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Running in the (19)70s Episode 4.36 Malcolm East - From Twickenham to Allegheny Glory In this episode of Running in the '70s, host Matthew Kleinosky sits down with Pennsylvania distance running legend Malcolm East. Originally from the UK, Malcolm transitioned from a youth spent playing soccer 90 minutes a day to emerging as a top-tier track and cross-country talent with Twickenham AC. As an 18-year-old, he made waves at Crystal Palace running a 9:00 flat 3,000m steeplechase and clocked an 8:14 3,000m flat—rivaling Ireland’s John Treacy among the fastest junior runners in Europe. Malcolm recounts his path across the Atlantic, beginning with a brief, challenging stint at the University of Arkansas under John McDonnell. Battling homesickness, depression, and a severe stress fracture, Malcolm transferred to Western Pennsylvania's Community College of Allegheny County (CCAC/Allegheny). There, coached on the roads by miler Sam Barr and backed by program architect Neil Cohen, Malcolm thrived alongside a squad of international and East Coast talent. Key topics and memories covered in this conversation include: The CCAC Dynasty & "Run for Fun" Lore: Training 100 miles a week around North Park, dominating the junior college ranks, winning individual national titles in cross-country, the 10,000m, and unexpectedly winning his debut 26.2 at the marathon national championships in Michigan. Tactics and Team Rivalries: Malcolm shares a candid, never-before-told story about dealing with anti-foreigner sentiment from team members by intentionally surging to lap them in the national 10,000m final before sitting back to take the victory. The Pittsburgh Great Race & The 27:57 Record: His dominant three-year winning streak at Pittsburgh’s signature road race, including dropping a mid-race 4:20 mile past Mercy Hospital to break 28 minutes and seal the course record. Allegheny Nike & Elite Road Racing: The birth of the powerhouse Allegheny Nike post-collegiate squad—where Tuesday nights at Oliver High School featured a dozen sub-2:20 marathoners—his signing with Nike via Jeff Hollister in Bermuda, and racing across the globe with mentors like Kevin Ryan. Resilience, Health, and Staying on the Roads: Malcolm opens up about living with a pacemaker, undergoing tricuspid heart valve repair, navigating current cardiology check-ups, and his determination to keep logging run-walk miles. Community and Legacy: His work at Fleet Feet, organizing monthly meetups with former Pittsburgh runners, showing off a one-of-a-kind black-and-gold Allegheny Nike racing singlet, and the retrospective short documentary Unbreakable. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5459WAf_us

Episode 435: Decathlon Battles, Clerical Twists, and Athletics West with Roger George In this episode of Running in the '70s, host Matthew Kleinosky connects in Fresno, California, with collegiate national champion, three-time Division I All-American, and 1976 Olympic decathlon alternate Roger George. From wrestling irrigation pipes on a Central Valley turkey farm to training at the dawn of professional track and field with Nike’s Athletics West, Roger shares an incredible inside look at the golden era of the decathlon. From the Turkey Ranch to the Sawdust Pit: Growing up on a large ranch outside Fresno, Roger built work-hardened strength hauling hay and changing irrigation pipes in freezing alfalfa fields before school. He began pole vaulting with tapered Swedish steel poles into sawdust pits in grammar school, won a high school pentathlon, and drew early inspiration from local legend Bob Mathias. Fresno State & Dutch Warmerdam: Roger stepped into a proven decathlon environment at Fresno State under legendary pole vaulter and coach Dutch Warmerdam. Building on an unexpected background in the 800 meters, Roger developed a lethal decathlon 1,500 meters that became his tactical weapon to hunt down competitors in the final event. The Clerical Error at the NCAA Championships: Roger recounts his fierce battles against older Swedish international athletes recruited by BYU, including Raimo Pihl. In one national championship, Roger ran a clutch 4:15.5 1,500m to seemingly fall just five points short—only for Track & Field News to uncover a year later that officials used the wrong scoring tables; a rescore revealed an exact tie, won by Roger on the event-by-event tiebreaker. Heartbreak at the 1976 Olympic Trials: Competing in Eugene alongside Bruce Jenner during his world-record performance, Roger placed an agonizingly close fourth behind Fred Samara to take the alternate spot. A year later, Olympic coach Sam Adams revealed that an electronic timing failure during the meet required fallback hand-times for competitors other than Jenner and Roger, creating discrepancies that likely cost Roger a spot in Montreal. Pioneering Professionalism with Athletics West: In 1978, Nike signed Roger as one of its original 30 athletes for Athletics West in Eugene. Roger describes the surreal transition from college poverty to elite athlete care—earning stipends as "quality control testers," utilizing an all-access gear room, working with full-time physiologists, and being coached by legends Tom Tellez, Bill Bowerman, Mac Wilkins, and Al Feuerbach. The 1980 Olympic Boycott & Stream Therapy: When news broke mid-trials that the United States would officially boycott the 1980 Moscow Games, Roger and several top decathletes processed the gut punch by heading into the Oregon wilderness to fish for trout. Life Beyond Track: How the meticulous technical discipline of four Olympic coaches translated into Roger’s post-track life as a record-holding inland striper guide, longtime outdoor columnist for The Fresno Bee, and close friend of legendary Nike designer Tinker Hatfield. "The decathlon doesn't start until the seventh event... For a lot of decathletes, the 1,500 meters was a throwaway event. And for me, I became feared because I could run people down... they knew that I'd go out there and run hard, and I wasn't afraid to suffer." — Roger George "We got to the second day in the morning and it broke: We're gonna boycott. So everything you're doing is nothing... talk about a dead feeling... Those guys all remember more about the Olympic trials than anything: going fishing with me, and we caught a bunch of trout up in this really neat stream." — Roger George Roger's YouTube fishing channel with Catch America:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhHOB55jLTh9nNfozNUmZDyps1FaUZofG&si=eWnM2P1D1Bsom9Sf

