciously transition before the next decision. It’s a trainable protocol that stops rumination, reduces compounding errors, and keeps your head in the game. We also dive into retention and why so many officials leave between years one and two. The fix isn’t just more laws‑of‑the‑game lectures; it’s teaching emotional regulation, mistake recovery, and communication early. Kevin shares elite habits you can use today: ask your crew before kickoff to find one improvement for you, journal after matches, review targeted clips to prime decision‑making, and use visualization to rehearse tough moments. Along the way, you’ll hear candid stories, gear hacks for focus, and quick takes on captain interactions and pregame routines. If you’re serious about refereeing—whether you’re working grassroots or aiming for the pro pathway—these mental skills are your edge. Listen, take notes, and try one reset routine in your next match. If this episode helps, follow the show, share it with your crew, and leave a review so more referees can build their mental game with us. Support the show

Send us a text A year can include joy and pain without destroying you. In 2025, I said goodbye to my dad—the person I called on every big news story, new tech breakthrough, or small family win—and then rebuilt my life in a way he’d love to hear about. That mix of grief and momentum shaped everything: how I left about work, how I re-built my career, and how I chose where to invest my energy. The moment the fun drained out of a private equity‑owned, corporate job and the relief that came with choosing a nine‑person company where simple, focused execution mattered more than politics. Leads spiked, deals closed, and I found my stride again. With the commute gone, Refs Need Love Too took off: more than 2,000 orders shipped, new grip socks and made‑in‑USA buzzer flags, custom coins and badges for associations, and a robust global supply chain. On the creator side, TikTok and Facebook revenue jumped alongside brand partnerships, and creator events in Atlanta and LA cemented the feeling that I belong in that room—even as one of the oldest creators there. The mission sharpened with consulting work for US Soccer, where I helped launch the national referee abuse policy with videos, social assets, and a clear message that reached millions. That momentum led to a full‑time role with SoCal Soccer, building referee development and a learning platform that bridges the macro and micro: content for a global community and hands‑on training for refs running U8 fields every weekend. On the whistle, I earned high school playoff assignments, State Cup finals, and a U.S. women’s youth national team AR slot, then headed to MLS Nextfest to learn from FIFA and CONCACAF referee coaches about the living nature of the game, the spirit of the laws, and the art of reading play. Family milestones kept me grounded, and to honor my dad’s kindness, I'm launching the Pops Scholarship Fund: annual $1,000 and $500 awards for young referees pursuing education. It’s a way to keep his name moving forward while investing in the next voices with a whistle. If you’re building a life you’d be proud to tell someone you miss, you’ll find a lot to hold onto here—practical playbooks, hard‑won lessons, and a strong heartbeat for the referee community. Listen, share with a friend who needs momentum, and leave a review to help more refs find us. Support the show

Send us a text Ever tried to judge a play from six feet off the ground with bodies flying past and zero replays? That’s where referees live, and it’s nothing like the view from the stands. We sit down with RefReps CEO Kyle Armstrong to explore how first‑person video, multi‑angle breakdowns, and short, high‑impact modules are rebuilding the referee pipeline and reshaping sports culture from the ground up. Kyle walks us through the origin story, the tech stack, and the classroom model that puts officiating into high schools and colleges. Students rotate between playing and reffing, then take those skills into local leagues for paid assignments. The result is a rare win‑win: more covered games, real income for teens, and a surge in life skills like conflict resolution, time management, and composure under pressure. We dig into the data too—confidence and intent to officiate hold above 80 percent across tens of thousands of learners—plus why brain science favors immersive reps over dry rule drills. We also look at the culture problem. RefReps installs “Do You Have What It Takes To Make The Call?” kiosks at a state championship, and crowds only get 62 percent accuracy with only two choices and a ticking clock. That humbling moment sparks empathy without lectures, and it’s changing how coaches and parents behave on the sideline. From pricing and annual rule updates to VR experiments and partnerships with NFHS, this is a practical blueprint for strengthening youth sports, improving game management, and keeping officials in the game. If you care about fair play, better coaching, and safer sidelines, hit follow, share this with a friend who loves sports, and leave a review to help more people see the game through the eyes of the officials. Support the show

