Advertise on podcast: We've Got To Talk

The USA 2026 Midterms are coming, and it feels like the whole country is being held hostage by political ads. They are everywhere, and a lot of them aren’t designed to inform you; they’re designed to polarize you. Jolene and I talk about how the media cycle shapes your nervous system, why constant outrage makes us less informed, and how both parties use fear to rally their base and keep voters reactive. We also get into polling, because at this point it can feel like a daily anxiety machine. “The race is tightening.” “Momentum is shifting.” But who actually answers polls anymore, and what do small sample sizes really tell us in a country this big? We unpack why midterm election polls often create more noise than clarity, and how they can push people into gloating, spiralling, or checking out before voting even starts. On a personal level, we talk about the very real frustration of choosing between candidates you don’t love. In New York’s 10th Congressional District, I’ve had that “lesser of two evils” feeling more than once, and Jolene’s point is simple: this isn’t just a liberal problem or a conservative problem. It’s a system problem, and the system rarely rewards candidates trying to serve the middle during US elections. We share how we’re shifting from fear to facts with grounded sources like Gabe Fleisher’s Wake Up to Politics https://www.youtube.com/@wakeuptopolitics , and why it still matters to vote even if you have to hold your nose. We also talk about tools like Bridgegrades.org , following the money, and slowing down on purpose so you can make a clear-headed choice instead of getting played by the outrage machine. CHAPTER MARKERS: 00:00 Introduction 01:41 Why Polls Feel Useless 07:52 Are Any Races Competitive 10:29 Predictions House vs Senate 10:55 Attack Ads Get Ugly 12:40 Money Flooding Elections 16:15 Voting Early and Ballot Confusion 17:39 Judges and Local Races Matter 20:04 Tools for Smarter Voting 24:43 Big States To Watch 25:12 Cities Poverty And DSA 29:31 Minnesota Senate Spotlight 30:32 Polls Margin Of Error 32:08 Election Night Survival Tips RESOURCES MENTIONED Gabe Fleisher's Substack Wake Up to Politics: https://open.substack.com/pub/wakeuptopolitics/p/everyone-thinks-theyre-going-to-win?r=n7so4&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email Gabe Fleisher’s YouTube Wake up to Politics: https://www.youtube.com/@wakeuptopolitics We Made This Political Podcast: https://wemadethispolitical.substack.com/p/ep-68-gabe-fleisher-on-saving-political Isaac Saul:The Dark Side Behind Fear Based Political Ads https://youtu.be/vbMCeI19PPE?si=vaIQimN8HPU-7zJ7 Tangle: https://www.instagram.com/p/Deu29OvDw1m/?img_index=3 Bridge Grades: https://www.bridgegrades.org/ Brad Porteus: https://youtu.be/g4kH4AFXqNs?si=7NtBFT4VRICC7SmZ Marc Goldwein: https://youtu.be/PH8naCqamcE?si=HV05zuJ7-4G_B_wm Watch Midterms Live here: https://www.youtube.com/@MoNews City Cast Salt Lake City podcast: https://saltlake.citycast.fm/ LINKS: Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2 How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

“Underneath every complaint is a hope.” That line from Liz Vogel stopped Jolene and I in our tracks, because once you hear it, you see it everywhere. The angry post, the rant at the school meeting, the neighbor who won’t stop talking about how everything’s gone downhill often isn’t just complaining. It’s someone asking, in the only way they know how, to be seen, to be heard, and to feel like someone actually cares. We sat down with Liz Vogel, Executive Director of New Pluralists, to talk about bridging divides in a politically divided America without trying to change each other’s minds. Liz is also training as a death doula, and she explains why that work connects so naturally to pluralism, because at the end of life, what people want most is to be understood on their own terms. That same need sits underneath so much of our conflict right now. Liz breaks down what New Pluralists actually does: it’s a funder collaborative investing in local organizations across the US that are doing the real work of building cooperation, reducing isolation, and helping communities stay in relationship even when they disagree. This is about depolarization, social cohesion, and rebuilding trust, not creating a country