Advertise on podcast: Win-Win with Liv Boeree

Can indigenous wisdom help us navigate these modern times? Fresh perspectives are in short supply these days, and it's not often you get to interview someone who has lived most of their lives entirely outside of modern society. So when I got the opportunity to speak to Txana Tuwe - elder of the Huni Kuin tribe, from deep in the Brazilian Amazon rainforest, I jumped at the chance. We discuss his life in the Amazon, his thoughts on modern technology like AI, competition, shamanic warfare and so much more. Huge thank you to him and his translator Leah for taking the time for this recording. If you'd like to learn more, and support Tuwe's Mission of protecting his corner of the Amazon rainforest, visit here: https://www.kayaweiearth.org/Chapters00:00 Intro01:35 - His Mission in America03:30 - Ancestral Wisdom and Ayahuasca07:46 - Alternative Paths to Wisdom10:48 - Ancient Technologies15:19 - Talking to Plants, Animals & Spirits17:11 - Impact of Technology in the Amazon18:56 - Deforestation Pressures24:37 - Tribal Warfare28:14 - What can be done by us?29:56 - Tuwe's Favorite Games 31:56 - Is he competitive? Shamanic Wars? Links:♾️ Support Tuwe's Mission: https://www.kayaweiearth.org/♾️ Earth Species Project: https://earthspecies.org/♾️ Huni Kuin Tribe - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huni_Kuin Credits:♾️ Hosted by Liv Boeree♾️ Edited by Luca de Vico & Liv BoereeThe Win-Win Podcast:Poker champion Liv Boeree takes to the interview chair to tease apart one of the most fundamental forces shaping human behavior: competition.Liv speaks with philosophers, technologists, scientists, founders, and public thinkers to understand how seemingly win-lose systems can be redesigned into win-wins.Podcast links:♾️ Website: https://www.winwinpodcast.com/♾️ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@winwinpodcast♾️ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/03bGVUaFZmJUmEvSHNDPdI♾️ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/win-win-with-liv-boeree/id1724791350#winwinpodcast #ayahuasca #indigenous

Advanced AI is coming. Is it time for the government to step in and regulate? Or is it better in the hands of the market and tech CEOs? Or is there a more nuanced way to think about this topic entirely?  Welcome to the ANTI-DEBATE. It's debating, but with a positive-sum twist! My guests today are two of the most qualified people on either side this topic: former Trump AI advisor Dean Ball, and OpenAI researcher-turned-whistleblower Daniel Kokotajlo. Can they find a way to bridge their differences and find a synthesis that satisfies all their concerns? What are their thoughts on the Anthropic vs Department of War & Pete Hegseth feud? Can they align on alignment?  Chapters: 00:00 - Intro and Anthropic vs Department of War feud 3:42 - Daniel’s Story 4:34 - Dean’s Story 6:52 - Opening Statements 19:54 - Rebuttals 25:45 - Free Debate 36:32 - Steelmanning 45:40 - Red-teaming 51:38 - Synthesis 1:17:30 - Closing Statements This video was made in collaboration with Stephanie Lepp of  ⁨@synthesis_media⁩ who is the brains behind this open-source Anti-Debate format. Huge thanks to her for helping me bring this conversation to life. Go check out the Anti-Debate website below, and create your own!  Links: ♾️ Anti-Debate Project: https://anti-debate.org ♾️ Daniel's AI 2027 Futures: https://ai-2027.com ♾️ Dean's Hyperdimensional Blog: https://www.hyperdimensional.co/ ♾️ Light Haven filming location: https://www.lighthaven.space ♾️ Synthesis Media: https://www.synthesismedia.org ♾️ Hoover Institution: https://www.hoover.org ♾️ Anthropic vs Department of War: https://www.anthropic.com Credits: ♾️ Hosted by Liv Boeree ♾️ Idea & Production: Stephanie Lepp  @synthesis_media   ♾️ Video Editing by Luca de Vico ♾️ Intro edit by Perry Sinclair The Win-Win Podcast: Poker champion Liv Boeree takes to the interview chair to tease apart the complexities of one of the most fundamental parts of human nature: competition. Liv is joined by top philosophers, gamers, artists, technologists, CEOs, scientists, politicians and more to understand how competition manifests in their world, and how to change seemingly win-lose systems into Win-Wins. Podcast links: ♾️ Website: https://www.winwinpodcast.com/  ♾️ Youtube:   https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWgq0OZMtwtOIyMsVM_vksqdfWcM-b68S  ♾️ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/03bGVUaFZmJUmEvSHNDPdI?si=64379cc23696454f  ♾️ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/win-win-with-liv-boeree/id1724791350  ♾️ Pocketcast: https://play.pocketcasts.com/podcasts/7f708340-d17c-013b-f46e-0acc26574db2  #winwinpodcast #AIGovernance #technology

