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In this episode of the Grow Places Podcast, Tom Larsson sits down with Celeste McGinley of Knight Frank’s Global Data Centre team. Celeste advises buyers, sellers and occupiers on data centres, land and co-location space, mainly across Europe, Asia and the Middle East. Data centres are in the headlines more and more, yet few people understand what they are, why we need them, or why they are so hard to deliver. This episode is a clear, practical explainer. Celeste describes how every email, stored photo and banking transaction runs through a physical building somewhere. She also explains how a sector that only emerged in the late 1990s has grown dramatically in scale and importance in just a few years. Topics covered include: What a data centre actually is, and the difference between enterprise, co-location and hyperscale facilitiesHow quickly scale has grown, with European builds now exceeding 100 megawatts and some approaching 500 megawatts, and why AI could at least double demand over the next five to eight yearsWhy location has traditionally been driven by network and connectivity, from the West London cluster to Docklands, and how shortages of land and power, planning and the cost of power are now reshaping site selectionThe significance of the UK government designating data centres as Critical National Infrastructure in September 2024, and the knock-on effects for planning and grid reformPublic concerns about data centres, whether they can be sustainable, and why the sector needs to get better at explaining what it doesAlternative power, from gas to small modular reactors, and Celeste’s long-held ambition to put a data centre in spaceThe US, Middle East and Asian markets, and Celeste’s advice to UK developers: be creative, be flexible, and stay close to the established data centre heartlandsFor more from Grow Places, visit growplaces.com and follow us at We Grow Places across all social channels.

In this episode of the Grow Places Podcast, Tom Larsson sits down with Max Farrell, founder of LDN Collective. LDN Collective is a values-led network of independent built environment specialists who come together to work on projects in London, across the UK and beyond. Max spent around ten years as a partner at Farrells, the practice founded by his father, Sir Terry Farrell. His work there covered communications, masterplanning and urban regeneration, and he worked on the Farrell Review of architecture and the built environment. Seven years ago he set out to test a different model. It was partly inspired by the way the film industry brings together a cast and crew for each project. LDN Collective unites SMEs and specialists around a shared set of values. Clients get senior expertise without the overheads of a large multidisciplinary firm, and members can take on work at a scale they could not reach alone. Topics covered include: The four values that bind the Collective (diverse, dynamic, beyond profit and, above all, collaborative), and why collaboration is easy to claim but much harder to practiseHow the model works in practice, from flexible procurement routes and a member referral system to a membership fee Max compares to a gym subscriptionWhy bringing social impact, community engagement and sustainability into the team at the very start of a project changes every decision that followsThe Wolfson Prize entry that became a four-act play about the hospital of the future, and how it led to Max chairing the Healthy City Design CongressWhy every place already has a cultural identity, and why the industry should work to understand it rather than impose a brandLeadership as convening and empowering rather than directing, and why trust depends on honesty, consistency and knowing when to pick up the phonePlans to take the city collective model beyond London, with conversations under way in Newcastle and SydneyFor more from Grow Places, visit growplaces.com and follow us at We Grow Places across all social channels.

In this episode of the Grow Places Podcast, Tom Larsson sits down with Antony Slumbers, PropTech strategist and advisor, and a pioneer of the sector since launching the UK's first commercial real estate website in 1995. Antony's central provocation is simple: as AI drives the cost of intelligence toward zero, the qualities that remain scarce, and valuable, are distinctly human ones. He calls this "human is the new luxury," and the conversation traces what that means for cities, buildings and the people who make decisions about both. Topics covered include: Why real estate is shifting from a market of need to a market of want, and what that means for every asset class except housingThe case for mixed use cities, and why offices now have to catalyse human skills rather than simply house desksThe risk of AI-driven inequality, and why Antony believes a new social contract will be needed as returns shift toward capital and away from knowledge workWhy he sees AI as the ultimate thinking partner for real estate professionals, and why the "we need more data first" objection no longer holdsThe difference between investors who still want guaranteed NOI from familiar assets, and those willing to back visionary, entrepreneurial developmentHow cities and towns build a brand and a cluster others want to be part of, from King's Cross to NashvilleThe four skills Antony believes everyone now needs: human skills, critical thinking, systems thinking, and data literacyAntony currently runs the Generative AI for Real Estate course, updating it every six weeks to keep pace with the field, and is a widely followed commentator on proptech and the future of work. For more from Grow Places, visit growplaces.com and follow us at We Grow Places across all social channels.

