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Thriving With ADHD

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Rating
★★★★★
4.5
from
6 reviews
This podcast has
45 episodes
Language
English
Explicit
No
Date created
2022/11/15
Latest episode
2026/10/09
Average duration
35 min.
Release period
35 days

Description

Practical, every day tactics to live better whether you have ADHD or not. People with ADHD and other behavioral health conditions often face stigma, prejudices, and discrimination. Join Animo Sano Psychiatry team, specialists in adult ADHD, as we discuss it with our team members and other healthcare professionals. This is an opportunity to learn about ADHD and other behavioral health conditions, how they present, how they impact individuals and their families, and strategies to manage them. If you are an adult with ADHD, or you have a loved one who is living with ADHD, this podcast is for you. This podcast is brought to you by Animo Sano Psychiatry. We provide accessible, high-quality mental health care. If you’re looking for support or have questions about our services, you can find us online or reach out to us directly at animosanopsychiatry.com. We’re here to help.

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Check latest episodes from Thriving With ADHD podcast


ADHD & Money Management
2026/10/09
Send us Fan Mail ADHD can affect our relationship with money in ways we don't always recognise, from impulsive spending and time blindness to financial stress and the feast-or-famine cycle. And earning more doesn't necessarily make money management easier. In this episode of Thriving with ADHD, host Nada Pupovac welcomes Maren Londahl-Smidt, LCSW, therapist, international speaker, and Profit for Keeps® Certified Coach, to explore why managing money can be particularly challenging for people with ADHD and how to make it more manageable. Discover practical strategies for building ADHD-friendly financial habits, recognising your strengths, and approaching your finances with less shame and more curiosity. Connect with Maren: InstagramFacebookFacebook – Profit for Keeps for TherapistsLinkedInIdea Chaser on SubstackThank you for listening to Thriving with ADHD. This show is produced by Animo Sano Psychiatry. For more information about our clinic, please visit animosanopsychiatry.com.  Animo Sano Psychiatry is constantly looking for the talent in behavioral health. If you are a psychiatrist, nurse practitioner, physician assistant, or mental health therapist, we'd love to hear from you. Visit our Careers pages to learn more about the available positions. https://animosanopsychiatry.com/careers/
ADHD & Motherhood
2026/09/09
Send us Fan Mail Motherhood comes with an enormous mental load but what happens when ADHD is part of the picture? In this episode of Thriving with ADHD, Nada talks with Maddison Henley, PA-C, CAQ-PSY, about why motherhood can make previously manageable ADHD symptoms feel much harder to cope with. They explore why some women only recognize their ADHD after becoming mothers, the role of sleep deprivation, sensory overload and changing routines, and how to distinguish ADHD from the everyday overwhelm of parenting. Maddison also discusses how pregnancy, postpartum changes and hormonal shifts can affect ADHD symptoms, the impact of undiagnosed ADHD on self-esteem and relationships, and the treatment and practical strategies that can make everyday life more manageable. Most importantly, this episode offers an important reminder for mothers with ADHD: struggling with executive functioning is not a measure of how much you love your children or how good of a mom you are. If life feels harder than it seems to for everyone else, you don't have to simply try harder or criticize yourself more. Understanding what's behind those challenges can be the first step toward getting the right support. Thank you for listening to Thriving with ADHD. This show is produced by Animo Sano Psychiatry. For more information about our clinic, please visit animosanopsychiatry.com.  Animo Sano Psychiatry is constantly looking for the talent in behavioral health. If you are a psychiatrist, nurse practitioner, physician assistant, or mental health therapist, we'd love to hear from you. Visit our Careers pages to learn more about the available positions. https://animosanopsychiatry.com/careers/
Why Do I Keep Starting Over? ADHD & Reset Cycle
2026/07/09
