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Chloe Tong opens up about the life behind the roles she is most known for: daughter, wife, mother of five, partner to Grab co-founder and CEO Anthony Tan, and now the work she is building through ACE Team Foundation. In this conversation, she shares how losing her mother young shaped the way she thinks about love and family, what boarding school taught her about independence, and how growing up gave her the freedom to be both ambitious and maternal. We go into the early days of her relationship with Anthony, why it began with deep respect before love, why she quit just two weeks after meeting him to build alongside him, the fights that shaped their marriage, and why they made the unconventional decision to put their marriage before their children. We also talk about motherhood, privilege, service, identity, the pressure of building a family in public, and what it means to create a home that feels steady even when life outside is not. At the heart of the conversation is a question Chloe is still living into: how do you build a life deeply intertwined with others while still becoming more fully yourself? Chapters 00:00:00 Getting to Know Chloe Tong 00:01:24 Growing Up with the Courage to Speak Up 00:03:42 Learning to Hold Love and Regret Together 00:05:18 Carrying Forward Unconditional Love 00:06:33 Finding Her Voice Away from Home 00:07:52 Knowing When Not to Rescue Your Child 00:09:51 Learning to See Her Mother More Fully 00:11:33 Why Children Don’t Always Need Equal 00:14:03 Wanting Both: Ambition and Motherhood 00:17:50 Meeting Anthony: A Relationship Built on Honesty 00:24:18 Building a Marriage Around Shared Values 00:26:27 Learning to Disagree Without Losing Respect 00:28:17 Choosing to Stay Through the Hard Things 00:31:33 Beyond Titles: Making Space for Every Version of Herself 00:34:12 What It Takes to Hold Family and Work Together 00:36:17 Building a Home That Feels Like Peace 00:38:43 Why Their Marriage Comes Before Their Children 00:44:03 Finding Purpose Through ACE Team Foundation 00:55:05 Building a Family Culture That Works for You 00:56:01 Finding Perspective Through Faith and Family 00:57:15 Who Is Chloe Beyond Everything She Does? 00:58:04 Learning to Put Ego Aside 01:01:52 When Purpose Calls You Beyond Yourself 01:03:25 What Her Mother Would Say Today Follow Rachel here: https://www.instagram.com/ms_rach/ Follow Chloe Tong here: https://www.instagram.com/chloetong/ Follow CLOSER here: https://www.instagram.com/closerwithrach/

When do children stop trusting themselves? They start out asking why about everything. They know what they like. They challenge us. They follow their curiosity without wondering whether they’re doing it “right”. And then, somewhere along the way, many start looking outside themselves for the answers. In the 2nd episode of Raising Conscious Humans, I sit down again with Hwee Keng Maeder, mother of three boys, including Singapore’s youngest Olympic medallist, Max Maeder, to talk about how we protect that inner compass instead of slowly overriding it. She tells me, “You can’t want to raise a curious child that doesn’t challenge you. Then it’s not a curious child.” We talk about knowing when to step in and when not to rescue, including why she resisted bringing her youngest home from a summer camp in Greece even when he called every day asking to leave. We also talk about giving children real responsibility, letting them face consequences, and creating different “pockets” where they can build confidence and self-worth, so their whole identity doesn’t rest on our approval or how well they perform. And I share a moment with Ollie that made me realise how easily our children’s struggles can start to feel like a reflection of us. At the heart of it is one question: How do we raise children who can trust themselves? Chapters 00:00:00 Introduction 00:02:00 Curious Child vs. Compliant Child 00:03:38 It’s Okay to Say, “Not Right Now” 00:04:49 Honouring the Child’s Agenda, Not Ours 00:08:52 How Good Intentions Can Kill Curiosity 00:11:47 Creating a Safe Space for Questions and Discernment 00:15:11 When to Sit With Discomfort Instead of Rescuing 00:19:11 “Is This for Them, or Is This for Me?” 00:23:21 When Our Child’s Struggle Feels Like Our Failure 00:27:45 Giving Children Space to Build Their Own Confidence 00:33:48 Letting Children Face Consequences 00:37:40 Raising Conscious Humans, Not Compliant Ones 00:39:01 The Mindset Shift That Changes How We Parent Follow CLOSER on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/closerwithrach/ Follow Rachel here:  https://www.instagram.com/ms_rach/

