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In this episode of Chess Not Checkers, Keith Riddle and Jordan Tampien sit down with Cal Spoon of Insurance Busters, a public insurance adjuster Keith met through the local fires. If you have ever filed an insurance claim, or ever will, buckle up, because this one will change how you look at the whole system. Cal pulls back the curtain on a profession almost nobody has heard of, and in doing so explains how insurance actually works. He gets into why the policy you signed is really a contract, the "duties after a loss" buried on page 33 that most people never read, and why the adjuster the insurance company sends works for them and not for you. Along the way, he breaks down how premiums get invested, how carriers use data and old software to predict the exact number you will accept, and why so many claims get settled for a fraction of what is actually owed. He also gets practical. Cal walks through what to do if you are in the middle of a claim right now, why you should pause before accepting a goodwill offer, the difference between replacement cost and actual cash value, how matching and "line of sight" tricks work on roof claims, and why a quick lawsuit can actually cost you more than it recovers. Plus, why he shows up to disaster zones with a smoker and feeds the community instead of buying ads. This is part one of a two-part conversation. Learn more about Cal at insurancebusters.net. Show Flow 00:00  Welcome, Cal Spoon of Insurance Busters 01:34  What Is a Public Adjuster? 03:40  Where Modern Insurance Really Started 05:05  Your Premiums Are Invested in a Hedge Fund 08:16  Futures, Forecasts, and What the Carrier Really Knows 12:18  Colossus: The AI That Predicts Your Payout 16:06  Why You Trust the Company That Owes You Money 19:30  It's Not a Policy, It's a Contract 22:40  Goodwill Offers and Buying Your Silence 25:26  Mold, Civil Authority, and the But-For Doctrine 33:00  How to Actually Shop for Insurance 37:46  A1 vs. A2: The $180 Mistake That Costs Six Figures 46:55  What to Do If You're In a Claim Right Now 53:00  Why He Brings a Smoker Instead of Buying Ads 58:55  Why Insurance Busters Litigates Most Claims 01:00:30  The Sworn Proof of Loss and Pricing a Claim 01:03:30  Roofs, Decking, and Why Patches Don't Cut It 01:06:45  Replacement Cost vs. Actual Cash Value 01:08:05  The Float: How Carriers Make Money Holding Yours 01:17:15  Wrap-Up and Where to Find Cal

In this episode of Chess Not Checkers, Keith Riddle and Jordan Tampien sit down with Lance Beck, chief strategy officer at Greater Spokane Incorporated and former president and CEO of the Valley Chamber, for a wide-ranging conversation about the past, present, and future of Spokane. Lance traces his own path from studying servant leadership at Whitworth to low-income housing work to running a chamber of commerce, and how that shaped his belief that the best solutions come from seeing people and places holistically. From there the three of them dig into the forces shaping the region right now: the cost of doing business in Washington, the permitting and building-code hurdles slowing the fire rebuild, the data center debate, and why so much of the public conversation gets stuck fighting at the edges instead of the 40 percent everyone actually agrees on. At its heart, this one is about vision and who carries it. Keith, Jordan, and Lance get into infill and the Garland and North Monroe transformations, the risk a developer takes to build something cool instead of something safe, why leadership has shifted from authority to influence, and how a community rallies behind the people willing to put their name on the line. It is an honest, hopeful look at a mid-size river city with a bigger upside and a smaller mess to clean up than the markets around it. Learn more about Greater Spokane Incorporated at greaterspokane.org. Show Flow 00:00  Welcome, Lance Beck 01:40  A Northsider and a Passion for Leadership 04:10  Learning to See People, Not Just Stats 08:30  Why Business Took the Baton on Public Safety 10:30  Fighting at the Edges vs. the 40 Percent We Agree On 13:00  Homelessness, Visibility, and the Crime Question 15:25  Accountability and the Joint City-County Approach 18:50  Doing Business in Washington vs. Idaho 20:20  The Fire Rebuild, Building Codes, and Sales Tax 21:40  Data Centers, Energy, and Learning from Grant County 23:00  Spokane's Lost Edge: Cost of Living 27:30  A Spending Problem, Not a Revenue Problem 30:50  Why the Jail Became a Processing Center 33:40  Systems of Care vs. Working in Silos 35:40  Quick Fixes, Long Problems, and the Anti-Parking Fight 38:25  Garland, North Monroe, and Earning the Infill 46:30  Why Build Something Cool Instead of Something Safe 50:00  Who Are Spokane's Visionaries Now? 54:45  Leadership Shifting from Authority to Influence 57:30  Supporting a Culture That Rewards Taking the Risk 01:03:30  What Walt Worthy Means to This Community 01:05:00  Vision Makes the Criticism Easier to Take 01:09:12  What's Actually an Advantage About Spokane 01:12:10  The Downtown Paradox and Commercial Vacancy 01:15:46  Four "What If" Statements for the Region 01:18:45  Ownership, Action, and Casting the Vision 01:20:12  How to Get Involved with GSI

