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Got something to say to this podcast? Send a voicemail, and you might hear yourself on the next episode! Danaan is a Pro Climbing League (PCL) co-founder and they just released pre-sale tickets for the 2027 season. In this episode, we’ll hear about the goal of PCL, learn how they financed the huge prize pool, get responses to some of the biggest critiques of their first London comp, and we’ll talk about how comp climbing is ethical climbing. Guest links: PCL Website/Presale Tickets Instagram Reference links: Qualifiers Information Thank you Mad Rock for sponsoring this episode! Use code 'notrealclimber' for 10% off your ENTIRE order, even if you're a returning customer! https://madrock.com/ Learn more about the podcast at www.thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast.com Follow on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast Join the FREE community in Discord! https://discord.gg/QTa668g8zp Join Patreon for a welcome gift, deleted scenes, and question priority: www.patreon.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast Timestamps of discussion topics 0:00 - Intro 1:13 - Mad Rock Shoutout!! 2:03 - Athlete house at boulder fest 6:22 - The birth of PCL 13:22 - All the people who made PCL possible 17:52 - They're already setting for PCL now... 21:05 - The Goal of PCL 24:03 - How to make climbing into a career 28:06 - How do you afford PCL? 32:30 - Criticism 1: Speed bouldering? 39:04 - Nobody cares about climbing, it's about competition 47:32 - Criticism 2: No seeding round streamed? 50:38 - Critique 3: Was there too much athlete interview? 52:40 - 2027 season format 59:26 - Ideal schedule 1:02:55 - Comp climbing is ethical climbing?? 1:13:42 - AUDIENCE Q: Plans for non-boulder formats? 1:15:54 - AUDIENCE Q: Thoughts on not seeing a slower climber excel in this format? 1:16:31 - AUDIENCE Q: Any restrictions from World Climbing on PCL? 1:17:40 - AUDIENCE Q: Geriatrics PCL?? 1:19:13 - Important comp dates!

Got something to say to this podcast? Send a voicemail, and you might hear yourself on the next episode! Charlie is the founder of Paradigm Climbing and he has been coaching climbing athletes from the beginner to elite level for over 17 years. In this episode, we’ll hear about a suspicious supplement sponsorship he had when he was a kid, what his world cup experience was like back in the day, why he thinks competition climbing has turned way too much into not real climbing, and of course everything coaching related. Guest links: Paradigm Climbing Website Instagram Youtube Reference links: Thank you Mad Rock for sponsoring this episode! Use code 'notrealclimber' for 10% off your ENTIRE order, even if you're a returning customer! https://madrock.com/ Learn more about the podcast at www.thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast.com Follow on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast Join the FREE community in Discord! https://discord.gg/QTa668g8zp Join Patreon for a welcome gift, deleted scenes, and question priority: www.patreon.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast Timestamps of discussion topics 0:00 - Intro 1:27 - Mad Rock Shoutout!! 2:18 - Insane schedule 7:02 - Getting into climbing, competing, and coaching 11:31 - Sketchy sugar daddy athlete sponsorship?? 17:05 - How he would coach his younger self 22:10 - Strengths and weaknesses 26:57 - His experience competing at world cups 36:14 - Coaching goals 38:21 - How personalized does coaching need to be? 52:09 - How to learn movement 55:05 - The importance of spray wall 1:06:18 - AUDIENCE Q: How to improve as a coach? 1:08:48 - World Climbing Setting is too far gone? 1:16:58 - What the US is doing wrong with training 1:22:52 - AUDIENCE Q: Can you tell when a kid will be a v17 climber? 1:27:43 - AUDIENCE Q: Fingerboarding vs board climbing? 1:29:24 - AUDIENCE Q: How to train big dynes? 1:32:09 - AUDIENCE Q: Dream clients? 1:35:14 - Words of wisdom and where to find Charlie

