Advertise on podcast: The Underground

After 43 years in business, Alan Roper believes the trading environment has fundamentally changed. The tailwinds that once helped retailers grow have disappeared, and he doesn't expect them to return any time soon. But Blue Diamond Garden Centres isn't standing still. Recorded live at Glee, Alan begins with a frank assessment of the challenges facing garden centre businesses before joining Phil Wright to explain how Blue Diamond has increased profits by 44%, despite mounting employment costs. They explore how benchmarking across the group has helped improve efficiency without sacrificing customer service, and how Alan is embracing AI to uncover missed sales opportunities, analyse performance and make better business decisions. Alan also discusses the impact AI is already having on jobs, plans to introduce a virtual gardening adviser, and how £60 million of backing from Caledonia Investments will support Blue Diamond's continued expansion. It's a candid and practical conversation about people, productivity, profitability and why Alan remains optimistic about the future of garden centre retail.

Peat-free compost has come a long way, so why is the industry still struggling to move forward? Recorded live at Glee, Phil and Kate are joined by Dan Durston and Simon Blackhurst from Durstons to explore the commercial pressures, quality challenges and consumer perceptions shaping the future of growing media. With retailers still pushing for low-price compost, are manufacturers being forced to compromise on performance? And could poor-quality products be undermining consumer confidence in peat-free? The conversation explores plans for a minimum performance standard, the importance of helping gardeners choose the right products, and whether the industry should take the lead rather than wait for government legislation. With quality improving and the technology already available, what's really holding peat-free back?

Where could profit be hiding in the everyday workings of your garden centre?For Josh Novell, a sandwich arriving 10–15 minutes before his coffee prompted a closer look at how Polhill’s restaurant operated. That led to a wider examination of the processes, buying decisions and business habits that affect both profitability and the customer experience.Recorded live on stage at Glee 2026, this episode of The Underground sees Phil Wright joined by Polhill Garden Centre director Josh Novell to explore what the business has learned. They discuss why more coffee machines weren’t the answer, how keeping promotions running too long can erode profit, and why knowing when a Christmas product sold out can change the next buying decision.Josh also shares the ideas that didn’t work, including an Aldi-inspired approach to displaying deals, and explains the thinking behind Polhill’s expansion into padel and events.An honest, practical conversation about finding opportunities to improve profitability in the business you already have.

What does the next generation of garden customers actually want from us?Recorded at Glee 2026, Kate Turner is joined by Natalie Boynton, Sales Director at Happy Plants, and Ed Hill, Managing Director of The Horti House, for a conversation about a customer who may look very different from the traditional green-fingered gardener.Natalie introduces the idea of the affectionate “plonker”: someone who wants gardening to be accessible, straightforward and easy to enjoy. From hanging baskets you can simply put on a hook to plants designed for balconies and rented homes, is the industry doing enough for people who want the result without first becoming gardening experts?They discuss whether plant care information has become unnecessarily complicated, how houseplants helped make plants part of lifestyle and interior design, whether garden centres can offer too much choice, and why giving customers confidence may matter more than giving them every piece of horticultural information.The conversation also explores the changing role of garden centres, the importance of knowledgeable staff, and how better use of technology, AI and customer data could help retailers understand and support the people coming through their doors.Plus, Natalie and Ed answer our Glee question: what could the garden sector learn from outside the industry?A thoughtful conversation about making plants easier to buy, easier to understand and relevant to a changing customer.

What happens when growing your own food becomes about much more than what ends up on the plate? Recorded live on stage at Glee, Phil Wright and Kate Turner are joined by Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall, chef, broadcaster, author, campaigner and the man behind River Cottage. Hugh takes us back to the childhood experience that first sparked his fascination with growing, and explains how that relationship with food eventually helped inspire River Cottage. The conversation explores why growing food can be an act of self-reliance, how it changes our relationship with what we eat, and why Hugh believes growing organically and looking after the life within our soil is more relevant than ever. We also hear about his High Fibre Heroes, the connection he sees between the microbiome in our soil and our own gut health, and why even growing a small amount of food can make a difference. Towards the end of the conversation, Hugh is joined by Max Mancroft from Seed Revolution. They discuss their River Cottage organic seed range, the opportunity to make growing from seed feel simpler and more appealing, and why a packet of seeds might just make a rather good present. Finally, Hugh and Max answer our Glee question: what could the garden sector learn from outside the industry?