In this episode of Chess Not Checkers, Keith Riddle and Jordan Tampien sit down with Luc Jasmin to talk community, policy, and the challenges shaping Spokane today. Luc shares his journey from Boston to becoming a first-generation Haitian American leader in the Pacific Northwest, and how he got into politics through early childhood education advocacy.They dive into the realities of housing, workforce, and regional development, and how creative, collaborative solutions can make a real difference. Luc also shares how government can better meet community needs and the power of building consensus to drive change.If you care about Spokane, policy, or just want to hear a thoughtful conversation about improving communities, this episode is for you.

In this episode of Chess Not Checkers, Keith Riddle and Jordan Tampien sit down with Cody Arguelles, founder of the Late Arrival Club, a private members' lounge in downtown Spokane, and a man with one of the more unexpected paths to entrepreneurship you will hear. Cody starts with the club itself, a whiskey-and-cigar community he built with a group of fellow veterans, where the only real requirement is being the kind of person who can disagree, shake hands, and still grab a beer. From there, he shares his story of becoming an Air Force SERE specialist, the strange post-military pitch that pulled him toward business, and how he eventually landed on building a place of his own. The conversation gets into his run for Spokane City Council, why he runs as an independent, and his blunt take on how far the political parties have drifted from each other. Keith, Jordan, and Cody dig into what happens when people who have never built or stewarded anything end up making the rules. Whether you are a veteran, an entrepreneur, or someone who just wants to build something real in your own city, this is a candid, story-rich conversation about service, self-reliance, and getting to yes.  Learn more about The Late Arrival Club and how to join at latearrivalclub.com. Show Flow 00:00  Welcome, Cody Arguelles of the Late Arrival Club 03:30  What the Late Arrival Club Really Is 10:30  Reading People and Who You Let In 13:50  Signing Up Blind: Choosing the SERE Path 17:14  What He Misses Most About the Military 23:55  Manipulation Training and How People Break 30:49  Local Politics Is Local: Why He Ran 34:23  Being Conservative, Running Independent 41:30  How He Out-Raised the Career Politicians 44:59  Where Government Makes Problems Worse 55:22  Who Should Be Making the Rules 1:05:40  A Magic Wand: Spokane in Five Years 1:15:46  Burned-Out Developers and Betting on the City 1:22:43  The Fight to Smoke in His Own Private Lounge 1:26:04  Wrap-Up

