Advertise on podcast: The Trial

In October 2021, David Parfett tragically found his son, Tom, dead in a hotel room in Surrey. Tom was just 22 years old. David was determined to find the truth behind his son’s death. He followed Tom’s digital footprint and made a shocking discovery. A man called Kenneth Law had set up an online company to exploit vulnerable people suffering from mental illness. He helped them take their own lives by sending them poison through the post. David soon discovered that Tom wasn’t the only person to have received the lethal substance. Law had sent more than 1,200 packages to 40 countries around the world. With the help of a journalist, David tracked down Law and confronted him about his crimes. Law was then arrested in Canada and formally admitted to causing the deaths of 73 victims from England and Wales. However, following a plea deal, Law pleaded guilty to 14 counts of aiding and abetting suicide in Canada. In this episode, we hear from some of the victims’ families at the Supreme Court of Ontario, where a hearing took place last week. More than 50 relatives of Canadian and British victims gave incredibly moving statements to the judge. Subscribe via https://plus.thecrimedesk.com Follow us on TikTok @DailyMailCrime Email us [email protected] WhatsApp us +447796657512 (start your message with ‘Trial’) Presenter: Caroline Cheetham and Liz Hull Guest: David Parfett Editor: Chelsey Ranore Creative Director: Caroline Cheetham Assistant Producer: Harriet Muckle Production Manager: Vittoria Cecchini A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular. Caroline and Liz speak to David about tracking down Law and the impact his horrific actions had on his family. The Trial series uses actors and some voices generated by AI. Their words are taken as verbatim from the official court transcript. Click here to sign up to The Crime Desk's weekly newsletter. It's free and packed with exclusive interviews, expert insight, and gripping deep dive investigations from across the world. A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

When 22-year-old Julie Hogg failed to come home from work in 1989, her mother, Ann Ming, immediately knew something was wrong. Police searched Julie’s home in County Durham but found no sign of her. They believed she had run away to London. Three months later, when Ann went to Julie’s home, she noticed a terrible smell coming from the bathroom. She discovered that the bath panel was loose and found her daughter’s badly decomposing body behind it. Julie had been strangled and sexually assaulted. Julie’s killer, Billy Dunlop, went on trial twice, but both trials ended with a hung jury. Later, while serving a prison sentence for another crime, Dunlop confessed to murdering Julie. But under the double jeopardy laws in place at the time, he could not be tried for the same offence again. Determined to get justice for her daughter, Ann fought tirelessly to have the historic double jeopardy rule in England and Wales abolished. In this episode, Liz speaks to Ann Ming and Julie’s son, Kevin Hogg, about their fight to reform the law and get justice for Julie. Liz is also joined by journalist Stephen Wright to discuss the Stephen Lawrence campaign and how the new legislation eventually allowed Gary Dobson and David Norris to be prosecuted for Stephen’s murder. Subscribe via https://plus.thecrimedesk.com/simon-levy Follow us on TikTok @DailyMailCrime Email us [email protected] WhatsApp us +447796657512 (start your message with ‘Trial’) Presenter: Liz Hull Guest: Fiona Duffy Editor: Chelsey Ranore Creative Director: Caroline Cheetham Assistant Producer: Harriet Muckle Production Manager: Vittoria Cecchini A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular. Click here to sign up to The Crime Desk's weekly newsletter. It's free and packed with exclusive interviews, expert insight, and gripping deep dive investigations from across the world. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Can new government measures really improve the experience of rape victims in the criminal justice system? With thousands of rape and sexual assault cases waiting to reach court, ministers are promising dedicated courtrooms, fixed trial dates and more support for victims. In this episode, Liz speaks to senior barrister Mary Prior KC about whether the proposals can make a meaningful difference. Mary explains why delays are so damaging for both victims and those accused, the practical problems facing courts across England and Wales, and why she believes much more investment is needed to fix a system struggling under years of pressure. Subscribe via https://plus.thecrimedesk.com Follow us on TikTok @DailyMailCrime Email us [email protected] WhatsApp us +447796657512 (start your message with ‘Trial’)   Presenter: Liz Hull Guest: Mary Prior KC Editor: Chelsey Ranore Creative Director: Caroline Cheetham Assistant Producer: Harriet Muckle Production Manager: Vittoria Cecchini   A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular. The Trial series uses actors and some voices generated by AI. Their words are taken as verbatim from the official court transcript. Click here to sign up to The Crime Desk's weekly newsletter. It's free and packed with exclusive interviews, expert insight, and gripping deep dive investigations from across the world. A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