Whenever Michael Perry joins The Underground, the conversation is unlikely to follow a predictable path.Recorded at Glee 2026, this relaxed and wide-ranging chat sees Michael join Phil Wright and Kate Turner to discuss what could come next for Gardeners’ World, whether gardening television needs to become more commercially aware and why different parts of the sector need to understand the audiences they serve.They also explore what makes a new plant stand out, how good storytelling can help a product succeed, the rise and fall of rare houseplants, selling plants on QVC and the growing importance of authenticity as AI-generated content becomes harder to avoid.Along the way, the conversation takes in garden centres as the department stores of the future, the uneasy relationship between sustainability and artificial products, attractive male gardeners and Michael’s latest business idea: a mobile garden centre in an old library van.It’s a friendly, funny and candid conversation about plants, marketing and where the garden sector could go next.

Gemma Haigh’s route into horticulture hasn’t exactly been conventional. After starting her career in museums and heritage, she turned a lifelong love of plants into The Plant Parlour, working across houseplants, content creation, design and interior landscaping. She also created a Houseplant Studio for the 2024 RHS Chelsea Flower Show, inspired, perhaps unexpectedly, by the post-apocalyptic world of The Last of Us. But this conversation goes well beyond houseplants. Gemma joins Phil and Kate to talk about why industries driven by passion can become comfortable with expecting people to work for very little, the difficulty of putting a proper value on horticultural expertise, and whether women face additional barriers when trying to make a career in the sector. They also discuss caring responsibilities, the treatment of women online, why follower numbers and genuine expertise aren’t the same thing, and what brands should be looking for when they work with creators. And, returning to plants, Gemma explains why climate change could start to blur the distinction between what we think of as an indoor plant and an outdoor plant. It’s a wide-ranging conversation about plants, careers, expertise and what it takes to be taken seriously in horticulture. In this episode: How an overflowing garden led Gemma into houseplantsCreating a Houseplant Studio at RHS Chelsea Flower ShowWhy passion shouldn’t be used as an excuse for poor payWhether horticulture properly values professional expertiseWomen, caring responsibilities and career progressionThe difference between influence, entertainment and genuine authorityWhy brands need to think harder about who represents themHow our changing climate could change the way we grow houseplants

Glee is one of the biggest dates in the garden industry calendar. It’s also three very long days of walking, talking, networking, discovering new products and trying to remember who said what by the time you get home.So, ahead of Glee 2026, we’ve delved back into Season 1 of The Underground and brought together some of the best Glee survival advice from our guests. And between them, they’ve clocked up a lot of exhibition miles. We hear tips from garden centre leaders, suppliers, marketers, PR professionals, journalists, growers and industry organisations on how to get more from the show, whether you’re exhibiting or visiting. There’s plenty of practical advice: comfortable shoes, hydration, planning your meetings, taking useful notes, making time to explore every aisle and following up properly afterwards. But there are some bigger lessons too. How do you make the most of chance conversations? What should an exhibitor actually be trying to achieve? Why should your product packaging be able to sell the story without somebody standing beside it? And why might staying until the very last bell lead to a customer relationship that lasts ten years? You’ll also discover the importance of yoga, a good breakfast, emergency plasters, strategic coffee consumption and, apparently, the correct way to end a conversation. Featuring advice from Alan Roper, Boyd Douglas-Davies, Debi Holland, Elaine Gotts, Ellen Mary, Fran Barnes, Guy Jenkins, Jane Hartley, Jane Lawler, Kate Ebbens, Kimberley Hornby-George, Linda Petrons, Matthew Mein, Megan Warren-Davis, Michael Perry, Simon Taylor, Steve Harper, Toby Thomas, Vicky Nuttall and Will Scott. The Underground is the official podcast partner of Glee 2026.