Send us a text Big games don’t get easier; you get better at carrying them. Ahead of my first State Cup final, I open up about nerves, preparation, and the quiet work that turns pressure into focus: fitness tuned for late sprints, gear and crew checks that prevent chaos, and a five-minute reset that keeps me in the match instead of in my head. The heart of the story is confidence earned over 1,500 matches and the decision to judge what’s in front of me, not the crowd around me. Howard Webb’s The Man in the Middle adds hard-won wisdom to that mindset. We walk through his Goodison Park lesson on how dangerous it is to “hide” from decisions, the halftime mind games players use to tilt your judgment, and the power of owning mistakes quickly so the next call is clean. We also dig into respect, or the lack of it, even at the top level, and why referee solidarity is non-negotiable. From there, we push for practical change: body cameras that reduce abuse and dissent, and communication systems that help train new officials in real time. If the sidelines already have multiple cameras, it’s time the referee team had tools that protect and develop them too. The mailbag brings warmth and urgency. A 60-year-old ref logging 60 games makes the case for body cams after assaults. A dad-daughter duo in North Carolina discovers how ref work builds confidence, grit, and a bond that outlasts any scoreline. For every late starter chasing a high assignment, there’s a reminder to keep family first; the matches will go on, but the breakfasts, concerts, and small moments at home matter most. Subscribe, share this with a ref who needs a lift, and leave a review telling us the one habit that steadies you before kickoff. Support the show

Send us a text We sat down with Daneen Gonçalves, founder and chief visionary officer of The Referee Advocates, to unpack a simple idea with massive impact: treat referees like an integral and supported part of your club, build clear development pathways and watch the entire matchday experience improve. Danine brings decades as a player, coach, official and leadership professional, and she’s using that experience to help clubs become great places for referees to work and grow. We dig into the broken parts of the system—referees thrown into games they’re not ready for, clubs that see assigning as a checkbox, and a lack of mentorship that leaves kids isolated. Daneen outlines TRA’s answer: partner directly with clubs to set standards for sideline behavior, fund mentoring, and match officials to appropriate levels. We explore a cohort model with Google Classroom, on-field scrimmage reps, and weekend tournament learning that turns shaky confidence into steady game management. There’s also a powerful mental health piece: training teens to regulate after mistakes and coaching parents on what real support looks like after tough matches. Expect practical takeaways for directors of coaching, assigners, and parents. Learn how a few dollars per game can support mentors, how presence on the touchline quiets volatility, and why data and feedback loops help everyone focus on quality. We also share clinic insights—from ceremonial free kicks to communication that keeps play fair and safe. If you care about retention, safer fields, and cleaner soccer, this conversation is your blueprint for change. Enjoyed the episode? Follow, share with your club leadership, and leave a review to help more people find the show. Let’s build a culture where referees thrive and the game gets better for everyone. Support the show

Send us a text Tired of holding your flag up for Offside, while the whole sideline screams “REF!”? We go straight at the problem and bring on engineer and referee Sam Rall, the creator of RareBit Offcial buzzer flags. He shows how a simple haptic signal can transform crew communication, reduce chaos, and keep matches flowing.  David opens with the bigger picture—why innovation in referee education meets resistance from comfortable committees—and then we zoom into the design and decisions that make a better tool: modern Bluetooth 5 for reliable range, firmware that boosts power only when needed, and an ergonomic, slightly elliptical grip that feels right for 90 minutes and beyond. Sam takes us from sticker shock to solution. He breaks down how legacy electronic flags cost hundreds more than their parts, why redundancy matters even with comms, and where a buzz beats a shout: delayed offside, coffin-corner touchlines, quick subs, and review awareness. We map out practical pregame logic—press without flag to cue involvement questions, distinct patterns for AR1, AR2, or fourth official—turning a basic button into a shared language that prevents confusion after the net ripples. Building hardware isn’t glamorous. Sam shares the five-year journey through prototypes, molds, dead boards, firmware bugs, and the realities of a niche market where American refs often buy their own gear. The payoff is real: long battery life with USB C charging, waterproof construction, and sets that sell out because they simply work. Along the way, David makes the case for builder-led progress in officiating—tools made by refs, for refs, at a price that brings pro-level communication within reach of the grassroots. If you believe better decisions start with better tools, you’ll love this one. Subscribe, share with your crew, and leave a review to help more referees find gear and ideas that make the game better for everyone. Support the show

