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In this episode of Associations NOW Presents, recorded live at ASAE’s Annual Meeting & Exposition in Indianapolis, host Molly Ferns of the American Association of Immunologists welcomes Melissa Cherry and Colleen Phalen of Miles Partnership to explore how destinations can elevate the annual meeting experience. They discuss why associations should move beyond transactional relationships with DMOs and CVBs and embrace more strategic partnerships that enhance attendee engagement, create authentic local experiences, and support attendance goals. The conversation also explores rising meeting costs, the growing appeal of second- and third-tier cities, and how AI is changing destination research while making strong human partnerships more important than ever. Check out the video podcast here: https://youtu.be/kf_FVuOcm8g This episode is sponsored by Miles Partnership.  Associations NOW Presents is produced by Association Briefings.   Transcript Molly Ferns: [00:00:00] Welcome to this episode of Associations NOW Presents: Industry Partner Series, an original podcast series from the American Society of Association Executives. I'm Molly Ferns, the director of marketing with the American Association of Immunologists, and we're recording here in Indianapolis for ASAE's Annual Meeting and Exposition. This episode is sponsored by Miles Partnership, and I'm really excited for this conversation and our guests today, so I'll pass it over to them to introduce themselves.  Melissa Cherry: Thanks, Molly. I'm Melissa Cherry. I'm the senior vice president at Miles Partnership, and I lead our brand advocacy practice.  Colleen Phalen: Hi, I'm Colleen Phelan, vice president of meetings and events strategy. Very excited for today.  Molly Ferns: Awesome. Brilliant. Yeah, I'm very excited for this conversation. I think as a director of marketing on a very small team that works very closely with our meetings team, who is also very small, we definitely are looking at how to amplify the location, the destination of our annual meeting. So I figured we'd start with an icebreaker, if that sounds [00:01:00] good. Yeah. Sounds good. Great. What's a destination that you completely changed your mind about?  Colleen Phalen: So I would have to say, actually, I just went to this destination. We work with them. It's Rogers, Arkansas.  Molly Ferns: Oh, okay.  Colleen Phalen: And I'd actually never been to Arkansas entirely, and then Rogers specifically. And Rogers just has a really cool story. Yes. It's set in a rural setting, but it's where Walmart is headquartered- Mm ... and JB Hunt, and all of these Fortune 500 companies have made it their home and invested in there. Okay. They have Crystal Bridges. They have a convention center.  As we're going in meetings and trying to find new destinations, to me, it just really spoke to that sense of discovery and something different and something you can't find anywhere else, but they still have all these great amenities for your attendees with restaurants and the walkability. We travel all the time, and we live in airports, but I took five pictures in their airport because there was all these cool engagements. They had a Crystal Bridges museum [00:02:00] in the airport. Wow. A really cool robotic barista coffee station. Robotic.  Molly Ferns: Robotic.  Colleen Phalen: Is that not a word?  Molly Ferns: I don't know.  Colleen Phalen: Okay. But it's really cool about these destinations that people are looking to discover. Everyone wants something new and something exciting and so I just, hats off to Rogers. That's awesome. Yeah. Very cool.  Molly Ferns: And how about you, Melissa?  Colleen Phalen: So this is a while ago. I would have to say Paducah, Kentucky.  Molly Ferns: Okay. Have you been? I have not been to- Okay. ... either Rogers, Arkansas or Paducah, Kentucky. Now I will definitely add it to my list. Yeah. Yeah.  Melissa Cherry: This was a minute ago, but I was there for actually a conference. It was UNESCO was having an event. They're a world heritage s- city, actually. And the reason is that the National Quilt Museum, which is a Smithsonian affiliate, is actually in Paducah. Oh. And so it's really cool. It actually is the center of the universe for quilt making in the United States, and has one of the largest fabric stores that gets orders from all over the world. Oh, wow. So totally random. Would never have think it. Not really a place I would say I would pick.  Molly Ferns: Yeah.  Melissa Cherry: But it was pretty cool. And while I was [00:03:00] there, there was one Uber driver, and everyone was very concerned- Yeah ... that I was using the Uber driver, but he took me around all day.  Molly Ferns: Oh, that's nice. Melissa Cherry: He took me to the quilt store. He took me to the shop to go get some bourbon. He took me back to the hotel.  Molly Ferns: That's lovely. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah, very cool. I'm gonna participate in the next one- Yeah ... if that's okay. Sure. And I actually had a city that's a, a large city as a destination, but Chicago, Illinois is one for me. I, so beginning my career in marketing, I was traveling a lot for association annual meetings, going and exhibiting there, and the first several times went to Chicago, felt like it was a very... I was living in New York at the time. Felt like it was a very corporate, kind of dry city, 'cause what I was experiencing was the Magnificent Mile and- Yeah ... the convention center. And it wasn't until I think probably the fourth time I was there for business that I really conscientiously made the choice, with the support of kind of some recommendations from the association that was hosting that annual meeting, to bridge out to other [00:04:00] neighborhoods of Chicago, and it really just changed my entire outlook on that city. And I love it now. I love traveling there. It's one of my favorites. So yeah.  Colleen Phalen: So you know I'm from Chicago.  Melissa Cherry: Yeah. I feel like this is a setup. And, and neighborhoods, neighborhoods was my biggest thing when I was the chief marketing officer for the,Bureau. Yeah. I'm gonna leave.  Molly Ferns: I went to, uh, Kuma's Corner in Lincoln Park over there. I've heard of Kuma's Corner, yeah. Yeah. And that was like, blew my mind. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So awesome. All right. And the, the next icebreaker I have is the last meeting that you had decided to extend your stay for, where was that and what made you extend your stay?  Melissa Cherry: I'm gonna make this quick. Mine was Puerto Rico, and I'd been there many times, but this one time was a deliberate like just relax, 'cause we travel and we're like in and out. We get there, you gotta do whatever you gotta do, you gotta get back out. And so this time I was like, "Nope, not gonna do that. I'm gonna stay an extra day, going to sit at the pool." "I'm gonna go to Old San Juan and shop."  Molly Ferns: Nice. Melissa Cherry: And then I'm gonna have a really and amazing dinner," and that's exactly what I did.  Molly Ferns: That's lovely. That's really nice. Awesome. All right. I think if we're ready to start the podcast. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. We'll dive into some of these questions here. So before we really start [00:05:00] to kinda dig deep into everything, when we say destination partner, who is that actually in your mind? Melissa Cherry: Yeah. So, our world is really about the destination organizations, also known as convention and visitors bureau, also known as a destination marketing organization, also known as acronyms. But-  Molly Ferns: Yeah ...  Melissa Cherry: We're typically talking about a DMO and a CVB.  Molly Ferns: Okay. And that's who an association really works for- Yes ... when they are going to a CVB. Yeah,  Melissa Cherry: Definitely.  Molly Ferns: Great. Awesome. All right. As we're on the topic of destinations, how much does the destination itself contribute to the overall member and attendee experience of an annual meeting? I think this is one that I'm always grappling with in marketing.  Colleen Phalen: Yeah. Yeah. It's difficult, but it is this balance. And as you mentioned, I think most associations, smaller staff, so supporting across meetings and marketing, and where is that balance? In my experience, just for history, I've been a marketing and meetings person in the association world for 30 years. 30 long years. But it's finding that balance. And first you have to have the proof point of the meeting itself. You can't go to your boss and [00:06:00] say, "Look at this picture of Hawaii. I wanna go." Even though we love Hawaii.  Molly Ferns: Yes. Which we were in Hawaii two years ago. Yeah. Yeah. That is one that will always stand out as the meeting that people loved.  Colleen Phalen: And then it's exactly that, is that the destination then comes in. I think honestly, if you're deciding between two, the destination can be the tipping point-  Molly Ferns: Yeah Colleen Phalen: if everything else is pretty equal. Mm-hmm. And then as you said, then you also have this loyalty to the association post-meeting, 'cause you're like, "Oh, I remember that event in Hawaii, and I made 10 new friends, like real friends that I'm, I'm connected with and that are now my professional resource." I think the business is always first, but the destination is what's the game changer. Molly Ferns: Yeah. I fully agree with that. I think as we're, like, looking down the line, this year we're in LA, and I think it's one of those things that it's a return to the West Coast. We were in Hawaii two years ago, but how do we amplify LA in a way that was on a level that people had that brand loyalty to Hawaii, to attending the annual meeting in Hawaii? And that's something I think I'm conscientious about in the marketing, the [00:07:00] communications, the value proposition, all of that around the annual meeting. So for associations trying to create

In this episode of Associations NOW Presents: Industry Partner Edition, recorded live at ASAE’s Annual Meeting & Exposition in Indianapolis, host Sharon Pare of High Road Solutions welcomes Kristen Reynolds, president and CEO of Choose Chicago, for a conversation about the changing meetings and tourism landscape and what makes Chicago a compelling destination for associations. Reynolds shares her path to Chicago and discusses the city’s tourism momentum, from record-breaking convention attendance to major developments including the Obama Presidential Center, a revitalized Magnificent Mile, a new O’Hare terminal and new sports and entertainment projects. She also highlights Chicago’s accessibility, hospitality community and McCormick Place, as well as how Choose Chicago works with associations to create memorable experiences that extend beyond the convention center. The conversation explores the role of authentic storytelling in destination marketing, including the “Never Done, Never Outdone” campaign and the resident-driven “All for the Love of Chicago” initiative, which gives Chicagoans a platform to share their own stories about the city. Check out the video podcast here: https://youtu.be/Qo5DGBRhMuo This episode is sponsored by Choose Chicago.  Associations NOW Presents is produced by Association Briefings.   Transcript Sharon Pare: [00:00:00] Welcome to this episode of Associations NOW Presents: Industry Partners Series, an original podcast series from the American Society of Association Executives. I'm Sharon Pare, Partnerships Director at High Road Solutions, a HubSpot agency. We're recording live here from Indianapolis today for ASAE's Annual Meeting and Exposition, the Super Bowl of all association meetings. Today's episode is sponsored by Choose Chicago, and today we are excited to welcome Ms. Kristin Reynolds. She's the CEO and president of Choose Chicago, so I want to welcome you in.  Kristen Reynolds: Thank you so much. It's exciting to be here. This is my first ASAE Annual Convention, and it's awesome.  Sharon Pare: So now that it's your first time being here, how do you feel? What's the energy like? What are you hearing on the floor?  Kristen Reynolds: Well, we're very excited, and we're mostly excited because Chicago is actually hosting in 2028. Yep. So we're here soaking up all the information, what's working, what people [00:01:00] love, what we can bring more of, how we can wow them when they come to Chicago. But really, there's a lot of excitement. There's a lot of energy on the show floor, but it's a state of transition. Right. There's a lot of change in our industry and in the world, and, and that can be difficult sometimes, but it's exciting.  Sharon Pare: It's exciting, and talking about some of that change, is there something on the floor that maybe gives you a little bit of concern? Is there anything you're worried about?  Kristen Reynolds: Well, I think everything gives... When you're a CEO, everything gives you concern. I live in a constant state of fear, and I think that's how you stay sharp, actually. But yes, there's a lot of things, technology, how it's advancing. You don't know how that's gonna change. Right. Newer generations coming into the workforce, especially in association memberships with are they getting what we used to get from being part of associations? Are they feeling that community? And how do we continue to bring in younger generations? There- there's a lot of those conversations going on right now, but really [00:02:00] mostly positive. This is a resilient business. Nonprofits are resilient organizations. Yes, they are. And I feel good about it at Choose Chicago because I always say, "The best people to navigate times of disruption are disruptors."  Sharon Pare: That's  Kristen Reynolds: right. And that's what we're all about.  Sharon Pare: One thing I wanted to do before we really dig into everything is I know you've built your career in different states all around the United States. I know you started in Arizona maybe. That's right. That's right. And then at one point you were in-  Kristen Reynolds: New York ...  Sharon Pare: Long Island.  Kristen Reynolds: Yes.  Sharon Pare: And w- I don't know if you say Long Island or- Long Island ... how do you say it? Long  Kristen Reynolds: Island.  Sharon Pare: And then-  Kristen Reynolds: And now  Sharon Pare: Chicago. You chose Chicago. So tell us a little bit about Chi-Town ... Why did you choose Chicago?  Kristen Reynolds: Why did I choose Chicago? I grew up pretty much in Arizona. I went to Arizona State. Both my daughters are Sun Devils, and so my family lives there. Going to New York was a big jump, but from my position, New York was like the pinnacle of tourism. Long Island's an incredible place to raise a family, but with still access to New York City. I was there for [00:03:00] 10 years, and then I became an empty nester. And I was, I think I'm too young to be on my front porch in a rocking chair on Long Island. I had another gig in me, and my husband is from Chicago. Mm-hmm. So here's a little tidbit. I say this all the time. I used to say he's from Chicago, born and raised. He went to Loyola Chicago, and my stepdaughter's there. But now that I live in Chicago, I say, "My husband's from the suburbs of Chicago," because that means a very different thing to Chicagoans than being from Chicago. So when the job came up, it just happened to be the perfect timing, and I really only wanna work for and represent a city that I feel a connection to and that I believe in, and Chicago is the best big city in the US for nine straight years. So I feel pretty lucky.  Sharon Pare: That's a pretty lucky job that you have there. And before we talk about this later, I wanna mention that you're behind the mic today as a guest. Yes. But you've hosted two of your podcasts now. Yes. One when you were with Long Island, [00:04:00] which ... What was the name of it again?  Yes.  Kristen Reynolds: We started it during the pandemic when we couldn't market, and we wanted to, to story tell, and it was really the beginning of podcasts. It was called Long Island Tea. Oh,  Sharon Pare: I love that.  Kristen Reynolds: Where we spill the tea on living your best Long Island life. Okay. And it was a play on, obviously, Long Island Iced Tea, and it was great. I'll tell you, the first several f- few years it was sponsored by Long Island Wine Country, so we were contractually obligated to drink wine during the podcast. And so-  Sharon Pare: It does not sound like a bad deal at all Kristen Reynolds: ... it was really fun. Then we had to realize, we had to kind of rein that in a little bit. That's okay.  Sharon Pare: Hone it in sometimes.  Kristen Reynolds: And then also I started another podcast there called The C-Suite Tea.  Sharon Pare: Oh, okay.  Kristen Reynolds: Which is still going on, which is fantastic. My COO, who's now the CEO, continues to take that over, and that's where we just would give C-suite advice because people really wanted to know more about it. And then when I came to Chicago, it was like, "Are you gonna start a podcast?" And I wasn't really planning on it, and then we launched this new campaign, and one thing led to another, and we now have a podcast in Chicago.  Sharon Pare: So let's talk about Chicago. You [00:05:00] just said that Chicago's been named the best city for the last nine years. Yes. You had a record year for tourism in 2025. So when you look at those numbers, what are they telling you now about the momentum that you're seeing in the city right now?  Kristen Reynolds: Yeah. That's the perfect word, and I'm, I get chills, honestly. You really do. But there is- I, I just got chills- ... goosebumps ... talking about it because I just feel so lucky to be in Chicago in this moment, and that's what we keep saying right now is Chicago is having a moment. We did just recently open this small attraction, you might have heard of it, called the Obama Presidential Center. No big  Sharon Pare: deal.  Kristen Reynolds: But there's so much more than that. There m- the Magnificent Mile, which is the Michigan Avenue, is ... There's so much resurgence. They just opened the Hello Kitty Cafe. Oh. And the first Cube in the US, and the Candy Hall of Fame is coming. There's so much development happening there. The Chicago Fire is building a new stadium, and the 1901 Project, which is the United Center, is having a complete renovation. There is so much momentum in Chicago, and from a meetings [00:06:00] and convention standpoint, we're seeing it as well, that the attendees this year, almost every single one of our meetings and conventions have broken records in attendance. Sharon Pare: That's amazing.  Kristen Reynolds: And that's because there's so much for people to do and see when they're in the city. So it all builds on each other, and it all connects in the success of what we're seeing in our numbers. But we've had a record-breaking summer. Our summer this year continues to just soar above our comp set, which we're very lucky. Even without ... We are one of the non-host cities for the World Cup, and we are one of the only destinations in the US that actually saw an increase in June, almost double digits. It's really saying something about what the city has to offer.  Sharon Pare: So you've shown up on all these lists. I know you've talked about some of the new developments that are coming up in Chicago right now. But what is it right now that are bringing these associations back? Now I ... Obviously- Mm ... those record number breaking attendee numbers are coming in. But what's something different today that maybe wasn't there five or 10 years ago about the city?  Kristen Reynolds: I do think it's [00:07:00] a lot of the surrounding development that I just mentioned. But ultimately, the reason why we're a successful