Ofri Earon is an architect, urban planner, and the founder and director of Neighborhood Lab, a Copenhagen based strategic advisory working on social impact in housing and neighbourhood design. Her career began in Amsterdam, working on the transformation of the Bijlmermeer, before a PhD in social sustainability in residential areas led her to see housing as something far bigger than shelter. In this conversation, Ofri makes the case for treating housing as social infrastructure, arguing that where and how people live shapes their life chances as much as their income does. She explains why social issues can't be solved within the boundaries of a single property, and why neighbourhood, not building, has to be the unit of design. The conversation moves through governance as the often invisible work of aligning private investors, housing associations and residents around shared goals, and through density, where she draws on Copenhagen's courtyard model to show how closely packed housing can still support genuine community. The conversation also includes a personal reflection from Ofri on leaving her own neighbourhood of Vesterbro for a larger family home. "I just really loved living there," she says, a candid illustration of how deeply the places we live shape our sense of identity. In this episode: Why housing should be measured as social infrastructure, not just as shelterWhy neighbourhood scale, not building scale, is where social impact is actually createdThe role of governance in preventing "us and them" dynamics between residentsWhat Copenhagen's courtyard model teaches about density done wellWhy engagement and listening to residents has to be a continuous process, not a one off consultationA personal reflection on identity, place, and what's lost when you leave a neighbourhood you love

Nick Searl spent over two decades at Argent, where he played a central role in the development of King's Cross, one of the UK's most significant regeneration projects. He now advises Urban Partners, a Copenhagen based investment business, on large scale urban regeneration across Europe. Reflecting on a Radio 4 programme about the lost art of getting lost, Nick makes the case for a different relationship with uncertainty, one where the goal isn't to eliminate risk but to become comfortable working within it. As he puts it, we live life in the yellow, not the red or the green. He carries that thinking through to how cities and developers plan for the long term, arguing that the only certainty over a fifteen or twenty year delivery period is that the social, economic and political context will change significantly. The conversation covers the King's Cross Principles, a shared manifesto written over twelve months with English Heritage and Camden Council before a single drawing was produced, the most basic finding from King's Cross community engagement, that people wanted, above all else, to feel safe and secure, and the case for co-creation over adversarial relationships between developers, cities and investors. Nick closes with a personal reflection on stepping back from a long, structured career and finding a new sense of purpose through coaching and advisory work. In this episode: Why we should get more comfortable living in the grey, or the yellow, rather than demanding certaintyThe King's Cross Principles and why the process mattered more than the planWhat a thousand people told Argent they actually wanted from King's CrossWhy the adversarial mindset between developers and cities holds regeneration backReflections on identity, purpose and reinvention after a long career

In this episode of the Grow Places Podcast, Tom Larsson is joined by Nick McKeogh, co-founder and Chief Executive of NLA, to explore two decades of building a civic institution dedicated to bringing together everyone who shapes the built environment. Nick reflects on NLA's origins around London's 2005 Olympic bid, born from a simple observation: the professionals who plan, design, fund and build the city rarely had a shared space to think together, and Londoners themselves were often left out of the conversation entirely. The discussion unpacks NLA's "three Ps" framework for successful placemaking, people, place and purpose, and why starting with people rather than form or finance leads to better outcomes. Nick shares striking research showing the built environment sector accounts for 25% of UK GVA and one in eight jobs, yet remains fragmented across professions that rarely see themselves as part of one industry. He discusses NLA's shift towards "systems leadership," the idea that no single visionary shapes a great city, but rather thousands of collaborating actors, and explores common misconceptions held by developers, architects, communities and politicians about one another. Nick also traces his personal route into this work, beginning as a child in his father's architectural model-making business during the early 1990s recession, and reflects on the enduring power of physical models to inspire young people in an increasingly screen-based world. The conversation closes with his ambition for a global network of NLA-style institutions, and a call for the industry to slow down and invest time upfront in genuine conversation, arguing that patience and trust-building ultimately deliver better places, faster.