Running in the '70s – Episode Summary: John Herdman Host: Matthew Kleinosky Guest: John Herdman (Westmont High School Class of '73, Johnson & Wales College) In this episode, host Matthew Kleinosky reconnects with southwestern Pennsylvania running history by interviewing John Herdman. Growing up in the Johnstown area, John and his identical twin brother, Jim, were standout distance runners for Westmont High School in the early 1970s - athletes Matthew first read about as an aspiring junior high runner. John reflects on his journey from a rocky start in junior high track to dominating cross country courses, competing in collegiate distance running in New England, and how the mental grit forged in the 1970s running boom continues to sustain him in his fight against stage 4 cancer today. Origins & High School at Westmont: John began running in ninth grade, initially struggling in the track two-mile before discovering his love for cross country. Under coach Paul Claycomb, John and his twin brother Jim helped build Westmont’s cross country team from a handful of athletes begging classmates to join (including lifelong runner Kerry Green) into a thriving squad of 25 runners. Summer training at John Hardwick’s Gold Medal Camp—hitting 100-mile weeks and interacting with collegiate standouts like Carl Hatfield and Mike Mosser—transformed the Herdman twins into top-tier frontrunners who regularly broke local course records. At the PIAA State Championships at Penn State, both brothers frequently qualified; during their senior year, Jim finished 9th with his trademark finishing kick, while John placed 28th after battling a side stitch. Collegiate Running at Johnson & Wales: After Hurricane Agnes disrupted their initial recruitment plans in the South, the brothers secured scholarships to Johnson & Wales College in Providence, Rhode Island. John describes the shock of transitioning to New England's year-round running culture, tackling brutal 6:00 AM 6-mile morning runs followed by grueling 15-to-20-mile afternoon sessions or speed work at Brown University. John earned All-New England honors twice in cross country, competed in the National Junior College Marathon Championships, and ran the Boston Marathon twice. Along the way, he shared workouts and moments with legends like Bill Rodgers, Bob Hodge, and John A. Kelley. Life After College & Family: Returning to Johnstown after college, John worked in office administration for the coal mining industry for 24 years, followed by construction work in Washington, D.C., and a career in the electrical trade before retiring. While raising his two sons, John kept his running accolades and trophies hidden so they wouldn't feel pressured to live up to his past accomplishments. Both sons eventually became accomplished runners at Blairsville High School under coach Dan "Jungle" Cunkleman. Perspective, Resilience, and Health: John candidly discusses being diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer just one week after retiring, having undergone surgery to remove a lung along with ongoing chemotherapy. He shares how distance running taught him focus, humility, and patience, comparing his cancer fight to preparing for a marathon: "It's not a sprint... it's a marathon," and drawing inspiration from the endurance and camaraderie he learned in the sport. The conversation closes with warm memories of regional running figures, upcoming reunions with IUP and local runners like Kerry Green and Dan Cunkleman, and the lasting bond shared by athletes of the 1970s running era.

