Welcome to Beyond the Surface, where being seen means being understood.
Here, we explore the ups and downs of exploring and sometimes losing faith and community, and the healing power of shared stories. This is a safe space to connect, share, and find support in our common experiences of religious trauma and leaving fundamental communities. Join us as we build a community of understanding and connection.
Host - Sam Sellers; Therapist specialising in Religious Trauma and the Queer Community
Links:
Website - www.anchoredcounsellingservices.com.au
Facebook - www.facebook.com/anchoredcounsellingservices
Instagram - www.instagram.com/anchoredcounsellingservices
Monthly Newsletter - https://anchored-counselling-services.ck.page/e912816a5d
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Check latest episodes from Beyond The Surface podcast
Purity, Shame, and Untangling a High-Control Upbringing
2026/02/04
In this episode, Brianna shares her journey growing up in a high-control religious environment and the impact of her mother leaving a restrictive sect while pregnant. She reflects on the effects of purity culture, shame around sexuality, and years of believing she had a sex addiction. Brianna discusses reclaiming her identity, separating her beliefs from her upbringing, and finding empowerment. The episode closes with a message of hope, emphasising the importance of self-discovery and the value of personal stories.
Who Is Brianna?
Brianna Bell is a Canadian journalist and essayist whose work has been featured in The New York Times, The Guardian, The Globe & Mail, CBC, and more. Brianna's memoir, God Lover, will be published by Toronto's Dundurn Press in 2027.
Connect
Brianna's Website - https://www.briannabellwriter.com/Connect on socials - Substack, Threads, or Instagram
You can find out more about Sam on her website - www.anchoredcounsellingservices.com.auTo connect with Sam on Instagram - @anchoredcounsellingservicesWant to contact with Sam about the podcast or therapy? Use this contact form.Also check out The Religious Trauma Collective
Behind the Curtain: The Systematic Power of Megachurches
2026/01/28
In this episode, Sam sits down with Scott, a journalist and author, to discuss his latest book examining the rise of megachurches and their ties to Christian nationalism. Scott shares his experiences growing up in a Southern Baptist megachurch and explores the power dynamics that often leave congregants feeling voiceless. The conversation highlights systemic issues within megachurch culture, including the exploitation of members, the use of hope as a tool of control, and the consequences of silence around abuse. Scott emphasises the importance of validating the experiences of those harmed and amplifying collective voices to challenge these structures. The episode closes with reflections on accountability, transparency, and the need for communities where individuals feel seen and heard, offering validation and encouragement to anyone navigating trauma within church environments.
Who Is Scott
Scott Latta is an award-winning journalist who has spent a decade reporting for humanitarian organizations on conflict, displacement, and climate change around the world. His essays and reporting have been featured in The Believer, CityLab, Modern Farmer, and The Southampton Review, which awarded him the Frank McCourt Memoir Prize. He lives in Oregon.
Connect
Scotts website - https://www.scottlatta.comConnect with Scott via Substack: Gods of the Smoke Machine, Bluesky: @scottlatta.bsky.social or Twitter: @swlatta
You can find out more about Sam on her website - www.anchoredcounsellingservices.com.auTo connect with Sam on Instagram - @anchoredcounsellingservicesWant to contact with Sam about the podcast or therapy? Use this contact form.Also check out The Religious Trauma Collective
From Faith to Freedom: Leaving an Abusive Marriage
2026/01/21
In this episode, I’m joined by Louise for a raw and honest conversation about intimate partner abuse, faith, and the long road back to self-trust. Louise shares how love, control, and religious beliefs became tangled together, making it hard to recognise abuse while she was inside it. We talk about the ways faith and religious language can be used to justify manipulation, silence doubt, and keep people stuck in harmful relationships, as well as the deep confusion that comes from trying to reconcile pain with beliefs about love, forgiveness, and endurance. Louise reflects on the barriers she faced when seeking help, the role of community (both helpful and harmful), and what it’s taken to reclaim her sense of agency and worth. This episode offers validation for anyone navigating similar dynamics and gently names the courage it takes to leave, heal, and begin again.
Who Is Louise
Louise grew up on, and lives on, Wurundjeri Country in Naarm/Melbourne Australia. Her story is about the domestic abuse she experienced in a 'Christian marriage', and the influence of Christianity and the churches she was a part of, including a cult, in enabling the abuse.