Send us a text The whistle isn’t the hard part. It’s the noise around it—sidelines boiling over, subtle bias that undermines authority, and those early games where one bad interaction can end a career before it starts. We sit down with rising official Mia Clark to talk about staying in the game, building real confidence, and why supporting women on the whistle changes everything. Mia traces her path from a 14-year-old assistant learning the lines in the rain to assignments in the USLW and high school state playoffs. She shares the moments that almost pushed her out, the mentors who kept her grounded, and a simple, firm script that turns chaos into clarity: address the negative behavior, set boundaries and enforce consequences.  Along the way, we cover practical tools for young refs—rehearsed language for dissent and when to demand crowd management or terminate a match. Mia’s stories reveal how small choices by assistants, coaches, and athletic directors can empower or erode a center’s authority.  We also make the case for refereeing as a flexible, high-value job for students that builds decision-making, conflict resolution, and composure under pressure. And we spotlight why seeing women command a match matters for every player, parent, and future official. If you care about better soccer, safer games, and keeping good people on the field, this conversation is a blueprint. Listen, share with your crew, and help change the culture one match at a time. Subscribe, leave a review, and tell us: what’s your go-to line for handling dissent? Support the show

Send us a text Grief has a way of focusing the lens on what actually matters: how someone lived, how they treated those who couldn't fight back, and what they stood for even when it was unpopular. My dad never reffed, but he taught me everything about making life’s hardest decisions—kindness first, integrity always, and the courage to do the hard right thing when it counts. We trace a life well lived: European trips, science missions to Alaska and Hawaii, a deep love of national parks, and a New Yorker’s unlikely passion for country line dancing that led to a 30–year romance.  We revisit tossing a baseball on city streets, marathon training before dawn, and the quiet discipline that turns effort into outcome. We share how encyclopedias on the floor, a giant Webster’s dictionary, and early computers turned learning disabilities into a path forward—fueling concise communication, clear thinking, and the confidence to advocate.  You’ll hear about a 37–year career at Queensborough Community College, summers at NASA, an 1,100–page dissertation on wave theory, and a refusal to soften standards just to keep the peace. The throughline is leadership: empathy without condescension, accountability without cruelty, and match control rooted in respect and the spirit of the game. There’s family history and service, too: caregiving after Holocaust loss, showing up for elders, single fatherhood with PTA meetings and homemade lasagna, and even building one of the first elementary school computer labs—so kids could have opportunities he never had.  The takeaway is simple: love unconditionally, stay curious, work past comfort, and anchor your choices in honor. That’s the playbook we use on the field and at home, and it’s the legacy we hope to live up to—one “good man” moment at a time. If this story resonates, share it with someone who taught you a hard lesson with a gentle hand.  Support the show

Send us a text Landing my dream job as Director of Referee Programming and Development at SoCal Soccer League marks the culmination of a four-year journey that began when I started the Refs Need Love Too channel as a joke in 2021. What started as an escape from corporate burnout has transformed into a full-time opportunity to improve referee development across the largest soccer league in America, with over 4,400 teams and 40,000 players. This career shift represents everything I've been working toward—taking what I've done nights and weekends for years and making it my day job. The position allows me to create comprehensive training systems that address what current referee education lacks: practical guidance for managing real-world match situations beyond basic mechanics and rules. Current referee training focuses too heavily on the top 1% of officials while neglecting the 99% working grassroots matches. These grassroots referees face entirely different challenges than what's seen in professional matches with perfect pitches and elite athletes. We need practical training for managing bunched play, varying skill levels, and parent interactions at youth levels. For new referees especially, success depends on factors rarely covered in certification courses. Professional appearance creates a crucial first impression. Confident presence during check-in establishes authority. Calling fouls consistently prevents matches from spiraling out of control. Clear communication fills information vacuums that might otherwise be filled with complaints. Proper movement demonstrates effort and improves positioning for making accurate calls. Whether you're a new referee seeking guidance, an experienced official looking to mentor others, or someone considering this rewarding path, remember that refereeing isn't just about applying rules—it's about managing people, creating positive environments, and finding purpose through service to the game we love. Support the show