Got something to say to this podcast? Send a voicemail, and you might hear yourself on the next episode! Ardch is a boulderer for the Thailand team, and he has made semis several times in World Climbing. In this episode, we’ll hear why he thinks climbing is performative in Thailand, why it’s hard to grow climbing as a spectator sport, and we’ll talk about where we draw the line on setting that is too trendy. Hope you’re ready for some hot takes and strong opinions in this one! Guest links: Ardch's Instagram Reference links: PCL Bouldering Project Qualifiers Thank you Mad Rock for sponsoring this episode! Use code 'notrealclimber' for 10% off your ENTIRE order, even if you're a returning customer! https://madrock.com/ Learn more about the podcast at www.thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast.com Follow on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast Join the FREE community in Discord! https://discord.gg/QTa668g8zp Join Patreon for a welcome gift, deleted scenes, and question priority: www.patreon.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast Timestamps of discussion topics 0:00 - Intro 1:16 - Mad Rock Shoutout!! 2:07 - Winning Seattle Boulderfest + PCL 9:31 - Moving to the US, getting into climbing 15:47 - Performative climbing in Thailand? 25:49 - Lack of World Climbing level Thai climbers 33:15 - Should it become a D1 sport in the USA? 39:13 - How to grow climbing 47:39 - Goodbye dirtbags 51:03 - Outdoor paddle dynos 58:20 - What climbing trend goes TOO FAR? 1:03:15 - What does it take to make semis and finals in world climbing? 1:12:29 - Salt Lake City and Mental Pressure 1:15:05 - Why is the mens field so unpredictable? 1:20:43 - AUDIENCE Q: Wow factor to making finals? 1:25:42 - Glazing Sorato 1:28:38 - AUDIENCE Q: Most underdeveloped part of climbing? 1:31:27 - Words of wisdom and where to find Arch

Got something to say to this podcast? Send a voicemail, and you might hear yourself on the next episode! Bharath and Vishak are climbers from team India who now have experience at several world series events. In this episode, we’ll hear about the unique challenges they face climbing and training in India, some crazy stories about the worst bouldering nationals ever, why they think the average age for comp climbing will get older, and how they aim to grow climbing in India by routesetting and making climbing shoes. Guest links: Bharath's Instagram Vishak's Instagram Reference links: Thank you Mad Rock for sponsoring this episode! Use code 'notrealclimber' for 10% off your ENTIRE order, even if you're a returning customer! https://madrock.com/ Learn more about the podcast at www.thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast.com Follow on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast Join the FREE community in Discord! https://discord.gg/QTa668g8zp Join Patreon for a welcome gift, deleted scenes, and question priority: www.patreon.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast Timestamps of discussion topics 0:00 - Intro 1:28 - Mad Rock Shoutout!! 2:19 - Training in Japan 7:01 - Getting into climbing and competing 15:10 - India climbing scene then vs now 16:57 - The state of setting in India 23:36 - The worst comp EVER 28:31 - Outdoor climbing in India 30:11 - What happens in World Climbing ISO 36:11 - Best tips from pro climbers 40:47 - Give Bharath some skin advice please! 44:00 - Team dynamics in ISO 47:21 - Crazy coaching practices in India 52:34 - Will comp climbing stop being so young?? 1:00:54 - New school moves and coordination rock climbs?! 1:03:10 - Making climbing shoes 1:09:35 - Balancing training and setting 1:13:08 - Asia cup goal 1:17:57 - AUDIENCE Q: What do you wish you knew before you started? 1:21:37 - AUDIENCE Q: Dealing with plateaus and injury? 1:24:11 - AUDIENCE Q: Getting through tenosynovitis? 1:26:48 - AUDIENCE Q: What is your inspiration to keep going? 1:29:16 - AUDIENCE Q: Plans for a Youtube channel? 1:31:38 - AUDIENCE Q: Sneaking out of boarding school? 1:33:48 - Words of wisdom 1:39:37 - Where to find Bharath and Vishak