When 36-year-old Clare Wood was brutally murdered in 2009 by an ex-partner with a hidden history of violent domestic abuse, her father, Michael Brown, made it his mission to ensure no other family suffered the same tragedy. But how did one father’s grief spark a monumental shift in British policing? In this episode of Crimes That Changed the Law, Liz speaks to journalist Michelle Livesey, who worked side by side with Michael during his relentless four-year campaign to establish "Clare’s Law"—giving individuals the right to ask police about a partner's past. Liz is also joined by Clare’s daughter, Maddy, who was just a child when her mother was killed and is now continuing the work her grandfather started, keeping her mother's legacy alive and ensuring these lifesaving protections reach every woman who needs them. Subscribe via https://plus.thecrimedesk.com/simon-levy Follow us on TikTok @DailyMailCrime Email us [email protected] WhatsApp us +447796657512 (start your message with ‘Trial’) Presenter: Liz Hull Guest: Fiona Duffy Editor: Chelsey Ranore Creative Director: Caroline Cheetham Assistant Producer: Harriet Muckle Production Manager: Vittoria Cecchini A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular. Click here to sign up to The Crime Desk's weekly newsletter. It's free and packed with exclusive interviews, expert insight, and gripping deep dive investigations from across the world. A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this final episode of our coverage of the Thirlwall Inquiry, Caroline and Liz examine Lucy Letby's behaviour - behaviour which Lady Justice Thirlwall says demonstrated she was cold, callous, untruthful and calculating. Evidence revealed to the inquiry showed she appeared to be excited by the death of the babies, she often intruded on the grief of parents, she found babies who were well to be "boring" and she repeatedly disobeyed orders to stay away from the intensive care unit. It's behaviour experts now say it not "beige" or "vanilla" but is much more typical of a serial killer. This episode is available exclusively to Crime Desk subscribers. To find out more, visit https://plus.thecrimedesk.com/ Follow us on TikTok @DailyMailCrime Follow us on instagram @TheTrialPod Subscribe to our YouTube channel @TheCrimeDesk Click here to sign up to The Crime Desk's weekly newsletter. It's free and packed with exclusive interviews, expert insight, and gripping deep dive investigations from across the world. Email us [email protected] WhatsApp us +447796657512 (start your message with ‘Trial’) Presenter: Caroline Cheetham and Liz Hull Creative Director: Caroline Cheetham Producer: Chelsey Ranore Assistant Producer: Harriet Muckle Production Manager: Vittoria Cecchini A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular.

Dysfunctional, dishonest and defensive. They abdicated responsibilities, made decisions which were “impossible to defend” and expert reports were "doctored". Those were just some of the scathing comments Lady Justice Thirlwall made about the managers at the Countess of Chester Hospital. Today, in the third episode reflecting on the Thirlwall Report, Caroline and Liz analyse the failures of Ian Harvey, Tony Chambers and Alison Kelly. We also chat to Darren Thorne, the author of Hidden in Plain Sight, an internal investigation into the Countess of Chester Hospital which took place after Lucy Letby was removed from the unit. He interviewed some of the senior managers and investigated how the hospital was governed. His findings then about chronic dysfunction mirror much of what Lady Justice Thirlwall has now outlined.    This episode is available exclusively to Crime Desk subscribers. To find out more, visit https://plus.thecrimedesk.com/ Follow us on TikTok @DailyMailCrime Follow us on instagram @TheTrialPod Subscribe to our YouTube channel @TheCrimeDesk Click here to sign up to The Crime Desk's weekly newsletter. It's free and packed with exclusive interviews, expert insight, and gripping deep dive investigations from across the world. Email us [email protected] WhatsApp us +447796657512 (start your message with ‘Trial’) Presenter: Caroline Cheetham and Liz Hull Creative Director: Caroline Cheetham Producer: Chelsey Ranore Assistant Producer: Harriet Muckle Production Manager: Vittoria Cecchini A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular.