Connect
You can find out more about Sam on her website - www.anchoredcounsellingservices.com.auTo connect with Sam on Instagram - @anchoredcounsellingservicesWant to contact with Sam about the podcast or therapy? Use this contact form.Also check out The Religious Trauma Collective
The Cost of Being Queer in a Fundamental Church Part Two
2026/01/14
In part two of Chris’s story, we explore the shift from denial to self-acceptance as a queer person shaped by faith. Chris reflects on how embracing authenticity accelerated his journey, and how connecting with others who had already walked this path made healing feel possible. We talk about the grief that comes with recognising lost time spent under shame, conversion ideologies, and trying to survive within unsafe religious systems, as well as the complexity of redefining relationships built around a false version of self.
The conversation also turns toward Chris’s role in advocacy against conversion practices. He shares the emotional weight of stepping into public action, driven by responsibility rather than visibility, and the power of survivor-led movements in creating change. This episode weaves together personal healing and collective action, highlighting how community, truth-telling, and courage often go hand in hand.
Connect with Chris
For information on SOGICE - https://sogicesurvivors.com.auTo connect with Chris - https://www.linkedin.com/in/chris-csabs-67152b224/
Connect with Sam
You can find out more about Sam on her website - www.anchoredcounsellingservices.com.auTo connect with Sam on Instagram - @anchoredcounsellingservicesWant to contact with Sam about the podcast or therapy? Use this contact form.Also check out The Religious Trauma Collective
The Cost of Being Queer in a Fundamental Church Part One
2026/01/07
This episode explores the impact of religious trauma on personal identity, focusing on Chris’s experience as a queer person raised within fundamentalist Christianity. Chris reflects on growing up in a Charismatic Baptist church, where emotionally intense healing practices and fear-based teachings shaped his early understanding of faith and selfhood. He shares how messages about sexuality, particularly the framing of homosexuality as broken or demonic deeply affected his mental health, contributing to years of shame, anxiety, and OCD. As the conversation unfolds, Chris speaks candidly about the painful process of reconciling faith with his authentic self, and the emotional fallout of realising that the beliefs meant to save him were also causing harm. The episode highlights the complexity of healing from religious trauma and the importance of honest conversations about faith, sexuality, and recovery for those navigating similar paths.
Connect with Chris
For information on SOGICE - https://sogicesurvivors.com.auTo connect with Chris - https://www.linkedin.com/in/chris-csabs-67152b224/
Connect with Sam
You can find out more about Sam on her website - www.anchoredcounsellingservices.com.auTo connect with Sam on Instagram - @anchoredcounsellingservicesWant to contact with Sam about the podcast or therapy? Use this contact form.Also check out The Religious Trauma Collective
Bonus - Navigating Nostalgia: A Reflection on Christmas and Religious Trauma
2025/12/14
This episode delves into the complexities of navigating the Christmas season, particularly for individuals grappling with religious trauma. I reflect on both nostalgia and discomfort that arises during this festive period, articulating what I miss from my past experiences within a church context, alongside the burdens I no longer wish to bear. The conversation emphasises the duality of memory; acknowledging the beauty in the rituals and community while simultaneously rejecting the pressures and emotional manipulations that often accompanied them. This episode serves as a space for shared reflection, encouraging acceptance of both the joys and challenges that accompany this time of year.
You can find out more about Sam on her website – www.anchoredcounsellingservices.com.auTo connect with Sam on Instagram – @anchoredcounsellingservicesWant to contact with Sam about the podcast or therapy? Use this contact form.Also check out The Religious Trauma Collective
What 'Secret Lives of Mormon Wives' Reveals About Trauma
2025/12/08
In this bonus episode, Sam sits down with ex-Mormon therapists Ashley and Melissa to unpack the latest season of Secret Lives of Mormon Wives through the lens of religious trauma and deconstruction. Drawing from both their lived experience and clinical work, they discuss the heavier themes woven through the show; sexual assault, childhood trauma, purity culture, and the emotional toll of life inside a high-control religious system. Ashley shares how confronting it can be to watch stories that echo her own, while Melissa highlights the importance of understanding the hidden dynamics that shape these women’s lives. Together, they explore what healing can look like after Mormonism, the power of community, and why compassion is essential for anyone navigating their way out of a restrictive faith.
