Advertise on podcast: Animal Behavior Conversations: The Podcast of The ABMA

This episode continues on "The Behaviors of..." series which dives into the people side of the animal care field. This episode, is a live panel recording from the 2025 ABMA Virtual Conference with live submitted questions from conference attendees. The panelists include leaders at all levels of animal care from keepers to curators to executive directors which give a holistic view and advice on what leadership can look like at any level in the animal care field. The panelist are Chris Jenkins, Clint Lusardi, Darren Minier, Julie Grove, Missy Lamar, Sandy Jabas, Shea Eaves, Stephanie Joe, Torianna Green, and Trelle Dandridge. Instead of the traditional "Training Tales", to end the episode the panelist provide their "Leadership Resource List" which can be found at the end of this episode's description. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email ⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠ 4:40 Introductions to the panelists and what does leadership mean to you?  22:45 Approaching management to encourage someone to take on a responsibility so that other coworkers feel motivated, seen, and heard  33:30 As a leader, when growing and supporting a newer leader that struggles with communication and tone, how do you best allow them to practice those skills without damaging relationships  52:20 What are the challenges of leading your peers and how do you overcome those challenges?  59:15 What advice do you have for a leader to hold their team accountable so that they are raising the team up to a higher standard instead of brining the higher achievers down to a lower standard?  1:04:20 What does it look like when a leader creates “a safe environment”?  1:09:25 What advice do you have for those who are leading amongst their peers?  1:26:20 How do you work around the thought of “You’re not my boss” when you are trying to be a leader at any level  1:33:10 For those who do not have the authority or responsibility of changing disciplinary action plans for a larger organization, what are some small changes we can make in our teams in order to model “Just Culture”  1:40:00 “Leadership Resource List”  “Leading Without Authority” by Keith Ferrazi  “It’s Your Ship” by Captain Michael Abrashoff  “Crucial Conversations”  “Just Culture”  “Radical Candor” by Kim Scott

This is a very special episode where we highlight ABMA’s 2025 Premier Sponsor: Pets for Vets with the organization’s founder and executive director Clarissa Black.  Clarissa starts by discussing how the organization was formed, what the organization does, and their very important mission.  She then gives information on how trainers can get involved with the organization and the process for applying for a pet while sharing some incredible and life-changing success stories.  Clarissa finishes the conversation by giving advice and learning into the world of therapy pet training and examples of some of the incredible training that is accomplished.  Stay tuned in for Clarissa’s "Training Tale" of teaching her puppy appropriate social interactions using a stuffed panda bear. If you would like to see a picture of Bear, the dog who inspired Clarissa to develop Pets For Vets, check out ABMA's social media channels! For questions or suggestions about the podcast email ⁠[email protected]⁠.  To contact Clarissa email [email protected] and to learn more about Pets for Vets and how you can get involved visit https://petsforvets.com/ 3:10 Intro to Clarissa Black  6:30 Overview and mission of Pets for Vets  10:20 How to get involved as a trainer  11:30 Success Stories  16:00 The process of choosing the specific pet for each veteran  18:50 How to apply for a pet  20:10 How to start your pet training journey  25:20 Lessons learned from zoological training that apply to pet training  30:35 Difference in training with animals that share our (home) environment  32:34 Nightmare training and other examples of training with therapy pets  38:55 Reciprocal expression and perception of behavior  45:05 Common challenges when training therapy dogs and other pets  51:00 “Training Tales” 

This episode Ryan Cartlidge, Animal Training Academy, discusses how to get “unstuck” in training. Ryan starts the episode by operationalizing what getting “stuck” in training may look like and the process of thinking “How do I get unstuck?”  Ryan breaks down this process into three steps 1. Building a tool kit of knowledge 2. Having the Courage to Act and 3. Having the Systems for Learning in place. Throughout the entire episode Ryan details multiple tactics and learnings that can assist in getting unstuck such as understanding reinforcement systems, videoing your training sessions, utilizing flowcharts, and so much more!   Stay tuned in for Ryan’s very unique "Training Tale" in which he was the learner. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email ⁠[email protected]⁠ and to contact Ryan and to learn more about Animal Training Academy connect with the organization in any way below:  Email >>>  Website >>> www.atamember.com Instagram >>> https://www.instagram.com/animal_training_academy/?hl=en Facebook >>> https://www.facebook.com/animaltrainingacademy/ If interested follow the link to a free month of ATA.  Sign up for 30 free days of ATA membership and then after that time period, you can roll into a full membership. >>> https://atamember.com/thanks-for-subscribing/ 6:20 Introduction to Ryan Cartlidge  12:35 Information about Animal Training Academy  16:00 What does it mean when we feel “stuck” in training  25:10 Starting the process of thinking “How do I get unstuck”? 32:50 Building a tool kit of knowledge and skills 1:00:40 Having the courage to act 1:15:10 Having the systems for learning in place  1:27:45 “Training Tale” 

