Advertise on podcast: The Convocation Unscripted

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This week, Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth’s used a newly invented “State of the Force” speech to announcement that he was establishing a new Office of Religious Affairs inside of DOD that would “oversee research, technology, and analytical tools to support and assess spiritual fitness, spiritual readiness, and spiritual resilience’ of soldiers.” TCU team unpacks on this disturbing development by the man who has platformed his mentor and Christian nationalist pastor Doug Wilson at Pentagon events. We also noted that the new office would be overseen by a senior official who would report directly to Hegseth and have direct control over the military chaplaincy program. The order also mentioned funding Christian homeschooling programs for military families, and quoted Bible versese to justify its existence. We also reflect on the upcoming funeral for Pierre Damas Bel, a Haitian college student from Springfield, Ohio, who, his family says, died by suicide weeks after ICE outfitted him with an ankle monitor, noting that he would still likely be alive today were it not for our government’s intentionally cruel and inhumane immigration policies and tactics. we wrap with a shout out to a new PRRI study showing that the opponents of Christian nationalism outnumber its supporters by two to one.

Amid the continued visible destruction of symbolic institutions, the Convocation Unscripted team asks, “Where are the conservative patriots?” You know, those who have so loudly professed a commitment to CONSERVING not only things like our most beloved public spaces like the Kennedy Center and the White House but cherished values like public service, ethics, and respect for the rule of law. There are signs that the facade is cracking—with Karl Rove stating he’s voting for a Democrat in Texas and Rep. Thomas Massie introducing articles of impeachment against Pete Hegseth—but these remain lone voices shouted down by their fellow Republicans. We express some hope that more former Trump supporters will realize the danger in which they’ve put the country and Christianity and then change course; and we note the importance of welcoming them back into the democratic fold when they do. And we close with a reflection on a community based on covenant and care rather than self-serving transactions. Follow on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.b... https://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky... https://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerb... https://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones... Follow on Substack: The Convocation- convocation.substack.com Robert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.net Diana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.com Kristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.com Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

Twenty-Five Years Later, the Fear Is Still Running the Country The twin towers fell twenty-five years ago, but the outrage that moment spurred is still shaping life in the U.S. and beyond. Kristin Du Mez, Diana Butler Bass, and Robert P. Jones sit with the anniversary and ask: What became of this country that morning? You’ll hear where each of them was, including Kristin standing in a blood donation line that evening that turned out to be unnecessary, because there were almost no survivors. Then, Robbie brings PRRI’s tracking of American attitudes toward Islam, where the country as a whole has barely moved while the two parties have pulled further and further apart. Diana argues the goodwill drained the moment the president stood on the rubble and chose revenge over imagination. Robbie points to the creation of the Department of Homeland Security. And the fact that the first community ICE went after was Somali refugees who were Black and Muslim. As we often do, we end with small signs of hope. Earlier in the hour you’ll get Wild Goose, book launch season, and the books that changed their lives. If you have wondered how we ended up in the country we are living in, this conversation is a large part of the answer. Listen, then send it to someone who still can’t trace the line from the past to the present. Follow on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.b... https://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky... https://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerb... https://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones... Follow on Substack: The Convocation- convocation.substack.com Robert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.net Diana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.com Kristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.com Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

This week, TCU came to you live across multiple platforms--via the Convocation Unscripted substack plus our own individual substack platforms. In this episode, we talk about a recent interview given by J.D. Vance in which he discusses his views of the Antichrist and th end times, echoing themes from his tech bro benefactor Peter Thiel. The actual theology is internally inconsistent and somewhat incoherent, but it does reveal a disturbing world of limitless power for the few chosen ones who literally image the possibility of escaping human finitude and even death through wealth and technology. By contrast, we talk about deep biblical stories that warn against such hubris and callous disregard for the impacts of such elite aspirations on the vast majority of the rest of us. We also discussed the new books coming out from Robby (BACKSLIDE) and Kristin (LIVE LAUGH LOVE). And we took questions from the hundreds of you who joined us live, on climate change and extreme weather, the midterm elections in the US, and what these times demand for all of us. Follow on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.b... https://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky... https://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerb... https://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones... Follow on Substack: The Convocation- convocation.substack.com Robert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.net Diana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.com Kristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.com Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