Episode 433: When Running Was Young with Jack D. Welch In this episode of Running in the '70s, host Matthew Kleinosky sits down with Jack D. Welch—author of When Running Was Young and So Were We, co-founder of Running Magazine, former senior road racing editor for Track & Field News, and self-proclaimed "world's slowest professional runner". From 100-mile training weeks and grassroots newsletters to media trucks and the early days inside Nike corporate headquarters, Jack delivers an irreverent, poetic, and unfiltered inside view of the first American running boom. Origins & The 100-Mile T-Shirt: How a former basketball player in Danbury, Connecticut, took to circling a gym floor for 125 laps on Groundhog's Day 1972 to earn a promotional T-shirt, discovering road running just months before Frank Shorter’s Munich gold. The Birth and Evolution of Running Magazine: Starting on a mimeograph machine with Dr. E.C. "Ned" Frederick, Welch sought to create the "Esquire of running magazines" by blending sport, philosophy, and poetry. He details the transition to an IBM Selectric typewriter, early ad mockups from Wieden & Kennedy, and the subsequent buyout by Nike. Inside Early Nike & Athletics West: Welch shares behind-the-scenes memories of Nike’s raw, pre-IPO days: debating whether a shoe could ever sell for an astronomical $50 to house Frank Rudy's air sole, working out of a makeshift broom closet at Athletics West alongside Bill Bowerman, and the cultural clash between freewheeling track purists and buttoned-up corporate management. Running 100-Mile Weeks as a Sub-Elite: Living out of a sleeping bag on a mountaineering store floor, juggling 24 credit hours of college classes, and pounding out double days to run a 2:46 marathon while training alongside legends like Joan Benoit Samuelson, Bill Rodgers, and Mary Decker. The Ghost of Pre & Alternate Histories: Arriving in Eugene just months after Steve Prefontaine's fatal car crash, Welch reflects on the raw grief that permeated Hayward Field, his friendship with Pre’s parents, and his famous speculative "what-if" about how Pre might have shaped the boom and stood up to both Phil Knight and race promoters. The 1980 Boycott, Doping, and "Where's Don's Bronze?": The profound sense of grief and futility surrounding the 1980 Moscow Olympic boycott, coupled with Welch’s persistent crusade for justice regarding state-sponsored East German doping and Waldemar Cierpinski's contested marathon medals. The Evolution of the Running Tribe: Contrasting the spartan, mileage-driven camaraderie of the 1970s running subculture with modern internet-driven running culture, while exploring the lifelong psychological identity of being a runner long after the legs give way to power walking and pool workouts. "I am the slowest thing you've ever seen, but it just somehow found my core... You don't run 100 miles a week 'cause you're interested in money and sex. You're interested in some self-fulfillment." — Jack Welch "We were all victims... Imagine getting to the Olympics and earning a medal and not getting it... That's who I write for—the people that look at that and go, 'Ouch.'" — Jack Welch https://www.amazon.com/When-Running-Was-Young-Were/dp/B013ILHXIO Book: When Running Was Young and So Were We: Collected Works of a Sportswriter from the Golden Age of American Running by Jack Welch https://www.amazon.com/When-Running-Was-Young-Were/dp/B013ILHXIO Articles & Columns: Read Jack Welch's latest reflections and archival pieces at jackdogwelch.com

In this special reunion episode, members of the historic 1977 Indiana University of Pennsylvania (IUP) Men's cross country team gather to celebrate their upcoming induction into the IUP Sports Hall of Fame. Matthew joins with 5 teammates of the 8 who ran at NAIA and NCAA D2 nationals: Andrew Pheiff, Jacob Hepp, Ken Trilli, Dan Cunkleman, and Richard Wolf ... to reflect on the historic season that brought home the state title and put IUP on the national map. The panel revisits the grit and camaraderie that defined their collegiate careers, from 138-mile summer training weeks and the fierce battle for a top-seven varsity spot to the unique culture of the cross country house. They share vivid memories of navigating brutal championship conditions—including the frigid Chicago Nationals, running road-course alternates in the rain, and turning to blue pantyhose to stay warm on race day. The group also explores their relationships with Coach Ed Fry and Head coach / recruiter Coach Sutton, analyzing how Fry’s coaching philosophy developed overlooked high school runners into All-Americans and national championship contenders. Looking back across the decades, they trace the enduring impact of those years on their lives, from careers in Olympic athletics, officiating, and the 1984 Marathon Trials to the lifelong bond forged through distance running. With the induction weekend approaching, this conversation captures the humor, history, and unmatched depth of the squad that set the championship standard for IUP cross country.