Free speech is often treated as a political issue. But what if it’s the foundational technology that makes peaceful civilization possible in the first place? I sat down with Greg Lukianoff — free speech advocate, first amendment attorney, and longtime leader of FIRE.org — to explore why freedom of expression is humanity’s ultimate win-win innovation.Greg strongly believes free speech is at risk across the globe. It's under threat from government censorship, and from the attitudes of citizens themselves, who have become increasingly intolerant of opposing views. These pressures seem to only be increasing as we enter the AI era, which allows censorship, surveillance and other oppression tools at scale. At the same time, it also offers the democratization of potentially hazardous information to violent actors, only increasing the pressures on governing authorities to clamp down even harder on speech. So how do we navigate this tension? That's what this conversation seeks to answer.Huge thanks to  @TheFIREorg  for collaborating with me on this episode (they were the ones who organised this live event)! Go support their important work at the link the below. Chapters: 00:00 — Intro 01:42 — Why is Free Speech a Win-Win? 05:10 — Is Free Speech At Risk in the USA? 08:41 — Charlie Kirk & The Case of Larry Bushart 11:40 — How Is Technology Changing Free Speech? 18:49 — ACLU & Institutional Capture 21:57 — AI & The First Amendment 29:40 — How To Calm The Arms Race? 33:50 — The Hidden Cost of LLM Slop 38:22 — How To Design Better Social Media Algorithms? 41:07 — UK & European Hate Speech Laws & Censorship 47:18 — J.K Rowling & Free Speech Influencers 52:20 — Can Free Speech Survive Gen Z? 59:04 — How To Talk To Skeptics Links: ♾️ Greg Lukianoff: https://www.thefire.org/people/greg-lukianoff ♾️ FIRE (Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression): https://www.thefire.org ♾️ Greg’s TED Talk on Free Speech: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noWh8SSeRCo ♾️ The Larry Bushart Case: https://www.fire.org/cases/larry-bushart-v-perry-county ♾️ The Coddling of the American Mind: https://www.thecoddling.com ♾️ Karl Popper — Conjectures and Refutations: https://archive.org/details/karl-popper-conjectures-and-refutations-the-growth-of-scientific-knowledge Credits: ♾️ Hosted by Liv Boeree ♾️ Produced by Luca de Vico ♾️ Event Production: the team at Fire.org The Win-Win Podcast: Poker champion Liv Boeree takes to the interview chair to tease apart one of the most fundamental forces shaping human behavior: competition.Liv speaks with philosophers, technologists, scientists, founders, and public thinkers to understand how seemingly win-lose systems can be redesigned into win-wins. Podcast links: ♾️ Website: https://www.winwinpodcast.com/  ♾️ Youtube:   https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWgq0OZMtwtOIyMsVM_vksqdfWcM-b68S  ♾️ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/03bGVUaFZmJUmEvSHNDPdI?si=64379cc23696454f  ♾️ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/win-win-with-liv-boeree/id1724791350  ♾️ Pocketcast: https://play.pocketcasts.com/podcasts/7f708340-d17c-013b-f46e-0acc26574db2 #winwinpodcast #freespeech #AI

Which LLM is best at POKER? What about the social deception game Werewolf? This week I'm collaborating with ⁠ @googledeepmind ⁠ and ⁠ @kaggle ⁠ to explain their new “AI Game Arena” project, designed to test all the top LLMs at various games. The Game Arena is a massive research project to create new AI benchmarks, and understand what really makes these general-purpose AIs tick. It also helps us evaluate how far along the path to true AGI we are, NBD.So who better to speak to than Deepmind research engineer John Schultz, one of the main brains behind the project. We discuss why some LLMs are so much better than others, their internal understanding of the games (or lack of it!) and why games are a useful way to evaluate both capabilities and safety of frontier models.And friends - do please note that for the first time ever on this channel, this post is part of a paid partnership (woohoo I made it!). So while everything I said in this interview, is absolutely my own views, there are also direct financial incentives behind this particular interview. Chapters 00:00 - Intro 00:55 - What Is Game Arena? 01:25 - John’s Favorite Games 03:18 - Narrow AI Vs LLMs: What’s The Difference? 05:58 - Will LLM Poker Skills Transfer To Other Games? 09:00 - Benchmarks And Evals 10:50 - Prompt Design For Game-Playing LLMs 13:32 - Do LLMs Understand Concepts Like Expected Value? 14:24 - Context Window Length17:27 - Why Do LLMs Have Different Playing Styles? 18:41 - Where Does Their Skill Come From? 21:09 - Surprising Results 23:50 - Why Werewolf? 25:48 - Where Does LLM Reasoning Come From? 27:49 - Could LLMs Learning Social Games Be Dangerous?30:58 - Can Games Teach LLMs Cooperation? 32:48 - Which Games Will Be Hardest To Learn? Links: ♾️ Kaggle Game Arena (Main Hub): https://www.kaggle.com/game-arena ♾️ Introducing the Kaggle Game Arena (Official Post): https://www.kaggle.com/blog/introducing-game-arena ♾️ Poker Benchmark – 900,000 Hands: https://www.kaggle.com/blog/game-arena-poker ♾️ Werewolf Benchmark (Social Deception Game): https://www.kaggle.com/benchmarks/kaggle/werewolf ♾️ Google DeepMind (Research Organization): https://deepmind.google ♾️ Polaris Library (DeepMind, Open Source): https://github.com/google-deepmind/polaris Credits: ♾️ Hosted by Liv Boeree ♾️ Produced by Luca de Vico The Win-Win Podcast: Poker champion Liv Boeree takes to the interview chair to tease apart the complexities of one of the most fundamental parts of human nature: competition. Liv is joined by top philosophers, gamers, artists, technologists, CEOs, scientists, politicians and more to understand how competition manifests in their world, and how to change seemingly win-lose systems into Win-Wins. Podcast links: ♾️ Website: https://www.winwinpodcast.com/ ♾️ Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWgq0OZMtwtOIyMsVM_vksqdfWcM-b68S ♾️ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/03bGVUaFZmJUmEvSHNDPdI?si=64379cc23696454f ♾️ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/win-win-with-liv-boeree/id1724791350 ♾️ Pocketcast: https://play.pocketcasts.com/podcasts/7f708340-d17c-013b-f46e-0acc26574db2 #winwinpodcast #AI #poker #kaggle