The word narcissist gets thrown around a lot. But what does narcissism actually look like in a relationship, and what happens to us when we spend too long trying to manage someone else? In this episode of CLOSER, I sit down with clinical psychologist and bestselling author Dr. Ramani Durvasula to unpack narcissism beyond the label: the subtle signs we often miss, why narcissistic people can be so charming to the outside world, and why the people closest to them can have a completely different experience. We talk about what it feels like to walk on eggshells, to second-guess what you say, to give endlessly but feel unsupported in return, and how, over time, you can begin silencing parts of yourself just to keep the peace. Dr. Ramani also shares why we cannot change another person's narcissism, what healthy boundaries and realistic expectations can look like, and why compassion for someone else should not require abandoning yourself. We explore healing, self-blame, healthy ego, social media, and how we can raise children with a stronger sense of who they are. One idea from this conversation stayed with me: more than one thing can be true at the same time. You can love someone and still be hurt by them. You can see the good in them and acknowledge that their behaviour may not change. And sometimes, healing begins with seeing the relationship for what it is, rather than continuing to believe that if we just love better, give more, or say the right thing, we can make it different. Chapters 00:00:00 Introduction 00:01:26 What Is Narcissism, Really? 00:03:57 Narcissism Is a Spectrum 00:06:12 How Dr. Ramani Recognised Narcissism in Her Own Life 00:08:42 What a Narcissistic Relationship Actually Feels Like 00:12:49 Is Social Media Fueling Narcissism? 00:15:16 How to Raise Children With a Strong Sense of Self 00:19:30 Can a Narcissist Actually Change? 00:21:26 How to Stop Blaming Yourself and Set Boundaries 00:24:36 The Biggest Myths About Narcissism 00:26:12 Healthy Ego vs. Narcissism 00:27:49 When Compassion Becomes Self-Abandonment 00:30:10 “It’s Not You” 00:32:04 Be Their Parent, Not Their Peer 00:35:53 What Dr. Ramani Wants You to Know About Narcissism Follow Rachel here: https://www.instagram.com/doctorramani?stkn=MWcxZXNwdng3YzZteA== Follow Dr. Ramani Durvasula here: https://doctor-ramani.com/

Hwee Keng said: “There is a personality in that small human being... you don’t know the settings. First, I think you need to find out the settings.” As parents, we spend so much energy shaping who we hope our children will become, and perhaps not enough time discovering who they already are. What struck me about Hwee Keng is how much of her parenting has been about unlearning her own expectations. She even caught herself once after feeling disappointed that Max didn’t win a competition, and realised some of that disappointment was about her own ego. That hit me. Because maybe the work is not raising the child we imagined, but learning to really see the child in front of us. In this episode, we talk about curiosity over performance, giving children real agency, the difference between “you’ve got this” and “we’ve got you,” responsibility, consequences, and what it means to raise children who are truly fit for life. Follow CLOSER on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/closerwithrach/ Follow Rachel here: https://www.instagram.com/ms_rach/