Send us a text What does it take to officiate at the highest level of world soccer? Matthew Conger, who refereed at both the 2018 and 2022 FIFA World Cups, pulls back the curtain on the journey from grassroots to elite officiating in this fascinating conversation. Growing up as a goalkeeper in Georgia before eventually representing New Zealand on the international stage, Conger's unique path provides rare insights into what truly separates good referees from great ones. "Positioning and movement is the bedrock of good decision-making," he explains, revealing how sometimes just two or three meters makes the difference between seeing a play clearly or missing crucial details. The psychological aspects of elite officiating take center stage as Conger shares his philosophy that "pressure is a privilege" – a mindset shift that helped him perform on soccer's biggest stages. He details the deliberate team culture he built with his officiating crews, including creating meaningful team logos and focusing on emotional regulation to ensure clear decision-making under pressure. Perhaps most surprisingly, Conger demystifies World Cup referees by noting they were "just like me" – dedicated, hardworking individuals with a passion for the game rather than superhuman figures. This humanizing perspective extends to his approach to mistakes, emphasizing the importance of owning errors, analyzing their causes, and using them as growth opportunities rather than dwelling in "that toxic soup of imposter syndrome." Now through his company Total Referee, Conger is dedicated to developing officials at all levels using an integrated approach that recognizes referees as "their own athletic population" with unique developmental needs. His vision of refereeing as a creative endeavor that enables "the beautiful game to be played beautifully" reminds us why officials truly are essential stakeholders in soccer. Whether you're an aspiring referee, a current official looking to improve, or simply curious about what happens behind the whistle, this conversation offers invaluable wisdom from someone who's been at the very pinnacle of the profession. Support the show

Send us a text What if the secret to transforming youth soccer wasn't silencing parents, but engaging them properly? In this eye-opening conversation, Skye Eddy, founder of SoccerParenting.com and "The Sideline Project" challenges the conventional wisdom about "crazy soccer parents" and reveals a path forward that benefits everyone in the youth sports ecosystem. The narrative that parents are the worst part of youth sports has dominated for too long. Skye argues that while the truly problematic parents make up just 4-5% of the population, they've "ruined it for everyone" - driving away referees and coaches while silencing the level-headed majority who fear being judged if they become involved. Through her groundbreaking work, Skye is helping parents distinguish between supportive and distracting behaviors, with remarkable results: 32% report improved relationships with their children after just 15 minutes of training. We dive deep into the structural problems plaguing youth soccer today - from the "professionalization" of childhood play to the excessive travel and financial burdens placed on families. Skye explains how these pressures create the perfect storm of parental stress that manifests as sideline behavior issues. The conversation takes a fascinating turn as we explore coach-parent dynamics and how establishing proper boundaries and communication channels naturally improves the environment for everyone, including referees. With over 40,000 people already committed to the Sideline Project Pledge and partnerships with 175+ clubs nationwide, Skye's vision is gaining momentum. Her ultimate goal? A youth sports landscape where parent education is required, coaches are certified in parent engagement, and the focus shifts back to where it belongs: creating positive experiences for children. Whether you're a referee seeking relief from sideline pressure, a coach struggling with parent relationships, or a parent navigating the complex youth soccer landscape, this conversation offers practical insights that could transform your experience. Join us as we reimagine youth sports from the sidelines up. Support the show