Got something to say to this podcast? Send a voicemail, and you might hear yourself on the next episode! Lučka is a lead climber from Slovenia who recently won bronze at the European championships and came back to the world climbing scene after undergoing cancer-removing surgery in 2025. In this episode, we’ll hear about how her cancer diagnosis affected her climbing, training, and mental health, we’ll learn about the Slovenian team, and we’ll put together a tier list for the worst things that can happen in a lead comp. Guest links: Lucka's Instagram Reference links: Thank you Mad Rock for sponsoring this episode! Use code 'notrealclimber' for 10% off your ENTIRE order, even if you're a returning customer! https://madrock.com/ Learn more about the podcast at www.thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast.com Follow on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast Join the FREE community in Discord! https://discord.gg/QTa668g8zp Join Patreon for a welcome gift, deleted scenes, and question priority: www.patreon.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast Timestamps of discussion topics 0:00 - Intro 1:29 - Mad Rock Shoutout!! 2:24 - Finger injury before European champs 5:54 - Getting into climbing and competing 11:11 - Reading and memorizing the lead route 15:38 - Ranking the worst things to happen during a lead route 20:02 - Training plan 22:11 - Thyroid cancer diagnosis + emetaphobia 31:20 - How long it took to return to climbing 35:50 - The mental effect of returning to competition 38:56 - Does the Slovenian team train with Janja? 42:53 - Dating within the team 45:50 - 2028 Olympic hopes? 47:58 - Post-climbing plans? 53:12 - Future dog plans 56:53 - AUDIENCE Q: Are you afraid of falling? 1:00:15 - AUDIENCE Q: Previous Slovenian legends? 1:01:36 - AUDIENCE Q: How many routes and what difficulty in 1 session? 1:05:53 - Where to find Lucka

Got something to say to this podcast? Send a voicemail, and you might hear yourself on the next episode! Ella is a lead climber on team USA who made her first world series finals earlier this year in Prague! In this episode, we’ll learn about how she climbs the same lead routes all year round to train in Arizona, why she doesn’t want to move to Salt Lake City despite that, how a simple vitamin deficiency wrecked her body for a whole year, and how she went from placing 40th in world cups to making semis and finals in 1 year. Guest links: Ella's Instagram Reference links: Check out https://comp.rocks for climbing competitions near you! (Currently USA only) Thank you Mad Rock for sponsoring this episode! Use code 'notrealclimber' for 10% off your ENTIRE order, even if you're a returning customer! https://madrock.com/ Learn more about the podcast at www.thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast.com Follow on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast Join the FREE community in Discord! https://discord.gg/QTa668g8zp Join Patreon for a welcome gift, deleted scenes, and question priority: www.patreon.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast Timestamps of discussion topics 0:00 - Intro 1:42 - Mad Rock Shoutout!! 2:33 - Preparing for Koper 10:36 - Starting climbing at 3 14:03 - Getting coached by her dad 20:09 - Fitness is all that matters for lead? 24:42 - Why she doesn't want to move to SLC 30:14 - Beta video before lead quails!!! 34:36 - Seeing a dyno in a lead route 35:58 - First WS finals experience 41:33 - 40th place to making finals in 1 year 44:38 - Training routine 49:52 - Ella LOVES autobelays! 57:13 - Youth climbers don't need to hang board 59:41 - A year of health issues 1:10:08 - Upcoming goals 1:13:25 - Balancing training with coaching and college 1:19:40 - AUDIENCE Q: How do you deal with pressure? 1:21:46 - AUDIENCE Q: Do you do fantasy climbing league? 1:22:58 - AUDIENCE Q: Would you ever go back to Schwandorf? 1:29:33 - Where to find Ella

Got something to say to this podcast? Send a voicemail, and you might hear yourself on the next episode! Robby is a speed climber from Indonesia who has already gotten 2 silver medals in the world series season this year! In this episode, we’ll learn about the climbing scene in Indonesia, speed climbing rituals and whether they’re actually helpful, we’ll hear this thoughts on the 4 lane and speed relay formats, and we’ll get insight into how he got so good at speed climbing after only training it consistently for 3 years. Guest links: Robby's Instagram Reference links: Robby's favorite speed moment - Sam's WR Thank you Mad Rock for sponsoring this episode! Use code 'notrealclimber' for 10% off your ENTIRE order, even if you're a returning customer! https://madrock.com/ Learn more about the podcast at www.thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast.com Follow on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast Join the FREE community in Discord! https://discord.gg/QTa668g8zp Join Patreon for a welcome gift, deleted scenes, and question priority: www.patreon.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast Timestamps of discussion topics 0:00 - Intro 1:37 - Mad Rock Shoutout!! 2:28 - Getting medals in Europe 3:51 - Only been seriously speed training for 3 years?! 10:33 - Breaking plateaus 15:26 - Ritual before each speed run 21:15 - What's more important: Speed or consistency? 22:58 - What speed training looks like 28:57 - Opinion on relay format 31:40 - How team selection works 37:23 - The surprises that come with 4 lanes 39:27 - Indonesia climbing scene 45:44 - 2027 goals and lessons from Sam Watson + Zhao Yicheng 51:17 - Olympic dreams 52:15 - Hobbies and studying 53:39 - AUDIENCE Q: How do you handle burnout? 56:57 - AUDIENCE Q: How did you improve so fast? 59:11 - AUDIENCE Q: Do you breathe during a speed run? 1:00:21 - AUDIENCE Q: Do you train other sports? 1:01:30 - AUDIENCE Q: Describe your previous coach? 1:03:48 - Where to find Robby