In this episode, Tom Larsson is joined by Muyiwa Oki, architect, former RIBA president, and now at Mace, to explore what it takes to reform a 200-year-old institution from the inside, why technical grounding matters more than ever for architects, and how the built environment can better serve the communities it shapes. Muyiwa traces a deliberate route through smaller practices, building technical foundations before moving into large-scale infrastructure delivery at Mace. He shares what drove him to stand for the RIBA presidency, a campaign rooted in the uncompensated overtime that defined his generation's experience of the profession, and how holding that role sharpened his ability to lead, communicate, and advocate under pressure. The conversation covers the barriers that continue to narrow who enters architecture: the length and cost of training, and the structural gap between education and practice. Muyiwa makes the case for level seven apprenticeships, for building regulations to be embedded in architectural education, and for architects to embrace the principal designer role as a step towards reclaiming responsibility across the full project lifecycle. Tom and Muyiwa also examine what makes public space genuinely work, the risk of hyper-financialisation in the built environment, and why leaving room for people to inhabit places as they choose may be the most honest measure of whether a place was really designed for them. Recorded at the Barbican, London.

In this episode, Tom sits down with Rose Wangen-Jones, Managing Director for Marketing, Destination and Commercial at London and Partners, the growth agency for London. They meet in Southwark to talk about what makes London genuinely distinctive, how the city manages its brand at scale, and the shared responsibility required to keep one of the world's great cities competitive, inclusive and resilient. Rose explains how London and Partners approaches its mission to create economic growth that is sustainable and inclusive, and why the city's brand rests on the combination of the iconic and the innovative. The conversation covers the London Growth Plan and its five identified growth sectors, including the experience economy, which Rose argues is the foundation everything else depends on. They discuss the concept of Team London, a coordinated effort to align messaging across partners, businesses and institutions so that more people are telling London's story consistently and well. Tom and Rose also explore the harder questions: the risks of complacency, the challenge of disinformation, the tension between growth and affordability, and what it takes to develop a city in a way that genuinely benefits the people who live there. Rose shares her perspective on placemaking, investment clusters, and the work of sister organisation Opportunity London in attracting long-term capital to the city. They close with a question about what London should build next, and what it might look like if the city expanded its footprint beyond the West End to offer more people access to the experiences that make it worth coming to, and worth staying in.

This episode takes its title from Henley Halebrown's recently published book, Building for Society, and we are privileged to have worked closely with Simon and the practice for over a decade, aligning elegant and economic buildings with the needs of people and place. In this episode of the Grow Places Podcast, Tom Larsson is joined by Simon Henley, Director of Henley Halebrown, at the practice's studio in Perseverance Works, East London. Simon reflects on thirty years of practice built around a deceptively simple conviction: that every building, regardless of its budget or brief, is fundamentally for people and for society. From early work in interiors and adaptive reuse through to award-winning schools, health centres, co-housing and housing, he traces a career shaped as much by accident and curiosity as by intention, and explains how writing, teaching and practice fuel one another. The conversation explores how Henley Halebrown's recurring interest in courtyards, external circulation and civic responsibility has produced buildings that are both elegant and economic, solving practical problems around efficiency, microclimate and construction while elevating the experience of everyday life. The discussion also delves into collaboration and the culture of design teams, with Simon reflecting on the value of intimate, discursive project meetings where people feel free to pose questions and challenge the status quo. Drawing on projects from the Hackney school that stayed open at 40 degrees to the Copper Lane co-housing scheme, from the Truman Brewery to the newly completed Barge Crescent on the South Bank, he demonstrates how buildings can reflect the social logic of the organisations and communities they serve. Simon also shares insights from his time chairing the RIBA awards judging panel, where he helped rewrite the criteria to ask better questions about what makes a good building. Looking ahead, he describes the practice's work in Winchester with Igloo, Peter Barber and Turner Works on what he believes will be the greatest transformation of the city in a thousand years, not through scale, but through the careful repair of streets, squares and medieval waterways. Ambitious yet grounded, his message is clear: keep your feet on the ground and your head in the clouds.