where everyone thinks the same or forcing a “mushy middle” where convictions don’t matter. We talk about pluralism as a practical way to live together in a diverse society while still solving problems together. The goal isn’t to win arguments or convert people; it’s to humanize each other again and stop treating the person across from you like a symbol. CHAPTER MARKERS: 00:00 Introduction 03:24 What New Pluralists Does 05:24 How Funding Works 09:26 Cross Partisan Grantees 16:27 Defining Pluralism 23:48 Dehumanization And Distrust 27:10 Death Doula Lens 36:15 Grief And Rituals 41:29 From Grief To Grievance 44:19 New Pluralists Mission 49:43 Inside The Grant Process 55:19 Pluralism And Hope Practice RESOURCES MENTIONED New Pluralists Website: https://newpluralists.org/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/newpluralists/posts/?feedView=all LinkedIn Liz: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lizvogel23/ Liz's Good for the Soul: https://goodreads.com/book/show/43708884.The_Boy__the_Mole__the_Fox_and_the_Horse LINKS: Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2 How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

Jolene and I have been trying to work out whether the US is actually in a financial emergency, or whether we’re just stuck in the usual loop of scary headlines, charts, and people yelling on cable news. Because after a while you either spiral or you go numb, and neither one helps you understand what’s real. So we spoke to economist Marc Goldwein, and instead of drama, he gave us the calm, numbers-based version, which was somehow more unsettling. Marc’s view is blunt: the US is in the worst financial shape it’s ever been in, at least in the ways that matter for what comes next. He points to 10-year and 30-year Treasury yields being the highest since the early 2000s, which matters because higher interest rates plus massive national debt means the cost of servicing that debt starts eating everything else. It’s like carrying a credit card balance you can’t pay down, then watching the interest rate jump while you try to keep living your life as normal. The part that really lands is this: US interest payments now exceed national defense spending. That’s not a talking point, it’s a budget reality, and it changes what the government can afford to do. Marc also explains that while the national debt is close to its World War II level, the interest burden is worse, with interest as a share of the economy roughly doubling. So even if the debt number feels historically familiar, the pressure it creates today is not. Then we get to the obvious question: if it’s this bad, why aren’t we fixing it? Marc’s answer is basically incentives. Politicians get rewarded for cutting taxes and handing out benefits, and punished for asking people to pay more or accept less. Add in the time-horizon problem, where leaders focus on the next election instead of the next decade, and you get a system that keeps kicking the can until it turns into a wrecking ball. The takeaway is uncomfortable but simple: this isn’t only a politician problem, it’s also a voter problem, and if we don’t face it now, we’re handing future generations a country where more and more money goes to interest and less goes to anything that actually makes life better. CHAPTER MARKERS:00:00 Introduction 03:09 Why Debt Keeps Rising 04:17 Social Security Clock 06:47 Explaining The Trust Fund 12:22 Simpson Bowles Lessons 19:11 Two Big New Ideas 23:27 AARP And Political Will 27:00 What It Takes To Reform 29:21 Commissions Versus Regular Order 32:54 Why AARP Has Power 34:49 Debt Versus Deficit 41:12 Fixes Healthcare Waste 45:04 Tax Reform And Revenue 51:48 Your Civic Assignment 53:56 Where To Find CRFB RESOURCES MENTIONED Committee For A Responsible Federal Budget: https://www.crfb.org/ Marc's Good for the Soul: https://marthastable.org/ LINKS: Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2 How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