In this TCU+LIVE episode, the Convocation Unscripted team talked about the challenges of finding rest amid the ongoing assaults on our democracy and American decency--from the $100 billion spent on the unjust and unnecessary war in Iran to $20 million for new "shock gloves" that will be issued to ICE agents across the country, which are exactly what they sound like. Diana reminded everyone of the power of beauty and poetry, even--and especially--when they feel dissonant against the destructive background noise. Thanks to all the live subscribers who joined us with insightful questions, which lead us to wrap the conversation about the importance of building local community and connections in these critical months ahead of the challenging midterm elections.

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Did you miss Steven Miller’s chilling speech at a recent counter-terrorism conference with European officials in Washington, where he evokes Nazi tropes abt the deformed physical appearance of his political enemies? The Convocation Unscripted team unpacks the dehumanizing rhetoric and the Nazi echoes we’re hearing from Trump and the MAGA movement. This is not new--Kristin and Robby each point to this dangerous rhetoric in their forthcoming books (LIVE LAUGH LOVE and BACKSLIDE)--but this rhetoric is getting louder and becoming more central to MAGA messaging. Miller's speech should be a warning bell. It's time for all of us to get beyond denial, get involved, and project a more inclusive view of the good, the true, and the beautiful that is rooted in an ethic of love rather than demonization. Follow on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.b... https://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky... https://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerb... https://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones... Follow on Substack: The Convocation- convocation.substack.com Robert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.net Diana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.com Kristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.com Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

ICE has killed two more innocent people in our streets. Despite public outcry, ICE continues to kill while wearing masks and not wearing body cams. We cannot be numb to this reality--that our own government is killing people with impunity. If we care about the rule of law, family values, and the integrity of law enforcement, we must recognize these acts as a direct assault on these principles and values. Instead of reassessing these outrages, President Trump has urged ICE on and Tom Homan has promised more bloodshed. We call these out as bright moral lines that have been crossed and emphasize the importance of not normalizing this violent behavior by our own government. We also look ahead to Trump's national address on the integrity of U.S. elections and talk about the head spinning fact that nearly two-thirds of Republicans continue to believe that the 2020 election was stolen from Trump (while simultaneously believing that the 2024 election was fine). We warn that the declaration of an imaginary emergency is the likely action that will set the table for undermining the integrity of the midterm elections. Follow on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.b... https://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky... https://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerb... https://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones... Follow on Substack: The Convocation- convocation.substack.com Robert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.net Diana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.com Kristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.com Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

This week, we reflect on the anticlimactic America250 celebrations in Washington, DC, and around the country. We also talked about the tragic, suspicious death of African American 18-year-old Nolan Xavier Wells, whose body was found after he disappeared during a boat trip with a group of white friends on Horn Island over the Fourth of July weekend, and why so many Black Americans are reacting differently than white Americans to this story. Finally, we talk about the mainstreaming of Doug Wilson, an extremist self-described Christian nationalist who leads a small denomination of churches to which Pete Hegseth belongs. In the past year, he's landed high-profile interviews from CNN, New York Times, and most recently NPR. But his rising influence is mostly due to the failure of mainstream white evangelicalism to defend itself from incursions from the far right. Today, mainstream white evangelical leaders are not only failing to condemn his dangerous, illiberal views, they are inviting him into their circles and joining him on his own platforms. If we needed one more piece of evidence of the complete moral and theological collapse of the white evangelical world, the embrace of Wilson is it. Follow on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.b... https://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky... https://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerb... https://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones... Follow on Substack: The Convocation- convocation.substack.com Robert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.net Diana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.com Kristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.com Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

