Advertise on podcast: Just Say No To The DSO

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★★★★★

4.7

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53 reviews

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Dentistry is experiencing an attack by well-funded corporations who want to own the work of each dentist’s hands. While the promises of wealth and ease DSO’s present to owner-dentists appear enticing, experience shows the reality is very different. Just Say No to the DSO is a deep dive podcast for dentists in all stages of their career. It is especially for those who are looking at whether or not the option to sell to a DSO is the right choice. Our expert hosts, Bob Spiel, MBA and Nate Williams, CPA, CFP take listeners on a step by step journey through Season One laying out the realities of selling a practice to a DSO and why this isn't as good as it sounds, or the only option for successful dentists to have a thriving practice. Come and listen for the years of experience inside dentistry, as well as medicine, that have led to their logical arguments and stay for additional audience and listener feedback. Questions you’d like addressed live in future episodes can be sent to: [email protected] Let's start the discussion on how to save the future of the Dental Industry.

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Check latest episodes from Just Say No To The DSO podcast

A Conversation With The Dental Banker Bob Affleck

2026/02/05

In this conversation, Bob Affleck shares his extensive experience in the dental industry, discussing the implications of selling dental practices to DSOs. He highlights the challenges and regrets many dentists face after selling, particularly regarding autonomy and financial expectations. The discussion also covers the importance of leadership and business acumen for young dentists preparing them for practice ownership. Overall, the conversation provides valuable insights into the current state of the dental industry and the future of practice ownership.

Right Up to the Edge and Back with Dr. Blake Maxfield

2026/01/14

Nate sits down with Dr. Blake Maxfield on this amazing interview with a practicing doctor who went through the entire courting and recruitment process where he almost signed the dotted line for a DSO to purchase his practice. At the last minute, something didn't feel right and he backed out. Because he listened to his gut (and his wife) things are infinitely better in his life and current practice is booming.

The Great Disappearing Trick: DSO Equity

2026/01/07

In this episode, hosts Bob and Nate delve into the myths surrounding DSOs, particularly focusing on the allure of DSO equity. They discuss the reality of ownership structures, the dilution of shares, and the potential pitfalls of believing in inflated equity promises. The conversation emphasizes the importance of maintaining control over one's practice and making informed decisions about practice transitions.

When Are You The Partner...Or The One Being Taken Advantage Of With Dr. Maksim Montatskiy

2025/12/10

In this conversation, Dr. Maksim Montatskiy sits down with Bob and Nate to discuss the complexities of partnerships, particularly focusing on the value and decision-making dynamics involved. He expresses concerns about the nature of partnerships where he feels more like a paying associate than an equal partner, questioning the benefits and decision-making power he holds within these collaborations.

Too Big to Sell: Myth vs Reality

2025/11/15

The conversation explores the myth surrounding the belief that dental practices are too large to sell to private buyers. It delves into the origins of this misconception and its impact on the dental community, emphasizing that size should not deter practice owners from considering private buyers.

Practice Transition Advice with Dan and Aaron Lewis

2025/10/30

In this conversation, Nate speaks with Dan and Aaron Lewis about the complexities of dental practice transitions, particularly focusing on the implications of selling to Dental Service Organizations (DSOs). They discuss the emotional aspects of practice transitions, the financial realities of selling to DSOs versus maintaining private practice, and the importance of relationships in the dental industry. The Lewis family emphasizes the need for education and awareness among dentists regarding their options and the potential pitfalls of DSO partnerships.

A Very Important Math Lesson

2025/10/17

Bob and Nate are back to discuss the common misconception that DSOs pay more for dental practices than private buyers and they are bringing receipts. They delve into the concept of EBITDA, explaining its significance in practice valuation and how it impacts the financial outcomes for practice owners. Through a hypothetical example, they illustrate the true costs associated with selling to a DSO, revealing that many dentists may end up paying more than they realize. The conversation emphasizes the importance of understanding the financial implications of selling a practice and encourages dentists to maintain control over their practices.

Season 4 Episode 6 - Listener Question: Practice Transition Walkthrough

2025/09/07

In this episode of 'Just Say No to the DSO', hosts Bob and Nate discuss the complexities of transitioning dental practices, particularly for those with multiple locations. They address listener questions about ownership options, financing, and the importance of goodwill in practice valuation. The conversation emphasizes the need for clear pathways to ownership and the potential pitfalls of seller financing, while also exploring strategies for divesting practices effectively.

Season 4 Episode 5 - The Art of Transitioning Your Dental Practice

2025/08/25

Bob and Nate discuss the complexities of transitioning a dental practice without selling to a DSO. They explore the concept of a walk away sale, addressing common uncertainties and fears among practice owners. The conversation also debunks prevalent myths about the dental market, particularly regarding younger dentists' willingness to own practices and the availability of financing for buyers. The hosts emphasize the importance of hiring qualified brokers and being realistic about expectations during the selling process.

Season 4 Episode 4 - Embracing Uncertainty: The Reality of Dental Practice Transitions

2025/08/16

In this conversation, Bob and Nate discuss the complexities of transitioning a dental practice, particularly focusing on the implications of selling to a DSO versus bringing on an associate. They explore the emotional and financial uncertainties that dentists face when considering their exit strategies, emphasizing the importance of planning and understanding the realities of practice management. The discussion highlights the pros and cons of various transition options, including the challenges of hiring associates and the need for a clear vision of the future of the practice.