This episode continues on "The Behaviors of..." series which dives into the people side of the animal care field. This episode, which is a continuation of episode 29, Dave O’Connell, Bearizona, discusses “The Behaviors of a Unified and Supportive Team”.  The biggest takeaway from the entire episode is that one of the most important behaviors of a supportive team is the ability to talk with another.  Through talking with one another we are able to create shared team goals, disagree in a productive and positive manner, give and receive growth minded feedback, and provide effective corrective feedback.  Dave discusses that the behaviors of effective feedback include being timely, being specific, and being kind.  Dave finishes off the learning by talking about the behaviors of creating supportive and growth-minded team culture. Stay tuned in for Dave’s  "Training Tale" about how the Bearizona team continues their learning journey through “Lunch and Learns”. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email ⁠[email protected]⁠ and to contact Dave email [email protected] For more information on the ABMA’s virtual conference visit this link: ⁠https://www.theabma.org/virtual-conference⁠ To submit an abstract for the ABMA 2026 annual conference visit this link: ⁠https://www.theabma.org/abma-annual-conference 4:50 Introduction to Dave O’Connell  13:25 Creating shared goals  20:50 How to disagree well?  25:20 The behaviors of a team with a growth mindset  29:30 Giving and receiving constructive, growth-based feedback  41:20 Giving effective corrective feedback?  47:25 Advice for approaching leadership with feedback and suggestions?  55:15 The behaviors of a team with a unified and supportive culture 1:03:00 “Training Tales”

This episode Justin Garner, Busch Gardens Tampa Bay, provides some great learning on behavior chains and the process of chaining.  Justin starts by breaking down the process of chaining while giving practical application examples.  The discussion then dives into how a behavior chain works and dissects what it means for each behavior in the chain to serve as both a discriminative stimulus and a conditioned reinforcer.  Justin then explains the difference between backward and forward chaining and why it is recommended to utilize backward chaining.  The discussion ends with advice on preventing behavior chain breakdown and an explanation on the difference between shaping and chaining.  Stay tuned in for Justin’s  "Training Tale" about a team and a mob of macropods reaching new heights in training.  For questions or suggestions about the podcast email ⁠[email protected]⁠ For more information on the ABMA’s virtual conference visit this link: https://www.theabma.org/virtual-conference To submit an abstract for the ABMA 2026 annual conference visit this link: https://www.theabma.org/abma-annual-conference To complete the podcast feedback survey visit this link: ⁠⁠https://lp.constantcontactpages.com/sv/Rspt0Bk/abcpodcast2025⁠⁠ 1:30 Upcoming ABMA offerings  5:35 Definition and practical application of chaining and behavior chains 15:30 Backward chaining  22:35 Forward chaining  26:15 Recommendation to utilize backward chaining 31:15 Advice on preventing behavior chain breakdowns  33:50 The difference between chaining and shaping  38:50 “Training Tales” 

