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In this episode of The Hardest Part, host Kieron Banerji is joined by Hrishikesh Hirway — musician, composer, and creator of the iconic podcast Song Exploder. Known for helping artists dissect their songs and uncover the stories behind them, Hrishikesh does something rare in this conversation: he breaks down his own song — a track called “Between There and Here,” written in the wake of his mother’s death. It’s a deeply personal piece, one that reflects the quiet complexities of grief, love, and the gaps left by what’s unsaid. Hrishikesh talks about the emotional expectations in his household, how his mother shaped his creative instincts, and the way music became his private outlet for feelings he wasn’t always encouraged to express. We hear about the inspiration and restraint behind “Between There and Here,” his approach to songwriting, and why telling his own story has often been harder than pulling stories out of others. For once, the man behind the questions becomes the subject — and what unfolds is a conversation about grief, identity, legacy, and the music that holds it all together. This special episode also features an exclusive acoustic version of the track, recorded just for the show   Guest: Hrishikesh Hirway of Song Exploder Host: Kieron Banerji Produced by Palm Tree Island Mix Engineer: Max Walker See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What do you do when you have five separate demos and no idea how they fit together? In this episode of The Hardest Part, host Kieron Banerji sits down with NYC psych-pop collective Psymon Spine to unpack the twisting, turbulent process behind their song Wizard Acid. Written remotely during the pandemic and born from five conflicting demos, the track became one of their most ambitious—and hardest to finish. They break down how Wizard Acid evolved piece by piece: from early voice memos and lost choruses to Bowie-inspired edits and haunted house energy. Along the way, they reflect on collaboration, overthinking, and the surprising value of returning to the first idea. Artist: Psymon Spine Song: “Wizard Acid” Album: Head Body Connector Host and Executive Producer: Kieron Banerji Recording Engineers: Max Walker Creative Team: Callum Baker (Photography), Giovanni Almonte (Videography) Recording Studio: The Thin White Duke, London. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode of The Hardest Part, host Kieron Banerji sits down with Elles Bailey to unpack the long, personal, and painful process behind “Ballad of a Broken Dream,” a track that sat in her voice notes for over five years before she could face recording it. Originally written after an emotional phone call, the song felt too raw, too unresolved, to finish. Elles shares how she rewrote it again and again—changing verses, adjusting melodies, pulling back—trying to make it more manageable. But every version felt wrong. We also talk about: How trauma can freeze the creative process When you know a song is too close to touch—but too important to ignore Why voice notes can become emotional time capsules And the challenge of singing something you’re still going through The episode closes with a stripped-back performance of “Ballad of a Broken Dream,” recorded live at The Thin White Duke in Soho, London. Artist: Elles Bailey Song: “Ballad of a Broken Dream” Album: Beneath the Neon Glow Host and Executive Producer: Kieron Banerji Recording Engineers: Max Walker Creative Team: Callum Baker (Photography), Giovanni Almonte (Videography) Recording Studio: The Thin White Duke, London. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode of The Hardest Part, host Kieron Banerji is joined by Adult Jazz to unpack the long and winding process behind “Earth of Worms,” one of the most technically complex and emotionally unruly songs on their album So Sorry So Slow. The song had been in progress for nearly seven years, and at one point, it was too clean—too correct. The band talks openly about how chasing technical polish nearly stripped the track of its emotional weight, and how they had to unlearn their habits in order to start again. The final version was built by embracing instinct, letting the form collapse, and trusting that songwriting didn’t need to be perfect to be meaningful. We talk about: Why they scrapped the original version after years of demos How harmony, rhythm, and “bad piano playing” helped reanimate the track What it means to write a song that’s falling apart by design How process panic, musical overthinking, and care can sometimes clash And why “Earth of Worms” had to be messy to make sense The episode ends with an exclusive stripped-back live performance of “Earth of Worms.” Artist: Adult Jazz Song: “Earth of Worms” Album: So Sorry So Slow Host and Executive Producer: Kieron Banerji Recording Engineers: Max Walker & Chris Goldsmith Creative Team: Callum Baker (Photography), Giovanni Almonte (Videography) Recording Location: Thin White Duke Studios, London. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode of The Hardest Part, host Kieron Banerji sits down with Deep Sea Diver at Third Man Records in Soho to unpack the complicated road behind their track “Shovel.” It started out as the easiest song they’d ever written—and nearly became the one that didn’t make the record at all. The band explains how the song went through multiple versions, two cities, and nearly three scrapped attempts. They talk about trying to hold together wildly different ideas—from Nick Cave-inspired spoken word sections to a Kate Bush–style pop outro—and the challenge of making something cohesive out of sounds that didn’t seem to belong in the same world. We also talk about: The feeling of getting sick from your own song Creative burnout caused by high expectations How co-producer Andy Park helped salvage the track by remixing old material the band had abandoned Why some songs only work when you finally let go And in one of the episode’s most revealing moments, Jessica Dobson explains how a random writing exercise—based on the word “shovel”—led to some of the most vulnerable lyrics on the record, confronting her inner critic in a voice that was both joyful and aggressive. The result is a song that’s part destruction, part self-preservation. The episode closes with a stripped-back live performance of “Shovel,” recorded at Third Man Records in London. Artist: Deep Sea Diver Song: “Shovel” Album: Billboard Heart Host and Executive Producer: Kieron Banerji Engineers: Max Walker (Mix) and Grant Frampton (Recording) Creative Team: Callum Baker Recording Location: Third Man Records, London See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode of The Hardest Part, host Kieron Banerji sits down with Sophie Jamieson to explore the writing of “How Do You Want to Be Loved?”, a delicate and emotionally loaded song from her album I Still Want To Share. Unlike many of her songs, this one had a clear emotional target from the start — written for someone close to her, while navigating a mix of love, frustration, and grief. It wasn’t just a songwriting challenge. It was a personal risk: how do you tell the truth when the person it’s about might hear it? Sophie talks about the careful balance of being honest without being hurtful, and how that shaped every line — especially when deciding how much anger to let through. She also reflects on the power of the outro, a section she says redefined the entire track and gave meaning to the rest of the album.  We also talk about: Writing a song mid-album and knowing it had to be included When songwriting becomes emotional processing How to finish a song when the person it’s about still matters to you Why outros are where the truth often lands The episode ends with an intimate live performance of “How Do You Want to Be Loved?”, recorded exclusively for The Hardest Part. Artist: Sophie Jamieson Song: “How Do You Want to Be Loved?” Album: I Still Want To Share   Host and Executive Producer: Kieron Banerji Mix Engineer: Max Walker Recording Engineer: Chris Goldsmith Creative Team: Callum Baker (Photography), Giovanni Almonte (Videography) Recording Studio: Thin White Duke Studios, London See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode of The Hardest Part, host Kieron Banerji is joined by Anna B Savage to unpack the long and winding process behind “Donegal,” a standout from her album You and i are Earth. Anna reflects on her changing relationship to songwriting—from the painstaking process behind her early work to a more forgiving, open approach that still carries its own challenges. “Donegal” took over two years to finish, shaped by periods of creative block, ongoing emotional reckoning, and the pressure of articulating a feeling that hadn’t fully settled. She talks through the tension of trying to write honestly about home, identity, and colonial history as an English person living in Ireland—and the discomfort that came with confronting what she hadn’t learned about her own past. The song explores the idea of home as both place and feeling, and how complicated that can become when personal desires meet historical realities. Anna also shares how shifting the instrumentation—moving between guitar and piano—helped unlock parts of the track, and why rhythm was key to expressing its emotional core. We discuss how songwriting can capture a moment in time before you fully understand it, and why you don’t need clarity to be honest. The episode ends with a stripped-back performance of “Donegal,” recorded live at Thin White Duke Studios in London. Artist: Anna B Savage Song: “Donegal” Album: You and i are Earth Host and Executive Producer: Kieron Banerji Recording and MixEngineers : Chris Goldsmith & Max Walker Creative: Callum Baker Recording Location: Thin White Duke Studios, London See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode of The Hardest Part, host Kieron Banerji is joined by London band Famous to unpack the writing of “Leaving Tottenham,” a climactic and emotionally charged track from their debut album Party Album. The band’s frontman opens up about the long and often painful process behind the song—one that wrestled with personal embarrassment, grand ambition, and the frustration of trying to make private feelings mean something beyond the self. “Leaving Tottenham” started as a raw reaction to seeing an ex and evolved into something much harder to finish: a song that tries to hold both heartbreak and philosophy in the same space. He reflects on the danger of writing confessional music that feels self-absorbed, and how he tried to reconcile that with a deeper desire for meaning and universality—without falling into false grandiosity. We talk through the song’s two strands of writing, the line he calls the hardest he’s ever had to finish, and the influence of theology, Turner’s painting The Angel Standing