We now know babies should not have died and been harmed at the Countess of Chester Hospital. They should not have been left at the mercy of Lucy Letby because more should have been done sooner to stop her. But there were too many failings. Too many people with the wrong priorities, and staggeringly not enough concern from senior leaders about the deaths of babies. Two of those babies were Baby O and Baby P. They were triplets murdered by Lucy Letby in June 2015 when they were a few days old. Their surviving brother is now 10 years old. In this episode Caroline and Liz outline what happened to them and we have the reaction from their families to what we now know after Lady Justice Thirlwall's scathing report. This episode is available exclusively to Crime Desk subscribers. To find out more, visit https://plus.thecrimedesk.com/ Follow us on TikTok @DailyMailCrime Follow us on instagram @TheTrialPod Subscribe to our YouTube channel @TheCrimeDesk Click here to sign up to The Crime Desk's weekly newsletter. It's free and packed with exclusive interviews, expert insight, and gripping deep dive investigations from across the world. Email us [email protected] WhatsApp us +447796657512 (start your message with ‘Trial’) Presenter: Caroline Cheetham and Liz Hull Creative Director: Caroline Cheetham Producer: Chelsey Ranore Assistant Producer: Harriet Muckle Production Manager: Vittoria Cecchini A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular.

We now know for certain, babies should not have died at the Countess of Chester Hospital. In her scathing report into the failings which allowed Lucy Letby to harm babies for months, Lady Justice Thirlwall said three babies should not have died and seven more should not have been harmed. In her scathing report she condemned a fundamental lack of understanding of basic safeguarding regulations, a “tribal” approach from nurses, and an “exercise in spin” from senior leaders to delay police being called in to investigate. She also said the parents of the babies were treated reprehensibly. In this episode Caroline and Liz have her key findings and her urgent recommendations. Subscribe via https://plus.thecrimedesk.com Follow us on TikTok @DailyMailCrime Email us [email protected] WhatsApp us +447796657512 (start your message with ‘Trial’)   Presenter: Caroline Cheetham and Liz Hull Editor: Chelsey Ranore Creative Director: Caroline Cheetham Assistant Producer: Harriet Muckle Production Manager: Vittoria Cecchini   A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular. The Trial series uses actors and some voices generated by AI. Their words are taken as verbatim from the official court transcript. Click here to sign up to The Crime Desk's weekly newsletter. It's free and packed with exclusive interviews, expert insight, and gripping deep dive investigations from across the world. A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Could Lucy Letby have been stopped sooner? Could babies have been saved? Was there an orchestrated hospital cover up? Were parents consistently lied to? Did a toxic hospital culture allow a serial killer to remain undetected for months?  Today Lady Justice Thirlwall is likely to answer these questions and more when she publishes her long-awaited report into the failings at the Countess of Chester Hospital. In this bonus episode Caroline and Liz dissect the key moments from the seven month inquiry as they prepare to read her findings. Subscribe via https://plus.thecrimedesk.com Follow us on TikTok @DailyMailCrime Email us [email protected] WhatsApp us +447796657512 (start your message with ‘Trial’)   Presenter: Caroline Cheetham and Liz Hull Editor: Chelsey Ranore Creative Director: Caroline Cheetham Assistant Producer: Harriet Muckle Production Manager: Vittoria Cecchini   A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular. The Trial series uses actors and some voices generated by AI. Their words are taken as verbatim from the official court transcript. Click here to sign up to The Crime Desk's weekly newsletter. It's free and packed with exclusive interviews, expert insight, and gripping deep dive investigations from across the world. A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The Trial + is back with another episode of ‘Crimes that Changed the Law’. Liz speaks to extraordinary people whose lives have been changed