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Tobias Gehrke joins Emily and Geoff to debrief on the latest news on EU-China trade tensions. They discuss the EU-China deal on hybrid vehicles, the potential for further escalation between Brussels and Beijing, and why increasing alignment on concerns over China probably won’t lead to better U.S.-EU cooperation–even though it really ought to. Tobias Gehrke is a senior policy fellow at the European Council on Foreign Relations. He focuses on economic security, European economic strategy, and great power competition in the global economy. Mark Leonard, Surviving Chaos: Geopolitics When the Rules Fail Tobias Gehrke, “Stable decoupling: Three tests for Europe in the face of Chinese economic coercion,” European Council on Foreign Relations French-German Non-Paper, Strengthening European resilience, addressing global macroeconomic imbalances and market distorting practices Andrea Palasciano, Michael Nienaber, and Milda Seputyte, “EU to Boost Its Power to Block Chinese Goods in Trade Fight,” Bloomberg Edith Hancock, “EU Aims to Put Brakes on Chinese Hybrid-Vehicle Market Share With Import Cap,” Wall Street Journal Célia Belin, Chris Herrmann, and Nevada Joan Lee, Life of the party: Democrats and the search for a post-Trump future

China expert Logan Wright joins Emily and Geoff to talk about China’s broken economy. He explains why the country isn’t going back to high growth rates anytime soon, and what the structural issues driving China’s broken economy mean for U.S. economic and strategic interests. Logan’s new book is a must-read for anyone who wants to understand the U.S.-China relationship - how we got to where we are and how economic factors will drive the strategic relationship moving forward. Logan Wright is the author of Broken China: How the Economic Miracle Shattered and What It Means for the World (coming out this week!) and a partner at the Rhodium Group where he leads the China Markets Research work.   Logan Wright, Broken China: How the Economic Miracle Shattered and What It Means for the World Logan Wright, Rhodium Group Logan Wright, “China’s Moment of Weakness: Economic Decay and America’s Strategic Opening,” Foreign Affairs Endeavour Tian and Logan Wright, Examining China’s AI Financing, Rhodium Group Patrick McGee, Apple in China Yakov Feygin, Building a Ruin: The Cold War Politics of Soviet Economic Reform

Energy expert Francisco Monaldi joins Emily and Geoff to discuss the U.S. government’s unusual oil deal in Venezuela. They get into the decades of missteps and corruption that have hampered Venezuela’s oil sector, the deep seated institutional changes that would be needed to bring production back to historical levels, and why you probably shouldn’t assume the contract the U.S. government just signed will actually last 100 years, as it says on paper. Francisco J. Monaldi is the Wallace S. Wilson Fellow in Latin American Energy Policy and director of the Latin America Energy Program at the Center for Energy Studies at Rice University’s Baker Institute for Public Policy. Francisco Monaldi, Baker Institute for Public Policy The White House, Fact Sheet: President Donald J. Trump Announces Historic Oil Agreement to Secure American Energy Dominance and Drive Venezuela’s Economic Recovery, August 31, 2026 Francisco Monaldi, “Without Institutional Change, Venezuela’s Oil Bonanza Remains Unviable,” Americas Quarterly, January 26, 2026 Francisco Monaldi, Igor Hernandez, and Jose La Rosa, “The collapse of the Venezuelan oil industry: The role of above-ground risks limiting foreign investment,” Resources Policy Francisco Monaldi, “The Cyclical Phenomenon of Resource Nationalism in Latin America,” Oxford Encyclopedia of Latin American Politics Romulo Betancourt, Venezuela's oil

James Crabtree joins the podcast to discuss the new CNAS report he co-authored with Emily, Whither the Coalition? Assessing the Prospects of a Diverse Sanctions Coalition in Defense of Taiwan. Geoff, Emily, and James discuss the prospects of India, Singapore, and Germany joining the United States in a possible future Taiwan contingency scenario, including the political and economic constraints each country would weigh in making such a decision. James Crabtree is an Adjunct Senior Fellow in the CNAS Energy, Economics, and Security Program and a London-based geopolitical analyst and author with extensive experience working in Asia. Emily Kilcrease and James Crabtree, Whither the Coalition: Assessing the Prospects of a Diverse Sanctions Coalition in Defense of Taiwan, CNAS, August 18, 2026 Matthew Mingey, Laura Gormley, and Logan Wright, Avoiding entanglement: G20 responses in a Taiwan crisis, The Atlantic Council and The Rhodium Group, November 12, 2024 Howard Shatz et al., Economic Deterrence in a China Contingency, RAND, November 6, 2025 James Crabtree, The Billionaire Raj: A Journey Through India’s New Gilded Age James Crabtree, The Perimeter: America's Struggle for Primacy in the Pacific Sadanand Dhume, The Unpredictable Rise and Uncertain Future of Modern India