In this episode of Associations NOW Presents: Industry Partner Edition, recorded live at ASAE’s Annual Meeting & Exposition in Indianapolis, guest host Joanna Pineda of the Associations Thrive podcast welcomes Dr. Shawna Pandya, Canada’s first named commercial female astronaut, who is preparing to fly with Virgin Galactic. Dr. Pandya explores how commercial human spaceflight is creating new pathways to space and shares how her background as a physician informs her work in space medicine, focused on keeping people healthy and performing at their best in extreme environments. She also discusses her experiences as an aquanaut on NEPTUNE saturation missions in the Florida Keys and how underwater environments can help researchers study crew dynamics and test technologies for space. Dr. Pandya highlights research priorities ranging from neuroscience and women’s health to health technology and physical sciences, reflects on the role of leadership and resilience throughout her career, and looks ahead to the next generation of commercial spaceflight. Check out the video podcast here: https://youtu.be/32Zx7varMag This episode is sponsored by Destination Canada.  Associations NOW Presents is produced by Association Briefings.   Transcript Joanna Pineda: [00:00:00] Welcome to this episode of Associations NOW Presents: Industry Partner Series, an original podcast series from the American Society of Association Executives. I'm Joanna Pineda, CEO and chief troublemaker at Matrix Group International, and we're recording here in Indianapolis during ASAE's Annual Meeting & Exposition. This episode is sponsored by Destination Canada. And today, we are so excited to welcome Dr. Shawna Pandya, Canada's first named commercial female astronaut. Dr. Pandya, welcome to the show.  Dr. Shawna Pandya: Thank you so much for having me here. It's just wonderful to be here.  Joanna Pineda: Dr. Pandya, what does it mean to be a, I wanna make sure I get this right, a named commercial female astronaut? Dr. Shawna Pandya: Yeah, that's a great question. So once upon a time, the only path to get to space was to be an agency astronaut, so being a Canadian Space [00:01:00] Agency astronaut, being a NASA astronaut. And now I often like to say that this is the best possible time to be alive in human space flight because there are multiple paths to space. So you can be a commercial astronaut. You can be an agency astronaut. You can be an agency astronaut who retires and works with a commercial company as one of their astronauts. So when we talk about commercial astronauts, we mean an astronaut who's going to space with a company like SpaceX–in my case Virgin Galactic–Blue Origin, Axiom, Vast. And so the path of how to get to space and who gets to go to space is changing. So in Canada, we've had a number of commercial astronauts, including William Shatner, probably the most famous one. Makes sense. But there've been no females so far. So for women astronauts, we've had Dr.Roberta Bondar and Julie Payette, who have flown with the Canadian Space Agency, Jenni Sidey-Gibbons, who will soon fly with the Canadian Space Agency, and on the commercial side, I have the honor and privilege of being the first named commercial female astronaut.  Joanna Pineda: That is just amazing. [00:02:00] Congratulations. Dr. Shawna Pandya: Thank you. It still feels like I'm processing the information.  Joanna Pineda: Yeah. I'm curious, when you were a little girl, what did you want to be?  Dr. Shawna Pandya: I definitely wanted to be an astronaut, and so I think this is where the story of where representation matters. It does. I was a kid growing up in the '90s, and I got to watch Canada's first female astronaut go to space. I heard of Dr. Roberta Bondar and her space flight, and I thought, "Canadian women can do that. I want to do that. I'm a Canadian woman, so if I want to do that, I should just follow Dr. Bondar's path." And so she's a neuroscientist, a physician, and an astronaut, so I thought, "Okay, that's what I'll do. There's no question about it. I'll go study neuroscience, medicine, and then go be an astronaut."  Joanna Pineda: Oh, so you were trying to follow her path.  Dr. Shawna Pandya: From the very start, like when I was 15, I knew that I was going go do a neuroscience degree. There was no- nothing else I was gonna apply to, and so that became the blueprint for me, and then I took a few detours along the way. I did my master's degree in space studies at the International Space [00:03:00] University, and that's where I learned that space medicine is this whole field dedicated to keeping astronauts alive and healthy in space, and this was prior to my getting into medical school. And so this really shaped my path and trajectory coming to medical school. And so these days I like to say every part of my life is either space medicine or space medicine.  Joanna Pineda: Okay, so help me out a little bit. So I think about astronauts as being former military, former Air Force, but you're taking the physician astronaut route. Yeah. Talk to me about this.  Dr. Shawna Pandya: Yeah, and that's a really good question. And so when we look at the history of where human space flight came from, it wasn't a journey of science and exploration. It was a political showdown between the Soviet Union and the Americans. And so of course they were going to have military pilots, and in those days, females were barred from applying to that position. So of course it was gonna be military test pilots who were male. And then as we moved out of the Cold War era into one [00:04:00] of cooperation, and even the USSR and the USA at that time did collaborate in space. There's a very famous Apollo-Soyuz test project in the 1970s wherein the commanders of the Apollo and the Soyuz docked together and shook hands across space and time. Joanna Pineda: Amazing.  Dr. Shawna Pandya: That was widely viewed as a very diplomatic beginning of a detente and a thawing of relations in the Cold War. And so then that's what ushered in the next era of space exploration, and we saw the Skylab and the Mir and the shuttle eras, and now it's the International Space Station era. So this is one of science, discovery, collaboration, cooperation, and today the ISS is supported by five key partners, the USA- Right Europe, Canada, Japan, and Russia. And now, in addition to being in the ISS era, we're also ushering ourselves forward into simultaneous multiple new eras. So that includes commercial space stations in low Earth orbit. That is [00:05:00] happening. Commercial human space flight, so astronauts like myself. And then also exploration of class missions, and we saw the first of that with the Artemis II mission earlier this year. So there's a whole lot happening, and so this is what I mean when I say it's the best possible time to be alive in human space flight.  Joanna Pineda: So it sounds like commercial space flight combined with government-sponsored space flight has really opened up just vast new possibilities.  Dr. Shawna Pandya: Absolutely. There's a whole new world out there, and it's not that we're living in separate silos where it's just agency or just commercial space. We see a very close partnership between commercial and agency space flights. So for example, SpaceX is the provider for NASA, for the Canadian Space Agency to the International Space Station. We see companies like Axiom, like Fast, partner with NASA to take private astronauts to the International Space Station. So it really is this whole new pathway towards space.  Joanna Pineda: So Dr. Pandya- You're an [00:06:00] aquanaut and an astronaut.  Dr. Shawna Pandya: Yes.  Joanna Pineda: So talk to me about why you're an aquanaut, and what is that, and what's the training to be both an aquanaut and an astronaut?  Dr. Shawna Pandya: Happily. And yes, I get this question a lot. What is an aquanaut? Why are you an aquanaut? How does that inform your space work? And so I think the easiest way to paint this picture is when I was on my first aquanaut mission, my commander, he had this amazing shirt, and the caption was, "Same, but different." That was the caption, "Same, but different." And the image was this aquanaut underwater doing work at the bottom of the sea, and their umbilical with their life support and their air is snaked up. And then it turned into the umbilical and air supply of an astronaut up in space. Ah. And so the same but different pertains to this idea of working in what we call an ICE environment, so an isolated, confined, extreme environment. And so the definition of an aquanaut is someone who lives at saturation, so [00:07:00] an increased pressure, which you will be at if you're underwater. And once you're in that environment for more than 24 hours, all the gas bubbles that are gonna dissolve into your body will have dissolved, so now you have unlimited bottom time. So you just live and work there for as long as you need until it's time to surface, and then you'll surface at a set rate. So that's the definition of an aquanaut. And actually, the space agencies themselves pioneered this tradition of sending their astronauts to live and work underwater. And the idea was that they would build their crew dynamics, have their crews get used to working in this closed, confined space. They would do science that would inform human space flight. They would test technologies that might be used in space. And so that was the beginning of it. And so I was lucky enough to do a civilian aquanaut mission in the Florida Keys. I've done it twice now. I've lived and worked and done science underwater for a total of 11 nights [00:08:00] and 10 days with an amazing crew. So two Canadians, three Americans, and these were the NEPTUNE missions. So everything in space, exploration and medicine is an acronym. Our mission is another acronym, NEPTUNE, which stands for Nautical Experiments

Recorded live at ASAE's Marketing, Membership, Communications + Tech Conference, guest host Nikki Golden, CAE, of Association Laboratory, welcomes Preeti Vasishtha, AAiP, editor-in-chief and director of content at the American Academy of Actuaries, for a conversation on the evolving role of association communications and marketing. Together, they explore how the two disciplines work hand in hand to build trust, engage members, and advance organizational goals. They also discuss the growing influence of AI, the importance of strategic storytelling, and why communications professionals must continue developing the skills needed to lead in an increasingly complex and technology-driven environment. Check out the video podcast here: https://youtu.be/7UaKw4Ycgqo Associations NOW Presents is produced by Association Briefings.   Transcript Nikki Golden, CAE: [00:00:00] Welcome to this month's episode of Association NOW Presents, an original podcast series from the American Society of Association Executives. I'm Nikki Golden, CAE, managing director and strategist at Association Laboratory. I'm also incoming vice chair of the Communications Professionals Council of ASAE. We're recording today from ASAE's MM&C Conference in Washington, DC, where association professionals from across the country and industry are gathering to share ideas, build connections, and explore what's next for the community. Today, I'm talking to Preeti, who is one of my fellow council members, and so we're excited to be here with you. Preeti, do you wanna introduce yourself?  Preeti Vasishtha, AAiP: Yeah, sure, Nikki, I'm so excited to be chatting with you. I am Preeti Vasishtha, and I am the editor-in-chief at the American Academy of Actuaries, and I'm also the director of content. I've had various roles in [00:01:00] communications throughout my career at associations in Washington, DC, so I'm really excited to be here. Nikki Golden, CAE: Great, and since we are at MM&CC+Tech, I'm wondering, what do you think is so valuable about this conference for the communications community?  Preeti Vasishtha, AAiP: Yeah. First off, this is my first MM&C+Tech. Oh, great. Yeah. I've been to ASAE's, but this time I was like, "I have to go to MM&C+Tech." So I think one of the things that when I was doing the research for my... I was planning my schedule, looking at all the sessions, and one thing that struck me, I was like, "Wow, I can go to this. I can go for this. This really speaks to me. This session really speaks to me." And when I was doing that, I realized this conference, this event is really built around our jobs of marketing and communications, right? Nikki Golden, CAE: And membership.  Preeti Vasishtha, AAiP: Yeah, and I'll get to that.  Nikki Golden, CAE: Yeah. You're right, and tech. Like, the three, like, let's- Yeah ... like the pillars of a, a stool.  Preeti Vasishtha, AAiP: Yeah. And when I was looking at the sessions, I wasn't even looking whether [00:02:00] it's marketing, whether it's tech, whether it's branding. I was just going, "Yeah, I can go to all of these." Yeah. So I think that's the power of this conference. I also feel the name represents all the four tools of an organization, right? We are the main characters here.  Nikki Golden, CAE: Yeah.  Preeti Vasishtha, AAiP: Right? This is about us.  Nikki Golden, CAE: Yeah.  Preeti Vasishtha, AAiP: So I wasn't struggling to find meaningful, sort of, sessions. Say, "Ah, I don't know which ssession I should go to at this spot." So I think that was really great, and I know, Nikki, you've talked about this previously, but really, you can look at it as three or four distinct areas. Yeah. But none of us really is sticking to our lane. It's also interconnected.  Nikki Golden, CAE: Yeah, very much so.  Preeti Vasishtha, AAiP: I think MMC and tech gets that complexity of our lives, and it just showcases the reality of what we are doing in our daily lives. Nikki Golden, CAE: And it creates that commonality among these four different groups that really need to work [00:03:00] together in order to have- Agreed ... a solid engagement from your members. So I agree with that. Exactly.  Preeti Vasishtha, AAiP: So coming to our favorite question, we've talked about this a lot.  Nikki Golden, CAE: Yeah.  Preeti Vasishtha, AAiP: And we can go on talking about this a lot. We talk of marketing and communications, so how would you, Nikki, what do you see as the differences between the two?  Nikki Golden, CAE: I really think of marketing as really driving that brand awareness. There's a lot of product sales that are involved in it. And communications, I think, really manages that narrative and that storytelling relationship across all the stakeholders. You really can't have one without the other. I think we often talk about them as if they're in competition, but really they should be working hand-in-hand, right? Because you can't really sell a product or have a brand without having that storytelling aspect in the background. And I think oftentimes we are pitted against each other, and what I really like about, I [00:04:00] think, this conference and I think the way that the councils work together, is that we really see how much the two need each other, and where one kind of lane stops and the other one starts. I think people are tending to understand that a little bit better nowadays than they used to. But if I'm thinking about the way that we're going to be, how you think about which is which, conversions, sales, market share, that's a marketing ownership area. But building that, shaping public opinion, including your members' opinion, your stakeholders' opinion, really managing information that people need to know is really where communications sits. Preeti Vasishtha, AAiP: Yeah, I so agree with you. So marketing really, it's so easy to quantify. It's here, right? Yeah. What are the metrics? But when it comes to communications, ah, it's a longer story. It's about the trust, it's about the storytelling. That's so hard to quantify.  Nikki Golden, CAE: Yeah. And, but you're right. But it's the backbone of that marketing, a conversion- Yeah oftentimes.  Preeti Vasishtha, AAiP: And without [00:05:00] marketing, communications can only do so much. So you're right, they go hand-in-hand. Yeah. Absolutely, yeah.  Nikki Golden, CAE: So I think along those same lines, like when you're talking to people who are outside of the marketing and comms, I think, what do they often get wrong about that work? And then along with that, how does that misunderstanding really affect the way that the organization can move forward? Preeti Vasishtha, AAiP: Such a great question, and again, I'm sure we can have a discussion. But I feel, you know, the most persistent misconception that I've felt is marketing i- is our work is about execution.  Nikki Golden, CAE: Yeah.  Preeti Vasishtha, AAiP: And that strategy is somewhere else. Yeah. It's like we are known as the newsletter people, the co- or they'll write something up, or they'll do social media. Nikki Golden, CAE: Or they're just putting  Preeti Vasishtha, AAiP: Yeah ... Ah, they're just putting out... Eh, it's easy. They'll just get it done. And we really are just doing sort of the hands-on role. I think our job, our role is so important to how an organization is [00:06:00] perceived both internally and externally, and that perception has a lot of consequences, right? Yeah. Whether your members are renewing, whether policymakers think of you as a credible source, whether the journalists will pick up your phone when you make a call, or even your non-members or the members you, people you want to acquire as members, they even really even know about you. So all of this sort of feeds into what we do. And your other question really was about what, what impact does it have on the organization? So the downstream effect of this is that marketing communications, we are brought in too late.  Nikki Golden, CAE: Oh my God. We could have a whole session about that.  Preeti Vasishtha, AAiP: Told you. So it's like-  Nikki Golden, CAE: Yeah, 'cause you don't need to know until it's time for us to message. Why would you need to know at the front end of this project?  Preeti Vasishtha, AAiP: Yeah.  Nikki Golden, CAE: Why would we want your insight into the stories that we've been telling, what the brand voice is, or any of even pricing for the marketing side?  Preeti Vasishtha, AAiP: Yeah. [00:07:00] You're right. And it's just a general example. The organization is working on a major initiative, major project, and okay, all the details are done, and someone at the end will say, "Okay, let's think about how we are gonna communicate this," right? And that's when we're brought in, when sometimes it's too late. But I think if we have a place on the table right from the get-go, the organizations make better decisions and wiser decisions. Why? Because we are thinking of the audience right from the get-go, right? Nikki Golden, CAE: Yeah, 100%. I think when we do projects with our clients, the projects that are implemented well are when marketing and communications has a seat at the table for the entirety of the project, because they're not just handed a slide deck and saying, "Communicate this to the members." Yeah. They're able to think strategically about it. They are understanding the why and how decisions were being made all along the way, and so they're constantly [00:08:00] thinking about what is the story that we need to tell to get people to understand why we're making the decisions we're making. It's very hard to do that when you've just been brought in at the end of the topic and somebody gives you a highlight of what has been, like, 12 months of planning. And you don't have all the information, and so something gets lost.  Preeti Vasishtha, AAiP: Yeah ... what's the message? Who is the audience? When are we tr