Who are Ashley & Mellissa?
Ashley Buckner is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist in Utah and California. Specialising in a form of trauma therapy called Brainspotting that works to help people find more regulation in their nervous system. She has the additional speciality of religious trauma and faith transitions. Ashley was raised in the Church of Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints (aka: the Mormon Church) and later left in 2008.
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Mellissa Perry Hill, MS, LPC is a therapist, supervisor, educator, and founder of Inner Compass Counseling & Consultation, LLC—a Gilbert-based practice specializing in Mormon religious trauma, Mormon faith transitions, and nervous-system-centered recovery after high-control religion. As a clinician who left the LDS church herself, Mellissa blends lived experience with deep clinical training in EMDR, IFS-informed care, DBT, and trauma-responsive narrative work. Her approach is warm, grounded, slightly sassy, and rooted in the belief that healing begins when we stop outsourcing our authority and start listening inward.
Mellissa has been featured on multiple podcasts, panels, and professional mental-health platforms, where she speaks about the intersections of spiritual abuse, identity reconstruction, complex family dynamics, and the physiology of trauma. She is also the author of the Faith Transition Journal on Amazon and hosts an online clinician community dedicated to ethical, inclusive, anti-shame mental-health care.
Outside the therapy room, Mellissa is a mom of three, a sunrise yogi with a soft spot for nervous-system regulation flows, and an unapologetic lover of big books—the kind that sit proudly on your nightstand whether you’re actively reading them or spiritually absorbing them through osmosis.
Her work centers on helping people return to themselves: to the body, to intuition, to inner authority, and to a sense of safety strong enough to hold both the grief and expansion of a faith crisis. Whether she’s supervising clinicians, running groups, creating educational content, or speaking on air, Mellissa reminds people that their inner compass isn’t broken—just waiting to be reclaimed.
Connect With Us
Find out more about Ashley via her website – https://www.ashleybucknerlmft.com/aboutYou can also connect over on Instagram
You can find out more about Mellissa via her website - http://www.inner-compass-counseling.com/You can also connect over on Instagram
You can find out more about Sam on her website – a...
The Ones Deconstructing Faith & Parenting - Liz & Jesse Part 2
2025/11/26
In this follow-up episode, Liz and Jesse open up about parenting after faith deconstruction, an experience filled with both healing and unlearning. They reflect on how leaving a high-control church reshaped their ideas of authority, discipline, and what it means to raise kids with curiosity instead of fear. Through personal stories, they share the challenges of guiding children who question everything and the beauty in watching them form their own beliefs. Together, they unpack the shift from obedience to openness, from control to connection, and the daily work of letting their kids feel the full range of being human - joy, pain, doubt, wonder, all of it. It’s a heartfelt conversation about breaking cycles, choosing authenticity, and raising children who feel free to be fully themselves.
Connect With Us
To learn more about Liz & Jesse or The Practice Co head to their website.You can follow along over on Instagram – @thepracticecoYou can download The Practice Co on Apple or Android
You can find out more about Sam on her website – www.anchoredcounsellingservices.com.auTo connect with Sam on Instagram – @anchoredcounsellingservicesWant to contact with Sam about the podcast or therapy? Use this contact form.Also check out The Religious Trauma Collective
The Ones Who Deconstructed While Married - Liz & Jesse Part 1
2025/11/19
Liz and Jesse join us for a deeply honest conversation about what it means to deconstruct faith while rebuilding a relationship that began inside a high-control church. Liz shares her experience growing up as a pastor’s daughter and the shock of discovering her father’s double life, a revelation that shattered her worldview. Jesse reflects on his eclectic spiritual background and the dissonance of questioning the beliefs that once defined him. Together, they unpack the toll of purity culture, the weight of community expectations, and the struggle to find themselves beyond performance and dogma. Through it all, their friendship has been the anchor that’s held them steady through deconstruction and healing. What emerges is a story of liberation, self-discovery, and rediscovering joy in the simple things.