In episode 4.31 of Running in the '70s, host Matthew Kleinosky sits down with veteran runners Bill Scobey, Don McEwan, Vince Engel, Roy Kissin, and Mark Byers to share memories and lore surrounding Northern California’s legendary Dipsea Race. The Panel & Their Histories: The guests recount running the Dipsea across multiple decades starting from the mid-1960s onward. Highlights include Don placing 9th as a 16-year-old running from scratch in 1967, Bill finishing 7th in 1970, Mark first running at age 17 in 1965, Vince returning after a 41-year gap, and Roy earning 11 coveted top-25 black shirts across 23 finishes. Course Profile & Challenges: The group walks through the 7.1-mile trail course from Mill Valley to Stinson Beach over Mount Tamalpais, discussing notorious landmarks like the 672 stairs, Windy Gap, Suicide (and its detour, Rangers Trail), Dynamite, Hogsback, Cardiac Hill, The Swoop, Steep Ravine, and Insult. They highlight the sheer danger of the terrain, poison oak, steep descents, and how course features have evolved from open pastures and dirt paths into stepped and regulated trails to combat erosion. Race Traditions & Handicapping: The runners explain Dipsea's unique age- and gender-based staggered handicap system, the history of legendary handicapper "Birdman," early day-of-race registrations, and the strict tradition that runners may only wear their earned black finisher shirts on race day without committing a faux pas. Iconic Characters & Lore: The conversation covers memorable Dipsea figures, including the "Dipsea Demon" Jack Kirk (who lived off the grid and created "Kirk's Revenge" on Mount Diablo), colorful runner Pax Beal, record-holder Ron Elijah, 8-year-old race winner Mary Etta Boitano, and early ultrarunner Walt Stack (famous for starring in the original Nike "Just Do It" ad). Film and Other Races: Roy shares details about producing and co-starring in the 1986 Bruce Dern running movie On the Edge, recounting the grueling 35-day shoot on Mount Tamalpais. Vince discusses his involvement in the Humboldt documentary The Harriers. The panel closes by reminiscing about other memorable distance events, such as the Trinidad to Clam Beach Run, Italy's Cinque Mulini, and the Lassi Virén Finnish Invitational.

Episode 4.30: Charlie Duggan Charlie Duggan stumbled into distance running as a sophomore at Hartford Public High School, intending to spend only a week with the cross-country team before football practice began. Instead, he outran the experienced varsity runners in his first workout and discovered the sport that would shape his life. Coached by 1952 Olympic sprint champion Lindy Remigino, Duggan became one of the nation’s leading high-school two-milers before attending Springfield College. At Springfield, Duggan became a three-time All-American, won the IC4A cross-country championship, finished second at the NCAA Cross Country Championships and never lost a race on the college’s home course or track. He later trained in Gainesville with Marty Liquori and Barry Brown, learning the importance of recovery and the difference between running hard and training intelligently. Duggan qualified for the U.S. Olympic Trials at 5,000 metres, ran 13:42, defeated Liquori in major races and earned a bronze medal in international competition in Israel. Duggan also recounts his remarkable relationship with Connecticut’s Manchester Road Race. After first running it as a teenager in 1968, he finished second several times before finally winning in 1980—and has continued returning every Thanksgiving despite a hip replacement, knee surgeries and even a ruptured ligament in his foot. He shares memorable stories about racing, coaching successful high-school teams in Florida and New York, and the mentors who influenced him, particularly Remigino, whose willingness to stand in a freezing downpour while timing a solitary workout taught Duggan what genuine coaching looks like.

In the second half of his conversation, Matt Centrowitz Sr. traces his path from elite athlete to influential coach. He describes working with Frank Gagliano and the Reebok Enclave—one of America’s pioneering post-collegiate training groups—before building American University’s running program from a modest cross-country team into a successful Division I track program. Centrowitz also explains how a torn hamstring ended his pursuit of the 5,000-metre world record and shares the remarkable story of returning to a historic four-mile road race a year after finishing near the back of the field, 40 pounds lighter and ready to win. Centrowitz reflects on coaching as an exercise in understanding the person behind the athlete, arguing that confidence, relationships and life circumstances matter as much as workouts. He discusses the origins of Like Father, Like Son, which began as a training manual before his son’s Olympic victory transformed it into a family story, It previews a documentary celebrating the coaches and communities that shaped his life. He also speaks candidly about suffering a stroke shortly after Bill Dellinger’s death, having cancer discovered during his hospitalization and continuing to exercise through chemotherapy. Now in remission, Centrowitz looks ahead to returning to Division I coaching and helping build the program at Presbyterian College in South Carolina.