In this episode of Associations NOW Presents: Industry Partner Edition, recorded live at ASAE's Marketing, Membership, Communications + Tech Conference, guest host Sharon Pare of HighRoad Solutions welcomes Erica Salm Rench, chief marketing officer at Sidecar, for a conversation about helping associations navigate the rapidly evolving world of artificial intelligence. Erica shares why AI presents a unique opportunity for associations to compete more effectively, discusses the importance of educating staff and aligning AI initiatives with organizational strategy, and offers practical guidance on building AI literacy, selecting the right tools, and adapting to the growing influence of AI-powered search. Check out the video podcast here: https://youtu.be/3tyPPP_4yXU   Associations NOW Presents is produced by Association Briefings.   Transcript Sharon Pare: [00:00:00] Welcome to this episode of Associations NOW Presents: Industry Partners Series, an original podcast series from the American Society of Association Executives. I'm Sharon Pare, partnerships director at High Road Solutions, a HubSpot agency, co-host of Rethink podcast, and your host of this series throughout the year. This episode today is sponsored by Sidecar.  We're recording today from ASAE's MMCT conference in Washington, DC, where association professionals from across the industry are gathering to share ideas, build connections, and explore what's next for the community. I've got the perfect expert with me today, Erica Salm Rench. She's really leading the association industry in all things AI. A lot of you might have heard of AAIP, their certification program. They're part of the Blue Cypress family. But before we kick all of that off [00:01:00] and get into all of those details, I know you're celebrating a special day today. I know we're here at MMCT. We'll get to that in a minute, but you're celebrating your 15-year wedding anniversary today.  Erica Salm Rench: I am. Oh, yeah, that was a fun fact- Yeah ... that we shared right before. Yeah. So I will see my husband later this evening, which is great. He'll get some time with me. It seems like a fair trade-off, though, to be at MMCT. This is so fun.  Sharon Pare: Yes. And then I have another thing. You were talking to me a little bit about your hotel. You know how when you travel a lot, I know for work. And everyone has their ritual when they get back to the hotel and what they do. Is there any things that you need to do? I'll give you an example. So for me, when I'm traveling alone in a hotel room, I always have to sleep with Friends on. Do you have something like that you do?  Erica Salm Rench: You and I are two peas in a pod. I usually have Friends on in the background, or I always make sure I have snacks with me in my purse, because I feel like a lot of times the hotel snacks, they're not as healthy or nutritious as you [00:02:00] want them. Yeah. So I always have nuts packed or protein bars in my purse, and then I lay out my snacks so that I have something in the morning to wake up to. Sharon Pare: Okay. Yeah. I love it. Okay, so I wanna talk about MMCT, but before we get into it, you did win an award this year with AWTC, the Technology Leadership Award. Tell me a little bit about that and what that award meant for you. I was there. I was really excited to see you win that. Erica gives a great speech, by the way. She's a great speaker.  Erica Salm Rench: Thank you. I was so humbled by it. It was so exciting. I was just overwhelmed by the award, and Rebecca and Carrie and Jill, and the amazing women at AWTC. They do such a good job of bringing women together and empowering them, and they truly filled a gap in the association space. It is [00:03:00] so cool to be a part of that movement, and I think it was just really emphasized last night at the AWTC Happy Hour. Sharon Pare: I was just going to ask-  Erica Salm Rench: Oh my ... Sharon Pare: What did you think about that?  Erica Salm Rench: You literally could barely move in that room, because everyone is so supportive of what they're doing, and women in technology need to be celebrated. I think about my daughter, and I mentioned her too in my award acceptance speech because- She wants to be a rocket scientist. She wants to send my little one to the moon. She wants to be an astronaut.  Sharon Pare: I am all about that.  Erica Salm Rench: And has there ever been a better time to be a rocket scientist for a lady, right? Come on, let's elevate these women who wanna be in STEM.  Sharon Pare: That's amazing.  Erica Salm Rench: So I just, it just was all that together, all of those feelings together, and it was an amazing moment. I was, again, so humbled, so thrilled, and it was just great to celebrate with all the 15 other women who [00:04:00] won awards as well. So what a great, what a fabulous night.  Sharon Pare: So tell us how you stumbled into the association world. Nobody has a, "I wanna grow up and I wanna be in associations." I, I don't know. Maybe you did. Yeah. But did you stumble into it? How did you get here, and how did you say, "Hey, I'm gonna support the association community"?  Erica Salm Rench: Yeah, so it, like you said, it happened a little bit by accident. So I guess I'll go, like, all the way to the origin story. When I was getting my MBA at Tulane, Mithun Nagarajan, who was the founder of Aptify and sold Aptify to Community Brands, it was when he was still at Aptify, and he came to speak to my class about what they're doing at Aptify, how they help associations, and how their purpose was to help associations fulfill their purposes. And that just was so cool to me. At the time, I was actually working for Tulane as well, so in nonprofit land, and I was just, I was moved by that, and I went to speak with him after he spoke to our class, [00:05:00] and so we, that was our first connection. And then fast-forward after I graduated with my MBA from Tulane, I went to run a big team in a marketing agency. We had the 1,200 clients, just the largest agency in the Gulf South, at least at the time. And my team did all of them, executed on all the digital services, so like everything on like SEO, repurposing content, paid online ads, web dev, you name it. And when Ameet and I then reconnected, like four years after I was at the agency, and he was sharing with me this opportunity to use AI to make some of the things that like essentially we were doing at the agency so much more efficient and effective and personalized, it was, it seemed like a no-brainer. I was like, "This is where the world is going." So that was almost nine years ago, and I was with Rasa for about seven years, and now I've been with Sidecar for going on a couple years. So I've been with the Blue Cypress family of companies for almost nine, [00:06:00] and this community's amazing. Everyone's so kind and warm, and I really do feel like I'm making an impact teaching people about AI, and that's what we do at Sidecar as well. So, you know, the rest is history. It felt like the right fit.  Sharon Pare: And that's exactly what that award, I think, it really shows as an example of what you're doing for the community. So thank you so much for all the women in technology.  Erica Salm Rench: Oh my gosh.  Sharon Pare: And what I do wanna mention really quick is Amit and the Blue Cypress family of brands. And one thing that I know for 2030 is they wanna make sure these associations are going to be in that same realm of Fortune 500 companies when it comes to technology. Yeah, yeah. And one of the things that I think about all the time, and asked this on some of the podcasts, the Associations Now team knows that I've asked this before, but- Not controversially, but traditionally, associations are a little bit behind. Sure. And now with AI coming up to speed and associations starting to finally get into that world, do you think that associations [00:07:00] finally have this opportunity to be at the same starting line as their for-profit counterparts? What do you think?  Sharon Pare: I know you think that we're finally there. We are not the dinosaurs that they say we are.  Erica Salm Rench: Absolutely. There has never been a more leveled playing field than there is right now. Great. This technology can amplify the work that almost anyone does, and being part of the movement where we teach people how to harness it and how to leverage it is so incredible. Like you said, Blue Cypress's purpose is to make association groups as powerful as the Fortune 500 by 2030, and the part that Sidecar plays in that is, is like this chapter one for them, right? We're helping to educate people. So there are so many people that say, "I don't know where to begin. We want to, quote, unquote, 'do AI,' but where do I start?" Education is a great place to start because you [00:08:00] can speak the same language as your team, you can figure out which tools and which puzzle pieces fit in to help you amplify your mission and your purpose, because it's not just about AI for AI's sake, right? It's about figuring out which of these tools can be harnessed to push forward your organization, and that's why education is such a great foundation for all of that. Sharon Pare: And I think MMCT is obviously the perfect place for it. Yeah. So let's talk about that a little bit. I know you had a session yesterday. Yeah. I want you to talk a little bit about your session, but are there any other moments and themes that you're hearing on the floor that are starting to become signals for where our industry is moving? Erica Salm Rench: Absolutely, yeah. No, I'm so glad you brought that up, because throughout my session, I always like to do a lot of live polling, like hand-raising, "Where are you? Where's your organization?" So I always start with, "How frequently do you use AI?" Starting with, "I've never touched the stuff," to, "I- I've dabbled," to weekly, t

In this episode of Associations NOW Presents: Industry Partner Edition, guest host Sharon Pare of HighRoad Solutions welcomes Brandt Krueger, director of industry relations and partnerships at EventMobi, to discuss the evolving world of event sponsorships and association partnerships. Brandt shares why many sponsorship models have remained unchanged for years and offers practical strategies for creating more meaningful, results-driven opportunities. The conversation explores the importance of understanding sponsor goals, moving beyond traditional sponsorship tiers, embracing thoughtful innovation, and designing event experiences that deliver greater value for both associations and their partners. Check out the video podcast here: https://youtu.be/NgdE7JR8lOc   Associations NOW Presents is produced by Association Briefings.   Transcript Sharon Pare: Welcome to this episode of Association NOW Presents: Industry Partners Series, an original podcast series from the American Society of Association Executives. I'm Sharon Pare, partnerships director of High Road, a HubSpot agency, co-host of Rethink Association, and your host of this series throughout the year. This episode is sponsored by EventMobi. Today, I'm joined by Brandt Krueger, and before we dig into sponsorships and partnerships, I know it wasn't exactly a straight line getting into associations for you. And what I would like to know first, and how I wanna get started is, I think you started in theater, and I wanna find out how you stumbled into the association space, and then we'll dig into all the other important stuff we wanna talk about today. Brandt Krueger: We could probably do a whole podcast on just that, but it's 'cause like so many of us, nobody comes in a straight line, right? It's always falling in, falling out. So yeah, came out of college with a theater degree in technical light; so lighting, so technical theater, so lighting, audio, building sets and props, and things like that. And was working for a theatrical lighting house, and was asked to resign at some point due to things we don't need to get into. But I took one name out of the Rolodex, and he was this kind of crazy, old hippie guy with long hair who did audio for these events. So I guess there's these events that people need audio and video for, and wound up working with him doing small events, and then got hoovered up by one of his major clients, who is one of the largest meeting and event production companies here in Minneapolis. So I wound up working for them for about 18 years doing lights and sound, and mostly audiovisual and production technology. But a sizable portion of their clients were associations. So already starting to get to know them in that context, in that space. Left them, went out on my own, did about 10 years of event technology consulting for a company I created called Event Technology Consulting, because I'm not very creative. So that consisted of a lot of trying to get people the right technology for them, a lot of asking questions, "What are you trying to actually do with it?" And then have worked my way around back into production again, working for another production company here. And then now, most recently, have worked my way into being the director of industry relations and partnerships for EventMobi. EventMobi is on the software side, so we're providing the mobile event app and the event management software that comes around it. But it all links together, right? This association through working with different types, different sizes of organizations, and then culminating in this new position with EventMobi where, when you and I were talking in the pre-show, I was saying I think 40% of our customer base is associations. And since then, I actually looked it up, and it's al- it's almost 50% of our business is actually with associations. So definitely have been stewing in this association world for quite some time.  Sharon Pare: You absolutely have, and it sounds like you've worked in production, AV, event technology, your own consulting thing. Now you're on the partnership side and industry relations, too. So just given your experience and working with a lot of these type of member orgs o- over all this time, what has changed the most since you've started?  Brandt Krueger: That's the funny thing about this industry, right, is it's a lot of the more things change, the more things stay the same. And so looking back over that career, obviously it's a very different environment, and we're doing things very differently, but it's always been very incremental. And it's not necessarily a bad thing. It's just the nature of this beast that you only get one shot at it. Other than the very lucky folks who are doing a road show or something like that where they're doing the same program multiple times. There's this it has to be bulletproof mentality that is pervasive across the event industry, whether it's associations or corporate. That all is pretty much the same. And even special events like weddings and birthdays and things like that. You've got this, you've gotta get it right in one shot. So that makes us slow-moving, especially when it comes to technology. And so that's something that is part of my career as being someone who's enthusiastic about technology. It's constantly like pulling the rope a little bit. "Okay, guys, come on. We can do this. We can do this." But having to prove it and having to show the value, show the ROI, all of these magic buzzwords that we use, is really, it really is a struggle. And so the more things change, the more things stay the same, and that's part of why I wanted to come on is to talk about some of the things that maybe we haven't changed in a while and might be worth looking at. Sharon Pare: I was just about to ask, why is it that the event professionals, why do you think it is that they struggle to adopt those new ideas even when they know that change is coming down the pipe? What is it that you think they're struggling with the most?  