Most of us don’t want “our side” to win. We want the country to work, with less chaos, less political theater, and fewer people getting rich off outrage while nothing gets fixed. We’re joined by Lura Forcum, a consumer and social psychologist who studies the human dynamics underneath politics, identity, belonging, and why we get so weird around people who disagree with us. Lura breaks down why “tribalism” isn’t just a buzzword. It’s the system underneath the system, and the real danger isn’t bickering; it’s dehumanization. Once the other side feels like an existential threat, we stop having policy conversations and start living in a survival story, and you can’t govern well from that place. We also talk about competitive politics versus tribal politics, and why purity tests on both sides reward warriors instead of statesmen. Lura explains how parties stop listening to voters and start dictating terms, and why policy so often gets made without talking to the people who actually live under it. If you’re disillusioned, tired, or waiting for the perfect candidate, Lura’s message is simple: vote anyway. Vote as an independent thinker, show up for primaries, and reward decency and public service over performative outrage. Her final assignment is surprisingly wholesome and honestly needed right now: have a potluck, break bread, and rebuild community face to face. CHAPTER MARKERS:00:00 Introduction 04:15 Tribal vs Competitive Politics 07:44 Warriors and Purity Tests 15:29 Rebuilding Civic Culture 18:15 Entitlement Reform Reality Check 22:11 Why Parties Ignore Voters 26:41 Independents and Real Competition 35:46 Why Primaries Matter 38:53 Decency Over Policy Purity 44:03 Social Media and Tribal Rage 48:05 Potluck as Civic Medicine RESOURCES MENTIONED Where to Find Lura: https://www.linkedin.com/in/luraforcum/ https://www.facebook.com/lura.forcum https://substack.com/@luraforcum https://www.instagram.com/luraforcum/ https://www.youtube.com/@LuraForcum_HowtoHuman Lura’s Podcast: https://wemadethispolitical.substack.com/ https://www.youtube.com/@WeMadeThisPolitical LINKS: Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2 How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

Most of us don’t actually want “our side” to win. We want the country to work, with less chaos, less political theatre, and fewer people getting rich off outrage while nothing gets fixed. This week we welcomed Brad Porteus from Bridge Grades back onto the podcast, and his idea is refreshingly simple. Bridge Grades is a congressional report card that doesn’t measure ideology, it measures collaboration. It uses nonpartisan, third-party data to score how lawmakers govern, so you can get a clearer read on who builds across the aisle and who fuels division. What hit us most is how much this challenges the way we’re trained to vote. Most people don’t vote based on effectiveness; they vote based on identity, fear, habit, or revenge, and if you’re deeply loyal to a party, a report card probably won’t change your mind. The bigger opportunity is everyone else, especially the exhausted middle and the millions of eligible Americans who didn’t vote last election because they don’t trust anyone and don’t see the point. If you’re curious, use Bridge Grades as a second lens before the next election. Look up your lawmakers, notice what happens in your own head when you see a grade you didn’t expect, and ask what we’re rewarding as a culture. Because if we keep voting like it’s a tribal loyalty test, we’re going to keep getting tribal outcomes, and we’ll all keep sitting here wondering why nothing works. CHAPTER MARKERS:00:00 Introduction 00:21 Meet Brad and Bridge Grades 01:49 How the Scoring Works 07:29 Legislative Metrics Explained 11:22 Gaming the Bipartisan Score 13:47 Performative Bridging Debate 17:37 Exhausted Middle and Independents 20:29 Bridgers at Risk in Swing Seats 28:26 Roasting Government Dysfunction 31:41 Texas Race Trust Issues 34:14 Breaking Tribal Partisanship 36:32 Reaching the Disengaged Millions 38:05 Shift from Party to Ideology RESOURCES MENTIONED: Brad's Good for the Soul: Otis Cutts Old Music Friday: https://www.instagram.com/owencutts/?hl=en LINKS: Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2 How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