In this episode of Chess Not Checkers, Keith Riddle and Jordan Tampien sit down with Devin Mecham, designated broker of NAI Black, for an insider's look at commercial real estate and where Spokane goes from here. Devin shares how he got into the business, and the guys dig into the market from a commercial lens: why the office sector has taken such a hit, how downtown and public safety factor in, and whether office can ever be a strategic investment again. They also look ahead to the building boom they expect as the region rebuilds after the fires, and who is actually positioned to win that work. From there the conversation turns to the bigger forces shaping the city: the permitting headaches and Growth Management restrictions that stall good projects, the opportunity and the questions around data center development, and the hard truth that everyone says they love Spokane while pulling it in very different directions. Jordan even gets candid about rethinking how he wants to play real estate going forward, and why he is leaning more commercial. Whether you are an investor, a developer, or just someone who cares about where Spokane is headed, this is a candid, in-the-weeds conversation about real estate, civic vision, and playing the long game. Learn more about Devin at NAI Black. Chapters: 00:00 Welcome, Devin Mecham of NAI Black 03:24 How Devin Got Into Real Estate 07:00 Missing Bedtime: The Numbers and the Why 10:24 Reading a Commercial Deal (Without the Jargon) 13:47 The Coming Rebuild Boom and Who Wins It 17:25 Why the Office Sector Fell 20:48 Buying Office: Cap Rates and Staying Power 24:10 Tenant Improvements, Leases, and the Real Math 27:32 Growth, Permitting, and the GMA Problem 34:16 Property Taxes and Getting Stonewalled 40:56 Data Centers: Opportunity and Questions 44:28 Loving Spokane, Disagreeing on the Vision 51:31 When the Rules Change Out From Under You 54:56 Buy Well, Never Sell: Lessons and Case Studies 61:45 74 Projects In: Rethinking How to Play It 65:08 Partnerships and Final Thoughts

We're revisiting one of our favorite conversations. Keith Riddle and Jordan Tampien sit down with Brynn MacLennan, CEO and co-founder of Slate, the company reinventing something almost nobody enjoys: flossing. Brynn walks through the whole arc, from the first spark of the idea in 2019 to launching an electric flosser in 2022, and everything that came with scaling a physical product through a pandemic. She's honest about what it actually takes: the innovation, the leadership calls, the team culture you have to build, and the curveballs you never see coming. Whether you're chasing a business idea of your own or you just dread flossing, there's something in this one for you. That's what makes it worth a second listen. Learn more at slateflosser.com Show Flow 00:00 Welcome, Brynn MacLennan of Slate 03:14 A Dentist, a Problem, and the Idea for Slate 06:37 What It Really Takes to Make a Physical Product 09:56 Spending $24K to Get Started 13:11 Regrets, Passion, and Loving the Product 16:27 Flossing, Correlation, and Not Wanting to Die 19:41 Grit vs. Stubbornness: Knowing the Difference 23:00 Bringing More Voices Into the Business 26:24 "Every Day I Realize I Know Nothing": Learning as a Leader 32:55 How Slate Actually Gets Made and Shipped 52:24 Leading People Without Losing Yourself 1:02:14 Hiring for Behavior, Not Just Skill 1:08:51 Playing Chess, Not Checkers: Final Thoughts

In this episode of Chess Not Checkers, Keith Riddle and Jordan Tampien pull back the curtain on something they usually only mention in passing: the real mechanics of real estate development. Whether you are an investor, a developer, a would-be flipper, or just trying to make sense of today's housing market, this episode is a candid, numbers-and-all look at how real estate really works, and a reminder that at some point, as Jordan puts it, you have to pick a life instead of just collecting stuff. Show Flow 00:00  Breaking Down a Real Deal for Once 02:39  The Peyton: Seven Stories, 96 Units 07:44  Tax Credits, Lenders, and a Loan That Nearly Fell Apart 12:44  Why a Pro Forma Is Worthless Once You Dig In 20:40  The New Rules: Rates, Holding, and Who Wins 25:48  Where Values Are Actually Falling 28:18  Rebuilding After the Fires vs. Your Insurance Payout 36:13  Spokane's Renovator's Market and the Return on a Flip 46:39  50,000 Older Homes and Why More Flippers Would Help 49:09  Oversized Houses and the Shift in What Buyers Want 56:59  The Hidden Costs of Owning a Home 1:12:42  Sentiment, and Reconnecting 1:22:30  Final Thoughts and Wrap-Up