Before Shanti Pereira became Singapore's fastest woman, before she made history on some of the world's biggest stages, she was a ten-year-old girl who lost a few races in primary school and wanted to quit. That's where we begin. Not with the medals, but with the moments most people never see. Losing both her scholarships within the same week at 22 and sharing, "It really felt like rejection." Getting injured in an Olympic year after achieving her dream of qualifying for Paris on merit, and wondering if she'd even make it to the start line. The unglamorous discipline of showing up on the days she didn't feel like it at all. What struck me most wasn't Shanti's list of achievements.. it was the way she spoke about identity. About learning not to tie her self-worth to success or failure. About protecting her peace. And about choosing, again and again, not to give up when things get hard. At the end of every season, whether it's been a good one or a difficult one, she asks herself: "Did I show up?" I think that's a question all of us need from time to time. I hope you'll enjoy this conversation with Shanti Pereira. Chapters 00:00:00 Meet Shanti Pereira: The Woman Behind Singapore’s Fastest Sprint 00:01:20 Growing Up in the Shadow of Track and Field 00:03:46 The Childhood Lesson That Changed Everything 00:05:27 Grounded Advice For Her Younger Self 00:06:54 Facing Rejection: Losing Two Scholarships in a Single Week 00:09:14 Defying Failure and Choosing Resilience 00:12:40 Managing Olympic Dreams Amidst Physical Injuries 00:18:09 Staying Grounded: Body Care, Aging, and Reconnecting With Her "Why" 00:20:23 Choosing Stillness Over Chaos at the Starting Line 00:25:12 Tuning Out Public Pressure to Protect Your Joy 00:27:56 How to Reset Your Mindset After a Bad Race 00:30:48 The Powerful Advice That Stayed With Her 00:31:33 Finding Her Identity Beyond Winning and Losing 00:34:23 The Unseen Work and Human Side of Elite Performance 00:36:17 Choosing Consistency and Building Unshakable Habits 00:37:36 Shanti Pereira’s Definition of a Champion 00:39:19 Inspiring the Next Generation of Athletes 00:40:13 Sacrificing Her 20s: Choosing a Different Path Without Regret 00:41:23 Entering a Milestone Decade and Looking Toward Her Next Era 00:43:35 Shanti Pereira’s Recovery Rituals and Wellness Staples 00:45:18 The Message She Hopes to Leave Behind 00:46:05 Staying True to Herself Beyond the Spotlight 00:46:41 Final Reflections Follow Rachel here: https://www.instagram.com/ms_rach/ Follow Shanti Pereira here: https://www.instagram.com/vshantipereira/

Most people know Ing as the founder of INGU - the skincare brand that sold out 30,000 units in three minutes with zero advertising. The trusted voice who built a community of millions by doing the one thing his industry often punishes: telling the truth. But this conversation isn't really about skincare.. it's about what happens after you build something people believe in. The weight of carrying other people's trust. The loneliness of being misunderstood. The panic attacks that made him think he was dying. The goodbye video he filmed, edited, and still hasn't had the courage to post. For the first time, Ing shares what was happening behind the scenes during one of the biggest seasons of his life, and how it changed the way he thinks about ambition, happiness and success itself. We also talk about the person who answered the phone from a surgery room when Ing thought he was going to die on the floor of a café, and why that relationship ultimately reshaped his definition of what really matters. I left this conversation seeing success a little differently. I hope you do too. Follow Rachel here:  https://www.instagram.com/ms_rach/ Follow Ing here: https://www.instagram.com/ingck/ Follow Ingu Skin here: https://www.instagram.com/inguskin/

You don't need a crisis to enter a new chapter. Sometimes life is moving along just fine. And yet, you find yourself carrying questions you can't quite shake. This conversation feels especially meaningful to me. Three years ago, Bill Burnett helped shape one of the biggest chapters of my life. Today, I'm returning to his work because the questions I'm asking have changed, and I need that space again. Together, we explore why so many of us feel there's "something more," why life was never meant to be a straight line, and how creating the time, space, and structure to think differently can help us navigate what's next with greater clarity, intention, and possibility. If this conversation resonates with you, Bill and I will be hosting a special CLOSER experience in Singapore on 25th July. We'd love for you to join us as we explore what your next chapter could become. Sing up for CLOSER x Bill Burnett here: https://tinyurl.com/5n7dkdrb Follow Rachel here: https://www.instagram.com/ms_rach/ Visit Bill Burnett’s website here: https://designingyour.life/ Read ‘Designing Your Life’ here: https://designingyour.life/books-designing-life-original-book/

