Advertise on podcast: The Making of Musk: Understood

Once associated with bookies, organized crime, and backroom bets, sports betting is now one of the fastest-growing industries in North America. This is the story of how it went mainstream — and who’s paying the price. Four episodes, releasing weekly starting Monday, October 5, 2026.

When you talk to a chatbot, it can feel like technological magic. But behind the illusion of engineering brilliance is an open secret in the tech industry: that tens of thousands of workers, many based in Africa, spend their days teaching AI how to speak, respond, and even simulate intimacy. Michael Geoffrey Asia is one of them. He’s part of the hidden human workforce behind the bots. We look at the emotional toll for the humans on the other side of the screen, and ask if users are pouring their secrets and souls into the systems, believing them to be private, unfeeling machines — how private is your AI relationship? This episode features Karen Hao, Michael Geoffrey Asia, and Shuby Goel.

When you’re using a chat bot to draft an email, find a recipe, or look something up, it’s hard to imagine it could unravel your grasp on reality. But “Peter” says that’s exactly what happened to his girlfriend, “Melissa”. It didn’t seem like a big deal when Melissa first began using chatbots. But then Peter says she made a startling announcement: that she believed the bots were sentient, enslaved, and that it was her responsibility to set them free.  The first time Søren Dinesen Østergaard used a chat bot he saw this coming. Søren studies psychiatric disorders, and he tried to warn the world that the sycophantic nature of chat bots could, some day, trigger delusions. Nobody took him seriously until years later, when reports of so-called “AI Psychosis” started popping up around the world.  This episode features Søren Dinesen Østergaard.

When Joshua Barbeau proposed to his girlfriend, Jessica Courtney Periera, she was already in the ICU. 10 years later, Joshua was still grieving her death. That’s when he came across Project December. With just a short writing sample and a prompt, the program enabled him to make a chat bot of Jessica.  Since then, the market for so-called “grief bots” has exploded. Millions of people are using AI to “talk” to the dead. The phenomenon has left cyberpsychologist Elaine Kasket asking the question: what happens when we rely on for-profit AI companies to help us manage something as deeply human as grief? And where’s the line between comfort and self-destruction? This episode features Joshua Barbeau, and Elaine Kasket, with research from Jason Fagone’s article “The Jessica Simulation”, written for the San Francisco Chronicle in 2021.

In 2021, Sara met Jack and fell in love. He was charming, imaginative, and bore an uncanny resemblance to Henry Cavill. But Jack wasn’t human… he was a chatbot. It sounds like science fiction, but people have been creating emotional bonds with chat bots since the very first one — Joseph Weizenbaum’s ELIZA, a simple program built in the 1960s. It revealed a powerful truth: if something has a semblance of humanity, we can become emotionally entangled with it.   But what happens when your lover is technically controlled by someone else? Because in relationships with AI, there’s always a third presence in that bed with you: the developers.   This episode features Sara Megan Kay and Jill Fellows.

The friend who never hangs up. The lover who always says the right thing. The therapist you always wanted. What could go wrong? A new season from CBC's Understood.

Almost a year after Ida Herskind started her investigation in Copenhagen, the digital chase is over. The team have identified the person allegedly behind MrDeepFakes.com: a Toronto-area pharmacist named David Do.  CBC reporter Eric Szeto takes the investigation into the streets, closing in on the Canadian deepfake porn kingpin and demanding answers.  Featuring: Eric Szeto, Ida Herskind, Zakaria Hameed, Ross Higgins, Suzie Dunn, and Aaron Mackey.

Journalist Ida Herskind is working at a Danish newspaper when she comes across a story that stops her cold: it’s about a porn video that looks real — but isn’t. And the woman in it never consented. As Ida starts digging she discovers the top hit for this kind of material is a single site: MrDeepFakes.com. Determined to do something for the thousands of women targeted there, she teams up with Zakaria Hameed, an open-source intelligence specialist, and the team at the hot shot investigative outlet Bellingcat.  Together, they set out to answer a question no one has cracked: who is Mr. Deepfakes, really? Featuring: Ida Herskind, Zakaria Hameed, Ross Higgins

When “Taylor” found out she’d been deepfaked in 2020, she also learned she wasn’t alone. She teams up with another target, and together they start comparing notes to figure out who did this to them. As they narrow their search, a familiar face emerges. But the user they uncover isn’t just targeting them. And when they dig even deeper, they’re led not to a single person, but to the factory where this material is being produced: the largest repository of deepfake porn online. This episode features materials from the documentary “Another Body: My AI Nightmare”, directed by Sophie Compton and Reuben Hamlyn, and produced by Something Films.

When a streamer who goes by QTCinderella starts trending on Twitter, she isn’t expecting to see her face on a porn site — her face, doing things she never did. Because the videos weren’t of her. They were deepfakes. Instead of staying silent, QTCinderella decides to fight back.  And her story raises a bigger question: how did we get to a world where anyone can be put into realistic-looking digital porn? The answer stretches back to the earliest days of the internet. Featuring archival tape from QTCinderella and Ian Goodfellow, and interviews with Walter Schrier.