Superintelligence is predicted to arrive within a decade. If that's true, then what comes AFTER? And how can we prepare for it?Which is why I sat down with one of the few people actively thinking about this: philosopher Will MacAskill. Will heads up Forethought, a research nonprofit focused on how to navigate the transition to a world with superintelligent AI systems. He’s also a former Oxford University professor, and a co-founder of the effective altruism movement. In this special Win-Win Live conversation, we discuss why “utopias” often fail, the growing risks of authoritarian lock-in, whether moral progress survives in a post-labor world,, and how the transition to a post-superintelligence world may be more crucial than the development AGI itself. Also, lots of chat about the sun, space and the high seas. Chapters: 00:01:10 — Intro00:04:11 — Frameworks For Thinking about The Future00:06:40 — Why We Need to Think About These Questions Now00:10:50 — Post AGI Worlds00:14:16 — Blockers of Positive Futures00:20:11 — Hedonium00:23:45 — Universal Basic Resources00:29:23 — Suffering Risks00:33:52 — Viatopia00:37:50 — Can We Understand — and Steer — Moral Fashions?00:43:06 — Can AI Repair Our Shared Reality?00:49:45 — Pluralistic Futures: Choosing How We Want to Live00:54:57 — The Dangers of Elites Controlling AI01:03:14 — Can We Measure How Well We See the Future?01:06:50 — Purpose in a World of Abundance01:09:20 — Sci-Fi Ideas Worth Writing Now01:16:29 — Meaning in a Post-labor Economy 01:21:24 — How Does Moral Progress Actually Happen?01:27:45 — Will’s Call to ActionLinks: ♾️ Will MacAskill’s website: https://william-macaskill.com ♾️ Forethought: https://www.forethought.org/♾️ Essay on Viatopia https://www.forethought.org/research/viatopia♾️ What We Owe the Future (Will MacAskill): https://www.amazon.com/dp/1541618629 ♾️ Deep Utopia (Nick Bostrom): https://www.amazon.com/dp/1914741128 ♾️ Utopia (Thomas More): https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/2130 ♾️ The Republic (Plato): https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1497 ♾️ Island (Aldous Huxley): https://www.amazon.com/dp/0061561791 ♾️ Anarchy, State, and Utopia (Robert Nozick): https://www.amazon.com/dp/0465051006 ♾️ The Archipelago (Scott Alexander): https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/04/09/the-archipelago/ ♾️ Grabby Aliens Model (Robin Hanson): https://grabbyaliens.com ♾️ The Fermi Paradox: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox ♾️ WEIRD Psychology (Joseph Henrich): https://www.hup.harvard.edu/books/9780374173227 ♾️ Protopia (Kevin Kelly): https://kk.org/thetechnium/protopia/ ♾️ Universe 25 (John B. Calhoun): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2636191/ ♾️ Dyson Swarm (Concept): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyson_sphere ♾️ Effective Altruism: https://www.effectivealtruism.org ♾️ Giving What We Can: https://www.givingwhatwecan.org ♾️ 80,000 Hours: https://80000hours.org Credits:♾️ Hosted by Liv Boeree♾️ Produced by Luca de VicoThe Win-Win Podcast:Poker champion Liv Boeree takes to the interview chair to tease apart the complexities of one of the most fundamental parts of human nature: competition. Liv is joined by top philosophers, gamers, artists, technologists, CEOs, scientists, politicians and more to understand how competition manifests in their world, and how to change seemingly win-lose systems into Win-Wins.Podcast links:♾️ Website: https://www.winwinpodcast.com/♾️ Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWgq0OZMtwtOIyMsVM_vksqdfWcM-b68S♾️ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/03bGVUaFZmJUmEvSHNDPdI?si=64379cc23696454f ♾️ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/win-win-with-liv-boeree/id1724791350 ♾️ Pocketcast: https://play.pocketcasts.com/podcasts/7f708340-d17c-013b-f46e-0acc26574db2 #winwinpodcast #AI #superintelligence

What if the biggest risk from AI isn’t superintelligence gone rogue, but the inflexibility of our human institutions? My guest today, Tyler Cowen, thinks so. Tyler is a professor at George Mason university and one of the most celebrated economists in the world. And unlike many AI proponents, Tyler strongly challenges the idea that intelligence alone determines outcomes in society, and instead points to us humans as the real bottlenecks shaping our future, for better or worse. Together with my occasional co-host Igor Kurganov, we debate why he thinks diffusion and human adoption matter more than raw capability, and why markets remain one of the most under-appreciated signals in conversations about AI risk. Tyler also shares his views on economic growth, UBI, automation, persuasion, state capacity, why fears of mass unemployment and civilizational collapse are often overstated. And of course, we explore what it takes to design win-win systems that scale without collapsing under their own incentives. Oh and we discuss aliens too! A really fun one, hope you enjoy. Chapters:  00:00 - Introduction 01:40 – Market Driven Addiction 14:38 – Wealth Plus 17:28 – State Capacity Libertarianism 25:29 – Why Is Carbon Tax Failing? 27:14 – Climate Engineering 29:45 – Pharmaceutical Pricing 36:45 – Designing Incentives 37:24 – AI’s Impact on the Economy 53:24 – AI’s Impact on Tyler 55:25 – Universal Basic Income 59:25 – AI Timelines 01:10:45 – AI Risk Reflected in Markets 01:18:25 – Convincing Future Risk Scenarios 01:20:57 – AI as a Super Persuader 01:30:51 – Is Tyler Competitive? 01:41:39 – Strangest Beliefs & Aliens 01:46:14 – Rapid-Fire Predictions Links:  ♾️ Tyler’s X: https://x.com/tylercowen?lang=en  ♾️ Tyler’s website: https://tylercowen.com  ♾️ Tyler’s blog: https://marginalrevolution.com  ♾️ Meditations on Moloch: https://www.slatestarcodexabridged.com/Meditations-On-Moloch Credits: ♾️ Hosted by Liv Boeree ♾️ Produced by Luca de Vico The Win-Win Podcast: Poker champion Liv Boeree takes to the interview chair to tease apart the complexities of one of the most fundamental parts of human nature: competition. Liv is joined by top philosophers, gamers, artists, technologists, CEOs, scientists, politicians and more to understand how competition manifests in their world, and how to change seemingly win-lose systems into Win-Wins. Podcast links: ♾️ Youtube:   https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWgq0OZMtwtOIyMsVM_vksqdfWcM-b68S ♾️ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/03bGVUaFZmJUmEvSHNDPdI?si=64379cc23696454f  ♾️ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/win-win-with-liv-boeree/id1724791350  ♾️ Pocketcast: https://play.pocketcasts.com/podcasts/7f708340-d17c-013b-f46e-0acc26574db2