forever by devastating loss, inspiring them to make a change. Through their tireless campaigning, they’ve helped persuade the Government to introduce new laws. It might be too late to help their case, but they’re fighting to make a difference to ensure others don’t suffer in the same way. In this episode, Liz is joined by Fiona Duffy, a fellow journalist who has worked closely alongside the family of Helen McCourt for many years. In 1988, Helen was a 22 year old woman on her way home from work when she was grabbed and murdered just a few yards from her front door. Helen’s killer, Ian Simms, never revealed where he disposed of her body. He took it to his grave. Marie McCourt, Helen’s mother, campaigned tirelessly to prevent murderers from being granted parole if they refuse to disclose the location of a victim’s remains. In 2020, she won the fight and Helen’s Law was given Royal Assent. Subscribe via https://plus.thecrimedesk.com/simon-levy Follow us on TikTok @DailyMailCrime Email us [email protected] WhatsApp us +447796657512 (start your message with ‘Trial’) Presenter: Liz Hull Guest: Fiona Duffy Editor: Chelsey Ranore Creative Director: Caroline Cheetham Assistant Producer: Harriet Muckle Production Manager: Vittoria Cecchini A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular. Click here to sign up to The Crime Desk's weekly newsletter. It's free and packed with exclusive interviews, expert insight, and gripping deep dive investigations from across the world. A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today on the podcast Caroline and Ryan have the extraordinary allegations against a Church of England Priest, who ran what's been called a "cult" service to abuse his female "disciples". Chris Brain admits having sexual relations with worshippers at the infamous Nine O'Clock Service in Sheffield in the 1980s and 1990s, but he's now accused of criminal offences. The allegation is the women he targeted were so vulnerable, isolated and frightened that they did not have the capacity to consent. Also today, Caroline chats to Liz about the imminent report by Lady Justice Thirlwall into the crimes of Lucy Letby. Subscribe via https://plus.thecrimedesk.com Follow us on TikTok @DailyMailCrime Email us [email protected] WhatsApp us +447796657512 (start your message with ‘Trial’)   Presenter: Caroline Cheetham and Ryan Hooper Editor: Chelsey Ranore Creative Director: Caroline Cheetham Assistant Producer: Harriet Muckle Production Manager: Vittoria Cecchini   A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular. The Trial series uses actors and some voices generated by AI. Their words are taken as verbatim from the official court transcript. Click here to sign up to The Crime Desk's weekly newsletter. It's free and packed with exclusive interviews, expert insight, and gripping deep dive investigations from across the world. A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

When Tony Hudgell was just a baby, he suffered horrific abuse at the hands of his birth parents, leaving him with injuries so severe that both his legs had to be amputated. But against the odds, Tony survived — and went on to become a remarkable campaigner for other children. In this episode, Liz speaks to Tony’s adoptive mother, Paula Hudgell, about the fight for justice that followed. Paula explains how she and Tony helped change the law to increase sentences for those convicted of causing or allowing serious harm to children, before successfully campaigning for a new child cruelty register. She shares the extraordinary story of a family determined to turn Tony’s suffering into lasting change — and why their fight is far from over. Subscribe via https://plus.thecrimedesk.com/simon-levy Follow us on TikTok @DailyMailCrime Email us [email protected] WhatsApp us +447796657512 (start your message with ‘Trial’) Presenter: Liz Hull Editor: Chelsey Ranore Creative Director: Caroline Cheetham Assistant Producer: Harriet Muckle Production Manager: Vittoria Cecchini A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular. Click here to sign up to The Crime Desk's weekly newsletter. It's free and packed with exclusive interviews, expert insight, and gripping deep dive investigations from across the world. A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Does the law need to change in order to better protect jurors? That is what the House of Lords is now considering. Long-established laws means members of a jury are not allowed to discuss a case with anyone during a trial. And even after a trial is finished, what they can say about what they have seen and heard is limited. But it's now recognised that the evidence in many cases is traumatising and jurors need more help. But that would mean amending the law and that is what a new inquiry is looking into this week.  