Send us Fan Mail Why do I keep starting over? If you've ever felt like you're constantly rebuilding routines, restarting healthy habits, or struggling to stay consistent, you're not alone. In this episode of Thriving with ADHD, host Nada Pupovac is joined by Breanna Perry, LMSW, therapist at Animo Sano Psychiatry, to explore the ADHD reset cycle—why it happens, how shame and perfectionism keep us stuck, and how to create routines that work with your ADHD brain instead of against it. Together, they discuss practical strategies for building sustainable habits, finding intrinsic motivation, and replacing self-criticism with self-compassion. In this episode, you'll learn: Why people with ADHD often feel like they're constantly starting overHow to tell whether a routine needs adjusting or you've simply fallen out of itWhy guilt and shame can make it harder to get back on trackThe difference between perfection and progressHow to create ADHD-friendly routines that are easier to maintainSimple ways to make everyday tasks more motivating and rewardingWhether you've restarted your exercise routine, planner, self-care habits, or household systems dozens of times, this episode offers encouragement and practical tools to help you move forward—one small step at a time. Thank you for listening to Thriving with ADHD. This show is produced by Animo Sano Psychiatry. For more information about our clinic, please visit animosanopsychiatry.com.  Animo Sano Psychiatry is constantly looking for the talent in behavioral health. If you are a psychiatrist, nurse practitioner, physician assistant, or mental health therapist, we'd love to hear from you. Visit our Careers pages to learn more about the available positions. https://animosanopsychiatry.com/careers/
ADHD, Imposter Syndrome & Hidden Cognitive Strain
2026/06/09
Send us Fan Mail What happens when success on the outside hides a very different reality on the inside? In this powerful episode of Thriving with ADHD, host Nada Pupovac speaks with Jason McDaid, fire engineer, speaker, and founder of The 78% Club. Jason shares his deeply personal journey of living with undiagnosed ADHD, battling imposter syndrome, and carrying what he calls Hidden Cognitive Strain—the invisible mental and emotional effort required to keep performing while quietly struggling beneath the surface. Together, they explore the connection between ADHD and self-doubt, the impact of late diagnosis, perfectionism, professional identity, and the importance of reaching out for support. This conversation is honest, vulnerable, and ultimately hopeful for anyone who has ever felt like they were secretly failing despite appearing successful. ⚠️ Content Note: This episode contains discussion of depression, burnout, suicidal ideation, and mental health struggles. Listener discretion is advised. Learn more about Jason and The 78% Club at 78percentclub.com. Thank you for listening to Thriving with ADHD. This show is produced by Animo Sano Psychiatry. For more information about our clinic, please visit animosanopsychiatry.com.  Animo Sano Psychiatry is constantly looking for the talent in behavioral health. If you are a psychiatrist, nurse practitioner, physician assistant, or mental health therapist, we'd love to hear from you. Visit our Careers pages to learn more about the available positions. https://animosanopsychiatry.com/careers/
ADHD & Anxiety
2026/05/10
Send us Fan Mail Many adults struggle to understand whether their symptoms point to ADHD, anxiety, or a combination of both. Difficulty focusing, racing thoughts, restlessness, overwhelm, and trouble getting things done can all show up in both conditions which is why distinguishing between them is not always straightforward. In this episode of Thriving with ADHD, Nada sits down with Carolyn 'Callie' Kundert, PA-C at Animo Sano Psychiatry to unpack the complex relationship between ADHD and anxiety. Together, they explore why anxiety is often diagnosed first, how ADHD can sometimes be overlooked or masked, and how clinicians work to tell the difference between the two conditions. Callie also explains:  Common symptoms shared by ADHD and anxiety  Why untreated ADHD can contribute to anxiety over time  How ADHD and anxiety can interact and reinforce each other  What clinicians look for during assessment  Differences in treatment approaches for ADHD, anxiety, or both conditions together  Why getting evaluated by a trained professional matters This episode offers practical insight, validation, and hope for anyone trying to better understand their mental health and the way their brain works. Whether you’ve been diagnosed, are exploring your symptoms, or simply want to learn more, this conversation helps clarify one of the most common areas of confusion in adult mental health. For more information about Animo Sano Psychiatry, visit our website. Thank you for listening to Thriving with ADHD. This show is produced by Animo Sano Psychiatry. For more information about our clinic, please visit animosanopsychiatry.com.  Animo Sano Psychiatry is constantly looking for the talent in behavioral health. If you are a psychiatrist, nurse practitioner, physician assistant, or mental health therapist, we'd love to hear from you. Visit our Careers pages to learn more about the available positions. https://animosanopsychiatry.com/careers/
Is it ADHD or just life?