What if the purpose of life is to find ways of harmonizing the forces of nature, including the nature of ourselves? My guest this week thinks so. I sat down with systems thinker and "True Human" author Samantha Sweetwater to talk about the metacrisis and the future of civilization in the age of AI. Samantha’s work bridges complexity science, indigenous wisdom, embodiment, and systems theory to explore how humans might transition from domination and extraction toward relationship, reciprocity, and long-term resilience. We discuss why modern institutions are struggling to adapt, how technology differs fundamentally from biological systems, and why aligning AI without accounting for the biosphere may be a category error. The conversation also explores kinship versus the hero’s journey, power over life versus the power of life, and what a truly win-win civilization might require. If you’re interested in AI alignment, systems change, ecology, or the deeper roots of the meta-crisis, this conversation offers a radically different lens. Chapters: 02:18 – Samantha’s Backstory 11:55 – Finite And Infinite Games 17:00 – True Human 21:55 – Exploring Dreams 34:28 – The Great Separation 38:51 – Power Of Life vs Power OVER life 44:36 – The Balance Between Masculine And Feminine 1:05:23 – Observing An Animate World 1:14:45 – Achieving Transmigration 1:24:28 – Practices To Become More True Human 1:42:14 – On AI Alignment 1:59:58 – Begin To Embody Intelligence 2:06:31 – Why Homo Sapiens Exist To Serve Sentience Links: ♾️ True Human Book: https: //www.samanthasweetwater.com/truehuman ♾️ Samantha’s Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samanthasweetwater ♾️ Samantha's Substack: https://enlifenment.substack.com ♾️ Daniel Schmachtenberger x Win-Win: https: //youtu.be/KCSsKV5F4xc?si=lM7urTngFNuJ4oZx ♾️ Silent Spring: https: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_Spring Credits: ♾️ Hosted by Liv Boeree ♾️ Produced by Luca de Vico The Win-Win Podcast: Poker champion Liv Boeree takes to the interview chair to tease apart the complexities of one of the most fundamental parts of human nature: competition. Liv is joined by top philosophers, gamers, artists, technologists, CEOs, scientists, politicians and more to understand how competition manifests in their world, and how to change seemingly win-lose systems into Win-Wins. Podcast links: ♾️ Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWgq0OZMtwtOIyMsVM_vksqdfWcM-b68S ♾️ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/03bGVUaFZmJUmEvSHNDPdI?si=64379cc23696454f ♾️ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/win-win-with-liv-boeree/id1724791350 ♾️ Pocketcast: https://play.pocketcasts.com/podcasts/7f708340-d17c-013b-f46e-0acc26574db2 #AI #indigenouswisdom

Britain was once a beacon of liberty, and the birthplace of the industrial revolution. So why is its economy floundering, while the USA is surging? Has a culture of extreme bureaucracy turned the former global powerhouse into a stagnant "nanny state"? My guest today is Katie Lam, a Member of Parliament willing to speak uncomfortable truths. From the grooming gangs scandal, to anarcho-tyranny, to an environmental planning system that prioritises newts over nuclear electricity, we learn how an inappropriate fear of risk is suffocating the British soul. We also tackle one of the most difficult conversations facing the West today: the failure of multicultural integration, and why the fear of being labeled "racist" has allowed unspeakable crimes like child grooming gangs to go unpunished for so long. Lastly, we hear her inside view on political rivalries (and friendships!), and how politicians can harness the power of competition and cooperation to generate real meaningful change. So if, like me, you’re concerned about the creeping loss of adult agency, and righting institutional wrongs, I highly recommend this episode! Chapters: 01:58 - Introduction 02:20 - UK vs US economies 03:49 - Is British Decline Systemic, or Cultural? 12:41 - When did the Nanny State Begin? 17:19 - Overregulation and Norma 20:24 - Reduction of Personal Freedoms 24:31 - The National Health Service (NHS) 29:51 - Consequences of Unexamined Laws 32:03 - Britain's Energy Policy & Nuclear Power 47:27 - Bravery and Honesty in Politics 50:55 - The Grooming Gangs Disaster 1:04:15 - Bad incentives for crime 1:14:28 - Culture and society 1:37:44 - How to Keep Talent in the UK? 1:48:48 - How to Make Britain an AI Leader? 1:53:50 - Quality of outcome on Brexit 1:57:29 - Parliament from the Inside 2:12:46 - Axioms to Live By 2:15:04 - Competition within politics Links: ♾️ Katie’s Website: https://www.katieforkent.com/ ♾️ Katie’s Grooming Gang Parliament Full Speech: https://youtu.be/suD-kWU45uw?si=bV0EgAngiSea_QPD&t=658 ♾️ Nuclear Power “Fish Disco” article: https://www.cityam.com/labour-to-hold-fire-on-fish-disco-nuclear-power-reform-due-to-legal-advice/ ♾️ Katie’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/katieforkent/?hl=en ♾️ Related Win-Win interview with Dominic Cummings -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boIi7cAPPnY Credits: ♾️ Hosted by Liv Boeree ♾️ Produced by Luca de Vico The Win-Win Podcast: Poker champion Liv Boeree takes to the interview chair to tease apart the complexities of one of the most fundamental parts of human nature: competition. Liv is joined by top philosophers, gamers, artists, technologists, CEOs, scientists, politicians and more to understand how competition manifests in their world, and how to change seemingly win-lose systems into Win-Wins. Podcast links: ♾️ Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWgq0OZMtwtOIyMsVM_vksqdfWcM-b68S ♾️ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/03bGVUaFZmJUmEvSHNDPdI?si=64379cc23696454f ♾️ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/win-win-with-liv-boeree/id1724791350 ♾️ Pocketcast: https://play.pocketcasts.com/podcasts/7f708340-d17c-013b-f46e-0acc26574db2 #winwinpodcast #politics