Special Episode - You Are The Brand with Steven J Anderson

2025/08/08

In this conversation, Bob Spiel and Steven J Anderson delve into the evolving landscape of dentistry, particularly focusing on the impact of Dental Service Organizations (DSOs) on the profession. They discuss the importance of grounding oneself in key principles before making decisions, the necessity of understanding one's market, and the significance of mastering patient interactions. The conversation emphasizes the need for dentists to surround themselves with the right people, continually improve their leadership skills, and build their personal brand. Additionally, they highlight the value of mastermind groups in fostering growth and decision-making. Ultimately, the discussion advocates for dentists to take control of their practices and careers, resisting the allure of DSOs by embracing their unique value in the healthcare landscape.

Season 4 Episode 3 - The Risks of Selling Your Practice

2025/08/02

In this episode, Bob and Nate discuss the evolving landscape of dental service organizations (DSOs) and the implications for private practice owners. They explore the risks associated with selling to DSOs, the changing nature of DSO offers, and the importance of retaining control over one's practice. The conversation highlights the historical context of DSO contracts, the value of dentists in practice ownership, and the potential pitfalls of partnering with DSOs.

Season 4 Episode 2 - The DSO Dilemma: A Cautionary Tale

2025/07/21

Bob and Nate continue discussing the implications of selling dental practices to Dental Service Organizations (DSOs). They argue that selling to a DSO can lead to financial loss and loss of control for dentists. The conversation highlights the hype surrounding DSOs, the influence of celebrity endorsements, and the pressure tactics used to encourage practice sales. The hosts emphasize the importance of maintaining ownership and the potential pitfalls of selling practices, urging dentists to consider their long-term financial independence. Put down the margaritas, understand your true value and make it work for yourself!

Season 4 Episode 1 - Navigating the Dental Landscape: Ownership vs. DSO

2025/07/16

In this episode of 'Just Say No to the DSO', hosts Bob Spiel and Nate Williams discuss the implications of the DSO movement in dentistry. They emphasize the importance of private practice ownership, the challenges faced by dental practice owners, and the impact of insurance and government intervention on the industry. The conversation highlights the benefits of maintaining control over one's practice and the potential pitfalls of selling to a DSO.

Season 3 Episode 16 - Away Interview With Gary Bird

2025/06/30

Nate ventures out into the wilderness and is guest with Gary Bird for today's episode. This is a collabortive project and highlights the great being done to further the conversation around dentistry and it's future. For those not familiar, Gary Bird is the founding owner of SMC National, the dental industry’s top-rated marketing partner chosen by more than 60,000 dental professionals. A recognized thought leader, Gary hosts the popular shows Dental Marketing Theory and Dental Marketing Goat, where he shares evidence-based strategies that help practices grow revenue, attract high-value patients, and build winning teams. Under his leadership, SMC delivers performance-focused marketing (no restrictive long-term contracts) and data-driven growth maps that turn chaos into predictable results. Want to learn more about SMC? https://bit.ly/4kkRubd

Podcast reviews

Read Just Say No To The DSO podcast reviews

4.7 out of 5

53 reviews

★★★★★

Middle Age Dentist 2025/04/23

Well Done

This is a podcast by dental cpa’s/advisors who care about the profession. This is information you just won’t find everywhere. Certainly Dentists who...

★☆☆☆☆

Concerned DDS 2025/09/18

Concerned DDS

This firm appears to focus primarily on serving small, single-location dental practices. Based on our experience and direct communication with Ryan Mi...

★★★★★

Kappy340 2025/04/20

Very informative

As a practicing dentist of over 33yrs- I am looking into all options of how to potentially finish my career.Non stop DSO mailings have peaked my inte...

★★★★★

JustinPerio 2025/03/19

5 Stars

Love the show! Private practice dentistry is the best way!

★★★★★

Orthojudy 2025/01/23

Great summary

Thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge. Just like other questionable trends, occurring in dentistry and orthodontics right now too many...

★☆☆☆☆

W . Abe 2025/02/21

Waste of time

I spent a day traveling listening to season 1 and 2. Very one sided, with zero openness to consider the other side. I have seen both private practic...

★★★★★

Texas_5 2025/01/22

Salt of the earth advice for dentists considering selling

Having myself been through a IDSO transaction and worked with one of the big broker guests you had on, I can confidently say that you guys really hamm...

★★★★★

Christopher beus 2024/09/16

Telling the Truth

We need more voices like these, as a dental specialist it has been amazing to see the feeding frenzy of DSO’s these past several years. Just like the...

★★★★★

Spi0802 2024/09/08

Very Informative

Great podcast with helpful insights into the pros and cons of selling to a DSO. Would recommend it to any dentist. It is interesting to see the mask p...

★★★★★

MApple78 2024/08/26

Super informative.

Dentists as a group are not business savvy. And as a profession that is mostly honorable and trustworthy we tend to trust people. And therefore can ...

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