2026/04/09
Send us Fan Mail In today’s fast-paced world, it’s easy to feel overwhelmed, distracted, or burned out. But how do you know when it might be ADHD rather than just everyday life? In this episode of Thriving with ADHD, host Nada Pupovac is joined by Dr. Jennifer Dall, a Grief-Informed Neurodivergence Specialist and founder of ADHD Holistically. Together, they explore how to distinguish between normal life stress and ADHD, and why so many people — especially women — go years without recognizing the signs. Dr. Jennifer shares both her professional expertise and personal experience of being diagnosed with ADHD in her 50s, offering a compassionate and practical perspective on understanding your brain, recognizing patterns, and managing daily life with more ease. You’ll learn:  How to tell the difference between ADHD and everyday overwhelm  Common behaviors that are often misunderstood or mislabelled  Why patterns and consistency matter  Practical tools and mindset shifts to reduce overwhelm  What to do if you think you might have ADHD This episode is for anyone who has ever wondered: Is it ADHD… or is it just life? Dr. Jennifer Dall's website and social media links: Website: https://adhdholistically.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/adhd.holisticallyFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/people/ADHDHolistically/100077667853992/Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifer-dall-ed-d-226857317/Thank you for listening to Thriving with ADHD. This show is produced by Animo Sano Psychiatry. For more information about our clinic, please visit animosanopsychiatry.com.  Animo Sano Psychiatry is constantly looking for the talent in behavioral health. If you are a psychiatrist, nurse practitioner, physician assistant, or mental health therapist, we'd love to hear from you. Visit our Careers pages to learn more about the available positions. https://animosanopsychiatry.com/careers/
ADHD in High Achievers
2026/03/09
Send us Fan Mail When most people think about ADHD, they imagine missed deadlines, disorganization, or academic struggles. But many adults with ADHD are highly accomplished - building businesses, leading teams, and performing at high levels while quietly struggling behind the scenes. In this episode of Thriving With ADHD, host Nada Pupovac is joined by Maren Londahl-Smidt, LCSW, a therapist and coach who works with entrepreneurs, professionals, and high-performing adults navigating ADHD. Together they explore the “successful but struggling” paradox - why many high achievers with ADHD go undiagnosed for years and how masking, perfectionism, and hyperfocus can both support and strain performance. Maren shares insights from her clinical work and lived experience with ADHD, along with practical strategies to help high achievers move from hustle and burnout toward sustainable success. In this episode, we discuss: Why high achievers often receive ADHD diagnoses later in lifeThe hidden emotional cost of masking ADHD symptomsHyperfocus: when it’s a superpower and when it leads to burnoutADHD, perfectionism, and imposter syndromeCoping patterns like overwork, people-pleasing, and adrenaline dependenceHow to build sustainable routines and protect mental healthPractical tools for executive function and productivityIf you’re a high performer who feels like you’re constantly working twice as hard to keep everything together, this episode will resonate. Thank you for listening to Thriving with ADHD. This show is produced by Animo Sano Psychiatry. For more information about our clinic, please visit animosanopsychiatry.com.  Animo Sano Psychiatry is constantly looking for the talent in behavioral health. If you are a psychiatrist, nurse practitioner, physician assistant, or mental health therapist, we'd love to hear from you. Visit our Careers pages to learn more about the available positions. https://animosanopsychiatry.com/careers/
ADHD - Back to basics with Whitney Kost, PA-C
2026/02/09
Send us Fan Mail In this February episode of Thriving With ADHD, we’re going back to basics - unpacking what ADHD really is, how it’s diagnosed, what’s happening in the ADHD brain, and what actually helps. Joining Nada is Whitney Kost, PA-C, physician assistant at Animo Sano Psychiatry, who brings clinical insight and practical experience from working closely with adults navigating ADHD and other mental health challenges. Together, they explore: • What ADHD diagnostic criteria actually involve • The difference between ADD and ADHD • Types of ADHD and how they show up in daily life • Symptom overlap with anxiety, depression, and mood disorders • Common everyday struggles adults report • What’s happening neurologically in the ADHD brain • Treatment options - medication, therapy, coaching, and lifestyle supports • Persistent myths and misconceptions about ADHD Whether you’re newly diagnosed, supporting someone with ADHD, or simply looking for a clearer understanding, this episode offers grounded, reassuring education without overwhelm. Thriving With ADHD is brought to you by Animo Sano Psychiatry, a behavioral health practice with a specialist ADHD clinic based in North Carolina. Thank you for listening to Thriving with ADHD. This show is produced by Animo Sano Psychiatry. For more information about our clinic, please visit animosanopsychiatry.com.  Animo Sano Psychiatry is constantly looking for the talent in behavioral health. If you are a psychiatrist, nurse practitioner, physician assistant, or mental health therapist, we'd love to hear from you. Visit our Careers pages to learn more about the available positions. https://animosanopsychiatry.com/careers/
ADHD in Kids: Medication, Therapy or Both. What’s the right treatment?