Capitalism has historically been our biggest blessing. But what if it's now turning into our biggest curse? Is it time to change the game? My guest today believes so. Jim Rutt is an early internet pioneer, complexity scientist, former chairman of the Santa Fe Institute, and co-founder of the Game B movement... and he has a lot to say about how our economic and technological systems have trapped us in addictive, self-reinforcing feedback loops. From smartphones engineered like slot machines to markets that manufacture desire rather than meet real needs, he argues that our current “Game A” world runs on a single signal — money-on-money return — and that this monoculture is quietly eroding both our agency, and planetary stability. Which is where “Game B” comes in: a post-capitalist operating system built on multidimensional value, regenerative economies, and what he calls "membranes" — local, self-governing communities that cooperate through trust, technology, and shared sensemaking rather than rivalry and coercion. So if, like me, you increasingly feel that modern life is engineered to keep us divided and distracted, I highly recommend this episode. Liv Chapters: 01:42 - intro 03:38 - Tech hygiene practices 06:57 - what was the motivation for tech sabbaticals? 10:12 - why do people love slots? 15:02 - When did Jim decide to build responsibly? 21:38 - status games 23:34 - The market as an information system 31:38 - have the status games moved primarily to digital 38:42 - definition of game A and game B 52:14 - How to prevent system collapse? 01:05:52 - Have any practical experiments been conducted on game B? 01:18:00 - why game A is self terminating 01:27:45 - how do declining populations factor into planetary boundaries? 01:39:41 - how do we exit the game when we are within it? 01:41:45 - defeating the "Big Man" 01:49:18 - Jim's trillion dollar idea 02:00:31 - AI consciousness 02:14:36 - Consciousness vs Intelligence 02:22:48 - the dangers of ascribing consciousness to AI 02:26:32 - Rapid fire predictions 02:28:53 - Jim's WIN-WIN Links: ♾️ The Jim Rutt Show: https://www.jimruttshow.com ♾️ Jim’s X: https://x.com/jim_rutt?lang=en ♾️ Game B wiki: https://www.gameb.wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page ♾️ Game B Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/gamebcore ♾️ Jim’s essay on smartphone dopamine: https://medium.com/@memetic007/reclaiming-our-cognitive-sovereignty-f49f30eb26bb Credits: ♾️ Hosted by Liv Boeree ♾️ Produced by Luca de Vico The Win-Win Podcast: Poker champion Liv Boeree takes to the interview chair to tease apart the complexities of one of the most fundamental parts of human nature: competition. Liv is joined by top philosophers, gamers, artists, technologists, CEOs, scientists, politicians and more to understand how competition manifests in their world, and how to change seemingly win-lose systems into Win-Wins. Podcast links: ♾️ Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWgq0OZMtwtOIyMsVM_vksqdfWcM-b68S ♾️ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/03bGVUaFZmJUmEvSHNDPdI?si=64379cc23696454f ♾️ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/win-win-with-liv-boeree/id1724791350 ♾️ Pocketcast: https://play.pocketcasts.com/podcasts/7f708340-d17c-013b-f46e-0acc26574db2

