Advertise on podcast: Just Say No To The DSO

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★★★★★

4.7

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70 reviews

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Dentistry is experiencing an attack by well-funded corporations who want to own the work of each dentist’s hands. While the promises of wealth and ease DSO’s present to owner-dentists appear enticing, experience shows the reality is very different. Just Say No to the DSO is a deep dive podcast for dentists in all stages of their career. It is especially for those who are looking at whether or not the option to sell to a DSO is the right choice. Our expert hosts, Bob Spiel, MBA and Nate Williams, CPA, CFP take listeners on a step by step journey through Season One laying out the realities of selling a practice to a DSO and why this isn't as good as it sounds, or the only option for successful dentists to have a thriving practice. Come and listen for the years of experience inside dentistry, as well as medicine, that have led to their logical arguments and stay for additional audience and listener feedback. Questions you’d like addressed live in future episodes can be sent to: [email protected] Let's start the discussion on how to save the future of the Dental Industry.

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Check latest episodes from Just Say No To The DSO podcast

Debriefing Dr. Whitney Weiner: Hype, Arbitrage, and the Icon Pitch

2026/10/16

In this episode of Just Say No to the DSO, hosts Bob and Nate debrief their recent conversation with Dr. Whitney Weiner, an influential periodontist and Chief Growth Officer at Icon. They examine her role as a polished DSO/DPO “influencer,” question the financial struggles that led her to sell her practices, and push back on claims about arbitrage, doctor ownership, and the long-term viability of the Icon model. The hosts ultimately argue that Icon represents “same wolf, different clothing” and that the pitch to sell into such structures still doesn’t add up for independent dentists.

Billy Madison Energy: Dissecting Chip’s Walmart-and-Recession Pitch

2026/09/28

Nate and Bob open this episode of Just Say No to the DSO by dissecting a recent email from broker Chip Fitchner that treats Walmart’s quarterly numbers and the next recession as proof every dentist should sell to an IDSO immediately. With a mix of straight analysis and pointed humor, they walk through the fear-and-hype playbook—liquidity, “chips off the table,” and the promise of fewer headaches—and show why those talking points collapse under even modest scrutiny. The takeaway is the same one the show was built on: a well-run independent practice still beats handing over the golden goose to someone who profits from the panic.

The Fox in the Henhouse: Chip Fichtner, Fear, and Greed

2026/09/04

Bob Speil and Nate Williams open with the starfish principle—one doctor who doesn’t sell is worth the whole podcast—then analogize DSO dealmaking to Big Tobacco: a fortune in getting people hooked, almost nothing in talking them out of it. They take a highlighter to Chip Fichtner’s LPS 2025 scorecard and “just reconnect” emails, knocking the 6.75–11x EBITDA headlines down to work-backs, minority equity, and a commission machine now waving BlackRock, yachts, recruiting teams, and AI as reasons to hand over the name on the door. The closer is the real question under the sales copy: when private equity and family offices own the cash flow, who still owns the patient’s care—and why the honest answer still starts with just saying no.

Two Sides of the Issue with Dr. Whitney Weiner

2026/08/15

In this episode, Dr. Whitney Weiner shares her journey from private practice to joining ICON Dental Partners, discussing the motivations, challenges, and industry insights related to group dentistry and private equity involvement. We explore the nuances of practice ownership, valuation, and the impact of DSO models on dentists and the profession.

Clawing His Way Back Out with Dr. Brad Langley

2026/08/01

This is a special Just Say No episode with a dentist who entered into a DSO and realized it was the wrong way forward for himself as his patients. Dr. Brad Langley recounts his tale of not only saying yes to a DSO but finally breaking free and finding new freedom after getting out. Here is a great quote from today's episode: "After spending years in a DSO, I realized the corporate grind was squeezing out the personal touch. I started feeling disconnected, especially when it came to valuing my team. The constant push for profit often overshadowed patient care and staff well-being."

Sticking To Your Principles with Dr. Stephanie Klasner

2026/07/27

In this episode, Dr. Stephanie Klasner shares her journey through the dental industry, her experiences with DSO models, and her insights on ethical practice and ownership. Discover how she navigated challenges and found success by prioritizing relationships and integrity.

Tumbling Down In a Pile of Lawsuits with Dr Mike Davis

2026/07/06

In this episode, Dr. Michael Davis discusses the pitfalls of DSO affiliations, legal settlements, and the importance of ethical practice in dentistry. He highlights recent cases like Aspen Dental's legal issues and offers advice for dentists considering partnerships.

Did We Mention a House of Cards? with Dr Mike Davis

2026/07/03

This episode features Dr. Mike Davis discussing the complex financial restructuring of major DSOs like Dental Care Alliance and Affordable Care, revealing the risks for dentists and the industry. We explore the implications of private equity ownership, debt-for-equity swaps, and the future of dental practice investments.