Paul Haenle and Terah Lyons of JPMorganChase join Emily and Geoff to talk about their recent report on U.S.-China AI competition and what policymakers miss when they only look at the latest AI model benchmarks. They get into the latest uproar over (yet another) capable Chinese AI model, what U.S. industrial policy for AI should look like, and how capital can be allocated amidst rapid technological change and massive geopolitical uncertainty. Paul Haenle is Managing Director and Head of Asia Pacific (APAC) Policy and Strategic Competitiveness at JPMorganChase, where he leads strategy and external engagement on policy issues critical to the firm’s global competitiveness, including trade and investment, supply chains, technology, and infrastructure.  Terah Lyons is currently a Managing Director and the Global Head of AI and Data Policy at JPMorganChase, where she bridges the Chief Data and Analytics Office and Global Government Relations as a member of both executive teams, drives the company's global strategy, engagement, and positioning on AI, data, and digital policy issues, and support's the Firm's AI governance and responsible AI strategy.  Disclosure: Separate from this podcast, JPMorganChase is a financial supporter of CNAS. As with all of our supporters, we maintain strict intellectual independence and editorial discretion in our research products, including our podcasts. More information on our intellectual independence policy can be found on our website. Christopher Miller, Chip War Dan Wang, Breakneck: China’s Quest to Engineer the Future Geoffrey Gertz and Emily Kilcrease, Who Will Make Money on AI?, CNAS, May 5, 2026 Michael Cembalest, Patchmageddon: The race to patch software vulnerabilities before zero-day cyber-exploitations proliferate , JPMC, July 2026 JPMorganChase, Beyond the Benchmarks: A Systemic View of U.S.-China AI Competition, May 2026

Emily and Geoff talk about the future of the North American trade relationship with Meredith Lilly and Jorge Guajardo. They get into what’s next for USMCA negotiations, why Canada and Mexico would support a Fortress USMCA approach to strengthening economic security alignment across the continent, and the big questions over what exactly the U.S. wants out of the USMCA talks. Plus, what happens if this all ends up in a “zombie USMCA!” Jorge Guajardo is a Partner at DGA Group and Mexico’s former ambassador to China. Meredith Lilly is Professor and Simon Reisman Chair in International Economic Policy at Carleton University and former Foreign Affairs and International Trade Advisor to then-Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper. Neil Shearing, The Fractured Age: How The Return of Geopolitics Will Splinter the Global Economy David A. Gantz and Tony Payan, The Future of Trade: A North American Perspective Emily Kilcrease and Geoffrey Gertz, Economic Security in North America: Recommendations for USMCA Review, December 3, 2025 Jamie Tronnes and Emily Kilcrease, “Trump’s Replacement Tariffs Will Have Unintended Consequences for USMCA,” National Review, June 12, 2026 Emily Kilcrease, “Statement for Office of the U.S. Trade Representative Hearing on Section 301 Investigations into Structural Excess Capacity,” May 5, 2026 Christopher Gundermann, Hugh Grant-Chapman, and Diego Marroquín Bitar, “Understanding President Trump’s New Tariffs on Canadian Imports,” CSIS, July 21, 2026