Got something to say to this podcast? Send a voicemail, and you might hear yourself on the next episode! Meagan Knecht and C Lad are both level 5 belayers in the USA who are also helping out with belay training videos for World Climbing. In this episode, we’ll debunk the myth that women can’t belay men or heavier climbers, we’ll learn about the problems with Assisted Braking Device (ABD)requirements in gyms, and of course, we'll talk about how to get into high level belaying and how they became SPONSORED belayers thanks to Trango. Guest links: USA Belay Instagram C Lad's Instagram Meagan's Instagram USA Belay YouTube Reference links: Wujiang 2025 Belayer Aiding Climber Thank you Mad Rock for sponsoring this episode! Use code 'notrealclimber' for 10% off your ENTIRE order, even if you're a returning customer! https://madrock.com/ Learn more about the podcast at www.thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast.com Follow on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast Join the FREE community in Discord! https://discord.gg/QTa668g8zp Join Patreon for a welcome gift, deleted scenes, and question priority: www.patreon.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast Timestamps of discussion topics 0:00 - Intro 1:29 - Mad Rock Shoutout!! 2:19 - Excitement for Pan-American series 4:21 - Getting into climbing and belaying 14:02 - AUDIENCE Q: Difference between an avg vs elite belayer? 20:26 - Work that allows the flexibility for travel 22:48 - How to get into belaying at a high level 27:43 - Setting the standard for World Climbing 34:36 - ATC vs ABDs in gyms 39:06 - The belayer's unique pivotal role 43:41 - Snugroping? 45:28 - Athlete interactions 48:00 - Dual-belay system 52:44 - Is it too late to become an Olympics belayer? 56:42 - Being sponsored as belayers 1:01:54 - Why is belaying para the best? 1:08:46 - Routesetting that makes belaying harder 1:14:25 - AUDIENCE Q: What's it like to walk up to an Olympian and belay them? 1:16:59 - AUDIENCE Q: Favorite venue to belay at? 1:18:33 - Where to find the beladies and words of wisdom

Got something to say to this podcast? Send a voicemail, and you might hear yourself on the next episode! Max is a World Climbing routesetter from Great Britain who most recently set for the bouldering world series in Bern 2026 and will be setting for Salt Lake in October as well. In this episode, we’ll learn about hold shaping, what happened when the Bern finals boulders got leaked early online, whether world cup routesetters can actually climb the boulders they set, and we’ll hear about his extremely hot take on “alternative” climbing moves...I had no idea that he was the infamous cartwheel boulder setter. Guest links: Max's Instagram Reference links: Bern Women's M3 CWIF Cartwheel Boulder Thank you Mad Rock for sponsoring this episode! Use code 'notrealclimber' for 10% off your ENTIRE order, even if you're a returning customer! https://madrock.com/ Learn more about the podcast at www.thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast.com Follow on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast Join the FREE community in Discord! https://discord.gg/QTa668g8zp Join Patreon for a welcome gift, deleted scenes, and question priority: www.patreon.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast Timestamps of discussion topics 0:00 - Intro 1:21 - Mad Rock Shoutout!! 2:28 - Climbing, competing, setting background 7:00 - World climbing setting levels 10:44 - Bern Finals boulders got leaked 15:24 - AUDIENCE Q: Is it easier setting in a climate-controlled venue? 18:24 - What is the perfect round? 22:02 - AUDIENCE Q: What guidance does world climbing give for setters? 24:19 - Forerunning process 29:26 - Setting "unconventional" moves 34:46 - OMG!! This is the OG cartwheel guy!! 38:00 - The divergence of indoor/comp climbing from outdoors 42:34 - Zones vs tops point change 44:53 - Starting Contact Holds with Alex Waterhouse 52:55 - AUDIENCE Q: What's Alex Waterhouse up to?! 54:26 - AUDIENCE Q: Is there any consideration for the belayer when setting? 59:21 - AUDIENCE Q: Planning vs improvising problems? 1:00:45 - AUDIENCE Q: Will the Christmas Yule log comp be on this year? 1:02:29 - AUDIENCE Q: Favorite member of house 51? 1:03:21 - Words of wisdom and where to find Max