A Listener Case Study on Selling Your Practice

2026/06/18

As a dental professional, you may wonder about the implications of selling your practice to a DSO versus a private buyer. In this episode it's case study time as we delve into crucial insights on this topic, including tax considerations, the time value of money, and what it means for your practice.

It All Starts Right Here with Dr. Brendan Gallagher

2026/06/03

We've looked at serveral dentists deep into their careers and gone over how a DSO doesn't really make sense...what about the doctor with all of the promise in the world on the very front of his career...does a DSO make sense there? In this episode, Brendan Gallagher, an oral surgeon and podcaster, shares insights on the impact of DSOs on dentistry, the importance of practice ownership, and strategies for young dentists to maximize their careers and income potential.

Now, The DSO Will Make Your Equity...Disappear

2026/05/12

This episode exposes the realities behind DSO equity and why selling to a DSO often results in less financial benefit than expected. There is a magic trick all DSOs are trying to pull...the magically disappearing equity. Nate and Bob dissect the myths, true principles, and risks associated with DSO deals, empowering dentists to make informed decisions about their practice futures.

Sometimes It Pays To Listen To Your Better Half with Dr Mike Crockett Part 2

2026/05/01

Starting a dental practice can be daunting, but with the right insights and support, it can also be incredibly rewarding. Mike and Christy Crockett, who have navigated the complex world of dentistry together, share their journey—from Mike’s schooling to their eventual ownership of a successful dental practice. In this post, you'll discover key lessons on building a practice, the importance of relationships in business, and how to make informed decisions like when to Say No to a DSO, this is the awesome conclusion to a great interview with Nate and Dr. Mike Crockett and his great wife Christy.

Sometimes It Pays To Listen To Your Better Half with Dr Mike Crockett Part 1

2026/05/01

Starting a dental practice can be daunting, but with the right insights and support, it can also be incredibly rewarding. Mike and Christy Crockett, who have navigated the complex world of dentistry together, share their journey—from Mike’s schooling to their eventual ownership of a successful dental practice. In this post, you'll discover key lessons on building a practice, the importance of relationships in business, and how to make informed decisions including when to Say No to a DSO. Enjoy meeting the Crocketts with Nate in this awesome 2 part series.

Unmasking the DSO Deal: What Every Dentist Must Know

2026/04/19

This episode exposes the hidden truths behind DSO deals in dentistry, revealing how dentists are often financially fleeced through complex deal structures. Bob and Nate bring you their expert analysis to break down the mechanics of these deals, showing why saying no to DSOs is crucial for dentists' financial health.

A Smooth Voice From the South With Dr Travis Nixon

2026/04/14

In this in-depth interview, a blue blooded Tar Heel, Dr. Travis Nixon shares his insights on the rise of DSOs, legislative challenges, and how dentists can protect their profession through education and advocacy. Not only does Dr Nixon have great insight into the current dentistry pipeline of practitioners, he also shares incredible insights into the business and structural changes of medicine and draws parallels to dentistry. You are going to love this episode with Dr Nixon

Podcast reviews

Read Just Say No To The DSO podcast reviews

4.7 out of 5

70 reviews

★★★★★

BrianDT941 2026/08/16

Great podcast

I love this podcast. So informative.

★★★★★

r00nil31 2026/05/15

Thank you!

Loved listening to this. I hate where our profession is going with DSOs and private equity. Thanks for fighting the good fight and informing !

★☆☆☆☆

Concerned DDS 2025/09/18

Concerned DDS

This firm appears to focus primarily on serving small, single-location dental practices. Based on our experience and direct communication with Ryan Mi...

★★★★★

Middle Age Dentist 2025/04/23

Well Done

This is a podcast by dental cpa’s/advisors who care about the profession. This is information you just won’t find everywhere. Certainly Dentists who...

★★★★★

Kappy340 2025/04/20

Very informative

As a practicing dentist of over 33yrs- I am looking into all options of how to potentially finish my career.Non stop DSO mailings have peaked my inte...

★★★★★

JustinPerio 2025/03/19

5 Stars

Love the show! Private practice dentistry is the best way!

★☆☆☆☆

W . Abe 2025/02/21

Waste of time

I spent a day traveling listening to season 1 and 2. Very one sided, with zero openness to consider the other side. I have seen both private practic...

★★★★★

Orthojudy 2025/01/23

Great summary

Thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge. Just like other questionable trends, occurring in dentistry and orthodontics right now too many...

★★★★★

Texas_5 2025/01/22

Salt of the earth advice for dentists considering selling

Having myself been through a IDSO transaction and worked with one of the big broker guests you had on, I can confidently say that you guys really hamm...

★★★★★

Christopher beus 2024/09/16

Telling the Truth

We need more voices like these, as a dental specialist it has been amazing to see the feeding frenzy of DSO’s these past several years. Just like the...

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