Li Ciavola is back. After his gripping Denali story last time, Keith Riddle and Jordan Tampien bring the climber back to Chess Not Checkers to get to know the man behind the mountain. This time the conversation is less about the summit and more about everything around it. Li opens up about what happens after you finally reach a goal you chased for a decade, the strange emptiness of the victory, the search for the next driving force, and why so much of life turns out to be about the chase rather than the win. Whether you are chasing a goal, wrestling with what comes after one, or just trying to figure out what enough looks like, this is a thoughtful, wide-ranging conversation about ambition, contentment, and building a life you actually want. Follow Li on Instagram @dingos.domain. Show Flow 00:00  Welcome Back: The Man Behind the Climb 03:00  What's Next: Avalanche Education for Spokane 06:00  "You Gotta Pick a Life" 12:00  Presence, Trade-offs, and Going All In 21:00  Where Frustration Comes From, and the Grass Isn't Greener 27:00  Growth, Trust, and the Flame That Tempers Steel 33:00  Scaling Four Degrees and Hard Lessons 39:00  Life at Sea: Selling Luxury on Cruise Ships 54:00  Dressing the Part and Reading the Room 63:00  College, Italy, and Your Twenties 66:00  Comparison, Status, and Never Enough 78:00  Naming Your Mountain and Staying Consistent 86:30  Final Thoughts and Wrap-Up

We're revisiting one of our favorite conversations. This episode of Chess Not Checkers first aired June 10, 2025, and it's well worth a second listen. Keith Riddle and Jordan Tampien welcome Bobby Brett, whose life has straddled two worlds that shaped modern Spokane: professional sports and real estate. Raised in a family where competition was a way of life, Bobby carried that drive far beyond the diamond, turning a love of baseball into a career that reached into nearly every corner of the city. When his playing days wrapped, Bobby set his sights on real estate, and the timing proved pivotal. In 1985 he made the kind of move that defines a career, buying a Spokane minor league club and building it into the beloved Spokane Indians. He later added the Spokane Chiefs to his roster, becoming one of the most recognizable names in the region's sports scene. Off the field, his patient approach to property, buying quality real estate and holding it for the long haul, helped him leave a permanent mark on the way the city grew. In this conversation, Bobby pulls back the curtain on both pursuits: the instincts behind his biggest bets, how the Spokane market compares to places like California, the value hiding in the city's historic buildings, and the hard-won lessons he'd pass along to anyone hoping to invest and build something that lasts. Chapters: 00:00  Introduction 00:35  Bobby Brett's Early Life and Family Background 01:34  Journey to Spokane and Minor League Baseball 03:21  First Impressions of Spokane 04:21  Buying the Spokane Indians 10:38  Transition to Real Estate 14:45  Early Real Estate Ventures 22:12  Real Estate Strategies and Lessons 33:11  A Coach's Journey to Real Estate 33:53  Comparing Real Estate Markets: Spokane vs. California 35:01  Investing in Spokane's Historic Buildings 36:31  Challenges and Opportunities in Downtown Spokane 37:28  The Impact of Politics on Real Estate 40:06  The Value of Long-Term Real Estate Investment 46:35  Advice for Aspiring Real Estate Investors 50:18  Reflecting on Real Estate Market Trends 01:02:07  The Unique Appeal of Spokane's Sports Teams 01:03:03  Parting Words

In this episode of Chess Not Checkers, Keith Riddle and Jordan Tampien sit down with Ted Schmidt, a Spokane native who turned a local tool and equipment rental company into a regional powerhouse before finding his second act as a business coach. Ted shares the story of AA Rentals, how he worked his way up from a college job to partner and helped grow the company to 22 locations and roughly 400 employees across the I-5 corridor, right up until a major international buyer made an offer they could not refuse. After the sale, he and his wife left the rat race and came home to Spokane. These days Ted coaches business owners through ActionCOACH Northwest, and the conversation digs into the hard-won lessons behind that work: why you should build an asset, not a job, and start with the end in mind; why knowing your numbers still matters in the age of AI, since a tool can build the spreadsheet but not tell you which questions to ask; how leaders and employees alike hit a ceiling when they stop growing; and why so many owners wait until they are burned out to make their first hire. Whether you are a solopreneur eyeing your first hire, an owner trying to scale, or someone dreaming about an eventual exit, this episode is full of practical wisdom on building a business that can run, and grow, without you. Learn more about Ted's coaching at ActionCOACH Northwest: actioncoachnw.com Show Flow 00:00  Meet Ted Schmitt, Spokane Native 02:30  Building AA Rentals to 22 Locations 05:00  Industry Consolidation and Selling the Company 07:30  What College Missed About Real Business 12:30  Learning to Live by Your Numbers 17:38  The Second Act: Coaching Business Owners 22:44  Build an Asset, Not a Job 27:50  Systems, Conversion, and Knowing the Right Questions 33:00  It All Comes Down to Your Team 40:39  Knowing Your Numbers and Breaking Even on a Hire 45:42  Letting Go: Why Control Is a Weak Leader's Move 55:58  Creating Space and the First Hire