Josh Kretman, former sanctions official, joins Emily to discuss whether there is a Trump doctrine on sanctions and what that might look like. They take a tour around the world’s sanctions hot spots, unpacking the latest developments on the Venezuela, Iran, and Russia sanctions programs and debating whether the U.S. can effectively wield geoeconomic power when China too often plays the role of a sanctions spoiler.   Show notes:   Daniel Yergin, The Prize: The Epic Quest for Oil, Money, and Power Bill Bowder, Red Notice: A True Story of High Finance, Murder, and One Man's Fight for Justice NPR, “Islamabad Memorandum of Understanding between the Islamic Republic of Iran and the United States of America,” June 18, 2026 Hans Nichols, “Senators introduce revised Russia sanctions bill to honor Graham,” Axios, July 14, 2026 Richard Nephew, Emily Kilcrease, and Geoff Gertz, “Richard Nephew on the U.S. military strikes on Iran’s nuclear program,”  Derisky Business, June 26, 2025 Rachel Ziemba and Emily Kilcrease “The Long Tail of the Hormuz Energy Crisis with Rachel Ziemba,” Derisky Business, June 26, 2025 Eleanor Hume and Kyle Rutter, Sanctions By the Numbers: 2025 Year in Review, CNAS, January 29, 2026 Emily Kilcrease, Hit It With Your Best Shot: An American Doctrine of Economic Pressure, CNAS, April 1, 2026

Josh Kagan joins Emily and Geoff to give the big picture behind recent U.S. tariffs related to forced labor, as well as providing an insider’s view on the future of trade and labor issues. In an area that is often a blind spot for the U.S. national security community, Josh helps explain why labor issues have become central to the U.S. approach on trade. Josh Kagan is Special Counsel at Kelley Drye and previously served as the Assistant United States Trade Representative for Labor Affairs at USTR. USTR, Section 301 Investigation into Forced Labor Washington Post Editorial Board, “Trump tries a new trick to raise tariffs,” June 3, 2026 USTR, “Ambassador Greer Pens Letter to Washington Post Editorial Board in Response to June 3 Editorial” Jamie Tronnes & Emily Kilcrease, “Trump’s Replacement Tariffs Will Have Unintended Consequences for USMCA,”National Review, June 12, 2026 Robert Lighthizer, No Trade Is Free: Changing Course, Taking on China, and Helping America's Workers Michael Beeman, Walking Out: America’s New Trade Policy in the Asia-Pacific and Beyond Sherrod Brown, Myths of Free Trade: Why American Trade Policy Has Failed

Emily and Geoff sit down with Tobias Gehrke to talk about why Europe is facing a looming trade war with China and how prepared (or not) it is to handle trade wars on multiple fronts. They also get Tobias’s take on how things are faring in the Transatlantic relationship, Europe’s pragmatic strategy for dealing with U.S. tariffs, and whether Europe can just wait out the Trump administration. Tobias is a senior policy fellow at the European Council on Foreign Relations where he focuses on European power. He covers geoeconomics, economic security, European economic strategy, and great power competition in the global economy. Shownotes: Tobias Gehrke, “Beijing hold’em: European cards against Chinese coercion,” European Council on Foreign Relations, March 31, 2026 Richard Bravo, Daniel Basterio, and Jenny Leonard, “Left with few choices, EU braces for a trade fight with China,” Bloomberg, June 3, 2026 U.S. Mission to the European Union, “Factsheet: The United States and European Union Reach a Massive Trade Deal,” July 28, 2025 European Commission, “EU-US Trade Deal Explained,” July 28, 2025 European Commission, “Strengthening Europe’s tech sovereignty,” June 3, 2026 Francesca Ghiretti, Geoeconomic Competition Podcast

In a live conversation at CNAS, Emily unpacks a new CNAS report exploring how the private sector can advance economic security cooperation between the U.S. and South Korea. She's joined by Tami Overby, Partner at DGA; James Kim, Director of the Stimson Center's Korea Program; and Eleanor Hume, Research Assistant in the CNAS Energy, Economics, and Security Program and co-author of the report. Show Notes: Geoffrey Gertz and Eleanor Hume, Invested Allies: How the Private Sector Can Boost U.S.-South Korea Economic Security Cooperation