This episode wraps up (for now) the two episode arc discussing how changing conditions can change motivation with Wouter Stellaard, Behavior 360 and the Kuzo Group. Before listening to this episode, please take the time to listen to Part 1 of this topic which is episode 68 of the podcast.  This episode is a direct continuation of Episode 68 in which Wouter discusses a multitude of ways in which we can change conditions to change motivation without utilizing diet/weight management.  Wouter discusses strategies if you have come to “the last stop” and determined that the best decision is using food to change motivation. Topics covered include considerations on safety, non-food reinforcers, using all available resources, timing, specific situations, and the importance of record keeping and observations.  The episode ends on a reminder that behavior and learning itself is reinforcing and how we should be adding things, not removing them from animals’ lives and behavioral repitoires. Stay tuned in for Wouter’s inspiring “Training Tale” about training the next generation of animal care givers.    For questions or suggestions about the podcast email ⁠[email protected]⁠ and to contact Wouter email [email protected] or [email protected]  For more information and to register for the 2025 ABMA virtual conference visit this link: https://www.theabma.org/virtual-conference To complete the podcast feedback survey visit this link: ⁠⁠https://lp.constantcontactpages.com/sv/Rspt0Bk/abcpodcast2025⁠⁠ Let's talk some training and banter about behavior! 1:40 New ABMA Virtual Conference + Behavior Month Information 3:50 Short recap of Episode 68 - Part 1  10:25 Shifting from Diet/Weight Management to Behavior Management  14:05 Non-Food Reinforcers  17:50 The Last Stop: Using Food to Change Motivation  19:50 Timing of Sessions  21:20 Considerations for Using Food to Change Motivation 24:35 Importance of Record Keeping and Observations  26:15 Considerations About Safety  28:50 Using All the Resources Available to Make the Most Informed Decisions  33:50 Signs that Using Food is Detrimental  39:45 Can the Animal Physically Accomplish the Behavior 41:35 Definition of Depreciation and its Practical Application   44:50 Behavior and Learning are Reinforcing  52:30 “Training Tale” 

This episode begins a two episode arc discussing how changing conditions can change motivation with Wouter Stellaard, Behavior 360 and the Kuzo Group. In this episode Wouter discusses the many, and not exclusive, ways in which we can change conditions to change motivation that do not involve diet management.  The episode begins by discussing motivation as a construct and a label and then breaking down motivating operations and setting events. Wouter educates on the many ways in which we can alter antecedents and the environment in order to effect motivation.  Additionally, Wouter encourages listeners to evaluate ourselves and our shaping plans.  Stay tuned in for Wouter’s “Training Tale” about getting into the weeds of training Calm Attentive Behaviors (CAB) with wolves at Bearizona.   For questions or suggestions about the podcast email ⁠[email protected]⁠ and to contact Wouter email [email protected] or [email protected]  For more information and to register for the ABMA virtual courses visit this link: ⁠⁠https://www.theabma.org/behavior-management-courses⁠⁠ To complete the podcast feedback survey visit this link: ⁠⁠https://lp.constantcontactpages.com/sv/Rspt0Bk/abcpodcast2025⁠⁠ Let's talk some training and banter about behavior!  3:50 Introduction to Wouter Stellaard  9:40 A jumping off point for a discussion  11:35 Change from weight management mindset to behavior management mindset 15:10 Definition of Motivation 18:50 Motivation as a label  22:55 Motivation and the Study of One in One Moment 26:20 Definition of Motivating Operations and Setting Events  29:20 Relationship and Trust  30:40 Variety of reinforcers  31:10 Variety of asked behaviors, rate of reinforcement  33:20 Shifting the mindset to what we can do and away from the animal isn’t motivated 37:10 Antecedents and changing the environment  43:50 Evaluating ourselves  49:55 Differential Outcome Effect 52:00 Competing Reinforcers  56:30 Reevaluating our shaping plan 59:40 Low Motivation vs Reinforced Behavior  1:03:50 Social Structure and Hierarchy  1:13:50 “Training Tales” 

This episode Ari Bailey, Natural Encounters, Inc., discusses a topic that she will be presenting on at the IAATE Symposium titled “Get Out of the Way and Let Behavior Happen.”  The episode is a great conversation that focuses on recognizing when to fade out and when to implement specific tools such as baiting, prompts, target, etc.  Ari also gives advice on how to approach others with ideas on changing or trying something new in the training process.  The discussion finishes with Ari discussing how getting out of the way of the animal’s behavior can create more consistent and resilient behaviors and learners.   Stay tuned in for Ari’s very unique "Training Tale" about the origin story of a terminology for different sizes of peanuts.  For questions or suggestions about the podcast email ⁠[email protected]⁠ and to contact Ari email [email protected] ⁠ For more information and to register for the ABMA virtual courses visit this link: ⁠https://www.theabma.org/behavior-management-courses⁠ To complete the podcast feedback survey visit this link: ⁠https://lp.constantcontactpages.com/sv/Rspt0Bk/abcpodcast2025⁠ Let's talk some training and banter about behavior!  4:30 Introduction to Ari Bailey  12:55 “Get Out of the Way and Let the Behavior Happen”  21:10 How to recognize that it’s time to move on from an approximation  30:30 Using baiting, targets, prompts in the shaping process  42:00 Advice on how to approach teammates with moving to the next approximation  46:10 How to approach teammates about “testing” something new  53:00 How does this correlate to consistent and resilient behaviors?  1:02:05 “Training Tales” 