As wildfire moves through the Spokane area, Keith Riddle and Jordan Tampien set the business talk aside for a more personal conversation about what happens when disaster hits close to home. They open with the fire itself: the sudden evacuations across Indian Trail, Five Mile, and West Francis, the hundreds of homes lost, and why this one hit Eastern Washington harder than anything in recent memory.  B Keith and Jordan reflect on how moments like these strip away the noise and remind us what actually matters, not the bigger house or the nicer car, but the people we love and the time we have with them. They get into the lessons underneath the loss: why we overestimate what we can do in a day and underestimate what we can do in a year, the quiet power of the seeds we plant in others, and how to move through a hard season in a way that is honest but still productive. Whether you are in Spokane or watching from afar, this is a heartfelt conversation about resilience, gratitude, and keeping the main thing the main thing when life turns upside down. Show Flow 00:00  Spokane on Fire: What We're Watching Unfold 04:00  Evacuations and the Escape-Route Problem 08:00  Disbelief, Delay, and Gridlock Getting Out 12:00  What Recovery and Rebuilding Actually Involve 16:00  Insurance, Fire Zones, and the Cost to Rebuild 18:00  The Water, the Runoff, and the Environmental Toll 24:00  Lessons from the Palisades Fire 26:00  Making It About Yourself vs. Showing Up for Others 30:00  What You'd Grab, and What Really Matters 36:00  Grieving Without Getting Stuck 42:00  Finding What You're Made Of in Hard Times 54:00  Small Connections, Big Impact, and Where We Go Next

In this episode of Chess Not Checkers, Keith Riddle and Jordan Tampien sit down with Li Ciavola, a climber, real estate professional, and lead instructor for the Spokane Mountaineers, fresh off summiting Denali, the tallest and arguably toughest of the seven summits. Li takes us inside all 23 days on the mountain: pulling 160 pounds of gear across a crevassed glacier, riding out blizzards for days at a time, and the harrowing night his teammate nearly died of altitude sickness at 11,000 feet, which forced Li to navigate a whiteout alone with nothing but his phone and a fading battery. It is a gripping, high-stakes story told in vivid detail. But the real payoff is what climbing teaches about the long game. Li, Keith, and Jordan draw the throughline between the mountain and business: managing risk instead of avoiding it, making clear-headed decisions under pressure, and knowing when to push and when to turn around. Li also shares how real estate bought him the time freedom to chase the mountains in the first place, closing deals from a rope thousands of feet up. Whether you are a climber, an entrepreneur, or someone weighing the risks in your own big pursuit, this is a conversation about resilience, resourcefulness, and playing the long game. Follow Li on Instagram @dingos.domain to see the photos from his Denali climb. Show Flow: 00:00  Meeting Li and the Ciavola Name 02:04  Why Denali Is the Toughest of the Seven Summits 06:13  Altitude Sickness and Li's Climbing Background 09:26  Climbing Unguided: A Year of Prep and 160 Pounds of Gear 21:52  A Teammate Goes Down: The Emergency at Camp 11 34:48  Alone in a Whiteout 45:48  Type Two Fun, a New Teammate, and Tragedy on the Mountain 53:33  Risk, Reward, and What Price You're Willing to Pay 57:09  Climbing as Risk Management and a Metaphor for Life 1:03:23  Real Estate, Time Freedom, and Closing Deals From a Rope