Independence Day Edition Follow on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.b... https://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky... https://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerb... https://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones... Follow on Substack: The Convocation- convocation.substack.com Robert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.net Diana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.com Kristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.com Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

This week, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld President Trump’s order to remove Temporary Protected Status from hundreds of thousands of Haitian and Syrian immigrants. The lead opinion, written by Justice Alito, declared that Trump’s derogatory language about these groups (“they’re eating the pets”) and their country of origin (“sh*thole countries”) was not “OVERTLY” racist and therefore not a factor in discerning his motivation for the order. Justice Sotomayor, in a blistering dissent, declared that “the references—of filth, disease, and primitiveness—are shot through with racial stereotypes.” Meanwhile, Trump is giving white South African refugees welcome bags with a PragerU children’s book on so-called reverse racism, and a document that defends the country’s founding on slavery. We talk about how these moves violate not only basic moral decency but Christian teaching about treating immigrants with hospitality and respect and, well, just not bearing false witness against your neighbor. We close by reminding listeners of the need to pay attention to the bright lines being crossed and to not cede the flag or patriotism to the Christian nationalists who distort their meaning. Follow on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.b... https://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky... https://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerb... https://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones... Follow on Substack: The Convocation- convocation.substack.com Robert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.net Diana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.com Kristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.com Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

This week, the Convocation Unscripted team talk about the implications of the silencing of women’s voices in the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) and the erasure of women’s voices in the New Testament. On the even of Juneteenth, we also discuss the importance of embracing Juneteenth as our newest federal holiday, and the power of commemorating that holiday alongside Independence Day, which falls just 15 days later. And we wrap by reflecting on the findings of the latest survey, which shows that the loud voices of Christian nationalism only represent about three in ten Americans. Two thirds of our fellow citizens still embrace the ideals of a racially and religiously pluralistic America. Follow on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.b... https://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky... https://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerb... https://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones... Follow on Substack: The Convocation- convocation.substack.com Robert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.net Diana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.com Kristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.com Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

Because it’s the first week of the month, this week’s Convocation Unscripted episode was live. We talked about the latest happenings in the world of religion and politics: the drastic narrowing of officially recognized religions within the Department of Defense, the further politicization of the civil service by the Trump administration, and moral bright lines being crossed that we must continue to see and resist. And we answered your questions for the second half of the show. Hope you’ll tune in if you missed it! It was lively as always. Thanks so much for reading, listening, and supporting our work. Subscribe: Convocation.Substack.com Follow on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.b... https://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky... https://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerb... https://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones... Follow on Substack: The Convocation- convocation.substack.com Robert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.net Diana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.com Kristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.com Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

In this episode, we talk about the broad interdisciplinary research across the humanities and social sciences that has converged to establish the clear threat of Christian nationalism to pluralistic democracy, both here and across Europe. From the headlines, we also discuss the surprising victory by scandal-laden Ken Paxton over Sen. John Cornyn in the Republican primary race in Texas. The coming showdown between Paxton and Democratic nominee James Talarico promises not only to be the most expensive senate campaign in American history but also a clear contest between two visions of religion and the nation: Christian nationalism from Paxton and faith-infused support for pluralistic democracy by Talarico. In this race and so many others, we’ll be sure to see the Christian nationalist tactic of literally demonizing political opponents—a practice that destroys democratic ideals, short circuits moral thinking, and distorts Christian theology. Subscribe: Convocation.Substack.com Follow on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.b... https://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky... https://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerb... https://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones... Follow on Substack: The Convocation- convocation.substack.com Robert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.net Diana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.com Kristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.com Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com Subscribe: Convocation.Substack.com Follow on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.b... https://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky... https://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerb... https://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones... Follow on Substack: The Convocation- convocation.substack.com Robert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.net Diana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.com Kristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.com Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com