Connect With Us
To learn more about Liz & Jesse or The Practice Co head to their website.You can follow along over on Instagram – @thepracticecoYou can download The Practice Co on Apple or Android
You can find out more about Sam on her website – www.anchoredcounsellingservices.com.auTo connect with Sam on Instagram – @anchoredcounsellingservicesWant to contact with Sam about the podcast or therapy? Use this contact form.Also check out The Religious Trauma Collective
The One Bringing An AuDHD Lens to Deconstruction
2025/11/12
Jeremy shares his experience of growing up within a strict Lutheran sect, offering a candid look at how faith, identity, and his late AuDHD diagnosis intersected throughout his life. From early moments of doubt at just ten years old to the long process of deconstruction that followed, Jeremy reflects on the challenges of navigating a belief system that often discouraged questioning and individuality. The conversation explores how environments rooted in rigid doctrine can stifle self-expression and perpetuate cycles of shame, while also shedding light on the unique ways neurodivergent experiences shape one’s relationship with faith and community. Jeremy reveals the courage it takes to unlearn deeply ingrained beliefs and reclaim a sense of autonomy, offering listeners a deeply human story of resilience, awareness, and healing.
Who Is Jeremy?
Jeremy Schumacher is a therapist, educator, and coach. Jeremy specialises in couples counselling, religious trauma, and sports performance, bringing warmth, adaptability, and depth to his work. Outside the therapy room, he’s often outdoors with his wife, two boys, and three dogs or happily nerding out about books, music, and the psychology of superheroes.
Connect With Us
Find out more about Jeremy on his website - https://wellnesswithjer.com/You can connect over on Instagram or YoutubeTune in to Jeremy's podcast Your Therapist Needs Therapy
You can find out more about Sam on her website – www.anchoredcounsellingservices.com.auTo connect with Sam on Instagram – @anchoredcounsellingservicesWant to contact with Sam about the podcast or therapy? Use this contact form.Also check out The Religious Trauma Collective
The MLM Cult Survivor
2025/11/05
In this episode, Brandie opens up about her experience within a commercial cult operating under the guise of a multi-level marketing (MLM) scheme. She reflects on the allure of belonging and empowerment that initially drew her in, and the eventual disillusionment that came with realising the manipulative dynamics at play. Brandie explores the guilt, fear, and loss of autonomy that many, especially young mothers face in these high-control environments. Her journey of leaving the MLM world and rebuilding her sense of self offers a powerful reminder of the importance of self-forgiveness, critical awareness, and community support in reclaiming one’s identity beyond coercive systems.
Who Is Brandie?
Brandie is a student psychotherapist in clinical supervision, and MLM recovery advocate. She believes everyone deserves freedom of mind, so she speaks out about abuses of power and coercion perpetrated by MLM scams.
Connect With Us
Find out more about Flipping The Pyramid Connect with Brandie over on Substack or Instagram
You can find out more about Sam on her website – www.anchoredcounsellingservices.com.auTo connect with Sam on Instagram – @anchoredcounsellingservicesWant to contact with Sam about the podcast or therapy? Use this contact form.Also check out The Religious Trauma Collective
The Cult Survivor Who Wont Be Silenced
2025/10/29
In this powerful episode, Cheryl shares her courageous journey of escaping the Exclusive Brethren, a high-control religious community marked by isolation and fear. Born into a life defined by strict rules and emotional repression, Cheryl recounts her childhood in rural Saskatchewan, revealing experiences of sexual abuse, indoctrination, and deep psychological control. Leaving the group at just 17, she began the long, painful process of reclaiming her freedom and sense of self. Through raw honesty and reflection, Cheryl offers insight into the emotional toll of religious trauma, the importance of community in recovery, and the transformative power of therapy. Her story stands as a moving testament to resilience, healing, and the human capacity to rebuild after unimaginable loss.
Who Is Cheryl?
Cheryl Bawtinheimer (née Hope) is a survivor of child sexual abuse who escaped the Plymouth Brethren Christian Church at 17. She now speaks internationally about the hidden harms of high-control religious groups and works to support and empower other survivors and insiders still stuck in the Plymouth Brethren Christian Church.