Brandt Krueger: There's a couple different reasons, and thinking specifically about the association space, a lot of it is because we've got situations where maybe someone is inheriting the event, or they're new to leadership. And so things get passed from person to person unless you're in one of the lucky associations where you're able to hire full-time staff. There's a through thread. There's a consistency of staffing and personalities from event to event. But on these, on smaller associations and chapters and things like that where people are constantly moving through, if you're lucky, there's a master doc that you can be handed off from, from president to president almost with a, some kind of ceremony of, "Okay, here's all the things you need to know," if you're lucky that. And so that contributes to it as well because we're copy and pasting. So that can be a big chunk of it is that we're just, "I'm sliding into the position. Okay, great, what did we do last year? Okay, great, let's do that again." But then also again is that second half is that bulletproof-ness, that we need to make sure that everything we're doing is grounded in reality, is grounded in safety. That's a big part of it as well, just feeling comfortable and feeling safe around the technologies and around the event design itself.  Sharon Pare: So that's why a lot of these orgs are running that same playbook year after year is- Yeah ... it feels safe, it feels comfortable, and they're just not trying to step out of the box at all. Brandt Krueger: But unfortunately, the times they are a-changin', right? And so when we think about, obviously I was focusing on kind of what hasn't changed, but what has-- What hasn't changed is the purpose of associations, which mainly is education, networking, learning from each other, meeting your peers, getting better at your job. All of these things are core fundamental parts of being a member of an association. But now, if I wanna learn something, the first place I go to is YouTube, or now, like an AI buddy, right? Is, "Hey, how do I fix the toilet again?" So we, we, this is the way that we do things now, so I can get my education online, and especially with online events and things like that. Networking, we've never been more connected as a society, whether it's LinkedIn or social media or Instagram, all of these things. So how do we stay relevant in those scenarios, and how do we keep our membership up, and how do we keep our sponsorship up? These are real questions that associations are struggling with, and the answer, unfortunately, might mean we need to rethink some of these things. Sharon Pare: Are you seeing any signals or signs that some of these associations might be operating on, on autopilot? You said a lot of them are. A new president comes in, new executive leadership comes in, and they're just basically copy and pasting some of those prospectus that they're seeing. What are some of those signs that these associations are just, quite frankly, doing the same thing they've been doing? Brandt Krueger: Sometimes it's literally copy and pasting. I saw that all the time in the audio visual world. Are we forgetting a date here  Sharon Pare: And there sometimes to change too? Brandt Krueger: Yeah, exactly. And hey, everybody's guilty of it. I've seen it in my own writing of oh, yeah, I'll just take what I did last year, uh, and then you forget to change a date. Exactly. That happens all the time because we're just, we're all busy and we're trying to shortcut things. But y- yeah, literally you'll see things copy and pasted from year to year. It's like that equipment doesn't even exist anymore. And so it's only natural that same type of thing would apply to sponsorships, would apply to exhibitors, that I think one of the biggest challenges of being part of an association is, especially when it's this transient site where you're moving in, you're t

Recorded live at ASAE’s Marketing, Membership, Communications + Tech Conference, guest host Brittany Lancor of PropFuel sits down with best-selling author and MarketingProfs CCO Ann Handley to discuss the power of “strategic patience” in a culture obsessed with speed. Handley challenges associations to focus on meaningful engagement over vanity metrics, communicate in members’ own language, and prioritize authentic, human-centered messaging. She also shares practical advice on creating more effective email communications and explains why AI is best used to uncover insights and support strategy—not to replace the human connection that drives engagement. Check out the video podcast here: https://youtu.be/nKZs2BI23bQ Associations NOW Presents is produced by Association Briefings.   Transcript Brittany Lancor: [00:00:00] Hello, everyone. Welcome to this month's episode of Associations NOW Presents, an original podcast series from the American Society of Association Executives. I am Brittany Lancor, senior marketing manager of PropFuel. We are recording today from ASAE's MM&C conference here in Washington, DC, where association professionals from across the industry are gathering to share ideas, build connections, and explore what's next for the community. Today, we are so excited to welcome Ann Handley, the world's first chief content officer, best-selling author, and CCO of MarketingProfs. She just delivered the keynote address on the first day of this conference, so we are going to ask some questions. The first question I have for you is where did you get your suit? This is amazing. If you are watching from home, you have to look at this suit. It's wonderful.  Ann Handley: So you're asking who am I wearing?  Brittany Lancor: Yes.  Ann Handley: Is that the question? Yes. Yeah, first of all, [00:01:00] thanks for having me. I'm really excited to be here with all of you, be here with you. So who am I wearing? Today I am wearing Alice + Olivia, and I'll tell you, my biggest stress today was not even the keynote, it was, do I include the bow? Brittany Lancor: I love it. Ann Handley: Or do I leave it off? It's detachable.  Brittany Lancor: The bow was the great choice.  Ann Handley: So I don't know, I went for it, and I like the way it kinda waves around on stage a little bit,  Brittany Lancor: like- Yeah ... I'm prancing around and doing whatever. Yes. It looked great. Yeah. Okay, next question. Oh, yeah, I guess the questions now. Who are you? Help us, like give a quick introduction of who you are, help the audience understand who we're talking with today.  Ann Handley: So yeah, obviously Ann Handley, chief content officer of MarketingProfs. I've been in marketing for a million years, a million dog years. That was like a million plus years. I founded a company called ClickZ ages ago, which is one of the first sources of digital marketing at a time when digital marketing was a sort of brand-new thing, and from there founded MarketingProfs, and I've written a few books about marketing and content, particularly Everybody Writes, which is a [00:02:00] Wall Street Journal bestseller. It's been translated into 19 different languages. The whole ethos of that is really helping marketers, not just content marketers, but all marketers and all businesses really figure out, how do we communicate in a way that's authentic and real, and uniquely us? And honestly, that's a message that we need more than ever now- Yeah in the age of AI. So yeah, author, entrepreneur. Speaker, obviously, and yeah, just friend of Brittany.  Brittany Lancor: Yeah? Yeah. And did I see you're also a dog mom?  Ann Handley: Oh, yeah. Most important thing. Yeah. Yeah, my Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, his name is Augie. He is a stage five clinger. I love him so much, and he loves me just even more. Because love is just that. Do you have a dog?  Brittany Lancor: I have two.  Ann Handley: Oh, you do?  Brittany Lancor: Yes.  Ann Handley: What kind?  Brittany Lancor: They're mutts. One's a terrier, blue heeler mix.  Ann Handley: Oh, wow.  Brittany Lancor: And the other is a pit bull terrier mix.  Ann Handley: What are their names?  Brittany Lancor: Archie and Pepper.  Ann Handley: Okay. Yeah. This is the information that you're here for, people. This is. Archie, Pepper, and Augie. Just-  Brittany Lancor: Yes ...  Ann Handley: remember that.  Brittany Lancor: Keep that in mind. Yeah. Okay, [00:03:00] so I am actually so excited to talk with you about all of the things related to the keynote.  Ann Handley: Yeah.  Brittany Lancor: So MM&C is Membership Marketing and Communications. And we also have tech as a part of this conference, right? Yes. So the marketing piece of things is so relevant to the audience that's here and the audience at home. So your keynote is about strategic patience in an, in this instant results world. We're so ready for things instantly, right? So for association who are under pressure to do more, and move faster, not always with more resources, how do you decide what should move fast and what is okay to move slower? Ann Handley: Yeah. So that's such a huge issue right now. So here's the deal. So marketing, and I think business in general, has a sort of addiction to speed, right? And it's like we always want to go faster from a customer or from a member standpoint. We always want to move them from, from the first time they hear about us to signing up for us [00:04:00] faster and faster. It's very much a treadmill that we're on. And it's easy to say, "Oh, that's because of AI." AI has just tossed rocket fuel on that impulse. But the truth is that marketing and business has always had this sort of addiction to speed. But you can look at anything that we do. It's like we always think that faster is better. And so my whole philosophy is that with my experience of being in marketing for 25 years, is that faster is not always better, and that I'm challenging the convention that, that we need to always think about the fastest way to do things because sometimes the fastest way is not the best way. Yeah. And so, so in answer to your question, the idea of, you know, when should we move fast and when shouldn't we, that's essentially what my whole keynote unpacked, and it comes down to how, to a couple of things. Number one, how we're measuring marketing, how we're measuring the impact that we have. And I think we need to think about it a little differently 'cause a lot of marketing is measured according to very specific [00:05:00] metrics that look at results, how fast we were able to do something. How did, did people click? Did they download? Did they join? Did they renew? And yeah, all that is important, but there's a lot of other smaller signals before that, that I think if we pay attention to, can start to inform the very question that you asked, like when do we move fast and when do we move slow? To give you a really specific example, one of the things that we don't look at enough in marketing is not the sugar rush metrics of those sort of did they do this or did they do that, or did they act, but before that, like the emotional resonance of it. You know, are we connecting with people who we wanna connect with? Do they feel inspired by us? Not just do they wanna buy, but what kind of language do they use? And so in the keynote today, I shared a framework for how do we move away from those sugar rush metrics of marketing and into something that's more, more substantive that measures the resonance of our programs. And by the way, like I just, I feel a need to mention this because I'm in marketing, but I have a new book coming out [00:06:00] around this topic in February of 2027. It's called ASAP: As Slow As Possible, When to Take the Long Road in a Shortcut World. It's about this very topic of marketing, but also it's broader than that because I think especially where AI is encouraging us to... Not encouraging us, like demanding in a lot of ways that we move faster. I think at the same time- The opposite is also true, right? That there are moments when we need to specifically step away from it, slow ourselves down, and just say, "Okay, here's a situation that matters to us as an organization, or that matters to me as a person." Brittany Lancor: Yeah. There's so much to unpack there, though, too, and I think the other piece of it is there are certain things that are going to take time. Yeah. So, and my background is marketing as well, so all of this resonates so much with me. Yes. There, the s- it's the slow game, right? Yeah. So, you wanna go as fast as possible, but like you had said, you need to figure out how to make a message resonate with an [00:07:00] audience, and sometimes that takes time. Ann Handley: And the thing is, this is not anti-speed. I love speed. I'm addicted to it just as much as anybody else. And so it's not a slowdown all the time, uh, but it's when speed becomes the only point that we get into trouble. And so I think it's that distinction that you make. Yeah, sometimes do more, move faster, but sometimes know when to pull back. And that knowing when, through either permission or recognizing those moments, is essentially what I'm, I've been obsessed with lately. And honestly, I've been thinking about this for ,no joke, 10 years. I first started talking about this at an industry event in 2016. On the main stage I talked about it, and I saw it then as very much like a marketing thing, which is content marketing specifically, around how we're creating content, how we're connecting with others, like how we're thinking about building audiences. I saw it then in a very tiny way, but the more that I started thinking about it, and the more that I started seeing signals from elsewhere, and then AI comes in and throws rocket fuel on this whole situation, and I'm like, "Oh, gosh- Yeah ... [00:08:00] now is the time." So yeah, you could say I've

In this episode of Associations NOW Presents: Industry Partner Edition, guest host Sharon Pare of HighRoad Solutions sits down with Leslie Johnson, chief sales officer at Visit Milwaukee, to explore why Milwaukee is gaining attention as a premier destination for meetings and events. Johnson discusses the city's recent growth, driven by the expanded Baird Center, a thriving culinary scene, and major events that have showcased Milwaukee on a national stage. The conversation highlights what sets Milwaukee apart from larger convention cities, including its walkability, affordability, authentic neighborhoods, and collaborative hospitality community. Johnson also shares insights into the city's "Flavor Era" campaign, new entertainment and cultural developments, and the experiences that make Milwaukee memorable for visitors. From lakefront festivals and iconic attractions to local dining recommendations, the episode offers a fresh look at a city that's quickly becoming a favorite among event planners and attendees alike. Check out the video podcast here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwbNMxvH6nc   This episode is sponsored by Visit Milwaukee. Associations NOW Presents is produced by Association Briefings.   Transcript Sharon Pare: [00:00:00] Welcome to this episode of Associations NOW Presents: Industry Partners Series, an original podcast series from the American Society of Association Executives. I'm Sharon Paré, partnerships director at High Road, a HubSpot agency, co-host of Rethink Association, and your host of this series throughout the year. This episode today is sponsored by Visit Milwaukee. Today, I'm joined by Leslie Johnson, chief sales officer at Visit Milwaukee. Leslie, could you give us the highlight reel and tell us what you're all about before we jump into it?  Leslie Johnson: Absolutely. Thank you so much, Sharon, for having me today. Sure, yeah. I'm Leslie Johnson. I'm the chief sales officer of Visit Milwaukee. I've been there just a little over six and a half years. Prior to getting into the space of the DMO side of the industry, I grew up in the hotel and restaurant industry for my entire career. Started with Hyatt Hotels, then decided to get into the restaurant side of the [00:01:00] business. I worked for Capital Grill restaurants, which has ultimately led me to Milwaukee. I had the ability to open that restaurant in Milwaukee a little over 21 years ago. And then while in Milwaukee, I made a few career changes. I worked for Marcus Hotels and Resorts, where I really leaned into learning more on the hotel operations. I was a general manager, director of sales and marketing, and then also extended that career into the resort side of the business and worked for Geneva National Resort, which is a very predominantly golf-focused organization. And then that's what led me to Visit Milwaukee. So there's my quick, 30-second elevator speech on my career. Sharon Pare: I love your 30-second elevator speech, but there are two things you left out, but I'm gonna do them for you since you didn't- Okay ... put your little accolades in. But since you've been on Visit Milwaukee, in 2022 you were recognized as the Milwaukee Business Journal Women of Influence, as well as most recently in 2025, the [00:02:00] International Association of Exhibitors and Events Outstanding Marketing and Salesperson of the Year. So woo- Good job, Leslie  Leslie Johnson: Thank you. Both of those awards were because of the relationship and partnership that we have within our organization and the marketing team, and the Women of Influence award had a lot to do with how we came out of COVID and the strategies that we put into place to really stand out and really elevate Milwaukee onto a different level than it had ever been elevated on before post-COVID. And then same with, yeah, the IAE award was all of the great things our marketing team and our sales team has done since the expansion of our convention center in 2024. Definitely. Those are team awards.  Sharon Pare: For sure, but you have a little bit of each aspect of that business, and I think that's a lot of the changes that Milwaukee is seeing right now, which I know we're about to dig into. I will say, and you're probably like, "Oh, we hear this too much," but one of my favorite shows growing up was That '70s Show. Okay. So every time I was th- I was thinking about Milwaukee, I keep thinking about that end credit, when [00:03:00] they're like, "Hello, Wisconsin" in the theme song at the beginning. Yeah. That's what I keep thinking about as we were getting into this podcast. But-  Leslie Johnson: But usually it's Laverne & Shirley and Happy Days, so I'm glad that you went '70s Show.  