He's our first repeat guest, and for good reason. In this episode of Chess Not Checkers, Keith Riddle and Jordan Tampien welcome back Jonathan Bingle, former Spokane City Council member and current candidate for state representative in Washington's 6th Legislative District. A lot has changed since his last visit, and the three of them cover serious ground. Jonathan shares his philosophy on what government is actually for, keeping people safe and building infrastructure, and where he believes it has drifted into problems it cannot solve. The conversation digs into housing and why he sees builders and entrepreneurs, rather than government, as the real housing providers; his case against rent control; public safety; and the personal cost of running for office while raising three young kids. From there it turns to the future: the rise of artificial intelligence, the high-stakes race between the United States and China, and what happens to human purpose, work, and faith when the machines catch up. Whether you are a business owner, a voter trying to make sense of local politics, or someone thinking hard about where technology is taking us, this is a candid, wide-ranging conversation about leadership, purpose, and the road ahead. Follow Jonathan and learn more about his campaign at jonathanbingle.com. 00:00  Welcome Back to Jonathan Bingle 05:27  What Government Is Actually For 08:00  Rent Control and the Real Cost of Housing 18:15  Public Safety and Lessons from City Council 20:46  Running as a Republican in a Blue State 28:30  The Sacrifice of Serving in Olympia 33:30  Entering the AI Frontier 38:30  The Race Against China 48:48  Progress, Disruption, and What AI Replaces 53:51  Purpose, Faith, and the Questions Ahead

What leads someone with a military and business background to step into local politics? In this episode of Chess Not Checkers, Keith Riddle and Jordan Tampien sit down with Alan Nolan, a Mead School Board member, retired Air Force lieutenant colonel, and candidate for Washington's 6th Legislative District, to trace his path from the Air Force Academy to Spokane and into public service. Alan shares how a career spanning the military, small business, and education shaped his approach to leadership, why he believes boards and government benefit from members who come from outside the institutions they oversee, and what finally moved him to get off the sidelines and run. The conversation digs into issues that hit close to home for Spokane, including the debate over Spokane Transit Authority's expansion and the North Division line, the role of fiscal responsibility in public budgets, and the connection Alan sees between tax policy, affordability, and challenges like homelessness and addiction. Whether you're a business owner, a civic-minded leader, or someone who has ever wondered whether getting involved is worth it, this episode offers a candid look at what it means to serve, to lead, and to think a few moves ahead. Learn more about Alan and his campaign at nolan4wa.com. Show Flow 00:00  Welcome to Chess Not Checkers 02:31  From the Air Force to Spokane and Starting 509 Design 07:35  Washington's Districts and Why Alan Ran 12:49  Winning a Seat on the Mead School Board 15:20  Education, Outside Perspectives, and Literacy 28:32  The STA Ballot Measure and Fiscal Responsibility 39:00  Markets, Density, and How Cities Plan 47:00  Accountability, Incentives, and Private-Sector Solutions 62:47  Oversight, Olympia, and the Cost of Living in Washington

What happens when one of your listeners takes over the podcast? In this special episode of Chess Not Checkers, loyal listener and real estate professional Matt Brunner steps behind the microphone to interview Keith Riddle and Jordan Tampien. Instead of bringing on a guest, the hosts become the guests, answering thoughtful questions about business, leadership, real estate, and the lessons they’ve learned throughout their careers. The conversation dives into the pressure of chasing “more,” the importance of finding your own definition of success, the value of coaching and mentorship, and why building a meaningful life requires more than simply growing a bigger business. Keith and Jordan also reflect on the mistakes they’ve made, the mindset shifts that changed their careers, and what they wish they had known when they were just getting started. If you’ve ever wondered what drives Keith and Jordan or wanted to hear them answer the kinds of questions they usually ask their guests, this episode offers an honest look behind the curtain. It’s a conversation about ambition, purpose, fulfillment, and learning to play the long game—in business and in life.  Learn more about Matt’s background, his approach to real estate investing, and the mission behind Matt Brunner Homes. mattbrunnerhomes.com/about