Most of us have been taught that the pressure Singaporean parents feel is a mindset problem. That we just need to relax. Stop being so kiasu. The data tells a completely different story. Associate Professor Teo You Yenn spent three years interviewing 92 Singaporean parents across every class background for her new book Unease; and what she found will reframe how you see your own life. Not just parenting. The whole thing. She makes the case that the exhaustion, the anxiety, the feeling that you're doing everything right and still something is off.. none of it is personal. It's structural. And until we understand that distinction, nothing changes. We talked about: Why "kiasu" is not a cultural trait; and what it actually is What it means that most parents describe their child as a problem to solve Why Singapore's falling birth rate isn't a fertility problem - it's a conditions-for-family-life problem The three quiet costs to our society that nobody is talking about What the opposite of unease actually is (it's not ease) What stayed with me long after we stopped recording: the way we're living is shaping who we're becoming. As individuals, as parents, as a society. And we haven't stopped to ask if this is who we want to be. Chapters 00:00:00 Introduction 00:01:36 Meet You Yenn: Exposing the Contradiction of Singaporean Success 00:04:02 Defining “Unease”: The Quiet Struggle of Helplessness in Singapore 00:05:45 Why “Kiasu Mentality” is Too Simple an Excuse 00:07:33 How the System Conditions Singaporeans to Run the Race 00:10:48 The Painful Cost of Losing Agency 00:12:00 Returning to the Original Dream of Prosperity in Singapore 00:14:30 Seeing Our Children Through the Lens of Problems 00:16:49 Reevaluating Our Values Across Class Lines 00:20:48 The Unequal Weight of Motherhood 00:23:42 What Does a “Pro-Family” Society Look Like? 00:25:43 Singapore’s Low TFR: A Fertility Problem or a Family Life Problem? 00:28:01 Singapore’s Obsession with Finding “Top Talents” 00:32:29 Shifting the Narrow Definition of “Family” in Singapore 00:34:17 Writing for a Historian 50 Years from Now 00:36:10 Finding Hope in a Shared Public Resonance 00:39:15 Final Reflections Follow Rachel here: https://www.instagram.com/ms_rach/ Follow You Yenn’s updates here: https://www.instagram.com/ethosbooks/ Purchase ‘Unease: Life in Singapore Families’ here: https://www.ethosbooks.com.sg/products/unease-life-in-singapore-families Write in to the team at [email protected]

Singapore's total fertility rate has hit a historic low. But this conversation was never really about birth rates. It was about what modern life actually feels like for many Singaporeans today. The pressure. The exhaustion. The invisible weight of always having to keep up. And the quiet calculation so many people are running; about whether building a family here is something they can imagine, afford, or want. Minister Indranee Rajah leads Singapore's Marriage and Parenthood Reset. She is also single. And she has no children of her own. In this conversation, we go beyond policy. We talk about: - The invisible mental load women carry that no support system fully removes - ⁠The pressure parents feel before a child is even born - and why it starts earlier than most people realise - ⁠The women who have built lives they genuinely love - and aren't sure they want to give that up - What the public reaction to the word "detour" was really saying - What it means to lead this conversation as a single woman without children - The family she lost - and why their absence shaped her understanding of family itself - Whether modern Singaporean life still feels emotionally sustainable enough to build a family within Chapters 00:00:00 Minister Indranee Rajah: The Minister Tasked With Singapore’s Future 00:02:50 Growing Up Between Two Cultures & Faiths 00:05:59 Her Mother's Greatest Gift 00:06:57 How Her Legal Mindset Shapes Singapore’s Toughest Conversation 00:10:21 Why Singaporeans Are Rejecting the Life Script — Not Family 00:14:36 The Overachievement Culture That Made Good Enough Feel Like Failure 00:17:14 The Growing Pressure of Raising Kids in Singapore 00:21:08 The Invisible Mental Load Women Carry 00:22:31 The Woman Who Hid Her Fertility Treatment From Her Boss 00:23:37 Addressing Singaporean Work Culture & Fertility Stigma 00:29:56 Why Singaporeans Are Choosing Their Quality of Life Over Parenthood 00:32:07 The “Detour” Comment That Sparked Debate 00:35:37 Leading Singapore’s Parenthood Conversation as a Single Woman 00:38:10 Why Baby Bonuses Don’t Apply to Unwed Mothers 00:41:43 Why She's Doing This — Even When Everyone Says It's Impossible 00:44:47 What Makes Her Believe Singapore Can Change Follow Rachel here:  https://www.instagram.com/ms_rach/ Follow Minister Indranee here: https://www.instagram.com/indraneerajah/ Download the FSS fertility workplace support guide here: https://fertilitysupport.sg/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/FSS-workplace-support-guide.pdf Write in to the team at [email protected].