In this episode Caroline chats to Doctor Hannah Fawcett about her work on the wellbeing of jurors and what she wants to see the inquiry recommend.  The Trial series uses actors and some voices generated by AI. Their words are taken as verbatim from the official court transcript. Click here to sign up to The Crime Desk's weekly newsletter. It's free and packed with exclusive interviews, expert insight, and gripping deep dive investigations from across the world. A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The Trial + has a brand new mini-series. In ‘Crimes that Changed the Law’ Liz speaks to extraordinary people whose lives have been changed forever by devastating loss, inspiring them to make a change. Through their tireless campaigning, they’ve helped to persuade the Government to introduce new laws. So, while it might be too late to help their case, they’re fighting to make a difference and ensure others won’t suffer in the same way. In the first episode in the series, Liz is joined by the parents of Gigi Meehan. Gigi was nine months old when she tragically died at nursery after being strapped face down on a beanbag for her nap. She was left there for over 90 minutes. Her parents, Katie Wheeler and John Meehan, have spent the last few years fighting for mandatory safe sleep regulations in early years settings, and they won. The new laws will be put into place in just a few days, on 1st September. But for Katie and John, the fight isn’t over. They continue to push for CCTV in all childcare settings in England. Subscribe via https://plus.thecrimedesk.com/simon-levy Follow us on TikTok @DailyMailCrime Email us [email protected] WhatsApp us +447796657512 (start your message with ‘Trial’) Presenter: Liz Hull Editor: Chelsey Ranore Creative Director: Caroline Cheetham Assistant Producer: Harriet Muckle Production Manager: Vittoria Cecchini A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular. The Trial series uses actors and some voices generated by AI. Their words are taken as verbatim from the official court transcript. Click here to sign up to The Crime Desk's weekly newsletter. It's free and packed with exclusive interviews, expert insight, and gripping deep dive investigations from across the world. A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

60-year-old Christopher Phillips kept his mother’s body in a freezer for almost three years, talking to her about her favourite television programmes and holding her hand as if she were still alive. A court heard that he was suffering from a little-known mental health condition called Prolonged Grief Disorder. But he also kept collecting her pension money - and he's now been sent to prison.  In this episode, Liz speaks to Dr Michael Duffy, a psychotherapist and specialist in trauma therapy, about what happens when grief becomes prolonged and overwhelming. They discuss Christopher Phillips’s unusual case, how the condition differs from normal grief and depression, why it can be missed by doctors, and whether a better understanding of Prolonged Grief Disorder could have prevented his grief from spiralling into crime. Subscribe via https://plus.thecrimedesk.com Follow us on TikTok @DailyMailCrime Email us [email protected] WhatsApp us +447796657512 (start your message with ‘Trial’)   Presenter: Liz Hull Guest: Dr Michael Duffy Editor: Chelsey Ranore Creative Director: Caroline Cheetham Assistant Producer: Harriet Muckle Production Manager: Vittoria Cecchini   A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular. The Trial series uses actors and some voices generated by AI. Their words are taken as verbatim from the official court transcript. Click here to sign up to The Crime Desk's weekly newsletter. It's free and packed with exclusive interviews, expert insight, and gripping deep dive investigations from across the world. A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.