in the Sun, and the idea that “real life starts outside of time.” The episode ends with a stripped-back live performance of “Leaving Tottenham,” highlighting the delivery and nuance behind a song that—flawed or not—was written to matter. Since recording this episode, Famous have announced they’ll be taking a farewell (for now), with their final show happening at London’s ICA on October 2nd. They'll also be releasing two final songs. This conversation—and the stripped-back performance—feels like a quiet full stop to a band that always reached for something bigger than the moment. Artist: Famous Song: “Leaving Tottenham” Album: Party Album Host and Executive Producer: Kieron Banerji Recording Engineer: Max Walker Creative: Callum Baker Recording Location: Thin White Duke Studios, London See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode of The Hardest Part, host Kieron Banerji sits down with Devi Mambouka, the artist and music producer who performs as Masma Dream World, to explore the deeply spiritual and emotionally raw process behind the making of her art. Unlike traditional songwriting, Devi's process is entirely intuitive—a sonic ritual guided by the goddess Kali, whose presence she channels through daily meditation, field recordings, and unplanned studio improvisation. She describes the act not as writing, but as receiving: “I just do what she asks me to do.” Alongside longtime collaborator and engineer Chris Weiss, she crafts in real time—often without speaking—communicating through a shared, cultivated intuition. Devi shares how the trust between them allows her to stay fully immersed in the ritual while Chris captures and translates the message into form. But the hardest part didn’t happen in the studio. Devi opens up about the spiritual crisis that led her to the brink of suicide—and the moment of divine intervention that brought her back. What began as an attempt to make a dub record became a vessel for transformation—guided by light, grief, and the persistence of the spirit. Artist: Masma Dream World (Devi Mambouka) Host and Executive Producer: Kieron Banerji Recording Engineer: Max Walker Creative: Callum Baker Recording Location: Thin White Duke Studios, London See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode of The Hardest Part, host Kieron Banerji is joined by Australian group Folk Bitch Trio to reflect on the long, messy road to finishing “Sarah,” a song that was nearly cut from their debut album Now Would Be a Good Time. What began as a heartbreak-fueled acoustic track quickly became the most difficult song to finish—emotionally, technically, and collaboratively. Written in isolation, reworked through voice memos, and road-tested live, “Sarah” was put to bed more than once, only to be revived through a mix of persistence, instinct, and radical feedback. The trio open up about their internal songwriting process—how the safest space for vulnerability is also where the most brutal honesty lives. They talk about the difference between writing for yourself and writing for a band, how cringe can become clarity, and why trusting each other enough to say “that’s not your best work” might be the only way forward. The episode ends with a live version of “Sarah.” Artist: Folk Bitch TrioSong: “Sarah”Album: Now Would Be a Good Time Host and Executive Producer: Kieron Banerji  Recording Engineer: Chris GoldsmithMix Engineer: Max WalkerCreative Team: Callum Baker & Giovanni AlmonteRecording Location: Thin White Duke Studios, London See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode of The Hardest Part, host Kieron Banerji is joined by Bria Salmena to unpack the winding creative journey behind “Closer to You,” a standout track from her debut solo album Big Dog. Written across two cities—Bria in Los Angeles, Duncan Hay Jennings in Toronto—the song came to life through long-distance collaboration and relentless back-and-forth. What started as an acoustic skeleton became a hybrid of organic and electronic textures, reshaped again and again as Bria searched for the right emotional tone. But the hardest part? Landing the chorus. Or even deciding if it was a chorus. Bria reflects on the frustration of not finding that “aha” moment and how letting go of control, embracing creative blocks, and learning to trust the process ultimately allowed the song to take its final form. She also shares how the lyric “move me closer to you” evolved from a call toward someone else into a deeper pull inward—and how working with Meg Remy on vocal production helped her reconnect to the emotional core of her writing.The episode closes with a stripped-back live session. Artist: Bria SalmenaSong: “Closer to You”Album: Big Dog Host and Executive Producer: Kieron Banerji Recording Engineer: Chris GoldsmithMix Engineer: Max WalkerCreative: Callum BakerRecording Location: Thin White Duke Studios, London See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode of The Hardest Part, host Kieron Banerji is joined by singer, songwriter, and producer Jack Garratt for a deeply introspective conversation about his track “Mara” from the album Love, Death & Dancing. Jack opens up about the emotional and psychological weight that followed his debut album, and how “Mara” became a turning point—a song that helped unlock not just the record, but a new understanding of himself. Written during a time of quiet struggle and self-doubt, “Mara” began as a simple, meditative walk