Connect With Us
You can connect with Cheryl over on Facebook or Instagram For a one-stop shop for the Get A Life Podcast head to their website - https://www.get-a-life.net/
You can find out more about Sam on her website – www.anchoredcounsellingservices.com.auTo connect with Sam on Instagram – @anchoredcounsellingservicesWant to contact with Sam about the podcast or therapy? Use this contact form.Also check out The Religious Trauma Collective
The Ex-Mormon Therapist
2025/10/22
Raised in an unorthodox Mormon family, Ashley shares her journey of navigating faith, identity, and the pressures of patriarchal religious structures. In this conversation, she reflects on the tension of growing up with a non-Mormon father, the weight of expectations within her community, and the shame that often accompanied rigid doctrine. Now a therapist specialising in religious trauma, Ashley offers candid insight into the process of deconstructing harmful beliefs, reclaiming identity, and finding empowerment beyond the confines of Mormonism.
Who Is Ashley?
Ashley Buckner is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist in Utah and California. Specialising in a form of trauma therapy called Brainspotting that works to help people find more regulation in their nervous system. She has the additional speciality of religious trauma and faith transitions. Ashley was raised in the Church of Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints (aka: the Mormon Church) and later left in 2008.
Connect With Us
Find out more about Ashley via her website - https://www.ashleybucknerlmft.com/aboutYou can also connect over on Instagram
You can find out more about Sam on her website – www.anchoredcounsellingservices.com.auTo connect with Sam on Instagram – @anchoredcounsellingservicesWant to contact with Sam about the podcast or therapy? Use this contact form.Also check out The Religious Trauma Collective
The One Who Went From Being A Blessing To Being Shunned
2025/10/15
Shunned after leaving the Geelong Revival Center, Jodie shares her journey from the insular world of fundamentalist faith to a more expansive and authentic sense of self. She reflects on the love and community she once knew, alongside the rigid expectations and lack of critical thought that shaped her childhood. Candidly exploring the pain of shunning and the challenge of rebuilding relationships, Jodie offers a powerful story of resilience, healing, and the courage it takes to reclaim identity beyond the confines of a high-control church.
Who Is Jodie?
Born & raised in high control pentecostalism (GRC, of 'pray harder' and Vic Inquiry fame!), 4 generations deep. Jodie left in her 40s with her family. Her dad was a pastor who spoke up about bullying within ministry, and they got kicked out because they had them stay in their home. They suffered some extreme shunning & witnessed some impressive hypocrisy in the church. Now out for almost 3 years and thriving.
Connect With Us
Connect with Jodie over on Instagram
You can find out more about Sam on her website – www.anchoredcounsellingservices.com.auTo connect with Sam on Instagram – @anchoredcounsellingservicesWant to contact with Sam about the podcast or therapy? Use this contact form.Also check out The Religious Trauma Collective
The One Who Went From Golden Child To Scapegoat
2025/10/08
Lauren’s story begins with the role of golden child, expected to keep the peace in a high-control family by silencing her own needs and striving for parental approval. Over time, this weight collided with her growing awareness of politics and social justice, sparking questions that clashed with her upbringing and eventually led to estrangement. Her journey captures both the grief of losing family ties and the strength found in choosing authenticity, offering hope to anyone navigating the painful, but liberating, path of self-discovery.
Who Is Lauren?
Lauren Smallcomb is a certified Mind-Body Practitioner whose journey as a healer began at 20 when she became a registered nurse, dedicating a decade to caring for patients in the ER. She later expanded her expertise to become a birth doula and, eventually, a nutritional therapist. In 2020, after making the difficult decision to walk away from a dysfunctional family system, Lauren embarked on a transformative process of rebuilding her mind and body through brain retraining and trauma healing.
This journey inspired her to become a certified Mind-Body Practitioner. Her newfound sense of empowerment prompted Lauren and her therapist husband to establish Flourish Therapy, with the intention of helping others heal and thrive after childhood trauma. Born and raised in upstate New York, they now make their home in Northern Thailand with their children, two dogs, and a cat.
Connect With Us
Find out more about Lauren via her website - flourishtherapy.kartra.com/page/goldenchildYou can also connect on Instagram, Facebook, and Substack
You can find out more about Sam on her website – www.anchoredcounsellingservices.com.auTo connect with Sam on Instagram – @anchoredcounsellingservicesWant to contact with Sam about the podcast or therapy? Use this contact form.Also check out The Religious Trauma Collective