This episode Dr. Susan Friedman, Behavior Works, provides some great learning and insights into a multitude of current topics surrounding the science of behavior change.  Dr. Friedman starts with discussing the Hierarchy of Behavior Change Procedures; what it is, how we can view it to provide optimal welfare to animals, and also the importance of antecedent arrangement and the environment to behavior change.  She also breaks down what it means and looks like in practice when we strive for most positive, least intrusive, effective intervention.  Dr. Friedman then gives a summary on the free operant approach to enrichment.  She finishes the discussion by diving into the concept of control by honoring the no and shaping the yes.   Stay tuned in for Dr. Friedman’s very unique "Training Tale" about plant learning.  For questions or suggestions about the podcast email ⁠[email protected]⁠ and to contact Dr. Friedman email ⁠ [email protected]  For more information and to register for the ABMA virtual courses visit this link: https://www.theabma.org/behavior-management-courses To complete the podcast feedback survey visit this link: https://lp.constantcontactpages.com/sv/Rspt0Bk/abcpodcast2025 Let's talk some training and banter about behavior!  5:10 Introduction to Dr. Susan Friedman and Behavior Works 19:25 Hierarchy of Behavior Change Procedures 27:00 Most Positive, Least Intrusive, Effective Intervention  36:20 The importance of antecedent arrangement and the environment on behavior  48:05 Free Operant approach to enrichment  1:07:00 Honor the No, Shape the Yes

This episode, through daily live recordings, features a recap of the 2025 ABMA Annual Conference (April 27 - May 2 2025) hosted by Moody Gardens in Galveston, Texas, United States. Each day of the conference, one of the presenters for the day discusses their presentation and other learning that impacted them.  Day 1: Marie Filipek, Zoo Tampa at Lowry Park Day 2: Heidi Moomaw, Charles River Labs Day 3: Benjamin Fainsod, Jerusalem Zoo Day 4: Matthew Nguyen & Li Shan Tan, Resorts World Sentosa If you are an ABMA member be sure to log in to Animalprofessional.com to watch most of the presentations and panels from the 2025 conference. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email [email protected]. Let's talk some training and banter about behavior! Here is the link to the podcast survey.  We really appreciate your feedback! https://lp.constantcontactpages.com/sv/Rspt0Bk/abcpodcast2025  Let's talk some training and banter about behavior! 5:10 Discussion of Conference Day 1 with Marie Filipek, Zoo Tampa at Lowry Park.   12:15 Discussion of Conference Day 2 with Heidi Moomaw, Charles River Labs 35:10 Discussion of Conference Day 3 with Benjamin Fainsod, Jerusalem Zoo 53:15 Discussion of Conference Day 4 with Matthew Nguyen & Li Shan Tan, Resorts World Sentosa

This episode was a live panel recording at the 2025 ABMA annual conference in Galveston Texas hosted by Moody Gardens.  The expert panel consisted of Tim Sullivan - Brookfield Zoo, Elly Neumann - Jerusalem Zoo, Nicki Boyd- San Diego Zoo, Anaka Nazareth - National Aquarium, and Chris Jenkins - Natural Encounters Inc.  The panel’s theme was “The Importance of Behavior in Modern Animal Care” with questions submitted in real time from the conference attendees. The panel discussed a wide range of topics ranging from the growth of the role behavior plays in welfare to the evolution and next steps in enrichment, to advice on getting buy-in for change. In the absence of a “Training Tale” for this episode, each of the panelists utilize their years of experience to provide their “Animal Behavior Advice”. For questions or suggestions about the podcast or to get in contact with the panelists email ⁠[email protected]⁠. Let's talk some training and banter about behavior!