Sharon Pare: Okay, we're changing it up a little bit, right? And I think Milwaukee's changing it up, too. And I know that's what we're gonna talk about today, and that's really the theme around our conversation. I know Milwaukee's really having a moment. I know we're gonna talk about the expanded Baird Center. Some Michelin recognition, what, which I know is always a big deal no matter what city you're in, but especially in somewhere like Milwaukee. And the growing culinary and cultural scene. So Leslie, from your perspective, what do you think is driving that momentum right now? Leslie Johnson: It's so great that Milwaukee is absolutely having this moment. It- it's something that's been in the making for so many years. We're just now seeing the results of a lot of the, you know, the investments that have come together. With the expansion of the convention center, the incredible culinary growth that you just mentioned there, too. And a lot of this comes in tandem [00:04:00] with hosting such large events like the national, with the RNC that we hosted in '24, which seems like forever ago. As well as a couple of industry events, hosting Connect Marketplace. It really helped us step confidently into our identity, and I really think it gave us the ability to give the exposure of our city to people that have would never have had an opportunity or, I don't want to say a reason, there's always a reason to go somewhere, but- Yeah ... oftentimes as we know in our industry, the first time that they're gonna experience a city is through a meeting, through a conference. They had to come for a reason, and then they fell in love with the city, and we heard that over and over again every time that we host any sort of industry event. And so it's great to just see that our name is being recognized nationally in so many other ways, and it's giving us that ability to have Michelin also-  Sharon Pare: Yeah ...  Leslie Johnson: recognize us and say, "You know what? They do have a very strong culinary scene there in Milwaukee, and we need to go see what it's all about."  Sharon Pare: So let's talk about the Michelin stuff now, right? [00:05:00] I think that there is this campaign that Milwaukee's running right now called the Flavor Era, which I think is a really cool concept. Can you share a little bit more about when you say the Flavor Era, tell us a little bit more about that.  Leslie Johnson: Sure. Yeah, so the Flavor Era campaign is really Milwaukee embracing who we are in a bold and confident way, right? When we talk about flavor, we mean everything that gives our city personality, from our culinary scene to our neighborhoods, our festivals, our people, and honestly, the way visitors feel when they're here. We're not trying to just copy another city. We've leaned into what makes us distinctively different, what makes us Milwaukee, and I think that authenticity is really, wow, what today's traveler and meeting planners are looking for. When you think about the culinary scene and look at the culinary scene in Milwaukee, we are not a chain-heavy city. And I, as I talked about earlier, I brought a big chain to downtown Milwaukee, and it was a challenge 'cause Milwaukee is, "No, we don't do chains. We have some amazing creative chefs here in Milwaukee." And Ca- Capital Grille did a great job of [00:06:00] incorporating themselves into the market and really embracing the local culture and the people to build that restaurant to what it is today. We've stayed true to that, and from the culinary side of things, but yeah, it's more of it's like that swagger. We were always that Midwest, like shy, like we're not overconfident. We're not gonna speak loud and proud. We're just gonna be here in the corner, and Milwaukee's completely changed that tune.  Sharon Pare: Yeah. You started getting into this about the flavor, right? Yeah. And you know, how, what it means for meeting planners, and I know a lot of that is centered around the food and some of that, the local experiences, the local culinary experiences. But is there a little bit more to that flavor that the meeting planners and the attendees will love about Milwaukee that you wanna share?  Leslie Johnson: I think for planners and attendees, you know, flavor really means the experience that feels memorable and is rooted in the place instead of the intangibles, right? Like, in Milwaukee, attendees are not just gonna be sitting in a room, meeting room all day. They're gonna be walking around the lakefront between sessions, discovering incredible restaurants, experiencing our festivals [00:07:00] and really interacting with our hospitality community, which is genuinely welcoming individuals. I hear that all of the time from planners of, "We love everything you have about your city. You have all the tangibles," but it's really the people and the way they make you feel and how welcoming they are that they are just so appreciative when they come to our city.  Sharon Pare: That's awesome. And I think that being able to visit a city where it's your first time and you're not really sure what to expect, and finding hospitality that's above and beyond, a lot of the times that's what brings you right back to that city, right?

In this episode of Associations NOW Presents, guest host Catherine Galli, MPH, digital content writer at the International Coaching Federation, sits down with Wendy-Jo Toyama, MBA, FASAE, CAE, chief executive officer of the American Epilepsy Society, and Megan Henshall, chief impact officer of The Neu Project, to explore findings from the ASAE Foundation and MPI Foundation report, “Enhancing Neuroinclusive Practices in Association.” The conversation examines how associations can create more inclusive environments for neurodivergent staff, members, and event attendees by moving beyond accessibility checklists toward intentional belonging. Toyama and Henshall discuss persistent stigma surrounding neurodivergence, gaps in awareness and implementation across organizations, and the importance of making neuroinclusive efforts visible and actionable. They also share practical strategies such as quiet and resilient spaces at events, inclusive facilitation techniques, clearer accommodation pathways, and ongoing feedback mechanisms, while emphasizing curiosity, co-creation, and intersectionality as essential components of meaningful neuroinclusion. A special thanks to the sponsors and supporters of this important report: Choose Chicago Visit Kansas City MGM Resorts International Discover Puerto Rico Myrtle Beach Convention Center  MPI Foundation   Check out the video podcast here: https://youtu.be/l9p_s7Bz6QU Associations NOW Presents is produced by Association Briefings.   Transcript Catherine Galli: [00:00:00] Welcome to this month's episode of Associations NOW Presents, an original podcast series from the American Society of Association Executives. I'm Catherine Galli, digital content writer at the International Coaching Federation. Today, we're excited to welcome Wendy-Jo Toyama, CEO of the American Epilepsy Society, and Megan Henshall, chief impact officer at The Neu Project. Welcome, Wendy-Jo and Megan. Today, we're discussing the joint report through the ASAE Foundation and MPI Foundation, “Enhancing Neuroinclusive Practices in Association,” of course, which was done in partnership with Ferguson and The Neu Project. For those who may be new to the term, let's just dive right in. How do you define neuroinclusion, and why is it especially relevant for associations right now?  Megan Henshall: I can jump in first, and then I would actually love to hear your answer, too. So at The Neu Project, we define neurodiversity as all of us, right? We all have a [00:01:00] brain. Some brains are, quote, unquote, "neurotypical," some brains are neurodivergent, but there are billions of neurotypes and combinations of different ways of thinking and cognitive function. And so neurodiversity really speaks to, to all of us, and I think we're gonna dig into sort of the neurodivergent experience in this conversation today. But it really is important to note that it is speaking to brain health across everyone and how we support people with cognitive functioning, sensory processing, regardless of their neurotype  Wendy-Jo Toyama: Yeah, and then taking it to the next step, neuroinclusion then would be creating that sense of belonging so that everyone can feel seen and heard. So creating an environment that really embraces that neurological difference. And I think it's particularly important because, as Meg said, it cuts across all aspects of associations, and so we have members who are [00:02:00] affected by practices that are either barriers or neuroinclusive. We have staff. So it's really important to build this to be able to be effective and welcoming and create a sense of belonging for everyone. Catherine Galli: Thank you. That's a great explanation, and I think it really centers everybody into the topic today. So in the association industry, this report on neuroinclusion is a first. What are some of the most surprising or unexpected findings that emerged from the data?  Wendy-Jo Toyama: I will just start by saying I think associations have a long way to go on being a welcoming environment around disabilities in general. And so I think what surprised me is that there are some things that are going well or strengths we can build on. Like, I think it was not as bleak as I thought it was maybe going to be. For me, there are places where things are happening that we can build on. So that was one surprise to me.  Megan Henshall: One of the things that jumped out to me when we did the individual interviews, and we [00:03:00] interviewed samples across the entire association population, but in a, a particular interview with a senior leader, so executive, there was a comment made of, "I don't think this affects my particular organization. Everyone in my organization is very high-functioning." And so it's not-  Wendy-Jo Toyama: There's  that as well, yes.  Megan Henshall: I hear it all the time 'cause I travel constantly and talk with a bunch of different types of organizations and in different industries about neurodiversity, neuroinclusion, neuro-informed design, and I hear it a lot. There is still a lot of misunderstanding and stigma around what a neurodivergent person is and how they present. So I think one of the biggest sort of aha moments from any of these conversations, not just the brilliant work that we've done with ASAE and MPI, is that there are neurodivergent people in every rank, and a lot of this is completely invisible. Wendy-Jo Toyama: Yes.  Megan Henshall: And so it's really important to know that, and until that sort of awareness exists in your body, it's really hard to [00:04:00] support it, accommodate and advocate for it.  Wendy-Jo Toyama: Yeah, that was shocking when I read that finding. The other place that I was surprised about, and I think we probably need to dig in a little bit more, is there's a pretty big gap between member perceptions and staff perceptions. That came out, and it will need more exploration, I think.  Megan Henshall: Yeah.  Catherine Galli: It's interesting that you note visibility in there, and Wendy-Jo, you mentioned the connection to inclusive design and making things inclusive for people with different disabilities, and I think you've also tied it into inclusion in other topics within associations. I love that this study really tries to look at all of the different levels and how that fits within members, their experiences at different events, and then also for staff themselves. And you mentioned this gap between staff and members. When you compare those perspectives, [00:05:00] where do you see the biggest disconnects in how neuroinclusion is experienced? Wendy-Jo Toyama: The one area that I noted a disconnect was around communication, in that the scores are very good about creating design the way it's formatted and looks pretty effectively. But where it is-- where there is a gap is in the actual messaging and the content itself. So not being explicit about being inclusive and thoughtful and intentional around neuroinclusion was one big gap  Megan Henshall: This is a constant thing too. What we saw in the ASAE research is no different than most other organizations who are on a journey to try to implement a neuroinclusive practice. I think a lot of times we educate ourselves, we build an awareness, then we start to implement practices or tactics, and yet we don't story tell around those things, and we don't co-create with the people that we're building for. This is a real challenge across [00:06:00] all design practices, not just this one. But I think a lot of times people, especially event people, who are all heart, right? We care so much about others. We're doing these things in service of others, yet we're not talking about the real intention and thought and care behind those things, and we're not asking for feedback and conversation and dialogue around them when we do try them. So it's really hard to learn, and it's really hard to iterate and get better. But it's interesting because staff are like, "No, we're doing the thing." It's really hard to make it as impactful as possible unless we're inviting the people that it's for into the conversation and iterating, co-creating, evolving with them. So it's really interesting to watch how that's always a part of any journey with this work. But it's a really critical part of the journey.  Wendy-Jo Toyama: And Meg, I think when I look at the page that really calls out this gap [00:07:00] between leaders and members, members perceive us being further along than the staff do. And I think it's related to the journey. I think where it is closest is things around being supportive, creating intention. But where the gaps are the largest are like when you put it into action. So I think allocating resources to support neuroinclusive initiatives. There's a huge gap between what members think and what staff think on that front. There's a huge gap between development programs and training around neurodiversity awareness and understanding. There's a gap around actively involving neuroinclusive initiatives into your plan. So I think it's a journey gap, if you will.  Catherine Galli: It's interesting to hear both you, Wendy-Jo, and Meg, you've mentioned that there's this communication gap as well of we're trying to implement these neuroinclusive practices, and yet nobody knows that they're being [00:08:00] implemented, or perhaps members are not able to find the information they need. Can you explain that gap a little bit more?  Megan Henshall: I can speak to our experience working with companies and also my own experience advocating for myself. So I got diagnosed with autism at 40 after my son was diagnosed at three, so this has been a professional journey for me, but also a very personal one. But I think there's a lot of fear around work like this, and there's a lot of hesitation to lean in because what if we get it wrong or what if we try something that actually isn't helpful? And I think

In this episode of Associations NOW Presents: Industry Partner Edition, guest host Sharon Pare of HighRoad Solutions is joined by Stephanie Alexander-Priakos, director of meetings and conferences at Visit St. Pete-Clearwater; Myha Gallagher, vice president of brand at Future Partners; and Jill Stone, site selection manager with HelmsBriscoe, for a conversation about the evolving meetings and events landscape and the growing appeal of second-tier destinations like St. Pete-Clearwater, Florida. Drawing on industry research and firsthand planning experience, the guests discuss how planners are increasingly prioritizing affordability, accessibility, safety, and unique experiences when selecting destinations, while also navigating rising costs, convention center fatigue, and growing political considerations tied to location decisions. The conversation also explores emerging trends shaping the future of meetings, including the rise of “bleisure” travel, the importance of walkability and outdoor gathering spaces, and how AI is beginning to influence sourcing and attendee personalization. Alexander-Priakos highlights what continues to drive interest in St. Pete-Clearwater, from its award-winning beaches and walkable downtown to expanding meeting infrastructure, wellness-focused properties, and cultural attractions such as the Dalí and Chihuly museums. The episode also examines the role destination organizations play in supporting planners through site visits, logistics, and creating memorable attendee experiences that extend beyond the convention center. Check out the video podcast here: https://youtu.be/dQzqtjc_2N0   This episode is sponsored by Visit St. Pete-Clearwater. Associations NOW Presents is produced by Association Briefings.   Transcript Sharon Pare: [00:00:00] Welcome to this episode of Associations NOW Presents: Industry Partner Series, an original podcast series from the American Society of Association Executives. I'm Sharon Pare, partnerships director at High Road, a HubSpot agency, and your host of this series throughout the year. This episode is sponsored by Visit St. Pete-Clearwater.  Today, I'm joined by three fantastic guests. First, I wanna introduce Myha Gallagher, vice president of brand at Future Partners, where she helps bring meeting and travel industry research to life through data-driven storytelling and insights. Stephanie Alexander-Priakos, director of meetings and conferences at Visit St. Pete-Clearwater, who's passionate about showcasing the destination's award-winning beaches, culture, hospitality, and group experiences. And Jill Stone, site selection manager with HelmsBriscoe    and co-host of the In the [00:01:00] Genes podcast, who brings more than 35 years of experience helping planners create successful meetings and events throughout the world. Today, we're talking about trends shaping the meetings and events industries, meeting and events industry, and why more planners and associations are looking beyond traditional convention destinations toward places like St. Pete-Clearwater. So I'm gonna put a little disclaimer here, 'cause as a Florida girl born and raised, and I think I mentioned this to you ladies before, I have to say it's been really fun watching the west coast of Florida evolve. 20-plus years ago. I don't wanna date myself here, but in college a lot of us on the east side of Central Florida, we just didn't head west all that often. And now here in the 2020s, 2026, I think St. Pete-Clearwater has become one of the most talked about destinations, right? Meetings, events, food, maybe sports, and maybe just the overall experience. So I'm really excited to dig into all of this today. So Myha, I really wanna kick off your work [00:02:00] with the research, because I think it will frame this entire conversation. So Future Partners, which I know you're very heavily involved with that survey, every year you do a survey of meeting planners to understand the trends that are impacting the meetings industry. So what would you say are some of the top emerging trends as it relates to St. PeteyClearwater?  