Got something to say to this podcast? Send a voicemail, and you might hear yourself on the next episode! Sam is an 18 year old French boulderer who just recently won bronze at the 2026 Madrid world climbing series. You may also know him as the youngest person to ever do v17. In this episode, we’ll get insight into the world of new school climbing, how regimented routines and being locked in could push climbing further than ever before, and how he may want to just give up climbing one day. Guest links: Sam’s Youtube Sam’s Instagram Reference links: Thank you Mad Rock for sponsoring this episode! Use code 'notrealclimber' for 10% off your ENTIRE order, even if you're a returning customer! https://madrock.com/ Learn more about the podcast at www.thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast.com Follow on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast Join the FREE community in Discord! https://discord.gg/QTa668g8zp Join Patreon for a welcome gift, deleted scenes, and question priority: www.patreon.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast Timestamps of discussion topics 0:00 - Intro 1:26 - Mad Rock Shoutout!! 2:17 - Reflecting on Madrid World Series 6:40 - Can you see results in ISO? 9:31 - Starting climbing at age 2 12:46 - Climbing strengths and weaknesses 16:17 - Fearlessness for new school climbing 22:05 - French team training and powering out 24:30 - French Team Selection 29:36 - Qualis is the most physical round 31:37 - "Sam Richard" as a persona 35:19 - Getting energy from the audience 38:41 - Climbing journal 43:49 - Hot take: outdoor climbing is better than indoor? 51:35 - Youngest person to climb v17? 53:08 - Climbing optimization 57:13 - Quitting climbing for running... 1:01:39 - AUDIENCE Q: How's the transition from youth to senior? 1:05:13 - AUDIENCE Q: How to hype yourself up? 1:07:05 - AUDIENCE Q: How's the bromance between you, Mejdi, and Manu? 1:10:05 - Words of widsom and where to find Sam

Got something to say to this podcast? Send a voicemail, and you might hear yourself on the next episode! Andy is a climbing PT and this is his second time on the podcast. This time, he’s here with new research to talk about why youth climbers are maybe overdoing it with the climbing training, what early arthritis looks like, and the surprising dangers of outdoor climbing when it comes to competition climbers. Guest links: Website Instagram Reference links: Thank you Mad Rock for sponsoring this episode! Use code 'notrealclimber' for 10% off your ENTIRE order, even if you're a returning customer! https://madrock.com/ Learn more about the podcast at www.thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast.com Follow on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast Join the FREE community in Discord! https://discord.gg/QTa668g8zp Join Patreon for a welcome gift, deleted scenes, and question priority: www.patreon.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast Timestamps of discussion topics 0:00 - Intro 1:05 - Mad Rock Shoutout!! 1:45 - Spain trip and watching PCL 4:44 - Getting into climbing and PT 8:00 - Youth getting into competing more? 9:10 - Are youth climber overtraining? 11:28 - Outcome of growth plate fractures 16:43 - Youth Climbers very rarely get injured 21:28 - Youth climbers should not specialize in climbing 32:03 - What does arthritis look like? 37:00 - Is synovitis a sign of future arthritis? 38:55 - Injuries are actually coming from outdoor climbing.... 46:32 - Max Milne's Foot Injury 49:53 - Are injury rates increasing within comp climbers? 52:53 - AUDIENCE Q: Common adult injuries breaking into the comp scene? 59:48 - AUDIENCE Q: Can you even climb with hyper mobility? 1:06:54 - Words of wisdom and where to find Andy