2026/01/09
Send us Fan Mail Medication, Therapy, or Both? Understanding ADHD Treatment Options for Kids Breaking down misconceptions and supporting confident, informed decisions When a child is diagnosed with ADHD, one of the first, and often most overwhelming, questions parents face is: What is the right treatment? Medication, psychotherapy, or a combination of both? In this episode of Thriving with ADHD, host Nada Pupovac is joined by Dr. Karen Melendez, Clinical Advisor and Supervising Physician at Animo Sano Child and Adolescent Psychiatric Clinic, to gently and clearly unpack the realities of ADHD treatment for children. Together, they explore: How stimulant medication actually works in the ADHD brainCommon fears around medication, including addiction, growth, and side effectsWhen psychotherapy alone may not be enoughWhat a balanced, multimodal treatment approach looks like in real lifeHow structure, school support, sleep, nutrition, and family dynamics all play a roleWhy untreated ADHD can carry greater long-term risks than many parents realizeDr. Melendez shares practical examples, clinical insights, and compassionate guidance to help parents move from fear and confusion to clarity and confidence. Whether you’re just beginning your ADHD journey with your child or looking to reassess your current approach, this episode offers reassurance, evidence-based information, and a reminder that you don’t have to navigate this alone. Thank you for listening to Thriving with ADHD. This show is produced by Animo Sano Psychiatry. For more information about our clinic, please visit animosanopsychiatry.com.  Animo Sano Psychiatry is constantly looking for the talent in behavioral health. If you are a psychiatrist, nurse practitioner, physician assistant, or mental health therapist, we'd love to hear from you. Visit our Careers pages to learn more about the available positions. https://animosanopsychiatry.com/careers/
Managing Holiday Stress with ADHD
2025/12/10
Send us Fan Mail Host: Nada Pupovac | Guest: Dr. Ronald Lee, MD (Luminous Vitality Behavioral Health) The holidays can feel like a perfect storm for adults with ADHD. Routines get disrupted, sensory and social demands ramp up, and executive function takes a hit. In this episode of Thriving with ADHD, Nada Pupovac sits down with board-certified psychiatrist Dr. Ronald Lee to unpack why the season is especially tricky and, more importantly, what you can do about it. Dr. Lee explains how disrupted sleep, cluttered schedules, travel, family dynamics, and sensory overload amplify ADHD symptoms and emotional reactivity. Then he offers clear, practical tools you can use right away: visual calendars and chunked task lists, scheduled “anchor” routines (sleep, meds, movement), short breaks and recharge rituals, simple scripts for setting boundaries, travel tips for medication, and the power of lowering perfectionism to make room for joy. If the holidays leave you tired, scattered, or people-pleasing, this episode brings compassionate, actionable advice so you can protect your energy, stay present, and actually enjoy meaningful moments. Thank you for listening to Thriving with ADHD. This show is produced by Animo Sano Psychiatry. For more information about our clinic, please visit animosanopsychiatry.com.  Animo Sano Psychiatry is constantly looking for the talent in behavioral health. If you are a psychiatrist, nurse practitioner, physician assistant, or mental health therapist, we'd love to hear from you. Visit our Careers pages to learn more about the available positions. https://animosanopsychiatry.com/careers/
ADHD & Creativity: Embracing the Flow with Brock Carter
2025/11/10
Send us Fan Mail In this inspiring episode of Thriving with ADHD, host Nada Pupovac sits down with Brock Carter, Physician Assistant at Animo Sano Psychiatry and office lead for the Tennessee branch, who’s not only a mental health clinician but also a passionate musician and producer. Together, they explore the fascinating link between ADHD and creativity how divergent thinking, impulsivity, and curiosity can both fuel and challenge creative expression. Brock shares his perspective on embracing ADHD as a different operating system rather than a deficit, and how creativity can serve as a form of self-regulation, therapy, and empowerment. From navigating creative highs and lows to learning to “strike while the iron is hot,” this episode is filled with compassion, insight, and encouragement for anyone who’s ever felt frustrated by their creative rhythm. Whether you’re an artist, entrepreneur, or simply someone with a curious mind, you’ll walk away reminded that creativity doesn’t have an expiration date, and that your mind works in seasons, not on a stopwatch. 