Myha Gallagher : Yeah, I'm happy to share that, Sharon. Thank you so much for having us on. The first and probably the biggest trend that we see coming out of our latest survey is the rise in interest among meeting planners in sourcing second-tier destinations. In fact, nearly 81% of planners that we surveyed agreed that second-tier destinations are growing in popularity for events, and this is really being driven by the demand for new experiences, a perception that second-tier cities are much safer than first-tier cities, and then cost savings in sourcing smaller destinations as well. And then we're also hearing from planners that their attendees are having [00:03:00] convention center fatigue. Just being stuck in the four concrete walls of a convention center can really drain your energy, and so planners are sharing with us that they are looking for more differentiated experiences and, of course, beautiful scenery to keep their attendees engaged and energized. And then lastly, unfortunately, there's been a considerable rise in agreement among planners that politics are having an effect on the destinations that they're sourcing. In fact, 61% of planners said they have had to reconsider a destination due to controversial issues in the past 12 months alone. And in subsequent conversations with planners, they've shared with us that, of course, they're planning events for large groups, many diverse attendees, and they wanna make sure that the destinations that they select will be safe and welcoming for their groups. And this is an area where St. Pete Clearwater has done a fantastic job crafting each message and ad campaign to [00:04:00] really showcase how welcoming a destination they are.  Sharon Pare: So I wanted to dig in a little bit more. You mentioned this convention center fatigue, this attendee fatigue, right? And like you said, a lot of the attendees say don't wanna be within that traditional sense in those four walls of the convention center now, right? And perhaps we're gonna dig into this a little bit more in the conversation, but can you touch on that a little bit about are planners now looking for destinations where the city itself becomes part of the entire event experience?  Myha Gallagher : Oh, absolutely. I think the traditional sense of conventions and convention centers, especially with younger attendees coming into the mix now with Gen Z, planners are really looking for ways to engage that younger audience, and we know there are different tools that need to be used to activate our younger convention attendees. And one tactic is definitely sourcing more unique spaces, making sure you're in a really [00:05:00] beautiful environment to keep the energy up. And that's not to say convention centers are going away at all. They serve a very specific and vital part of the meetings industry. But for planners who are hosting smaller groups, not citywides, they are definitely looking towards more unconventional and more unique spaces to host their events. Sharon Pare: And to add to that, what right now are planners ... And don't worry, Jill, I'll be getting to you soon. But what are they asking for that maybe three or four years ago they weren't asking for? Is there anything different? Is there a shift that you've seen?  Myha Gallagher : Yeah. The top trend around that, I think it comes as no surprise to anyone in the room, is the use of AI. Many planners are using AI to help with their sourcing decisions, and they're also thinking about ways that AI can be integrated into the meeting environment to [00:06:00] personalize meeting agendas for their attendees. And like every other industry, AI is making its impact, and, and it'll be interesting to see how planners continue to leverage the tool to evolve their meetings. Sharon Pare: I'm gonna bring it over to Jill. And it's really interesting, Miha, to hear about the research side of things because again, I think it's really reshaping how the planners are thinking about some of these things today, and how they're planning their meetings. So Jill, after decades, I don't wanna say many, but after decades working directly, well, it just shows your expertise and your wisdom around really knowing your stuff. But after working with these directors and planners and clients after all this time, are you seeing those shifts play out in real time? And maybe you can tell us about a recent experience you had with Visit St. Pete/Clearwater, and tell us a little bit more about that.  Jill Stone: Sure. Miya took most of my answers, I gotta say. But I got a few left I think that maybe I can share. She's right. Clients are looking for [00:07:00] lots of different things. Mainly, there's, the safety issue's huge. Politics is huge unfortunately. And I've had clients leave a particular hotel or destination, or just totally discount it altogether because of that. And then there's other things that happen, laws that are passed, et cetera, that maybe they can't either agree with or get on board with. But yes, I just had a client at the Wyndham Clearwater Beach, and St. Pete was great. They offer free things for clients, and I'm sure Stephanie's gonna get into all the things that they offer and the things that they can do. But they also help when I'm looking for a destination, and maybe I have forgotten one. They're quick to tell me, "Hey, look at this one, too." And- What I found, especially when I interviewed Stephanie for our podcast, is that they have some great hotels and resorts of all various sizes. So if a client has a large size meeting, let's say 4- or 500 people, that can be done, but also some of the smaller meetings can be at some of the more boutique style hotels or those [00:08:00] kinds of things. But, and one other thing they're looking for is walkability to things, ease of getting to

In this episode of Associations NOW Presents: Industry Partner Edition, guest host Sharon Pare of HighRoad Solutions sits down with Georgina Donahue, Director of Community Innovation and Strategy at Higher Logic, and Rachel Mace, CAE, Director of IT and Database at the National Pest Management Association, to discuss how associations can better understand members and use that insight to drive smarter strategy. They explain how most organizations have plenty of data but little usable intelligence because systems don’t integrate and staff lack a unified, individual-level view across programs, leading to decisions based on gut instinct and missed warning signs like “silent churners.” The guests distinguish reports from behavioral signals and patterns that predict engagement and renewal, share examples of targeted outreach and pandemic-era webinars boosting recruitment and retention, and discuss using engagement scoring, dashboards, and guidance to act at scale. They recommend auditing where data lives, focusing on high-signal sources, and making incremental improvements rather than chasing perfect data. Check out the video podcast here: https://youtu.be/QCQXIDc_cYI   Associations NOW Presents is produced by Association Briefings.   Transcript Sharon Pare: [00:00:00] Welcome to this episode of Associations NOW Presents: Industry Partner Series, an original podcast from the American Society of Association Executives. I'm Sharon Pare, Partnerships Director at Highroad, and your host of this series throughout the year. This episode is sponsored by Higher Logic.  Today, we're excited to welcome Georgina Donahue, Director of Community Innovation and Strategy at Higher Logic, along with Rachel Mace, CAE, Director of IT and Database at the National Pest Management Association. Our conversation today is about how associations can better understand their members and turn that insight into smarter strategy. Georgina, Rachel, welcome to the show.  So I think this is something a lot of associations are quietly dealing with, so why don't we jump in? So let's start with something most associations don't want to say out loud. Most of them are making decisions about their members based on very [00:01:00] little actual insight. Why is that, and how common is it?  Georgina Donahue: I think that most associations have more data than they've ever had, right? They have data coming in from all over the place. They have their AMS records, their event history. They have a community platform. They have email opens, right? So they have this huge bulk of data, but the problem is that almost none of it actually talks to each other, so they end up flying blind even though they have this embarrassment of riches, but they can't access it. They don't know which members are thriving and which ones are drifting, which ones are gonna silently churn in a couple months from now. And the problem actually is not just small organizations who don't have the resources to wrangle the data. It's large, sophisticated tech stacks see this problem as well because the data exists, but it's just really siloed  Rachel Mace, CAE: Yeah, I would have to echo that. There's a lot of silos. [00:02:00] Almost every time I start a job at an association or even at a vendor that services associations, the first thing we have to deal with is untangle the glut of information that they have, what they want to actually access and use. And then we also have to talk through, okay, once we decide what we're gonna use, how are we gonna get it there? Integrations remain such a huge problem with most associations. We find that our data lives in completely separate places, and that data doesn't pipe into new places very easily. So that's been a big issue, and it's not the association staff's fault. We are not integration engineers. We are not high-level data scientists. We came here to work in the nonprofit industry and serve our members. We don't have a background in that expertise. So that data mess exists everywhere, large associations or small associations, and we find that more and more association professionals, whether they like to admit it or not, are starting to realize that they can't make decisions based on the gut anymore, which is how we were making decisions.[00:03:00]  I can even recall way back in the 20-teens encountering a situation where an association professional said, "I have an idea. We're gonna use the power of social credit, so to speak, to get people to reach out to each other and encourage them to join the association." But the problem was this professional was working in a trade association environment, so the other member associations or prospect member associations were competitors, and it's very hard to convince a competitor to join the same association as you. But their gut said, "I've seen referral campaigns work throughout the private sector or in professional societies where it's the individual that's the member." So they went with their gut, and that campaign didn't work out, and they thought this is a personal failure. It's not. It's just you didn't have access to the insights and data that you needed to safely feel you could experiment with those types of campaigns in a way that's a bit more controlled with a bit more information behind it  Georgina Donahue: Yeah. I think the other thing that we're seeing in the space is that [00:04:00] as our industry standards for social interaction and for engagement with for-profit brands, for social brands, anything, it rises, right? We're used to having the Netflix algorithm know exactly what show we want to watch next. We're used to logging into a new platform and selecting our content preferences immediately, and then having really sophisticated algorithms understand who we are, know who we are. So at the same time that our association professionals are trying to sort through this, sometimes relying on that gut instinct, the base of members, their standards are rising because they're used to it in other areas, right? And so that gut instinct is becoming less and less effective for them because there was some grace, there was some buffer there, right? And now members, because of what they're experiencing in the consumer space, do not have [00:05:00] that grace that they're willing to offer. They're a little bit more frustrated, and they expect us to know who they are, and they expect us to tailor and segment our message specifically to their journey  Sharon Pare: I wanna dig into the gut instinct part a little bit later, but you, Georgina, talked about something you call the silent churner. Can you explain what that is? Is that like the quiet quitter? I- is that a little bit similar? Tell us a little bit about that. Georgina Donahue: It kind of is. It is. It's the most dangerous member that you have, because everybody has the members that are squeaky wheels, that maybe they're frustrated, maybe there's some dissatisfaction, and they are telling you the areas that they would like to see improvement. While sometimes a sassy email might be difficult to receive in the moment, they are giving you very clear instructions about what they need in order to continue to receive value from the association. The silent churner is the most dangerous. They just go quiet, and then by the time they don't renew, they've already made the decision not to renew three or [00:06:00] four months ago, and they've already been quietly stepping away, so they stop attending events, they stop posting in the community, they stop sending sassy emails asking for their hopes and dreams to be fulfilled, right? And many associations don't find out that a member has churned until the renewal doesn't come through, and it's way too late to make a change because there's already a history of taking a step back and looking for other resources for support.  Rachel Mace, CAE: And this is an area where I feel like associations, their gut actually is probably correct. They already know who's not gonna renew inside. We know that if you're a new member and you don't do enough with us in that first year, you're probably not going to renew. We know if you're an existing member and your engagement falls off, we know you're not going to renew. We know if you're nearing retirement, you're not gonna renew. So we in our guts understand and know who isn't going to renew, but the challenge is identifying them proactively and being able to do something about it six months before that renewal cycle [00:07:00] hits. Because once you get to the renewal cycle, it's a little too late to ask someone to open up their wallet and invest in membership again. So we really need intelligence to tell us, "Hey, I've flagged these bottom 20% of engagers. I need those people to do something, anything." And what they really need, I've always told this to people, is you need to put them in a low barrier to access activity, not something that's gonna require a huge outlay of cash. If I'm new to ASAE, I'm not gonna tell you to go to the ASAE Annual Conference. That's a huge outlay of cash. But I might say, "Hey, why don't you go into ASAE Collaborate and ask a burning question? It's a private, safe space where you can ask something that maybe you wouldn't wanna ask on LinkedIn or publicly." It's a great way to get me engaged, give me something sticky to do, and maybe I will think about that as I renew next year. It's not the big ask, it's the ask that's practical and reasonable for me, a low engager. But we as association professionals, [00:08:00] we know that the low engagers, those are the ones who are gonna silently churn, if anyone  Sharon Pare: I want to unpack this a little bit more, and I know you started to dig into this a little bit too, Rachel, but what's actually causing this? Why can't most associations see the full picture of their members?  Georgina Donahue: I think the reason why it's so endemic across the ent