Got something to say to this podcast? Send a voicemail, and you might hear yourself on the next episode! You likely know Emil from being one of the OG climbing Youtubers who has also competed in a few world cups for Sweden. With his brother, Felix, they have started a new Fantasy Climbing League platform! In this episode, we’ll learn about how the Fantasy Climbing League works, how they feel about sports gambling in climbing, who their top picks are for their teams, and their predictions for all things competition. Guest links: Fantasy Climbing League Site Emil’s Youtube Felix’s Instagram Emil’s Instagram Reference links: Boardclimbs App Thank you Mad Rock for sponsoring this episode! Use code 'notrealclimber' for 10% off your ENTIRE order, even if you're a returning customer! https://madrock.com/ Learn more about the podcast at www.thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast.com Follow on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast Join the FREE community in Discord! https://discord.gg/QTa668g8zp Join Patreon for a welcome gift, deleted scenes, and question priority: www.patreon.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast Timestamps of discussion topics 0:00 - Intro 1:21 - Mad Rock Shoutout!! 2:01 - Living in Arco 5:22 - Starting climbing and competing 14:26 - Existential AI talk 17:14 - Fantasy Climbing League overview 21:10 - They've never played fantasy sports before!! 22:47 - Drafting strategy 25:37 - Are fantasy leagues gambling-adjacent?? 33:36 - Top picks of the season 42:07 - Are injury comebacks good picks? 45:13 - Janja vs Ai debate 52:26 - Will Tomoa have a downfall?! 1:00:03 - Tomoa v Meichi? 1:02:37 - AUDIENCE Q: What style of comp climbing would change the results the most? 1:10:21 - AUDIENCE Q: What will the future of comp climbing look like? 1:13:38 - AUDIENCE Q: What expectations should a comp beginner have? 1:18:04 - AUDIENCE Q: What's your favorite WoW dungeon? 1:19:05 - Join Fantasy Climbing League ASAP!!!

Got something to say to this podcast? Send a voicemail, and you might hear yourself on the next episode! Sam is a French boulder and lead climber who has medals from several world cups and competed alongside his sister, Zelia at the Paris Olympics! In this episode, we’ll learn more about what it’s like growing up in a climbing family, tips for climbing as a short king, why he struggled in the 2025 season, and how he self-coaches. Guest links: Sam’s Instagram Guitar Instagram Reference links: Thank you Mad Rock for sponsoring this episode! Use code 'notrealclimber' for 10% off your ENTIRE order, even if you're a returning customer! https://madrock.com/ Learn more about the podcast at www.thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast.com Follow on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast Join the FREE community in Discord! https://discord.gg/QTa668g8zp Join Patreon for a welcome gift, deleted scenes, and question priority: www.patreon.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast Timestamps of discussion topics 0:00 - Intro 1:24 - Mad Rock Shoutout!! 2:34 - His mother still competing at 42 years old 7:45 - Getting into climbing and competing 9:31 - AUDIENCE Q: Did growing up in a climbing family add pressure? 12:52 - Struggling between youth and senior circuits 16:51 - Rough 2025 season 22:53 - 2028 Olympics strategy 26:37 - Being a short king 31:34 - AUDIENCE Q: Tips for short kings? 35:41 - Training with the French team 37:51 - AUDIENCE Q: how do you self coach? 41:21 - Training only with climbing 45:21 - Gyms worth visiting in Paris 47:05 - Secrets to French slab 51:37 - AUDIENCE Q: What are you thinking about when climbing? 56:06 - Mental game 58:41 - 2026 goals 1:01:22 - AUDIENCE Q: Playing guitar? 1:04:58 - AUDIENCE Q: Can you make a living climbing? 1:08:40 - AUDIENCE Q: How to gain finger strength? 1:12:23 - AUDIENCE Q: Recovery routine? 1:15:56 - Where to find Sam