In this episode of the Grow Places Podcast, Tom Larsson is joined by Tom Holbrook, Director of 5th Studio, to explore what it means to work across the full spectrum of architecture, urban design and strategic planning. Tom describes how 5th Studio has spent over two decades navigating what he calls "border country," the complex, often neglected edges of cities where political boundaries, infrastructure, severance and opportunity collide. From the Olympic Park in Stratford to Oxford and Cambridge colleges, from railway land to heavy infrastructure, he explains how synthetic, transdisciplinary thinking and a willingness to zoom between strategy and making within the same team sets their approach apart. Drawing on the Sun Tzu maxim that strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory, and tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat, he makes the case for holding both together if we want to solve the most intractable problems facing our towns and cities. The conversation also traces the arc of creative planning in London, from the early days of the Architecture and Urbanism Unit under Ken Livingstone and Richard Rogers through to the emerging potential of regional mayors and mission-led leadership. Tom reflects on the loss of medium-grain developers and the challenge of follow-on delivery, the risks and rewards of working with railway land, and why the traditional viability model may no longer be fit for purpose. With a background that began in theatre carpentry and film set design before leading to architecture, he brings an unusual perspective on the art of pulling things together and making big impressions from limited resources. Candid about the damage of the austerity mindset and optimistic about the need for fresh thinking, he argues that the problems facing us, from climate to housing to hollowed-out high streets, simply will not wait for the economy to catch up.

In this episode of the Grow Places Podcast, Tom Larsson is joined by Stephanie Edwards, Architect, Urban Designer and Co-Founder of Urban Symbiotics, to explore what it truly means to put people at the forefront of meaningful change in the built environment. Stephanie shares how Urban Symbiotics works at the intersection of people, data and design, using demographically representative engagement to turn lived experience into evidence that shapes better places. From street conversations and stay-and-play groups to targeted social media and multilingual outreach, she explains how her team meets people where they are, building trust and gathering insights that enrich the design process rather than replacing it. Drawing on projects spanning London boroughs, rural market towns, Lebanon and South America, Stephanie makes a compelling case for why community engagement is not a nice-to-have but an essential part of delivering places that genuinely work. The conversation also explores the challenges of maintaining trust over long project timescales, the gap between consultation and genuine participation, and why the lessons of the Grenfell Tower tragedy must not be forgotten. Stephanie reflects on her own journey from architecture and master planning into participatory design, describing the moment she realised that engagement insight arrived too late to shape the outcome, and how that experience led to the founding of Urban Symbiotics. From meanwhile use strategies in Dagenham to community handbooks in Purley and an intergenerational master plan in the Lebanese mountains, she demonstrates how hyper-local understanding and genuine collaboration can unlock better outcomes for communities, clients and design teams alike.

In this episode of the Grow Places Podcast, Tom Larsson travels to Copenhagen to meet Christian Søndergaard, Head of Saxogade, what may be the world's only socio-economic street. For over 40 years, the nine-shop operation run by an NGO has combined commercial vitality with meaningful work opportunities for people facing significant barriers to employment, from long-term illness to homelessness. Christian explains how the street functions as a real business whilst providing structured pathways back into work for around 100 people each week. Tasks are carefully broken down so that individuals can contribute genuine value rather than perform token activities. The model is deliberately not about volunteering as a resource, it is about agency, about being part of something, about creating value for others when you have spent years needing help yourself. The result is a thriving Copenhagen street that competes commercially whilst creating space for everyone. The conversation explores the stepping stone method, the three-way funding model that sustains the work, and why quality matters more than pity. Christian shares the story of a formerly homeless man who moved from intern to apartment to paid employment, and reflects on the intersection of meaning, fairness and city-making. He describes why he believes this model could work elsewhere, the daily challenge of balancing commercial and social needs, and what drives him personally to work at a place where the people you serve and the city you shape are inseparable.