from his kitchen to his garden studio, but unfolded into a profound confrontation with internal voices and anxiety. Inspired by a Buddhist parable, the song personifies “Mara” as the spirit of self-sabotage and fear—one Jack learns to meet not with resistance, but with compassion. He takes us deep into his writing and production process, describing how a dusty Moog synth, a groove borrowed from Motown, and his own evolving relationship with procrastination shaped the final version. The episode closes with an exclusive live performance. Jack's new album 'Pillars' is out August 15th on Cooking Vinyl Artist: Jack GarrattSong: “Mara”Album: Love, Death & Dancing Host and Executive Producer: Kieron Banerji Engineers: Max Walker & Chris GoldsmithCreative Team: Callum Baker, Giovanni AlmonteRecording Location: Thin White Duke Studios, London See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode of The Hardest Part, host Kieron Banerji sits down backstage at The Barbican with Casper Clausen of Danish band Efterklang to dive into the quiet evolution of their track “Getting Reminders,” from the album Things We Have In Common. Unlike their typical in-the-box production style, “Getting Reminders” grew slowly and organically — first as a sketch on Casper’s mother’s old guitar in his Lisbon studio, then as a living, breathing piece shaped by years of live performance. The song blends simplicity with deep emotional nuance, capturing a tension between the natural world and human control, between personal surrender and global disintegration. Casper opens up about the instrument’s worn character, the river outside his window that served as a kind of spiritual metronome, and how songwriting became a feedback loop of intuition and revision. He also reflects on the magic of collaboration, including how Beirut’s Zach Condon brought trumpet arrangements that transformed the track’s DNA. Listeners will hear an exclusive live session of “Getting Reminders,” offering a rare glimpse into the raw, evolving version of a song that has taken on new shape each time it’s played. Artist: Efterklang Song: “Getting Reminders” Album: Things We Have In Common Host and Executive Producer: Kieron Banerji Recording and Mix Engineer: Max Walker Creative Team: Callum Baker & Giovanni Almonte Recording Location: The Barbican & Thin White Duke Studios, London See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode of The Hardest Part, host Kieron Banerji is joined by Ashaine White to explore the emotional and creative depths of her song “Hotel.” Ashaine opens up about how the track was sparked by a phrase she often heard growing up: “You treat this house like a hotel.” At the time, it felt like a criticism — one that stirred up rebellion, anxiety, and a desire for independence. But as she matured and moved into her own space, the phrase took on new meaning, revealing the unspoken fears and sacrifices of her single mother raising daughters in a complicated world. In a deeply reflective conversation, Ashaine walks us through the dual perspectives woven into “Hotel”: her teenage self seeking freedom, and her adult self understanding the protective love behind her mother’s words. She shares how a simple change — swapping “you” for “Ash” in the lyrics — unlocked the emotional clarity she needed to write the song honestly and with empathy. The episode concludes with an intimate acoustic performance of “Hotel,” showcasing Ashaine’s raw vocal delivery and dynamic guitar work. This stripped-back version invites listeners to hear the emotional layers embedded in the song — a diary entry in sound, balancing defiance with understanding. Artist: Ashaine White Song: “Hotel” Host and Executive Producer: Kieron Banerji Recording Engineer & Mix: Max Walker Creative Team: Callum Baker (Photography), Giovanni Almonte (Videography) Recording Studio: The Thin White Duke, London See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode of The Hardest Part, host Kieron Banerji is joined in the studio by Matt Thomson of The Amazons to unpack the creative journey behind two defining songs: “Black Magic” and “Joe Bought a Gun.” Matt reflects on the early days of writing “Black Magic,” a track that first came together when the band were teenagers. Born from heartbreak and shaped by years of experimenting, the song laid the foundation for the band’s layered and instinct-driven approach to songwriting. He shares how this process—throwing everything onto the page before carefully chiseling it down—has come to define their musical identity. The conversation then turns to “Joe Bought a Gun,” a powerful track from their latest album 21st Century Fiction. Inspired by a friend’s decision to buy a weapon out of fear of societal collapse, the song tackles themes of fear, masculinity, and modern anxiety. Matt opens up about how current cultural tensions have shaped the record’s narrative and why “Joe Bought a Gun” sits at the emotional and conceptual heart of the album. The episode features intimate acoustic performances of both songs, offering a stripped-back look at the band’s evolving sound and emotional depth. Artist: The Amazons Songs: “Black Magic” and “Joe Bought a Gun” Host and Executive Producer: Kieron Banerji Recording Engineer: Chris Goldsmith Mix Engineer: Max Walker Creative Team: Callum Baker and Giovanni Almonte Recording Studio: The Thin White Duke, London See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.