With Glee just a month away, we’re heading back to Birmingham, as well as the conversations we recorded there last year.At Glee 2025, we asked every guest who joined us one simple question:What’s one change you’d love to see in the garden sector over the next five years?The answers gave us a fascinating snapshot of where the industry thought change was needed.We heard calls for more young people to discover gardening and horticulture, better training for people entering the industry, greater support for independent garden centres and much more ambitious use of digital technology. Our guests also talked about sustainability, peat-free growing media, water conservation, online retail, AI and how garden centres themselves could evolve.There were plenty of big ideas too, from turning garden centres into evening destinations to rethinking the way plants are merchandised.A year on, and with the industry preparing to come together at Glee again, it feels like the perfect time to revisit those conversations.Which ideas are beginning to happen? Which challenges are still with us? And if we asked the same question at Glee this year, would the answers be any different?Featuring voices from across garden retail, horticulture, suppliers, marketing and the wider garden sector.

From a four-acre smallholding growing strawberries and potatoes to three award-winning garden centres, Perrywood’s story is one of family, plants and steady growth.In this episode, Phil and Kate talk to Hannah Powell, HR and Communications Director at Perrywood Garden Centres, about how the business has expanded without losing the values that shaped it. Hannah explains why plants remain at the heart of Perrywood, how industry standards have encouraged continuous improvement, and why knowledgeable, well-supported teams are central to the customer experience.They also discuss attracting younger customers, the power of a successful loyalty programme, making sustainable choices, the pressures facing garden centre businesses and how climate change could affect what customers grow in the future.Along the way, Hannah shares why gardening is her therapy and how a visit to a garden centre can offer people far more than a shopping trip.

This week, the tables are turned as Kate interviews The Underground co-host Phil Wright, co-founder of creative marketing agency WrightObara.Phil recently wrote an in-depth article exploring how people choose one product over another. In this conversation, he explains why those decisions are rarely driven by facts, features and price alone — and why good creative marketing needs to do more than simply explain what a product does.The discussion begins with Phil’s slightly irrational desire for an iPod Nano and develops into a wider conversation about emotion, gut feeling, brand perception, strategy and creativity. Phil and Kate explore: Why rational versus irrational is often the wrong distinction How brands become a collection of promises and experiences Why research and analysis are not the same as strategy How creativity helps products get noticed, understood and remembered The emotions that can influence even practical garden purchases Why brands need to persuade both the retail buyer and the shopper Whether emotional marketing is persuasive or manipulative Why explaining a product is rarely enough to make people want it It is also a chance to learn a little more about Phil, the thinking behind WrightObara and why understanding how people choose has become central to the agency’s work. Read Phil’s full article, How people choose: emotion, reason and the power of creative marketing: https://wrightobara.com/blog/how-people-choose-emotion-reason-and-the-power-of-creative-marketing/ Find out more about WrightObara: www.wrightobara.com

Garden writer and horticultural lecturer Ross Pearson joins Phil and Kate to talk about his ambitious Dig for Victory allotment project and what wartime growing advice can still teach gardeners today. Ross has set out to grow food using guidance originally produced by the Ministry of Agriculture, exploring what might have been lost as gardening has become more convenient. The conversation covers the importance of healthy soil, compost, manure and crop rotation, alongside the growing expectation that gardens should deliver instant results.They also discuss the role garden centres play in shaping what people buy, whether confidence is sometimes mistaken for expertise on social media, and why follower numbers increasingly influence opportunities for garden writers and horticultural professionals.Ross speaks honestly about the demands of creating gardening content, his concerns about AI-generated advice and articles, and why the enthusiasm he sees among younger people gives him confidence in the future of horticulture.The conversation also reveals where Ross’s love of gardening began, with warm memories of his grandfather Jackie, his allotment and “the Jackie way” of doing things.Follow Ross on Instagram and TikTok: @rosspearsongardening