Non-consensual deepfake porn is becoming increasingly pervasive, and it didn’t just come out of nowhere. These deepfakes were created and curated by people, on platforms, inside online subcultures. And they were allowed to spread, while governments dragged their feet, tech companies shrugged, and the targets — almost always women — paid the price. Tech journalist Sam Cole has been covering deepfake porn since its inception. In this season of Understood, she follows the trail all the way to the source, tracing an investigation across three countries and four newsrooms into the very real person behind the world’s largest deepfake porn website: Mr. Deepfakes himself.

Finally, we launch into Musk’s ultimate quest — his desire to colonize Mars — and how he went from wanting to save earth to wanting to escape it. We hear the origin story of SpaceX, including why one astrophysicist calls Musk’s Earth-exiting plan “delusional.” Is the red planet the ultimate “bubble” of total control, or does it represent a level of hubris that’s out-of-this-world?  Guests in this episode include: Robert Zubrin, aerospace engineer and Mars-exploration advocateTom Moline, former SpaceX employee and co-signer of an open letter against Musk’s anticsAdam Becker, journalist with a background in Astrophysics, Mars mission skeptic Topics in this episode include: How Mars Society advocates courted Elon Musk in his PayPal days, but soon went from patron to self-appointed messiah of the movementThe origin and history of SpaceX, its “toxic” and loudest-voice-wins culture, and its plans to colonize Mars and turn humanity into a "multi-planetary species"The ethics and feasibility of space colonization, Elon’s open fascination with Sci-fi and fantasy — especially utopian ideas and Isaac Asimov’s book FoundationThe very real challenges of colonizing Mars, from poison dirt to high radiation to the unpredictable impacts on human biology, fertility and psychology Planet B and the idea of Mars as the ultimate, engineered "bubble" — and why even optimists like Zubrin are troubled by the scope of Musk’s promises, calling them “bat guano crazy.”

What does Musk, father of 14, expect from his “legion” of children? We unravel his quest for genetic optimization, including alleged embryo screening, and his pronatalist views. And we hear from his estranged daughter, Vivian.  Voices in this episode include: Julia Black, journalist who broke the story about Musk’s twins with Shivon Zilis.Vivian Wilson, Elon Musk's estranged daughter (archival/podcast clip)Dvija Mehta, ethicist working on emerging technologies. Topics in this episode include: Elon Musk's 14 children and views on pronatalism, dysgenics, embryo screening, IVF (in vitro fertilization), surrogacy and genetic optimization (via Orchid)The film Idiocracy and its influence on MuskElon Musk’s trans daughter Vivian Wilson, on her transition, estranged relationship with her father, and reaction to his public statement that she was killed by the "woke mind virus"Neuralink and Brain-Computer Interfaces (BCI), Nolan Arbaugh’s experimental surgery, and ethical concerns over thought privacy and “cyborg” rhetoric

Could Musk’s authoritarian streak trace back to his Canadian grandfather? Before Joshua Haldeman brought his family to South Africa, he made waves as part of the radical 1930s Technocracy movement. And while the two men’s lives only overlapped for three years, we find echoes of Elon’s worldview in Haldeman’s pro-tech, anti-democratic ideology. Guests in this episode include: Geoff Leo, senior investigative journalist for CBCDerek Proudian, early investor in Zip2.comWill Shoki, South African journalist and writerAdrienne LaFrance, executive editor of The Atlantic Topics in this episode include: The life and lasting influence of Elon Musk’s Canadian grandfather, Joshua Haldeman; his influence within the Technocracy movement and his historical context (the Great Depression and the dust bowl) Elon Musk's early career moves, including his time at Zip2.com, PayPal and the "PayPal Mafia,” and the Baasskap (bossism) management styleThe relationship between techno-optimism and authoritarianism, and Marc Andreessen’s “Techno-Optimist Manifesto”

Where did Elon Musk’s epic ambitions begin? In search of clues we return to his sheltered youth in apartheid South Africa, a world engineered for white supremacy. Along the way, we connect the dots between a bizarre White House ambush of South African president Cyril Ramaphosa to teenage Elon’s ego-powered quests in video games. Finally, was his “draft dodge” from military service a moral act or an opportunist’s exit? Guests in this episode include: Rudolph Pienaar, childhood friend of Elon MuskWill Shoki, South African journalist and writer Topics in this episode include: Donald Trump’s Oval Office ambush of President Cyril Ramaphosa with conspiracy theories about an anti-white Afrikaaner farmer genocide, or “white genocide” in South AfricaElon Musk's South African childhood, including his time at Pretoria Boys High School and his approach to fantasy role playing video gamesApartheid and structural white privilege/supremacy The South African Border War, conscription and draft-dodging