Send us a text What separates great referees from good ones isn't just knowledge of the laws—it's emotional intelligence. This deeply personal episode explores the challenging balance of life as a sports official while introducing a powerful mental framework called the  "Let Them" theory from Mel Robbins." We begin with an intimate look at the struggle to balance a demanding marketing career, family transitions, and referee responsibilities. As my two oldest children prepare to leave for college just as the new soccer season begins, I'm reminded how referees must constantly juggle competing priorities while still showing up fully present on match day. For the first time publicly, I share a chapter from my upcoming book about the referee journey. It traces my path from undersized rugby player to soccer official, highlighting how my father's lessons in resilience and discipline shaped my approach to officiating. This rare glimpse into a referee's origin story helps humanize the person behind the whistle. The core of the episode introduces Mel Robbins' "Let Them" Theory specifically applied to refereeing scenarios. This game-changing approach helps officials distinguish between harmless emotional release versus true dissent requiring intervention. When a player screams in frustration after missing a shot or a coach processes a call verbally—let them. When criticism becomes personal or persistent—that's when you step in with calm authority. Most powerfully, the theory extends to self-compassion: referees must learn to "let go" of their own mistakes rather than carrying them like emotional weights. The ability to acknowledge errors, learn from them, and move forward with confidence isn't just helpful—it's essential for longevity in officiating. Whether you're a new referee looking for game management techniques or an experienced official seeking mental frameworks for the toughest scenarios, this episode offers practical wisdom for maintaining composure when everyone around you is losing theirs. Share your own experiences applying these principles in your next match! Support the show

Send us a text Ever wonder why soccer fields seem to ignite emotions like few other places? In this eye-opening conversation, Dr. Ryan Martin – known as the Anger Professor – reveals the perfect psychological storm that makes pitches emotional pressure cookers. Dr. Martin challenges our fundamental understanding of anger, explaining it's not inherently negative but rather a signal of perceived injustice or goal-blocking. On the soccer field, this manifests when calls feel unfair or when someone believes the referee is preventing them from achieving their objective – winning. What makes sporting events uniquely volatile is the combination of high stakes, subjective decisions, and elevated physiological states that mirror emotional arousal. For referees facing sideline rage, Martin offers practical wisdom: find your "pause button" by taking just a few seconds before responding to heated situations. This tiny delay gives everyone's brain oxygen to move past the reactive "lizard brain" response. Communication proves equally crucial – briefly explaining significant decisions helps fill information vacuums that would otherwise be filled with assumptions about bias or incompetence. The most powerful insight might be his explanation of why referees ruminate on negative interactions long after matches end. This tendency to replay difficult moments isn't a weakness but evidence of caring deeply about excellence. While emotionally uncomfortable, this reflection process ultimately drives improvement when channeled constructively. Whether you're a veteran referee seeking better match management techniques, a coach wanting to understand sideline dynamics, or a parent navigating youth sports culture, this conversation offers transformative perspectives on channeling emotions productively in competitive environments. Ready to transform how you handle emotions on the pitch? Listen now and discover why understanding anger might be the most powerful tool in your referee toolkit. Dr. Ryan Martin can be found here: https://alltheragescience.com/martin/ https://www.instagram.com/angerprofessor/ https://www.tiktok.com/@angerprofessor Support the show

Send us a text Soccer's law book undergoes a mini-revolution with the 2025-2026 Laws of the Game, and referee Leland Grant, National Referee Coach and Umpiro founder, breaks down the four most significant changes poised to transform how matches unfold across all levels of play. The first major change introduces a powerful new tool for match officials: the captain-only zone. When surrounded by multiple players, referees can now signal for a four-meter exclusion zone where only the designated team captain may approach. This mechanic directly addresses referee harassment, requiring captains to wear proper armbands and take responsibility for communication. Players violating this protected space face yellow cards for dissent, transforming how disputes are managed on the field. Perhaps most revolutionary is the guidance around the amount of time a goalkeeper may have possesion. The widely ignored six-second rule transforms into a more practical eight-second limit with an innovative visual countdown. Referees now raise their hand showing five fingers when three seconds have elapsed and count down visually until zero, with violations resulting in a corner kick rather than the previous indirect free kick. This balanced approach promises to eliminate goalkeeper time-wasting while providing clear visual cues to everyone on the field. The drop ball procedure receives welcome clarification, allowing referees to use common sense in awarding possession to teams that would have clearly gained the ball, rather than rigidly following the "last touched" principle. The only exception remains within the penalty area, where drop balls always go to the defending goalkeeper regardless of circumstances. These changes reflect soccer's commitment to fairness, clarity, and respect while addressing longtime frustrations with inconsistent rule application. While some competitions like MLS will delay implementation until 2026, most leagues worldwide will adopt these changes beginning July 1st. Ready to understand these changes more deeply? Visit ussoccer.com/lawsofthegamechanges for videos and detailed explanations that will help you prepare for soccer's new era. Support the show