🎧 Tune in to learn: How ADHD traits like curiosity and impulsivity can spark creativityThe challenges of follow-through and structure in creative workWhy creativity can be therapeutic for ADHD mindsPractical ways to honor your natural creative rhythmHow clinicians can encourage creative outlets in ADHD treatmentThank you for listening to Thriving with ADHD. This show is produced by Animo Sano Psychiatry. For more information about our clinic, please visit animosanopsychiatry.com.  Animo Sano Psychiatry is constantly looking for the talent in behavioral health. If you are a psychiatrist, nurse practitioner, physician assistant, or mental health therapist, we'd love to hear from you. Visit our Careers pages to learn more about the available positions. https://animosanopsychiatry.com/careers/
From Missed to Seen: Changing the Story for Girls With ADHD
2025/10/10
Send us Fan Mail Welcome to Thriving with ADHD, dear ADHD community! 🌟 In this powerful episode, we shine a light on a topic that doesn’t get nearly enough attention — girls with ADHD. Many girls are still overlooked or misdiagnosed, their symptoms dismissed as daydreaming, anxiety, or perfectionism. Today, we explore why this happens and how parents, teachers, and clinicians can recognize and support these girls earlier. Our guest, Cynthia Hammer, is the Executive Director of the Inattentive ADHD Coalition and founder of FINDtheADHDgirls.org After receiving her own ADHD diagnosis later in life, Cynthia has dedicated her career to changing the story for girls with inattentive ADHD. Through her advocacy, writing, and public speaking, she empowers families and professionals to see the signs sooner—so that girls don’t have to wait decades for understanding and support. In this conversation, we discuss: Why girls with ADHD are often missed or misunderstoodThe subtle signs parents and teachers should watch forPractical steps to take if you suspect a girl may have ADHDHow Cynthia’s new resource, FINDtheADHDgirls.org, helps educators, clinicians, and families take actionThe importance of early diagnosis in shaping self-esteem and long-term well-beingCynthia also shares insights from her new book, Letters to My Younger Self, written by 22 women diagnosed later in life—a heartfelt gift to the ADHD community this Awareness Month. This inspiring collection belongs in the hands of every educator, clinician, and parent of a young girl who might be wondering if ADHD could be part of her story. 🎧 Tune in to learn how we can all play a part in helping girls with ADHD be seen, supported, and set up to thrive. Thank you for listening to Thriving with ADHD. This show is produced by Animo Sano Psychiatry. For more information about our clinic, please visit animosanopsychiatry.com.  Animo Sano Psychiatry is constantly looking for the talent in behavioral health. If you are a psychiatrist, nurse practitioner, physician assistant, or mental health therapist, we'd love to hear from you. Visit our Careers pages to learn more about the available positions. https://animosanopsychiatry.com/careers/
The Rise in ADHD Diagnoses & Access to Care: A Conversation with Dr. Mina Boazak
2025/09/09
Send us Fan Mail In this episode of Thriving with ADHD, host Nada Pupovac sits down with Dr. Mina Boazak, founder and medical director of Animo Sano Psychiatry, to unpack some of the biggest conversations happening in the ADHD community today. Together, they explore: The sharp rise in ADHD diagnoses among adults and what’s driving itCommon misconceptions about ADHD in adultsHow telehealth is changing access to careThe impact of new prescribing regulations on patients and providersDr. Boazak brings his experience as a psychiatrist and thought leader to shed light on these issues, offering insights that matter to anyone navigating ADHD or supporting those who are. Whether you’re living with ADHD, supporting a loved one, or working in mental health care, this conversation will give you a clearer picture of the challenges—and opportunities—shaping ADHD treatment today. Thank you for listening to Thriving with ADHD. This show is produced by Animo Sano Psychiatry. For more information about our clinic, please visit animosanopsychiatry.com.  Animo Sano Psychiatry is constantly looking for the talent in behavioral health. If you are a psychiatrist, nurse practitioner, physician assistant, or mental health therapist, we'd love to hear from you. Visit our Careers pages to learn more about the available positions. https://animosanopsychiatry.com/careers/