Most of us only start thinking about fertility when something suddenly feels urgent; a doctor’s appointment, a breakup, a birthday, or the quiet realisation that time may not feel as endless as we once thought. In this episode, I sit down with Margaret Wang, CEO of GenPrime and Rhea Fertility, for a deeply honest conversation about fertility, womanhood, pressure, timing, and learning to listen to our bodies before life forces us to. Together, we talk about: why fertility shouldn’t just be a “women’s issue” the invisible emotional load many women quietly carry ⁠egg freezing, aging, and the pressure surrounding motherhood and timelines the questions many of us don’t even know to ask about our own bodies and why so many women still feel alone in this conversation Margaret also opens up personally about navigating egg freezing, heartbreak, societal expectations, and the tension between building a career, building a company, and hoping to one day build a family. Whether fertility feels far away, deeply present, or painfully emotional for you right now, this conversation is an invitation to get curious, ask earlier questions, and feel a little less alone. Chapters 00:00:00 Introduction 00:01:09 Get to Know Margaret Wang: The Woman Reshaping Fertility Care Across Asia 00:04:18 A Holistic Approach to Redefining Fertility Stigma 00:06:12 Egg Freezing: Progress, Freedom and the Gaps We Don’t Talk About 00:08:52 Why Fertility Conversations Still Feel Taboo 00:13:22 Nobody Taught Us How Fertility Actually Works 00:15:51 How to Ask the Right Questions About Fertility 00:19:01 Numerical Age vs Biological Age: Is It Too Late? 00:21:08 Debunking Fertility Myths and Misconceptions 00:23:20 The Personal Cost of Working in Fertility Care 00:25:53 Margaret Wang’s Message to the World 00:27:07 Final Reflections Follow Rachel here:  https://www.instagram.com/ms_rach/ Connect with Margaret here: https://sg.linkedin.com/in/margaretmwang Find out more about Rhea Fertility here: https://www.rheafertility.com/ Write in to the team at [email protected].

Nathania Ong is the first Singaporean to lead both Les Misérables and Hamilton on London’s West End. But before any of that, she was 18, alone in a foreign city, rejected by every drama school she applied to in a single week. This is a story about the years nobody sees.. the flight home after every door closes, and the quiet season where you have to decide: Do I keep going, or do I let this go? In this conversation, Nathania opens up about: the rejections that almost broke her the stage fright she developed after going viral ⁠the best friend who talked her back from the edge and the philosophy that has carried her through every closed door since “Sometimes it’s not no. Sometimes it’s not yet. And what is for you will not pass you by.” Chapters 00:00:00 Introduction 00:01:29 Meet Nathania Ong: From Singapore to the West End 00:02:35 Growing Up in a House Full of Voices 00:07:11 The First Win That Changed Everything 00:10:00 Losing Singing — and Finding Herself Again 00:13:57 Five Rejections in One Week 00:18:00 “I Almost Gave Up” 00:19:47 The Second Chance She Almost Didn’t Take 00:25:55 Her Greatest Triumph Wasn’t Success 00:28:10 What Keeps You Going When Nothing Does 00:29:18 Why Rejection Feels So Personal 00:32:22 Becoming Éponine — And Redefining the Role 00:37:00 When Success Brings Fear 00:38:28 Stage Fright, Anxiety, and Finding Ground Again 00:41:04 Pre-Show Rituals & Becoming the Character 00:42:04 Creating Something Honest for Herself 00:43:33 What She’d Tell Her Younger Self 00:45:11 Advice for Anyone Chasing a Dream 00:45:38 Final Reflections Follow Rachel here:  https://www.instagram.com/ms_rach/ Follow Nathania Ong here: https://www.instagram.com/nattyong/ Write in to the team at [email protected].