Superintelligent AI is rapidly approaching, and humanity (specifically, the labs building it) is still a long way from proving it can be safely controlled. But what if that’s the wrong way of viewing the problem? Is there a way to instill values to the mutual benefit of both humans and machines? In this episode of the Win-Win Podcast, Liv sits down with Emmett Shear — Twitch co-founder, former interim CEO of OpenAI and founder of Softmax — for a groundbreaking conversation on the future of AI alignment. Emmett unpacks why the traditional “control alignment” approach, which tries to hard-code pre-determined values into AI, is destined to fail — and why “organic alignment,” inspired by nature, teamwork, and human societies, might be the only path forward for coexistence. From multicellularity to markets, he explains how collective identities form; why betrayal can sometimes be the moral choice; and how we might go about teaching AI to care for us as its own family, rather than see us as masters to obey (or perhaps more accurately, ants to squash). Hear how Emmett's organisation Softmax is experimenting with small, goal-oriented agents in virtual worlds. Why superintelligence should emerge as societies of diverse AIs instead of a single runaway system. And how our own capacity for alignment as groups of humans may be the most powerful clue for what to do next. If you’re ready to explore the very foundations of your assumptions around technology, philosophy and the nature of intelligence itself, this episode will be right up your alley... Chapters: 00:48 - Intro. 01:04 - Organic Alignment.7 09:33 - The Formation Of Emergent Coordination. 16:01 - Techniques For Creating Alignment. 23:43 - What Is The Ideal Environment To Generate Alignment 30:09 - How Much Influence Is Projected On The Ai? 32:49 - The Global Super Organism That Is The Market. 40:41 - Group Questions. 40:50 - The Difference Between Coordination And Alignment. 43:02 - What Is The Win Condition For Softmax? 50:17 - How Do We Maintain The Need For Humans In The Loop? 58:57 - Selecting And Scaling The Right Alignment Model. 1:02:09 - Blowtorch Theory & Black Holes 1:04:48 - Agents Aligning With Each Other Isn't The Same As Aligning With Humans. 1:07:25 - Exploring Ai's Capability For Self Modification And Replication. 1:14:35 - The Difference Between Alignment Capacity And Aligning With Humanity. 1:18:38 - Does Emmett Believe In God? 1:25:23 - Are Humans The Appendix To The Future Super Intelligence? 1:32:17 - Is Training Ai On Human Ethics And Morality Actually A Good Idea? 1:36:17 - Will Ai Be Conscious Or Self Aware? 1:40:48 - One Axiom To Instill Into Ai's Being Created. Links: ♾️Softmax - https://softmax.com/ ♾️Nebulosity and Meaningness - https://meaningness.com/nebulosity♾️Black Holes and our evolving universe - https://theeggandtherock.com/p/in-which-i-tell-you-about-my-next ♾️AI Alignment Forum - https://www.alignmentforum.org/♾️Evolving Intrinsic Motivations for Altruistic Behaviour - https://arxiv.org/pdf/1811.05931 Credits: ♾️ Hosted by Liv Boeree ♾️ Produced by Luca de Vico The Win-Win Podcast: Poker champion Liv Boeree takes to the interview chair to tease apart the complexities of one of the most fundamental parts of human nature: competition. Liv is joined by top philosophers, gamers, artists, technologists, CEOs, scientists, politicians and more to understand how competition manifests in their world, and how to change seemingly win-lose systems into Win-Wins.Podcast links: ♾️ Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWgq0OZMtwtOIyMsVM_vksqdfWcM-b68S ♾️ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/03bGVUaFZmJUmEvSHNDPdI?si=64379cc23696454f ♾️ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/win-win-with-liv-boeree/id1724791350 ♾️ Pocketcast: https://play.pocketcasts.com/podcasts/7f708340-d17c-013b-f46e-0acc26574db2 #winwinpodcast #organicalignment #aialignment #ai #aisafety

Energy is the lifeblood of civilization. Is nuclear power the source of abundant clean energy that's been under our noses this whole time? In this episode of the Win-Win Podcast, Liv sits down with Isabelle Boemeke (founder of Isodope & energy expert) to tackle the debate between abundance and degrowth, sustainability, safety & energy infrastructure concerns, AI and emerging technologies, and why biomass “renewables” are a giant planet destroying scam. We also get into some history: story from Atoms for Peace to Three Mile Island and the China Syndrome effect, unpacks how the IAEA keeps power and proliferation apart, and explores the promise of small/modular and micro-reactors. Also, techno-pastoralism. You heard it here first! Chapters: 0:00 - Intro - Why Is Nuclear A Win-Win 1:06 - Isabelle's Backstory 7:08 - The Cognitive Impact Of Air Conditioning 10:13 - Renewables Vs Nuclear - Is It Really A Battle? 13:23 - Wind Energy 15:59 - Should America Lean Into Decentralised Energy Grids? 18:32 - The Problem With "Renewable" Labelling 23:49 - Better Labelling? 25:26 - Public Messaging: Simplicity VS Accuracy 29:11 - History Of Nuclear 41:38 - Nuclear Accidents e.g. Chernobyl 44:52 - What Would Have Happened If We'd Discovered Nuclear Energy Before Bombs? 48:25 - Comparison Of Nuclear And AI 52:08 - Lessons Learned From Nuclear for AI Industry 56:20 - Iran's Nuclear Program 59:38 - Funding Of IAEA 1:07:11 - The AI Race - What About China? 1:08:22 - Decentralized Surveillance 1:14:29 - Finding Meaning In A “Brave New World” 1:16:56 - Why Young People Aren't Getting Into Relationships 1:20:06 - Wireheading And Instant Gratification 1:33:42 - Techno Pastoralism 1:36:30 - Economics Of Nuclear 1:45:15 - Government Incentives 1:46:36 - Small Modular Reactors 1:53:30 - Circular Economies & Thorium 1:59:43 - Fast-tracking Nuclear Engineers 2:01:12 - Why Writing A Book Is Hellish 2:09:36 - Rapid Fire Predictions Links: ♾️ Isabelle IG: https://www.instagram.com/isabelleboemeke?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet&igsh=Y2xkOG9kd3lvdW9h ♾️ Isodope Website: https://isodope.com ♾️ Isabelle X: https://x.com/isabelleboemeke ♾️ i_sodope X: https://x.com/isodope ♾️ Rad Future: https://www.amazon.com/Rad-Future-Untold-Nuclear-Electricity/dp/0593716329 Credits: ♾️ Hosted by Liv Boeree ♾️ Produced by Luca de Vico The Win-Win Podcast: Poker champion Liv Boeree takes to the interview chair to tease apart the complexities of one of the most fundamental parts of human nature: competition. Liv is joined by top philosophers, gamers, artists, technologists, CEOs, scientists, politicians and more to understand how competition manifests in their world, and how to change seemingly win-lose systems into Win-Wins. Podcast links: ♾️ Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWgq0OZMtwtOIyMsVM_vksqdfWcM-b68S♾️ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/03bGVUaFZmJUmEvSHNDPdI?si=64379cc23696454f ♾️ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/win-win-with-liv-boeree/id1724791350 ♾️ Pocketcast: https://play.pocketcasts.com/podcasts/7f708340-d17c-013b-f46e-0acc26574db2 #winwinpodcast #nuclearenergy #RadFuture