In this episode of the Grow Places Podcast, Tom Larsson is joined by Hilary Satchwell, Director at Tibbalds Planning and Urban Design, to explore what it really means to put people at the heart of placemaking. Hilary reflects on nearly three decades at Tibbalds, where she has worked across scales and settings, from the edges of small towns to the centre of London, always with a focus on creating people-friendly places. She describes how thinking about specific people, their journeys, their safety, their daily lives, rather than a generic "everyone," leads to fundamentally better outcomes. The conversation touches on why good planning and good design are inseparable, and how collaborative, multi-disciplinary teams that share a clear objective can navigate even the most complex projects. The discussion also explores Tibbalds' recently published research into mid-rise development and the "missing middle," the three-to-seven-storey density that characterises some of our most valued historic places but has become increasingly difficult to deliver. Hilary unpacks the barriers, from planning rules around overlooking and parking to the decline of SME developers, and makes the case for clearer prioritisation if we want to achieve the variety and richness our towns and cities need. Beyond housing numbers, she argues passionately for social and cultural life to be treated as essential, not as a bonus. Drawing on her work as a Mayor's Design Advocate and her involvement with Part W's Built Barriers campaign, Hilary calls for planning that actively considers the needs of specific groups, particularly around safety and inclusion, and imagines a future where project briefs are written around how places should make people feel. Warm, curious and optimistic, she makes a compelling case for designing with emotion, specificity and genuine human understanding.

In this episode of the Grow Places Podcast, Tom Larsson is joined by Gerry Hughes, Managing Director of Gerry Hughes Consulting, to explore leadership, delivery and the realities of urban regeneration. Gerry reflects on stepping away from the corporate world to focus on projects that genuinely “make a difference,” from leading a major city-centre regeneration scheme in Belfast to delivering a cutting-edge nuclear science and clean energy campus near Bristol. Drawing on decades of experience across strategy, planning and executive leadership, he shares candid insights into why delivery in the UK is so challenging — pointing to bureaucracy, siloed thinking and a planning system he believes is fundamentally in need of reform. Throughout the conversation, Gerry returns to a central theme: the importance of strategic thinking, strong leadership and keeping a clear, shared vision to navigate complexity and turn ambitious plans into reality. The discussion also delves into housing delivery, public–private partnerships and the regeneration of cities such as Manchester and Belfast. Gerry reflects on formative experiences including the East Manchester regeneration framework and the influence of civic leadership in shaping long-term success. In Belfast, where he is now helping deliver a 1,000-home mixed-use scheme in the heart of the city, he describes a people-first approach focused on streetscape, heritage and creating lasting neighbourhoods. Passionate yet pragmatic, Gerry argues for greater risk-sharing between sectors, infrastructure-led growth and empowering cities with stronger leadership. Despite the challenges facing the UK property sector, he remains optimistic — believing that with the right vision, collaboration and courage, places can be shaped in ways that genuinely improve people’s lives.

In this episode of the Grow Places Podcast, Tom Larsson is joined by Jesse Shapins, Head of Urban Regeneration at Urban Partners, to explore what it really takes to deliver neighbourhood scale change in European cities.   Jesse shares his journey from a childhood shaped by landscape architecture and historic preservation, through New York and Berlin, to the ambition and lessons of Sidewalk Labs, and ultimately to leading urban regeneration across Northern Europe. It is a story that connects culture, capital, and civic responsibility, and asks how places are intentionally shaped rather than left to chance.   Together, they discuss what it means to be a true partner to cities, not simply delivering buildings, but stewarding places over the long term. The conversation explores decarbonisation, affordability, transport, and the politics of housing supply, alongside the role institutional capital can play when aligned with public purpose. At its heart, this is an optimistic but pragmatic discussion about how cities, investors, and communities can work together to create places that are economically resilient, socially inclusive, and built for the next generation.