We’ve lost a lot of trust in politicians in America, and it’s not hard to see why. Politics feels like a permanent campaign where leaders are performing, fundraising, and protecting their careers while the real problems keep getting worse. Our guest is Adam Cronkright, creator of the film Goodbye Politicians Hello Democracy, which explores a bold alternative to the current political system. Adam’s idea is simple but disruptive: replace career politicians with ordinary citizens selected by lottery, supported with experts and staff, and asked to make decisions on behalf of their communities. It’s a conversation about democratic lotteries, citizen assemblies, and what “government by the people” could actually mean in practice. We talk about why elections often produce a political class instead of real representation, and how incentives like party loyalty, media attention, and fundraising have turned politics into theatre. Adam shares what happened when 30 regular people in Michigan were selected during 2020 to work through pandemic decisions together, and why good faith disagreement becomes possible when nobody is angling for re-election or scoring points for social media. If you’re tired of political polarisation, the two-party system, and the feeling that you’re just a spectator in your own democracy, this episode offers a hopeful, practical reframe. It’s about accountability, trust, civic participation, and whether citizens could govern more effectively than professional politicians. CHAPTER MARKERS:00:00 Introduction 00:22 Meet Adam Cronkright 05:19 Why Make This Film 07:18 Democratic Lottery Explained 09:17 How Selection Works 14:07 Where Democracy Goes Next 18:10 A Post Party System 22:25 Pushback and Corruption 27:34 Extremes and Being Heard 30:19 How to Watch the Film RESOURCES MENTIONED: Goodbye Politicians, Hello Democracy: https://goodbyepoliticians.movie/ Adam's Good for the Soul: My Unsung Hero podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/my-unsung-hero/id1586880312 https://open.spotify.com/show/2lBDAGE8UkizPEC2ZjmgaP LINKS: Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2 How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

Politics can feel like a loyalty test now. Like you are either on the right team, or you are a threat. In this conversation with Larry Rosen, attorney turned mediator and host of The Enemies Project YouTube docuseries, we talk about what happens when people stop seeing each other as humans and start treating politics like a team sport. Larry’s work sits right in the middle of the biggest problems in political polarization and social division: we assume intention, we fill in the blanks with the worst story, and we turn disagreement into moral war. We unpack why conflict is rarely just about the surface issue, how “enemy making” works, and why curiosity feels like betrayal when the nervous system is in threat mode. We also get into Larry’s approach to depolarization and conflict resolution, including rapport-building, extreme perspective taking, and the moment that changes everything: helping people understand what the other person is trying to protect. It is not about forcing agreement. It is about making it harder to keep the other side as a cartoon, and easier to have hard conversations without dehumanising each other. If you care about bridging the political divide, civil discourse, and how to talk to people you disagree with without damaging your relationships beyond repair, this one will land. It is a reminder that healing is not soft, and it is not naive; it is one of the only paths out of the loop we are stuck in. CHAPTER MARKERS:00:00 Introduction 00:22 Meet Larry Rosen 02:50 From Lawyer to Mediator 05:43 Why Enemies Project Started 12:20 Enemies Project Format 15:49 Extreme Perspective Taking 19:37 Healthy Conflict Zone 23:33 Platforming and Safety 30:38 Casting Real Enemies 34:29 Why Activists Fight 35:39 Low Empathy And AI 42:22 Future Of Enemies Project RESOURCES MENTIONED: https://www.enemiesproject.org/ Larry's Good for the Soul: https://youtube.com/shorts/aFuuyibkx1Q?si=MhVJvWhH5SMGPDdb LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk On Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701 On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2 How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