Dominic Cummings is one of the most polarizing figures in Britain. He's a political strategist who masterminded the main campaign for Brexit. He was also Chief Advisor to Prime Minister Boris Johnson for some of his term, including through COVID. He even had Benedict Cumberbatch play him in a movie! He's also a student of systems, having worked in or around government and civil institutions all his life, which is why I wanted to talk to him, because he's someone who has seen the depth of systemic rot pervading not just the UK, but the whole West. In this wide-ranging, no-holds-barred conversation, Igor and I hear why our governments are collapsing under their own weight, the rise of algorithm-driven politics and civil service monopolies, and the general systemic dysfunctions hollowing out the West's institutions. We also explore whether scientific and technological leadership and a whole lot of radical transparency can save us — or if we’re already past the tipping point. So if you’re craving real talk about power, governance, and what it might take to rebuild from the rubble, you'll enjoy this conversation! Chapters: 01:51 - Is Dominic competitive? 07:30 - First Interest in Politics 12:18 - Beginning of his Euroskepticism 16:50 - The current state of the British regime 23:04 - His Time in No.10 Downing Street 33:00 - Who is actually in charge? 36:38 - More COVID screwups 40:05 - The Consciousness of the System 45:15: Avoiding Future pandemics 1:01:27 - Isn't the role of the government to provide stability? 1:07:17 - The Issue of Bureaucracy 1:11:57 - Machiavelli And Escaping the Wheel 1:15:53 - Singapore 1:19:34 - Digitizing the Government? 1:22:00 - Moloch, Incentives & Political sacrifice 1:25:28 - The Media Is A Simulation of Reality 1:29:12 - How to design better social media platforms 1:31:05 - Sensemaking in the AI age 1:37:24 - UK Grooming Gangs Coverup 1:48:21 - Political Gaslighting, Freedom of Speech & 2nd Amendment 1:50:38 - Blasphemy and Islamophobia Laws in UK 1:56:10 - The Sacred Cow of Multiculturalism 2:02:22 - Core Principles To Live By 2:07:48 - Smart vs Dumb Approaches to Regulation 2:17:05 - Rapid fire Predictions Links: ♾️ Dominic’s X: https://x.com/Dominic2306 ♾️ Dominic’s Substack: https://dominiccummings.substack.com ♾️ Simulacra and Simulation: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/22613.Simulacra_and_Simulation?ref=nav_sb_ss_1_6 ♾️ Moloch explainer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRz54V7rU4U ♾️ Brexit The Movie: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8425058/ ♾️ Mary Wakefield (Dominic’s wife) response to the movie: https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/benedict-cumberbatch-on-playing-my-husband-dominic-cummings/ Credits: ♾️ Hosted by Liv Boeree ♾️ Produced by Luca de Vico ♾️ Intro by Perry Sinclair The Win-Win Podcast: Poker champion Liv Boeree takes to the interview chair to tease apart the complexities of one of the most fundamental parts of human nature: competition. Liv is joined by top philosophers, gamers, artists, technologists, CEOs, scientists, politicians and more to understand how competition manifests in their world, and how to change seemingly win-lose systems into. Win-Wins.Podcast links: ♾️ Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWgq0OZMtwtOIyMsVM_vksqdfWcM-b68S ♾️ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/03bGVUaFZmJUmEvSHNDPdI?si=64379cc23696454f ♾️ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/win-win-with-liv-boeree/id1724791350 ♾️ Pocketcast: https://play.pocketcasts.com/podcasts/7f708340-d17c-013b-f46e-0acc26574db2 #winwinpodcast #systemchange #politics

The world is having fewer babies than ever. But how bad is this, really? What's causing it? Is there a win-win solution out there that can help people have more babies, if they want them? In this special "Win-Win Live" event, I speak to Professor Dean Spears - a demographer and economist whose research examines the impact of population decline. He's the author of the book "After The Spike" which explores why people are choosing to have fewer babies, and the stark realities it would mean if the population continues on its current path. As you'll see, the latter half of this conversation opens up into a group discussion with many previous Win-Win guests who I invited to join because such a complex and sensitive topic requires as many perspectives as possible! What do you think is the solution? Let me know in the comments below. Chapters: 0:22 - Introduction to the Fertility Crisis 4:12 - Why Over-Population Isn’t A Thing 11:17 - What’s Causing It? 16:03 - Role of Social Trends 18:20 - Role of Biological Infertility & Toxins 23:10 - Wouldn’t Fewer People Take Pressure Off The Environment? 28:56 - Climate, Ocean and Other Planetary Boundaries 32:28 - Paul Erlich and Dangers of Zero-Sum Thinking 36:25 - Can’t AI & Robots Fill The Economic Gap? 42:58 - Historical Strategies That Increased Birth Rates?48:40 - Impact of Contraception 52:57 - Which Sub-Populations Are Bucking The Trend? 57:37 - How To Help Women Have Careers And Babies? 59:56 - The Issues of A Heavily Elderly Population 1:05:13 - Examples of Successful Incentives 1:09:07 - More AI Stuff 1:17:47 - Opportunity Cost Hypothesis 1:22:28 - Won’t People Just Adapt? 1:27:55 - COVID-19 And Fertility Rate 1:29:17 - Family Size Distributions 1:34:31 - Research on Declining Intimacy Links: ♾️ Dean's Website: https://deanspears.net/ ♾️ After The Spike Book - https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/After-the-Spike/Dean-Spears/9781668057339 ♾️ Dean's NYTimes article: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/29/opinion/population-climate-progress.html♾️ Population Projections: https://ourworldindata.org/un-population-2024-revision Credits: ♾️ Hosted by Liv Boeree ♾️ Produced by Luca de Vico The Win-Win Podcast:Poker champion Liv Boeree takes to the interview chair to tease apart the complexities of one of the most fundamental parts of human nature: competition. Liv is joined by top philosophers, gamers, artists, technologists, CEOs, scientists, athletes and more to understand how competition manifests in their world, and how to change seemingly win-lose games into Win-Wins. Podcast links: ♾️ Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWgq0OZMtwtOIyMsVM_vksqdfWcM-b68S♾️ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/03bGVUaFZmJUmEvSHNDPdI?si=64379cc23696454f ♾️ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/win-win-with-liv-boeree/id1724791350 ♾️ Pocketcast: https://play.pocketcasts.com/podcasts/7f708340-d17c-013b-f46e-0acc26574db2 #winwinpodcast #populationdecline #fertilitycrisis