At a time when so much marketing is measured in clicks, what can a physical magazine still offer garden centres, suppliers and their customers? In this episode of The Underground, Phil and Kate are joined by Nick Trachillis, director of The Garden Centre Magazine. Nick explains how the business creates bespoke magazines for garden centres across the UK, free to both the centre and its customers and funded by national and local advertisers. They discuss the importance of useful editorial content, how to balance the needs of readers and advertisers, and why a magazine taken home can continue working long after a customer has left the garden centre. The conversation also covers the challenge of measuring print advertising, the value of loyal local audiences, the role of cafés and restaurants in increasing dwell time, and how print and digital can work alongside each other. Nick also shares the family story behind the business, its long-standing support for Greenfingers Charity, and his belief in natural growth, strong relationships and creating a workplace people genuinely enjoy being part of. A warm and practical conversation for garden centre owners, suppliers, marketers and anyone interested in customer communication across the garden retail sector.

We're back for a brand new season of The Underground Podcast!In our first episode, Phil and Kate are joined by Dr Ana Attlee, co-founder of Seedball, to talk about wildflowers, pollinators, biodiversity and the role garden centres can play in helping people make more wildlife-friendly choices.Seedball was created to make growing wildflowers from seed as simple as possible. Ana shares how Seedball grew from academic research and a passion for conservation into a mission-led garden product stocked by retailers including garden centres. The conversation explores the loss of wildflower meadows, the importance of bees and other pollinators, why wildlife gardening needs to feel hopeful rather than overwhelming, and how small spaces can still make a real difference.Phil and Kate also talk to Ana about working with organisations such as Kew Gardens, and why garden centres are so important in normalising wildlife-friendly gardening for every generation.A hopeful, practical and inspiring conversation about native wildflowers, biodiversity, sustainable gardening and the power of making environmental action feel achievable.Find out more about Seedball: https://seedball.co.uk/Your hosts:Phil Wright: ⁠http://wrightobara.com⁠Kate Turner: ⁠http://www.gardenerguru.co.uk

What’s the one change you’d most like to see in garden retail over the next five years? At Glee 2025, we put that question to all 20 of our guests who joined us in The Underground podcast booth – from garden centre owners and suppliers to marketeers, educators and innovators. The result is a sharp, hopeful snapshot of where the garden sector wants to head next.  In this compilation episode you’ll hear from voices including:Amy and Libby Stubbs (British Garden Centres), Kate Ebbens (Woodlodge), Michael Perry (Mr Plant Geek), Boyd Douglas-Davies, Peter Burks (GCA), Nigel Thompson (Sipcam Home and Garden), Helen Thomas and Simon Taylor (Empathy), Steve Harper (Grass Gains & Responsible Sourcing Scheme), Vanessa Cranford (Spring Marketing), Aaron Rudman-Hawkins (The Evergreen Agency), Barry Knight (The Full Range), Kaz Edwards (Heart of Eden) Dan Durston and Simon Blackhurst (Durstons), Nat Boynton and Meg Warren-Davis (YPHA), Tony Kersey (GIMA), Paul Oliver (the Urban Nature Store) Rev Dave Walker (Birleymoor Garden Centre), Belle Richardson (Seal Stop) and Paul Pleydell (Pleydell Smithyman).  Themes that keep coming up: Attracting younger and more diverse customers into garden centres and horticulture.  Better education and funded training for new entrants and shop-floor teams.  Peat-free growing media, soil health and biofertilisers becoming the norm.  Smarter use of digital, AI and ecommerce to support modern customer journeys.  Stronger sustainability standards, water-saving innovation and support for independents at the heart of local communities.  If you’re a garden retailer, supplier or brand marketer, this is a 360-degree view of the sector’s hopes, frustrations and priorities as we look towards 2030. ⁠Discover more about our hosts:Kate Turner: ⁠www.gardenerguru.co.uk⁠Phil Wright: ⁠www.wrightobara.com