“I did not know what I wanted to do. But I knew the kind of woman I wanted to be.” Diane von Furstenberg’s mother survived Auschwitz at 29 kilos. Doctors said she would die in childbirth, that her child would not be normal. The following December, Diane was born. In this conversation, DVF takes us through the moments that shaped her: the principles her mother gave her that she never let go of, the little dress that became a flag of freedom, the empire she built, lost, and rebuilt, and the philosophy of life she has arrived at after 79 years. We talk about: How to stay whole across love, ambition, and motherhood Why kindness is a currency that compounds What it means to own who you are; not perform it Aging as living, not losing The one relationship we cannot afford to lose This is not a conversation about fashion. It’s a conversation about what it means to be in charge of your own life. Chapters 00:00:00 Introduction 00:01:24 Diane von Furstenberg: Born a “Torch of Freedom” 00:03:53 The Childhood That Shaped Everything 00:05:11 The Little Dress That Changed Her Life 00:06:14 Finding Her Door to Success in New York 00:08:20 Making 25,000 Dresses By 27 00:09:27 The Fall & Reinvention of DVF 00:11:03 Taking Back and Owning Her Legacy 00:12:12 Diane’s Most Important Advice to Women — Don’t Lose Yourself 00:14:02 Breaking the Fear of Aging in Women 00:14:56 Choosing 3 Words That Defines Her Year 00:16:11 Diane von Furstenberg’s Message to the World 00:17:13 Discovering The Power of Self & Kindness: Currency That Compounds 00:20:34 Embracing Her Winter Season in Life Follow Rachel here:  https://www.instagram.com/ms_rach/ Follow Diane von Furstenberg here: https://www.instagram.com/therealdvf/ Purchase ‘Own It: The Secret to Life’ by Diane von Furstenberg here: https://www.amazon.sg/Own-Secret-Diane-von-Furstenberg/dp/B0BGN66CK4 Write in to the team at [email protected].

Jennifer Baile is the Vice President of Global Services & Solutions at HP; one of the world's most recognised technology companies. But what drew me to her wasn't the title or the résumé. It was the quiet steadiness underneath it all. Four weeks after moving her entire life to Singapore, her role was eliminated. She had 450 people depending on her. And instead of panicking, she did something that changed the trajectory of everything that came after. In this episode, Jennifer and I talk about: What it actually means to lead when certainty is unavailable and the data is incomplete Why she stopped trying to do it all — and what she outsourced instead The mindset that turned job loss into a better role How to ask for help without feeling like a failure What titles, status and success actually mean once you've had enough of them Raising four children to know they are enough in a world that constantly tells them otherwise The dinner table ritual she started when her girls were small - and why it changed everything This is a conversation about the long game. About trading titles for purpose. About what age, experience and a few very good mentors can clarify in you over time. If you're navigating a hard season — professionally or personally — this one is for you. Chapters 00:00:00 Introduction 00:01:12 Meet Jennifer Baile: A Leader with an Unlikely Career Path 00:02:25 Learning to Sit in the Storm 00:04:47 Unlocking the Courage to Ask for Help 00:06:10 How to Lead Without Certainty 00:11:58 What People Get Wrong About Leadership 00:14:18 How to Steward Strong Business Mentorships 00:18:04 Redefining Success After 30 Years in Business 00:19:38 Growing a Family Amid Heavy Responsibilities 00:23:02 Dealing with Mom Guilt and Not “Doing It All” 00:26:09 Raising Confident Daughters in a Social Media World 00:31:17 You’re Only as Happy as Your Unhappiest Child 00:32:50 Strengthening Your Marriage After Having Kids 00:34:52 The Message Jennifer Baile Hopes to Leave Behind Follow Rachel here:  https://www.instagram.com/ms_rach/ Connect with Jennifer Baile here: https://sg.linkedin.com/in/jenbaile Write in to the team at [email protected].