In this episode of Associations NOW Presents, guest host Gary LaBranche, FASAE, CAE, AAiP, CEO of the Risk and Insurance Management Society, is joined by Francisco Gómez, Founder and CEO of Factum Global, and Pietro Macchiarella, MBA, CAE, Senior Director of Data and Insights at YPO, for a timely conversation on how geopolitical disruption is reshaping the association landscape. They explore the slowdown of trade globalization, increasing travel and visa challenges impacting events and engagement, and the growing tension between taking action and staying silent as political issues intersect with mission-driven work. The discussion emphasizes the importance of clear, grounded communication with boards, along with practical strategies like scenario planning and tabletop exercises to prepare for uncertainty. The group also examines how associations can stay agile without compromising their core mission, including the role of AI in monitoring trusted information sources and the value of incorporating diverse global perspectives. As the conversation unfolds, they point to a more fragmented, multipolar world, rising cyber and data risks, and evolving member expectations—offering insight into how association leaders can navigate what comes next. Check out the video podcast here: https://youtu.be/hc8BmpdGDhw   Associations NOW Presents is produced by Association Briefings.   Transcript Gary LaBranche, FASAE, CAE, AAiP: [00:00:00] Welcome to this month's episode of Associations NOW Presents, an original podcast series from the American Society of Association Executives. I'm Gary LaBranche, Chief Executive Officer of RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society. I am delighted to be joined on this podcast with Francisco Gómez, founder and CEO of Factum Global, a boutique consulting firm specializing in international expansion, market analysis, and strategic growth. Also, joining us is Pietro Macchiarella, senior director, data and Insights at YPO, the world's largest community of chief executives that come together to become better leaders and better people. I've said a little bit about each of you, but if you could tell us a little bit more, starting with you, Francisco. Francisco Gómez: Thank you, Gary. Pleasure to be here with you and Pietro. As you said, I founded Factum Global, a firm that [00:01:00] specializes in helping both for-profit companies as well as associations and nonprofits expanding internationally. We focus on truly helping organizations understand where to go, how to do it, and how to sustain that growth, and doing this for the last 20 years or so, and delighted to be here. Gary LaBranche, FASAE, CAE, AAiP: Excellent, Pietro.  Pietro Macchiarella, MBA, CAE: Thank you Gary. I'm Pietro. Good to be here with both of you. As you said, Gary, I work for YPO, which is the largest organization of CEOs. We have 37,000 member members in hundred 40 countries, so as international as it gets. And myself, I am very international. I've grown up in Europe, I've lived in three different countries in Europe and then moved to the US about 20 years ago. I'm also the chair of the ASAE International Association Advisory Council, which right now is a great place to be because we are the center of, of the storm in a way, supporting associations in their international experience or trying to international.[00:02:00]  Gary LaBranche, FASAE, CAE, AAiP: Fantastic. Both of you obviously have a tremendous non-North American experience, and I'm just curious. Currently the world is experiencing what we, in the risk management community, call geopolitical disruption, which is a fancy way of saying chaos is abounding in the our current world today and associations and corporations. Consumers and people in business have to try to navigate all of that, and that's uncharted territory to say the least. Pietro is, your group is international as it gets. What does geopolitical disruption mean? How are you in seeing it impact YPO?  Pietro Macchiarella, MBA, CAE: So first of all, disclaimer from the lawyers: These are my personal opinions and not the ones of my employer. I will say the one, some of the assumptions that we are taking for granted up until now are gone. If you look at it as being a constant. Since the, at least the 1990s, uh, I think the, [00:03:00] there is an index, I think it's the World Bank has an index that shows the trade ness where you look basically at the imports and export globally. And you divided by the, the GDP, the global GDP and the index has been growing like crazy. In fact, I think it's being twice as fast as, as a global GDP growth in the past 20 years. And so. We went from, again, trade being about 30% of global GDP to being 60% or more. And then suddenly this has come to a halt. Everything is being questioned again. And so obviously there's a, this has an impact on any membership organization. In fact, I feel like we are actually more impacted than our members. Uh, because if you think about the, the true political uncertainty affects the, the members themselves. So their companies, if you're a trade organization or in our case a business organization affects the way you operate the, the association and also affects all the members interact with each other. So it's a, it's a triple head and [00:04:00] obviously that that impacts everything that you do. At the same time, I'm the eternal optimist and one thing that I do say is the problems are often opportunities and if very often we are. Nice to have for members, all of us in the association space. But when there is a crisis, we become actually a must have if we are relevant and if we are relevant to what they need at the moment. So I do think that right now what I see is actually a bigger relevance for organizations like ours because we are, we are helping members when they need us.  Gary LaBranche, FASAE, CAE, AAiP: That's interesting. So if you are truly valuable, uh, and relevant, you'll be more valuable and relevant in times of poly crisis or chaos, or when the world is not going according to what we had thought it would. Francisco respond to that. Are you seeing that in your practice?  Francisco Gómez: Yes, of course. I do think that the main thing, however, is that for associations, your political disruption is truly no longer [00:05:00] something that is happening out there. I think we used to see that as a side thing where we're gonna keep this in scenario planning and we're gonna think about the what ifs, but it was not as real and it is now showing up in a very practical ways. When you think about travel decisions, event planning, member expectations, partner relationships, sanctions, they are privacy concerns. Reputation, right? So it's all over the place. And what makes it especially difficult is that associations have traditionally tried to stay away from politics. But today I think that this is much harder because there is risk not only in taking action, but also in not taking action. And that creates tension because associations want to focus on policy and not politics, but in a lot of cases it are now intertwined. So the real challenge is not just whether to speak. But how do we speak in a way that is consistent with mission and values? In the past, many associations tried to stay away and above [00:06:00] politics, but today's silence can be read as a statement too, right? So that's something that I think most associations are wrestling with right now.  Gary LaBranche, FASAE, CAE, AAiP: So you touched on two, I think, very important pieces there. One. One is that external issues really are internal, even down to when and how we travel. That's a pretty internal, pretty internal issue. And then secondly, the whole idea that you, by not engaging, you are saying something by not speaking out, by not engaging with the chaotic world as it is that can be read, can be viewed as negatively as if you said something. And I think that's especially true the more. That the association presents to the world, the more engaged with the world. So I was thinking as you were talking, I was thinking for RIMS, one of the ways that we primarily relate to the world is through our certification program, which is growing more rapidly outside of North America than inside North America. Uh, but also through our convention, which we call Risk World, we bring about [00:07:00] 11,000 people together every year. And Risk World just isn't an educational conference. It's a commercial marketplace. It is the world's largest commercial insurance B2B marketplace, and people from all over the world come there to place their insurance, to buy insurance, the commercial insurance. So it's actually a very critical part of the whole value proposition to the commercial insurance world. But this year we're seeing a definite impact on some people not being able to get. A visas or not being able to get visas in time to come to the convention in, in Chicago, uh, in Philadelphia also, one of our students, we student groups, we have a, with our partner, Spencer Educational Foundation, we provide a platform for, uh, international student competition in risk management and one of the universities from Africa. I'm not able to get a visa so far. So we're trying to work through those issues, but this, this constant chaos that we're seeing, the changes [00:08:00] of rules, regulations, consumer preference in, in the case of Canada, we're also seeing significant pullback from our Canadian friends who just don't want to deal with the American economy right now. How are you communicating those kinds of risks to your stakeholders, to your leaders and board members and others that are important to your organizations?  Pietro Macchiarella, MBA, CAE: So I think that there is a difference between maybe concern and panic, and I think panic happens when there's no plan. My, my opinion of that's when leadership to step in, when, particularly when talki

In this episode of Associations NOW Presents: Industry Partner Edition, guest host Sharon Pare of HighRoad Solutions sits down with Kurt Heikkinen, CEO of Forj, to explore how to connect learning, community, and member value into one cohesive experience. Drawing on member experience research, Kurt highlights a core insight—members join and stay for two primary reasons: to learn and to connect with peers. When those experiences are separated, engagement suffers. The conversation unpacks how expectations are shifting, particularly among early-career professionals who expect personalized, always-on access to content and community, not just isolated touchpoints like annual events or standalone courses. Kurt makes the case for rethinking how associations deliver value—moving away from fragmented systems toward unified, AI-enabled platforms that bring learning and community together. He shares real-world results from EcoAmerica and offers a clear takeaway for association leaders: start with the member experience, break down internal silos, and design for connection, not just content. Check out the video podcast here: https://youtu.be/J0QxOGuP6Ks   Associations NOW Presents is produced by Association Briefings.   Transcript   Sharon Pare: [00:00:00] Welcome to Association NOW Presents: Industry Partner Series, an original podcast series from the American Society of Association Executives. I'm Sharon Pare, director of Partnerships at High Road Solutions, a HubSpot Solutions and implementation partner, and your host of this series throughout the year. Today, we're exploring how associations think about learning and how that connects to renewal. I'm joined by Kurt Heikkinen. Kurt has built and exited multiple SaaS companies, led mergers and acquisitions, and raised more than $150 million in venture and private equity capital. He's helped companies grow from startup to over $50 million in recurring revenue, and today he's focused on helping associations and organizations rethink how they serve and engage their members. Kurt, welcome  Kurt Heikkinen: Sharon. Thanks so much. Excited to spend this half hour with you and the audience.  Sharon Pare: Absolutely, [00:01:00] and thank you so much, Kurt. You've spent much of your career building companies in fast moving markets. I'm curious what drew you to the association space?  Kurt Heikkinen: Yeah, great question, Sharon. As I entered the space and started to learn more about the mission driven nature of these organizations, I was just compelled to help. After meeting with dozens and dozens of executives, I heard both. Their passion and mission, but also the challenges they face. And so after a couple decades serving the corporate space, I felt compelled to jump in and really help leaders of mission-driven organizations realize their full potential.  Sharon Pare: Why don't we jump into it? So when I hear association leaders talk about value, connection, and education, it always comes up. I think renewal conversations are still happening everywhere, and sometimes I think about it like Netflix versus Instagram, right? Netflix gives you a huge library of content and [00:02:00] then Instagram keeps you coming back for more because it feels dynamic. It feels social, even though I think the influencer community might be dying a little bit. So I'm wondering if associations sometimes operate more like a content library than a living network. So my question for you, Kurtin, from where you sit, what truly keeps members coming back year after year and what do associations tend to overestimate? Kurt Heikkinen: It's a really great question, and I think you can see some of the parallels from an experience standpoint between Netflix and Instagram. But when you think about the core of associations, many of them view themselves as the trusted place, the trusted resource for their members, as some describe themselves as that community of practice. Their members truly care. They want a sense of belonging and they want a place where they can not only progress in their career, but share and give back. And so we do research every year. We call it the state of member [00:03:00] experience, a research report, and we launch it every year at the annual ASAE annual event in August. And for the last five years, the prevailing answer to the question, why do you join and why do you stay, has been. One for the peer-to-peer connections and two for the ongoing learning. And so that is at the core of the member value proposition. Do I belong and can I connect with peers like me? And is this an environment and a place where I can continue to learn and grow? And so those are the key factors that drive engagement and ultimately retention.  Sharon Pare: If learning and community are structured separately, what does that do to the member experience?  Kurt Heikkinen: Yeah, it creates a fractured and siloed experience. When you think about our own experience as consumers, when we're interacting with a company or a product, and the experience is different from the time we bought it to the [00:04:00] time perhaps we're asking for service. It becomes frustrating if they don't know us and they don't demonstrate that they understand who we are and what our needs are from one step to the next. And so having those experiences separate can only lead to frustration, and that's what we hear over and over again. So what's the difference? What's the answer? An experience that is seamless, that's personalized, that's unified, where the member, the learner, feels like you know them throughout every step of the journey.  Sharon Pare: So are you saying that one of the shifts that you're seeing is mostly generational in how they're learning now?  Kurt Heikkinen: I think by far one of the shifts is the expectations of early career members. You think about the expectations of early career members, the concept of membership is even foreign to them. They've grown up in an on demand consumption, subscription based world. That's their world. Whether that's in academia or whether that's from an entertainment standpoint. [00:05:00] You cited Netflix earlier, so that is one of the major shifts. But for all of us, regardless of what generation you're in, where you are in your career. The last 10 years has informed our own expectations regarding experience and what does a modern experience look like, and personalization is at the core of that. If we as consumers, let's just separate learning and look more broadly in our everyday life as consumers, if we don't experience something that's fast and easy and relevant where the entity we're interacting with. The service provider or the product company doesn't know us and doesn't demonstrate they know us and understand our needs immediately and guide our experience, we opt out. And that's regardless of age. Anyone who has been using a mobile device for the last several years has experienced that and now knows what good looks like. But furthermore, back to career [00:06:00] stages, we've also studied a lot. What are the attitudes, behaviors, and beliefs of professionals by stage. There are expectations that early career members have. They wanna know immediately, do I belong here? Can I connect with peers like me who have solved and encountered some of the things that I'm. Experiencing early in my career for those individuals mid-career, they wanna know how can they take the next step in their career? How can they climb the ladder? How can they advance in their domain? Um, they might be considering a pivot. And how will this community help them learn and grow vanguard? And many times for those latent career they wanna give back. They wanna share their wisdom and their expertise from the last two or three or four decades, and they want a forum, a learning community to do that. So when learning and community aren't together, when it's fractured and siloed, you miss out on so many opportunities to engage your learners, your professionals, your members that meet them where [00:07:00] they are, and truly tap in the power of community. Sharon Pare: So it sounds like continuity may matter more than isolated moments, and having these two together really matters more. So I think it raises a bigger question about how learning actually works. And you've already mentioned that adults and different generations don't learn in isolated events. It tends to happen over time, conversation in context. Again, as you mentioned, a lot of this education is still structured around single programs. What do you think leaders most often misunderstand about learning value is actually created today?  Kurt Heikkinen: Yeah, it's interesting, Sharon, because we meet with hundreds of clients every year and prospective clients, and I think intuitively they understand. That the learning paradigm has shifted. I think they do understand that it is more social in nature. It needs to be more on demand. Micro learning needs to become a part of this, that individuals don't have the time or energy [00:08:00] and to sit down and take hours of courses by themselves. They are looking for that connectedness, but some of them are struggling to understand how to make that happen or they're. Largely dependent on a couple primary sources of revenue for their organization. A single annual conference, a couple main courses that drive 60 or 70% of their revenue that consumes their time and energy every year. That prevents them from moving beyond and innovating beyond that, and most often and why organizations come to Forj is because the technology they're using is holding them back or experience how today's technology better enables that breakthrough. Better supports that type of more dynamic social cohort based learning through the concept of a learning community as opposed to isolation. And there's still a place. There's still a place of course, for so many of these courses that lead [00:09:

In this episode of Associations NOW Presents, guest host Tom Arend, Jr., Esq., CAE, CEO of the American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons, speaks with Jerry Jacobs, Esq., partner at Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman LLP, about three major issues facing associations today: artificial intelligence, DEI, and misconduct at events. They explore why many organizations are adopting AI cautiously and the importance of guardrails, institutional licenses, and transparency when meetings are recorded or summarized. Jacobs also discusses legal considerations around DEI programs amid increasing scrutiny and evolving interpretations of civil rights law. The conversation concludes with a look at rising concerns around inappropriate behavior at events and why clear policies and enforceable codes of conduct are essential for associations. Check out the video podcast here: https://youtu.be/6YBt9suvV2U   Associations NOW Presents is produced by Association Briefings.   Transcript Tom Arend, Jr., Esq., CAE: [00:00:00] Welcome to this month's episode of Associations NOW Presents, an original podcast series from the American Society of Association Executives. I'm Tom Arend, CEO of the American Academy of Orthopedic Surgeons. Prior to serving as CEO, I was also general counsel of a large association. And prior to that, I served as a practitioner in the association law space in Washington DC. Joining us today, we're excited to welcome Jerry Jacobs. Jerry is a partner at the firm of Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pitman, LLP. Jerry has for decades been recognized as the dean of the association law world, both in Washington and across the country. He is a frequent commentator, author, contributor, and speaker on association law topics, and recently came out with the seventh edition of the Bible of association law, the Association Law Handbook. Welcome Jerry.  Jerry Jacobs, Esq.: Hi, Tom.  Tom Arend, Jr., Esq., CAE: So there's a lot going on in the [00:01:00] world right now, but we're gonna try and focus primarily on three topics. First topic has to do with the use of artificial intelligence in associations and by associations. Then we'll move on to the impact of diversity, equity, inclusion in associations, and particularly the recent changes in the federal law and the sort of broader federal posture with respect to the use of diversity, equity, inclusion in governance and decision making by associations. Finally we’ll turn to another topic that causes a lot of angst among association executives, which is bad behavior among staff, among members, and among others in the association space, and how associations can most effectively deal with those situations. So in the area of artificial intelligence, actually, particularly today, here we are. In the third week in February, 2026, and we're [00:02:00] reading today, yesterday, over the weekend, doom and gloom scenarios around the use of AI from a number of consulting firm newsletters and other experts in the field, and AI is clearly becoming a very complex, difficult issue for everyone to deal with. How in particular do you see artificial intelligence impacting associations, Jerry? Jerry Jacobs, Esq.: It's gonna affect us all sooner than later, from everything that I can understand. Last year we had a role in the transition of what's arguably the leading AI company in the United States and the world Open AI from its historic founding as a public charity to more emphasis on a taxable business corporation. And I had a chance to look on the inside of the workings of a large AI company. And what I learned is that it's being utilized with new creativity and new efficiency in different ways by different [00:03:00] users. The association community, almost by definition, is a person-to-person field. There's advocacy, which is often one-on-one. There's professional education that's often very personalized. There are communications networking that's always personal, and so I'm wondering whether AI is moving more slowly into the association community than elsewhere because of the personalization required to be successful in association management. But we're seeing association clients use it effectively for preparing content, for communications, for summarizing meeting discourse, for cleaning or mining long lists of members, prospects, vendors, et cetera. And we've seen some. Fairly creative, but so far very limited uses by comparison as lawyers in the [00:04:00] law firm community, we're going headlong in use of ai and I'm not seeing that as often among associations.  Tom Arend, Jr., Esq., CAE: Yeah, I would agree with that. What I've seen both personally within the association that I work for and some of my other colleagues experiences in the last, I would say three to four years, is a, a slightly slower adoption than in some other spaces in the commercial area. But I do see that accelerating significantly, and I see both use cases internal to operations and management of an association, almost similar to any other large organization and then external use cases. And maybe we can talk about those. I think in both cases, it's important at the beginning to set some guardrails, to set some policies and procedures, some very clear expectations about how it's going to be used by your internal staff. For example, in our case, initially, I recall we had different groups [00:05:00] using different platforms. We'd have one, the marketing group, for example, maybe using anthropic, and you'd have the finance folks using ChatGPT, and you'd have the comms people using something else. And we ultimately got to a space where we said, hey, we've got to figure out, first of all, a uniform tool that we're all gonna use, that we all can become conversant on. And then importantly, we'll all have a corporate license for and we can use appropriately. And that ideally will help us better integrate what we're doing across the organization in ai. And is that, what are some of your thoughts on setting up those appropriate?  Jerry Jacobs, Esq.: That actually makes sense. You're providing computers and in many cases, ipads and phones to employees. So you have every right to restrict what apps and software are used on those machines. And many organizations are picking one or two buying institutional licenses, which will sometimes allow confidentiality of use of these tools, which is a, [00:06:00] a big advantage. And yes, everybody is struggling with “What are our policies going to be?” A continuing question is what about members who wanna use AI to summarize meetings they attend? Yeah. Whether governance meetings or educational content meetings. I would think that in our experience so far, we see more associations come down on the side of denying and forbidding politely and diplomatically use of meeting summary AI tools by attendees simply. Because it's better to have one official record of what happened, especially at governance meetings. But I really appreciate that the exigency of membership relations, you may not be able to hold out. The members may just demand it. And I have seen some pretty darn good summaries of meetings produced by these programs. Tom Arend, Jr., Esq., CAE: Yeah, that's an interesting case. And that's exactly a case [00:07:00] that you can compare to. This is the new technology we have. In some ways, the outcome of that technology is not a lot different in kind than the outcome. Twenty years ago we said, oh, can we record this meeting? Can we do an audio recording of this meeting? And for the reasons you articulated well, we don't necessarily wanna have, we don't wanna killl the debate among board members or committees or what have you, by them thinking, oh, some somebody's gonna look at, listen to this in three weeks or three months, and maybe I misspoke and I didn't correct it. And to your point, we want the minutes to be the official record. And so that, my recollection is the universal recommendation would be no, you shouldn't record meetings as a general rule now. I agree with you and just I see the progression that we've taken and some of my other colleagues and other associations, almost every call I'm on it. We just automatically record it. And the governance people, the staff people use that summary to then [00:08:00] create their own summary and then a set of minutes and it's just become so easy, not error free, to your point, it's always critical to review, have a human. Review everything, but it's hard to stand in the way of that progress from a governance entity. Jerry Jacobs, Esq.: That's absolutely correct. And one final point, if we're gonna move on to another subject, we can't remind users often enough that right now AI's programs all hallucinate, they all make up. And, and so to develop something based just on AI and send it out to the members and find that a key fact or even an insignificant fact is just incorrect, will embarrass the association. And so you've got to check the facts, although we are always surprised with the ability of AI programs to come up with things that we hadn't thought of or data points that we didn't know existed. But very often, not every once in a while, very often they make them [00:09:00] up and so you have to be sure and double check them all. Tom Arend, Jr., Esq., CAE: Yeah. Jerry, what about to this point? Everyone's on a Zoom meeting now, even when you are in person infrequently now, andwe all know it's being recorded by AI and will be used later. This notion of transparency around when we're using AI and then disclaimers to that effect.  Jerry Jacobs, Esq.: I think certainly when it's happening at a meeting, the attendees have a right to know that someone is recording what they're saying or proposing or objecting to. So by all means, I think just membership relations again dictates transparency and openness, even to the point, does anybody object if we use this program in order to record and summarize this event

In this episode of Associations NOW Presents, guest host Dave Will, co-founder and CEO of PropFuel and host of Association Strong, is joined by Jason Oxman, president and CEO of the Information Technology Industry Council, and Amith Nagarajan, AAiP, chairman of Blue Cypress and co-founder of Sidecar, to examine the growing importance of AI certification for association leaders. They explore how AI is rapidly moving from experimentation into everyday workflows and why the real risk is not job loss to AI, but falling behind peers who know how to use it effectively. Amith discusses the challenge associations face in keeping pace with AI’s accelerating evolution, while Jason shares ITI’s practical, bottom-up approach to adoption, starting with small use cases such as meeting summaries, email drafting, and research, supported by clear acceptable-use policies and disclosures. The conversation also highlights how AI can strengthen member engagement through personalization, support board and staff education, and enable associations to develop new products and services for their industries. Check out the video podcast here: https://youtu.be/Xf3G-LmxEAM   Associations NOW Presents is produced by Association Briefings.   Transcript Dave Will: [00:00:00] Welcome to this month's episode of Associations NOW Presents, an original podcast series from the American Society of Association Executives. I'm Dave Will, co-founder and CEO of Prop Fuel, as well as the host of the Association Strong podcast. If you're listening to this, you'll love the Association Strong podcast. You can find that at associationstrong.com. Today topic's all about AI certification and whether or not it's a valuable program for association executives. Spoiler, it is. So to dig into this a little further with me, I wanna welcome Jason Oxman, president and CEO of the Information Technology Industry Council (ITI), and Amith Nagarajan, chairman of Blue Cypress, and the co-founder of Sidecar. Jason, welcome.  Jason Oxman: Thanks, Dave. Great to be with you. Thanks for having me on.  Dave Will: Of course. And Jason, I just learned you are the host of the Download on Tech podcast as well, right?  Jason Oxman: That is absolutely [00:01:00] right. We focus on public policy related to AI, so a little different than our conversation today, but a great opportunity here. Conversations about advancements in tech.  Dave Will: Who doesn't wanna hear more from government officials and Amith you. That was demeaning. I'm very sorry, Jason. I'm sure it's riveting. Talking to the government officials. Amith, welcome to this podcast. So Amith, you have the Sidecar Sync Podcast.  Amith Nagarajan: I do. It's a weekly podcast at the intersection of all things associations and artificial intelligence. We love doing it and the association community seems to enjoy it.  Dave Will: So while we're on Sidecar, Amit, gimme 15 seconds on what Sidecar is all about.  Amith Nagarajan: Sidecar is on a mission to educate the association world on ai. It's very simple. We think that the catalyst to driving transformative change in associations is all about education. If we can educate 1 million or more people by the end of the decade, which is our mission at sidecar, [00:02:00] specifically in the association market, we think we're gonna make a big difference. So our goal is to move the needle considerably on AI adoption, but AI adoption in the pursuit of driving transformational change.  Dave Will: Was Sidecar originated with that intent or was, did Sidecar more or less embrace AI as it came to the forefront?  Amith Nagarajan: Sidecar has been around about 10 years. It has not always been exclusively focused on AI, although AI has actually always been on the agenda for sidecar as a major item. Up until about four years ago, we had a number of other things we covered, but we decided about 2020 1 22 that we were gonna go all in on AI and do nothing. Other than ai. So that's the shift we made. But the broader theme of sidecar is how do we help associations through change, through significant change, of course. And right now, AI is the biggest driver of that. That may not always be true. And sidecars commitment is to be here for this community. Regardless of what the changing forces are at the moment, it really is about ai. [00:03:00]  Dave Will: And Jason, before we dig into the AI talk too much, gimme 15 seconds on ITI. Why does ITI exist? Jason Oxman: We are the oldest and largest trade association of the technology industry. We're founded in 1916 and we represent 80 of the world's largest technology companies, policy development, advocacy around the world, the regulatory and legislative environment obviously impacts the ability of the tech industry to offer innovative services to their customers. And so the team at ITI, 60 people strong, spends all day every day advocating for public policy that helps advance innovation. Our member companies are all companies you would've heard of ranging from semiconductor manufacturers, data center operators, components manufacturers, big tech companies to the companies advertising in the Super Bowl against each other, the whole tech stack, if you will. Dave Will: Yeah. Those are entertaining. Uh, the philanthropic and going after, was it Chat GPT, philanthropic going after Chat [00:04:00] GPT for the advertising? Yeah. We could have a whole podcast on advertising and AI. That'd be interesting to talk about. All right. Let's get into the topic, Jason. I've heard that 2026 is the year that AI becomes a productive tool for organizations. I think what that means is AI has moved from this experimental phase where we're playing with it to making it more deeply ingrained in our operations. And so why the shift? What do you think changed in people's perspective of AI in the last year?  Jason Oxman: I think what's interesting is AI is a technology tool, and I wanna oversimplify it. It's software that does a lot of things very well, but it is still a technology tool. So every time we have technology innovation, we have questions about what it means for jobs and the dialogue around AI as a tool. Up until this year has been, I think, a positive and one perhaps driven by [00:05:00] curiosity, what is this gonna mean for my ability to do my job? And that quickly became, what is this gonna mean for my job? And so if you look back over time, it's interesting to think about. MIT did a study on this last year. 60% of the jobs that people have today did not exist in 1940. Certainly a podcaster is a job that didn't exist in 1940, but overall, 60% of the jobs. Out there in the country right now did not exist just a few decades ago, and that's because of changes in technology and we all have to adapt to that. I think our conversation today is important because it's a reminder that. My job might not be taken by ai, but it might be taken by somebody who knows how to use ai. So I think it's more important to figure out how to use the tools to make yourself more marketable as an employee to make your organization more efficient and more effective than it is to view AI as something that's gonna cause. Such disruption that it eliminates jobs entirely. That's why this certification [00:06:00] conversation we're having, this education conversation we're having, particularly for the association community, is so incredibly important. Dave Will: Did you say when you were introducing ITI, did you say it was 1960?  Jason Oxman: 1916. So we're 110 years old. Our founding members were companies that made business equipment, so IBM, which used to be called the Computing Tabulating Recording Company, founded us in 1916. Back then, they made punch clocks and scales and adding machines. NCR. Still with us today, one of our founding members made cash registers. So we used to be called the Association of Business Appliance Manufacturers. And I like the fact that you like old technology too.  Dave Will: So I just pointed, if you're listening to this, I just pointed at an NCR cash register that's behind me. I'm very proud of that. Actually, my grandmother was an entrepreneur. She owned a health food shop. When her husband died, she opened a health food shop and she had an NCR and I used to love playing with that. So she gifted it to me when she closed the shop and retired that [00:07:00] 1916. So I think back and at Thanksgiving and the holidays, I have conversations with my father-in-law who was a. A developer back in the sixties and a developer back in the sixties used punch cards and yeah, it's just fascinating to think about the progress and the change. And so I take it based on what you're saying, you're not too worried about job replacement. Is that a fair summary?  Jason Oxman: That's a fair summary. I'm not worried about job replacement. I'm worried about people not recognizing that jobs are changing.  Dave Will: Changing.  Jason Oxman: Yep. And the tools that they need to be familiar with in order to adapt are very important to learn.  Dave Will: Yeah. Amith you've been working in the association space for 25, 30 years.  Amith Nagarajan: Yeah, it's been a while. Jason Oxman: Yeah. And the association space is about, people are called associations because we bring people together to associate with one another. There was this idea that [00:08:00] Zoom, which we're on right now, which is a great platform, and one of our member companies was gonna kill trade shows because people didn't need to travel anymore. But there is no replacement for the in-person contact with one another. The handshake, the eye contact, the conversation. That's why trade shows continue to thrive, and the association community continues to. To thrive. AI is going to make it easier for us to develop content, to make use of that content, to bring people together, to research, to market all of the things that associations need to do. But it's not g