Got something to say to this podcast? Send a voicemail, and you might hear yourself on the next episode! Jackie was the routesetting director at the Pro Climbing League (PCL) comp and is also the co-founder of Kilter! In this episode, we’ll learn more about the unique challenges that came with setting for PCL, why she thinks it’s important to have more women setting for women’s comps, and how YOU could maybe try climbing the same exact boulders set at PCL. Guest links: Kiter’s Website Jackie’s Instagram Pro Climbing League Website Kilter Youtube Reference links: Underrated hold Thank you Mad Rock for sponsoring this episode! Use code 'notrealclimber' for 10% off your ENTIRE order, even if you're a returning customer! https://madrock.com/ Learn more about the podcast at www.thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast.com Follow on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast Join the FREE community in Discord! https://discord.gg/QTa668g8zp Join Patreon for a welcome gift, deleted scenes, and question priority: www.patreon.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast Timestamps of discussion topics 0:00 - Intro 1:20 - Mad Rock Shoutout!! 2:00 - Still cleaning up from PCL 5:42 - Interesting Kilter free-standing option 7:34 - Getting into climbing, setting, and Kilter 13:38 - The political path to becoming an IFSC setter 15:34 - Starting the Woman Up Comps 20:00 - What grade do you need to climb to be a route setter? 22:31 - AUDIENCE Q: How did you build the PCL routesetting team? 28:46 - What made setting different for PCL 32:09 - How to get separation 36:30 - AUDIENCE Q: Was this speed bouldering, was women's setting too easy? 41:57 - Is sanding down holds fair?! 43:47 - Why it's hard to calibrate for female competitors 51:16 - How boulder changeover worked 55:37 - The slab that didn't get shown 58:24 - Different competition strategies 1:03:27 - AUDIENCE Q: Harder to gauge setting than World Cup? 1:04:18 - AUDIENCE Q: Did the setting matter more than a World Cup? 1:07:04 - AUDIENCE Q: Mixed gender events in the future? 1:09:13 - AUDIENCE Q: idea - 2 betas per boulder? 1:11:12 - AUDIENCE Q: Are setters more impressed or annoyed by beta breaks? 1:17:23 - AUDIENCE Q: What makes Kilter stand out? 1:22:30 - Underrated hold? 1:25:02 - Shoutouts and long work hours 1:26:51 - YOU can reset the PCL climbs and experience them!

Got something to say to this podcast? Send a voicemail, and you might hear yourself on the next episode! Mickael is a french boulderer and he is the bouldering world champ from Bern 2023. In this episode, we have an extremely honest conversation about how growing up poor motivated him to make money as a climber, why he stuck with climbing despite the lack of financial prospects, what his training looks like which includes warming up with 80 pull-ups, and of course, what happened during the Bern world champ finals. Shoutout to Madrock for hosting this interview at their headquarters! Guest links: Mickael’s Instagram Reference links: Climbing with Jonathan Sin Video Thank you Mad Rock for sponsoring this episode! Use code 'notrealclimber' for 10% off your ENTIRE order, even if you're a returning customer! https://madrock.com/ Learn more about the podcast at www.thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast.com Follow on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast Join the FREE community in Discord! https://discord.gg/QTa668g8zp Join Patreon for a welcome gift, deleted scenes, and question priority: www.patreon.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast Timestamps of discussion topics Timestamps of discussion topics 0:00 - Intro 1:30 - Mad Rock Shoutout!! 3:46 - Starting climbing with his brother Bassa 7:45 - AUDIENCE Q: Being one of the few black climbers in the IFSC 13:39 - Affording climbing when growing up poor 24:31 - Pro climbing only pays enough for the present 28:10 - Why he would not choose climbing in hindsight 30:51 - Why he still chose climbing 34:34 - AUDIENCE Q: Will you ever compete again in the IFSC? 38:33 - The goal: be rich 45:25 - Bern World Champs finals boulders 53:26 - Encountering no-tex for the first time ever 1:01:59 - Mickael's crazy pull up training 1:06:12 - How to work on your technique 1:11:47 - The secret to French slab 1:14:28 - Why he trains alone 1:21:59 - Keeping up with the evolution of climbing 1:25:44 - His future in climbing? 1:31:01 - New climbing goal 1:33:38 - AUDIENCE Q: Who were your role models growing up? 1:34:46 - AUDIENCE Q: What's your family like? 1:39:28 - AUDIENCE Q: How to maintain strength without getting injured? 1:44:50 - Where to find Mickael