Tan Kheng Hua is one of Singapore’s most beloved actors; known for Phua Chu Kang, Crazy Rich Asians, and three seasons of Kung Fu on The CW. She has spent a lifetime choosing herself, not selfishly, but deliberately. And in doing so, she became a better mother, a better artist, and a more grounded human being. She did not build a long and remarkable career by chasing what looked good or what felt safe. She built it by returning, again and again, to what felt true. To joy over ego. To interest over image. To a life she did not have to shrink in order to hold. In this episode, Kheng Hua speaks with striking honesty about what it really takes to stay rooted in your craft, your relationships, and yourself. We spoke about: motherhood, and why she refused to let it shrink her life. ⁠the decision-making rule she has followed for decades that gave her her longevity. ⁠divorce, co-parenting, and how a friendship outlasted a marriage. ⁠the honesty cave: going inward, admitting the ugly feelings first, and choosing the next step from truth rather than fear. ⁠therapy, and why she believes gathering the tools to be better is not optional, but a responsibility to everyone who loves you. This is a conversation about living from the inside out. About following joy over ego. About learning that being responsible and being happy are not opposites after all. Chapters 00:00:00 Introduction 00:01:34 The Childhood That Quietly Shaped Everything 00:06:50 What Her 25-Year-Old Self Would Never Have Predicted 00:10:32 Why She Treated Her Daughter Like a Person, Not a Project 00:16:12 "My Purpose Was Never Just For Her" 00:22:25 The Secret to Co-Parenting With Someone You Divorced After 27 Years 00:27:16 The 8am Class Nobody Wanted That Changed Her Life 00:35:12 The One Habit Behind 30 Years of Staying Power 00:36:29 Her Golden Rule for Choosing Every Project 00:40:13 11 Years, One Family, One Stage — Inside Phua Chu Kang 00:42:10 What Crazy Rich Asians Taught Her About Letting Go 00:48:22 The Honesty Cave — How She Faces Every Hard Moment 00:49:56 Why She'd Rather Call Her Therapist Than Her Best Friend 00:54:10 Be Better. Do Better. Live Guided By How You Want to Die. 00:56:54 What Kheng Hua Wants You to Know If You're Still Finding Your Way Follow Rachel here:  https://www.instagram.com/ms_rach/ Follow Kheng Hua here: https://www.instagram.com/khenghua/ Write in to the team at [email protected].

What does a trial lawyer — someone trained to win arguments — learn about love, emotional regulation, and parenting? In this episode, Jefferson Fisher shares the courtroom lessons that completely changed how he sees conflict, persuasion, and connection. We explore: ⁠The hidden cost of winning arguments What people are really fighting for beneath the surface How to regulate yourself before you react The breathing technique Jefferson teaches his clients — and his kids The 3 steps to shifting someone’s perspective with empathy Why he lets his children argue — and what that builds in them How to model repair, humility, and recovery at home And why being a safe space matters more than being right This conversation goes beyond communication tips. It’s about security, ego, humility, and choosing kindness.. especially when it’s hard. If you’ve ever walked away from a conversation wishing you handled it differently, this episode will stay with you. Chapters 00:00:00 Introduction 00:01:07 Meet Jefferson Fisher: From Trial Lawyer to Communication Coach 00:03:14 The Cost of Winning an Argument 00:04:44 A Technique That Turns Timidness Into Calm Confidence 00:08:02 Jefferson’s Biggest Lessons From the Courtroom 00:11:22 3 Steps to Changing Someone’s Mind 00:14:47 Thinking Like a Lawyer in Everyday Conversations 00:17:39 Parenting With Humility: Modelling Recovery 00:19:29 Becoming a Safe Space for Your Children 00:22:24 Why Jefferson Fisher Allows His Children to Argue 00:26:21 What People Are Really Fighting For Beneath Arguments 00:29:37 How to Stay Grounded When Triggered 00:36:03 The Message Jefferson Fisher Hopes to Leave Behind Follow Rachel here:  https://www.instagram.com/ms_rach/ Follow Jefferson Fisher here: https://www.instagram.com/jefferson_fisher/ Purchase ‘The Next Conversation: Argue Less, Talk More’ here: https://singapore.kinokuniya.com/bw/9780241719886 Write in to the team at [email protected]