We are back in the Ozarks for our second annual in-person recording at Jolene’s house, and we decided to ask each other a handful of questions we have thought about asking, but never have. We start with something deceptively simple: why Jolene hides how funny (and sometimes crass) she is on the podcast. It turns into a bigger conversation about authenticity, self-censoring, and how exhausting it is to try to be inoffensive all the time. In a culture where politics feels performative and everyone is bracing for outrage, being real can feel risky, but it is also what makes people relatable. From there we get into the harder stuff: what Nicole struggles to defend about the Democratic Party, and what Republican beliefs she actually agrees with. We talk about political extremes, the national debt, homelessness, cost of living, and why so many people can “smell” consultant language and talking points a mile away. It is less about scoring points and more about thinking clearly, even when your own side is messy. If you are tired of political polarization, tribalism, and the feeling that every conversation is a loyalty test, this episode is a reminder that there is another way through, and it starts with staying human long enough to listen. CHAPTER MARKERS:00:00 Introduction 00:35 Five Questions Challenge 01:07 Why Not More Humor 05:44 Democrats Hard To Defend 11:13 Holding Back On Air 15:35 Common Ground With GOP 17:27 Questioning Beliefs ALICE 25:13 Three Laws As President 26:47 Voter ID Accountability 27:14 Reining In Executive Orders 28:26 Stocks PACs and Lobbyists 30:27 Why AI Feels Dangerous 35:02 Everyday AI and Kids 37:27 Dream Administration Picks 43:25 Cross Party Leadership Idea 44:37 Personal Secrets and Shyness 47:07 Pickup Truck Life Lesson RESOURCES MENTIONED: Larry Rosen of The Enemies Project: https://www.enemiesproject.org/ WGTT United for Alice episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWR77jzh1aQ Gwen Stefani- Hollerback Girl: https://youtu.be/Kgjkth6BRRY?si=p_xkfcscFsHegSD4 Patsy Cline- Crazy: https://youtu.be/MbnrdCS57d0?si=H7N6gdb9DX4JBp3m Dolly Parton-Jolene: https://youtu.be/Ixrje2rXLMA?si=k6qzW_ix_5MwiX9G Ray LaMontagne- Jolene: https://youtu.be/YTjKotAu4xQ?si=VX_9eYc6Xxd3GLTB Cruise Inn Throttle Down: https://cruise-inns.com/ Congress Stock Trading: https://www.quiverquant.com/congresstrading/ Van Jones interview with Bill Gates: https://vanjones.substack.com/p/my-bill-gates-interview-on-ai-global?r=n7so4&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&timestamp=1.2 Brooke L. Rollins, Secretary of Agriculture: https://www.usda.gov/our-agency/about-usda/our-secretary Senator Jeff Merkley: https://www.merkley.senate.gov/ Governor Mikie Sherill: https://www.nj.gov/governor/ Courage Can Save Us Book: https://couragecansaveus.com/ With Honor: https://withhonor.org/ Rahm Emanuel: https://www.instagram.com/rahmemanuel/?hl=en Sarah Longwell of The Bulwark: https://www.longwellpartners.com/sarah-longwell/ LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk On Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701 On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2 How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

A year and a half ago, when we started our podcast, Jolene and I had an uncomfortable realization. We weren’t just “watching the news”; we were watching news that already agreed with us. Jolene had her conservative media, I had my liberal media, and even when we landed on the same basic facts, the emotional tone was completely different depending on what we’d been consuming. Same country, same week, two totally different versions of reality shaped by cable news and political commentary. So we cleaned up our media diet and started looking for sources that show more than one angle, like Ground News, Tangle, Mo News, 1440, and Straight Arrow News. We wanted to be less easily manipulated by algorithms and outrage, and better able to have civil conversations across political differences. If you’ve been searching for “balanced news sources,” “media bias chart,” or “how to avoid political echo chambers,” this is exactly the road we started walking. Then my husband Josh, suggested a new experiment: a full week of Fox News and MSNOW (full immersion, no cherry-picked clips). I know it’s a shock to hear this, but it did not make us smarter. It made us anxious. Both networks seemed to run the same play, just with different villains: keep you slightly scared, slightly angry, and just certain enough that you don’t go looking elsewhere. It wasn’t “here’s what happened,” it was “here’s what happened, here’s who to blame, and here’s why you should be worried.” What really stung is how normal it feels when you’re in