Episode 4.28: Matt Centrowitz Sr., Part 1 Four-time U.S. 5,000-meter champion Matt Centrowitz Sr. takes us from a tough childhood in New York City to becoming one of America's best distance runners. Matt talks about how track "saved his life," transferring to Power Memorial, training in Central Park and Van Cortlandt Park, and his breakthrough high school summer when he raced Craig Virgin, ran 8:56 for two miles and eventually 4:02 for the mile. Centro tells how being rejected by legendary Villanova coach Jumbo Elliott ultimately led him to Oregon, where he learned from Bill Dellinger and Steve Prefontaine. He explains what he saw in Pre's training that others missed, why his first year at Oregon turned out to be a blessing, and how his experience in the 1976 Olympics convinced him that his future was in the 5,000 meters. We also get inside his American-record 5,000-meter race with Alberto Salazar, his four straight national championships, Oregon's one-point 1977 NCAA cross-country championship, and his reaction to losing the 1980 Moscow Olympics to the U.S. boycott—including a memorable White House story involving Jimmy Carter that came full circle 25 years later. Matt's book, Like Father, Like Son: My Story on Running, Coaching and Parenting, tells the much bigger story—from his childhood and his own running career to coaching and raising two outstanding runners, including his son Matthew Centrowitz, the 2016 Olympic 1500-meter champion. And Matt's story is now coming to the screen in the upcoming Like Father Like Son documentary.Watch the documentary trailer:⁠https://vimeo.com/1197181663/4b3d83eb86⁠

Running in the 70s episode 4.27 Gertrude Peace Gertrude “Betsy” Jackson-Peace started 1975, is a former standout middle-distance runner whose career stretched from Albany, New York (Albany High School Hall of Fame), to Howard University, where she set an 800-meter school record of 2:09.55 in 1982 that stood for an extraordinary 43 years and was selected as "XC/Track Legend". A lifelong runner, coach and mentor, Peace went on to spend decades introducing young athletes to track and field. In this conversation, she looks back on discovering running in the 1970s, competing at Howard during a formative era for women’s track, the training behind her remarkable 800-meter record and going to the 1980 Olympic trials, and a lifetime spent passing her love of the sport to the next generation through many clubs, including Hummingbird Track Club, Potomac Valley Flyers, USA-JA Track Club, Archbishop Carroll HS

Running in the 70s episode 4.26 Brad Kron, start 1964, Brockton High school teammate with Ron Wayne, Mass. state and New England XC team champs (1966), Springfield College, Brockton MA Athletic Hall Of Fame, coaching, 4th place team NE College Championship Springfield College'68 2nd place team College Div. iC4As '68-'70 3x top 20 finisher College Div IC4A's'70 4th place finisher Albany Invitational Ran 709 plus road races 1965-2016 Overall 1st place finisher in races in 5 decades

Running in the 70s Episode 4.25 Bill "Mad Dog" Scobey 1960s, Pierce Junior College (3* AllAmerican), US Army Track team, Humboldt State (Hall of Fame), Fireman Hall of Fame, Natl JC record 4 * 1 mile, USA 50Km road record, Natl college best 2-man 10 mile relay ( with Vince Engel), Avenue of the Giants Marathon record 1972 2:17, 10-man 24-hour relay World Record with Jerry Lindgren, Steve Kelley, Jobski, et al - Scobey splits: Fastest Mile: 4:22.0 (The event's absolute fastest leg). Overall Average: 4:26.3 per mile.

Running in the 70s Episode 4.24 Tom Derderian, Part 2 In part 2, we discuss shoe design, racing and meeting other elite runners, Tom's coaching philosophy and more ... Tom Derderian, 1964, UMass, OLY trial 1972/1976, Co-Founded Sugarloaf Mountain Athletic Club, USATF New England President 4 year term, Author: Boston Marathon: The History Of The World's Premier Running Event, 2 IMDB credits, coach Greater Boston Track Club ... much more https://www.amazon.com/Boston-Marathon-Year-Year-Stories/dp/1510724281/ref=sr_1_4 https://www.amazon.com/Boston-Marathon-Century-Premier-Running/dp/0880114797

Running in the 70s Episode 4.23 Tom Derderian, Part 1 Tom Derderian, 1964, UMass, OLY trial 1972/1976, Co-Founded Sugarloaf Mountain Athletic Club, USATF New England President 4 year term, Author: Boston Marathon: The History Of The World's Premier Running Event, 2 IMDB credits, coach Greater Boston Track Club ... much more https://www.amazon.com/Boston-Marathon-Century-Premier-Running/dp/0880114797

𝐑𝐮𝐧𝐧𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐢𝐧 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝟕𝟎s, episode 4.22 Dr. Hans Koeleman Hans Koeleman, 1974, Dutch National record steeple, Nike History & Heritage storyteller, Founder/Editor Mystical Miles, Clemson XC/Track( 6 * AA), Olympic Steeple semifinalist 1984/1988, Universiade medalist 1985