Storytelling for Connection, Clarity, and Coping with ADHD – with Grant Crowell
2025/08/10
Send us Fan Mail In this special storytelling edition of Thriving with ADHD, host Nada Pupovac welcomes back voiceover artist and ADHD advocate Grant Crowell for a refreshing, reflective, and at times hilarious conversation about the power of storytelling as a practical tool for thriving with ADHD. Instead of a classic Q&A format, Grant shares personal stories from high school, challenging workplaces, career transitions, and networking events — all highlighting how creative communication, self-awareness, and humor can be game-changing strategies for adults with ADHD. 💡 What you’ll hear in this episode: How a high school runner with undiagnosed ADHD developed a memory strategy using anagramsWhat it’s like working in an environment that’s not ADHD-friendly—and what to do about itLessons from live radio and voiceover work on communication, failure, and growthA creative networking tip called the “Face Tag” that blends cartooning and connectionHow storytelling activates memory, builds empathy, and creates opportunities for deeper understandingWhether you’re newly diagnosed or years into your ADHD journey, this episode offers warmth, insight, and encouragement to explore the stories that shape your life—and maybe even share them with others. 🔗 Connect with Grant Crowell: LinkedIn: Grant CrowellBook: Grand Chasms: Creative Twisted Words for Cool People on AmazonThank you for listening to Thriving with ADHD. This show is produced by Animo Sano Psychiatry. For more information about our clinic, please visit animosanopsychiatry.com.  Animo Sano Psychiatry is constantly looking for the talent in behavioral health. If you are a psychiatrist, nurse practitioner, physician assistant, or mental health therapist, we'd love to hear from you. Visit our Careers pages to learn more about the available positions. https://animosanopsychiatry.com/careers/
ADHD & Friendships
2025/06/09
Send us Fan Mail Welcome to Thriving with ADHD, the podcast where we share practical, everyday tips to help adults with ADHD live well—brought to you by Animo Sano Psychiatry, North Carolina’s leading behavioral health and ADHD clinic. Hosted by Nada Pupovac. In this episode, Nada is joined by Lauren Easley, Licensed Clinical Social Worker at Animo Sano Psychiatry, for an honest and inspiring conversation about ADHD and friendships. Lauren blends compassion, expertise, and personal insight to explore how ADHD can both enhance and complicate social connections—for kids and adults alike. Listen in as they discuss: The unique strengths people with ADHD bring to friendships (curiosity, engagement, and more)Common challenges, from time management to feeling overwhelmed, and why consistency can be hardThe critical role friendship plays in mental health—especially for those with ADHD, who are at higher risk for depression and anxietyPractical tips and real-life strategies for making and maintaining friendships, including routines, setting reminders, and communicating ADHD-related behaviors with honesty and compassionPersonal success stories that show how small changes can lead to lasting relationshipsWhether you’re looking to deepen existing connections or build new ones, this episode offers real-world advice and uplifting encouragement for anyone navigating friendship with ADHD. As Nada and Lauren remind us: those with ADHD have so much to offer—and everyone benefits when we build inclusive, understanding communities. For more on Animo Sano Psychiatry, visit animosanopsychiatry.com. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to follow, rate, and share Thriving with ADHD on your favorite podcast app. Thank you for listening to Thriving with ADHD. This show is produced by Animo Sano Psychiatry. For more information about our clinic, please visit animosanopsychiatry.com.  Animo Sano Psychiatry is constantly looking for the talent in behavioral health. If you are a psychiatrist, nurse practitioner, physician assistant, or mental health therapist, we'd love to hear from you. Visit our Careers pages to learn more about the available positions. https://animosanopsychiatry.com/careers/

Podcast reviews

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4.5 out of 5
6 reviews
★★☆☆☆
Barkke 2026/05/03
Difficult to listen to for ADHD brains
I would have enjoyed this show but the host’s constant back-channeling—making continuous verbal and non-verbal noises ("uh-huh," "mmm," "exactly") wh...
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