This episode Steve Martin, President and CEO of Natural Encounters, Inc., discusses training on a continuum by moving away from coercion and towards genuine choice. Steve starts the episode by giving a review of the concepts of choice and… control with some practical examples.  The discussion then turns to breaking down behavioral degrees of freedom, genuine choice, and coercion with many more great practical examples. The episode ends with Steve outlining that real-world animal training requires us to train on the continuum but always striving towards providing genuine choice in order to enhance an animal’s welfare.  Stay tuned in for Steve’s motivation and emotional "Training Tale" about a trainer from a show at the Singapore Zoo.  For questions or suggestions about the podcast email ⁠[email protected]⁠ and to contact Steve email [email protected]⁠ Let's talk some training and banter about behavior! 3:45 Introduction to Steve Martin  9:25 Review of Choice and… Control  18:55 Degrees of Behavioral Freedom 28:20 Free Choice 30:35 Genuine Choice 44:05 Coercion  56:15 Training on the Continuum 1:04:15 “Training Tales”

This episode Mel Paynter and Alyse Stitt, Georgia Aquarium, discuss motivation in the context of animal behavior and training.  In part 1 of this two episode discussion Mel and Alyse discuss what motivation is, what it looks like in practice, and give some o-fish-ally great examples from the many aquatic species that they work with in the Ocean Voyager habitat at the Georgia Aquarium.  They both dive deeper into breaking down and discussing some of the numerous stimuli and events that can affect motivation.   The discussion finishes with their advice on how to productively and effectively use motivation as a tool in our training toolbox and not as a label.  Stay tuned in for Mel and Alyse’s “Training Tales” that focus on how the fish they have worked with have taught them and changed their perspective. You can also learn more information about the 2025 ABMA annual conference by visiting www.abma.org For questions or suggestions about the podcast email ⁠[email protected]⁠ and to contact Mel and Alyse email [email protected] or [email protected] Let's talk some training and banter about behavior!  3:25 Introduction to Mel Paynter and Alyse Stitt 8:15 Overview of Ocean Voyager habitat at Georgia Aquarium  10:15 Definition of Motivation  13:45 Definition of Motivating Operations  Affects on Motivation:  17:10 Food and Enrichment  24:00 Breeding/Courtship  34:00 Social Structure/Situations  39:50 Environment 43:35 Weather/Seasonality 45:00 Learning History  47:50 Animal’s physical ability to do something 48:50 Previous access to resources 50:35 Differences in motivation among individuals  59:25 Advice for using motivation productively and effectively, not as a label 1:05:35 “Training Tales”

This episode Shane Gorbett, Philadelphia Zoo and host of the podcast, discusses and breaks down fading. Shane first discusses examples of what fading looks like in practice and how we can apply the artful application of the science of behavior change in order to know when and how to fade.  Shane also discusses the challenges of fading too quickly, too slowly, or not at all.  Stay tuned in for Shane’s "Training Tale" about Nile crocodile crate training and the importance of paying attention to the communication that we provide to animals.  Visit www.theabma.org for more information and for questions or suggestions about the podcast or to contact Shane, email ⁠[email protected]⁠ Let's talk some training and banter about behavior!  5:35 Introduction to Shane Gorbett  14:10 Definition of Fading and Examples  25:10 Fading to change a behavior’s cue.  28:00 How do we know when to fade?  31:50 What happens if we fade too quickly?  37:35 What happens if we fade too slowly?  39:05 What happens if we never fade at all?  42:55 “Training Tale”

This episode Tricia Dees, the second vice president of the ABMA, continues on with the discussion from Episode 59 and goes deeper into primary/unconditioned and secondary/conditioned reinforcers.  Tricia gives some common examples of primary/unconditioned and secondary/conditioned reinforcers but also talks about how individual preference plays a role in determining what is actually a reinforcer for each individual.  The discussion then turns to why and how we can condition a reinforcer and the importance of watching the animal’s behavior to ensure that a conditioned reinforcer maintains its effectiveness. Stay tuned in for Tricia’s “Training Tale” about how she used learning from a presentation at an ABMA conference about zebra training with an otter. You can also learn more information about the 2025 ABMA annual conference by visiting www.abma.org For questions or suggestions about the podcast email ⁠[email protected]⁠ and to contact Tricia email [email protected] Let's talk some training and banter about behavior!  4:05 Introduction to Tricia Dees  6:10 Definition of a Primary/Unconditioned Reinforcer  8:50 Definition of a Secondary/Conditioned Reinforcer  11:50 Are primary and secondary reinforcers the same for every individual in a species?  19:25 Why would we condition a reinforcer?  22:00 Example of how to condition a reinforcer and how to tell if it is an effective reinforcer 30:45 How to tell if a conditioned reinforcer has lost its effectiveness as a reinforcer  36:30 “Training Tales”