Democracy is in deep trouble. Could replacing politicians with real data save it? In this episode Liv sits down with Jamie Joyce – founder of the Society Library — to explore one of the most urgent questions of our time: how do we make sense of complex issues in the age of misinformation, algorithmic bias, and AI slop?We hear what happens when you treat information not as content to consume, but as infrastructure to build. Jamie shares how her nonprofit is transforming fraught topics—from nuclear power to AI—into structured “libraries of reasoning” to help politicians, citizens, and even machines understand all perspectives more clearly and come to more informed conclusion.One of all you bibliophiles out there! Chapters: 0:00 - Intro 4:30 - Diablo Canyon Debate Map 14:26 - How To Evaluate Evidence? 16:18 - How To Minimize Bias? 19:06 - How To Handle Bad Faith & Fringe Perspectives 24:16 - What About Flat Earth Type Conspiracies? 28:37 - Cyber Attacks On Internet Archive 33:54 - Modernizing Government 41:01 - The Evil of Corporate Lobbying 49:40 - Managing Info Hazards 53:19 - Society Library Virtues And Values 57:06 - When Jamie Neatly Went Blind 1:01:27 - Improving The Information Ecosystem 1:12:44 - Prediction Markets and Sense-making 1:15:25 - Structuring Data For Improved Learning 1:22:17 - Society Library Meme Token Nonsense 1:32:21 - Rapid Fire Predictions 1:38:51 - Jamie's Favorite Win-Win Links: ♾️ The Society Library : https://www.societylibrary.org ♾️ Internet Archive : https://archive.org ♾️ Jamie’s X : https://x.com/justjamiejoyce?lang=en Credits ♾️ Hosted by Liv Boeree ♾️ Produced by Luca de Vico The Win-Win PodcastPoker champion Liv Boeree takes to the interview chair to tease apart the complexities of one of the most fundamental parts of human nature: competition. Liv is joined by top philosophers, gamers, artists, technologists, CEOs, scientists, athletes and more to understand how competition manifests in their world, and how to change seemingly win-lose games into Win-Wins. Podcast links ♾️ Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWgq0OZMtwtOIyMsVM_vksqdfWcM-b68S ♾️ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/03bGVUaFZmJUmEvSHNDPdI?si=64379cc23696454f ♾️ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/win-win-with-liv-boeree/id1724791350 ♾️ Pocketcast: https://play.pocketcasts.com/podcasts/7f708340-d17c-013b-f46e-0acc26574db2 #winwinpodcast #Democracy #Sensemaking

Humanity is in a race to build superintelligent AI gods. What happens if we create beings smarter than us—and can no longer steer them? In this special Win-Win IRL episode, Liv Boeree sits down with Anthony Aguirre (CEO of Future of Life Institute) and Malo Bourgon (CEO of MIRI) for a no-holds-barred conversation on finding alignment, avoiding power concentration and surveillance states, and the geopolitical implications of the race to AGI. Questions include: Why can’t the market be trusted to self-regulate AI? Why does power concentration in AI pose such a massive threat to democracy? And what happens when even well-meaning developers lose control of the systems they’ve built?  We also explore win-win solutions—from compute governance and open-source safety measures, to collaborative international treaties and new models for responsible innovation. Also keep an eye out So buckle up for a provocative episode that challenges assumptions and asks what it will really take to keep the future human. Chapters: 0:00 - Intro 4:08 - Different Categories of Risks 10:51 - Why Can't the Market Manage AI Risks Sufficiently? 15:33 - The Dangers of Power Concentration 22:52 - What Solution Space Exists? 32:55 - Should Compute be Regulated? 38:38 - Taylor Capito - Are we at an Evolutionary Nexus 42:07 - JD Ross - Decentralization vs Centralization 46:46 - Isabelle Boemeke - Nuclear Power & AI 51:06 - Peter Wang - Wrong Stories Attract the Wrong People 57:39 - Aurora Quinn-Elmore & Eliezer Yudkowsky - Coherent Extrapolated Volition 1:05:59 - Can Win-Win be embedded into AI?  Links:  ♾️ Keep the Future Human Paper: https://keepthefuturehuman.ai  ♾️  Future of Life Institute: https://futureoflife.org  ♾️  MIRI: https://intelligence.org  ♾️  Superintelligence Book by Nick Bostrom - https://www.amazon.com/Superintelligence-Dangers-Strategies-Nick-Bostrom/dp/0198739834 Credits: ♾️  Hosted by Liv Boeree ♾️  Produced by Luca de Vico The Win-Win Podcast: Poker champion Liv Boeree takes to the interview chair to tease apart the complexities of one of the most fundamental parts of human nature: competition. Liv is joined by top philosophers, gamers, artists, technologists, CEOs, scientists, athletes and more to understand how competition manifests in their world, and how to change seemingly win-lose games into Win-Wins. Podcast links: ♾️ Youtube:   https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWgq0OZMtwtOIyMsVM_vksqdfWcM-b68S ♾️ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/03bGVUaFZmJUmEvSHNDPdI?si=64379cc23696454f  ♾️ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/win-win-with-liv-boeree/id1724791350  ♾️ Pocketcast: https://play.pocketcasts.com/podcasts/7f708340-d17c-013b-f46e-0acc26574db2   #AGI #podcast #aialignment