Sara Schuman joins Emily to debrief on the Trump-Xi summit. She explains why it's OK to have a summit that is light on deliverables, describes how China is viewing its relative strength in the relationship, and outlines what she's looking for in the year ahead. Sara recently joined CNAS as an adjunct senior fellow, after a long career working on China trade issues for the U.S. government. She is also managing director at Beacon Global Strategies, where she leads the firm's international trade practice. "US Trade Representative Jamieson Greer Talks China Trade," Bloomberg Talks Camille Boullenois, Malcolm Black, and Alessia Caruso, China’s Next-Generation Industrial Policy, U.S. Chamber of Commerce and Rhodium Group Laura Silver and Laura Clancy, "Americans’ views of China have grown somewhat more positive in recent years," Pew Research Center Graham Allison, Destined for War: Can America and China Escape Thucydides's Trap? The White House, "Fact Sheet: President Donald J. Trump Secures Historic Deals with China, Delivering for American Workers, Farmers, and Industry" Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the People's Republic of China, "President Xi Jinping Holds Talks with U.S. President Donald J. Trump"

Earlier this week, Emily hosted Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Investment Security Chris Pilkerton for a live discussion at CNAS. Investment security has emerged as a central pillar of U.S. national security and foreign policy, with expanding sets of U.S. and partner government policies addressing the national security implications of certain investment flows. The discussion will explore the administration’s perspectives on investment security and its ongoing efforts to both strengthen and streamline investment security programs, as well as how investment security fits into broader U.S. work to manage intensifying geopolitical competition.  You can watch the full event here.

Emily is joined by Rachel Ziemba, CNAS adjunct senior fellow and energy markets expert, to unpack the ongoing energy crisis resulting from the U.S.-Iran military conflict and the closure of the Strait of Hormuz. They delve into why stabilizing oil prices will be easier said than done and what the current crisis has demonstrated about the effectiveness of U.S. economic pressure. Emily Kilcrease, Hit It With Your Best Shot: An American Doctrine of Economic Pressure  This episode was recorded on Tuesday, April 7, before a 2-week ceasefire was announced between the United States, Israel, and Iran.

A year ago, the Trump administration unveiled an ambitious plan to reset the global trading system on a day President Donald Trump dubbed “Liberation Day,” overturning decades of precedent and ushering in a new era of a far more assertive U.S. trade policy. While the long-term effects of the administration’s trade strategy remain uncertain, one year of the new trade approach has fundamentally shifted how America talks about the legal, economic, and political dynamics of trade. ​​​​​​​This live episode was hosted by CNAS experts Emily Kilcrease and Geoffrey Gertz and features Kathleen Claussen, professor of law at Georgetown Law; Laura Silver, associate director at the Pew Research Center; and Chris Kennedy, adjunct senior fellow at CNAS. The discussion assessed the legal ramifications of the administration’s trade approach, highlighted new polling data from Pew Research on American views on U.S. trade policy, and examined why the economic impacts of the tariffs have not been as severe as initially projected. Watch the event and find the fun graphs from Pew Research here. USTR, Liberation Day One Year Later: Protecting American Jobs and Delivering Greater Market Access for American Farmers, Ranchers, and Manufacturers CNAS Insights, A Year After Liberation Day, Can Trump’s Trade Wars Be Salvaged? Pew Research, How Americans View Trump’s Handling of Trade and Tariffs

María Pagán joins Emily and Geoff for a wide-ranging discussion on the past, present, and future of U.S. trade law and policy. They assess what’s working (and what’s not) at the WTO, the path forward for the Trump administration’s tariff strategy, and what to expect at this week’s WTO ministerial conference. María Pagán was most recently Deputy U.S. Trade Representative and Chief of Mission for the Permanent Mission of the United States to the WTO. Prior to that, she was Deputy General Counsel at USTR, responsible for supervising and providing legal advice to senior USTR officials on all legal aspects regarding trade negotiations, implementation of trade agreements, and trade related legislation and regulations. Prior to joining USTR in 2003, she worked as an attorney advisor at the Office of the Chief Counsel for International Commerce at the U.S. Department of Commerce (1993 – 2003). Show notes Ambassador Jamieson Greer, “Don’t Let International Law Get In the Way of Peace and Prosperity”, Speech at the University of Virginia School of Law, February 24, 2026 USTR, Further Perspectives On WTO Reform Communication From The United States ,  March 23, 2026 Dmitry Grozoubinski, Why Politicians Lie About Trade – and What You Need to Know About It Scott Miller and Bill Reinsch, "The Trade Guys" podcast Ardian Mollabeqiri and Robert Skidmore, “Trade Splaining” podcast