it daily. It feels like being responsible, like staying informed, like doing your civic duty. But after a week, we could see the pattern clearly: less clarity, more defensiveness, more judgement, and more confidence about things we hadn’t actually researched. We talk about how 24-hour news cycles turn commentary into the product, why outrage is profitable, and what to do instead, including tools like Ad Fontes Media, reading across sources, and the simplest antidote of all: get back into real life, talk to actual humans, and take action in your community instead of marinating in rage. CHAPTER MARKERS:00:00 Introduction 01:36 One Week Fox vs MSNBC 02:09 Three Takeaways From Jolene 04:05 Nicole’s Takeaways 06:33 Bias Charts And Better Sources 07:39 Big Stories Compared 09:58 Spin On Trump And Iran 14:07 Quit Doomscrolling All Day 19:59 How To Research Without Bias 25:00 Do Something With The News RESOURCES MENTIONED: We've Got To Talk Swamping News Sources for 10 days episode: https://youtu.be/5wtPeP8XwAk?si=pzJ5Ef_KL8gz5Yaw Fox News Hourly Update: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/fox-news-hourly-update/id209991975 Morning Joe podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/morning-joe/id974299441 Fox News: https://www.foxnews.com/ MSNOW: https://www.ms.now/ Ad Fontes Media Bias Chart: https://app.adfontesmedia.com/chart/interactive?utm_source=adfontesmedia&utm_medium=website Tangle News: https://www.readtangle.com/ Mo News: https://www.mo.news/ Straight Arrow News: https://san.com/ Ground News: https://ground.news/ 1440: https://join1440.com/ Isaac Saul of Tangle Ted Talk: https://youtu.be/543mYKKh1EE?si=aEscLTxkXbGx39IR LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk On Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701 On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2 How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

They’re saying Social Security could run out by 2032, and that timeline is close enough to feel real. We talk through what that warning actually means for everyday Americans, especially if you’ve got parents, grandparents, a spouse, or a future self who’s been assuming this safety net will be there. This isn’t a “someday” problem. It’s a real deadline that’s already shaping what comes next. We also clear up the most common question people ask: “Is Social Security really going to run out?” The program doesn’t just vanish overnight, but the money set aside to pay full benefits is projected to fall short, and if Congress does nothing, automatic benefit cuts become the default. That’s why this matters beyond politics, because Social Security is a monthly lifeline for millions of people, not a talking point. A lot of people forget Social Security isn’t only about retirement. It covers disability benefits, survivor benefits, and the kind of support that keeps families afloat after a death, an accident, or a diagnosis. We talk about why the silence around Social Security is so dangerous, and why it keeps getting pushed aside even though it affects real lives, real bills, and real dignity. Finally, we get into the frustrating part: there’s actually bipartisan agreement that something needs to be done, but the incentives reward delay. We walk through the kinds of solutions lawmakers keep circling, like raising the payroll tax cap, changing payroll taxes, adjusting benefits for higher earners, raising the retirement age and why every option comes with trade-offs. CHAPTER MARKERS:00:00 Introduction 00:46 Why Social Security Now 03:17 What Social Security Covers 04:27 Fixes Taxes Benefits Age 08:57 Congress Performance Problem 11:08 The Payroll Tax Cap 12:55 Big Beautiful Bill Impact 22:08 Donut Hole Explained 25:26 Raising Age And Investing 29:55 More System Pressures 32:29 Rapid Fire Solutions 33:58 Seniors With No Savings 34:44 Means Testing Debate 35:54 Tax Breaks For Giving Back 36:57 Teaching Money And Debt 37:54 Baby Bonds And Investing 39:13 Bipartisan Fix Now 39:53 Taxing Wages And Capital 43:30 No Benefit Cuts 45:40 Congress Needs Focus 47:06 Call Your Congressperson RESOURCES MENTIONED: Original clip from viewer: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DavOpqYgTi6/ CSPAN: Senate Social Security Meeting: March 25, 2026 https://www.c-span.org/program/senate-committee/senate-budget-committee-examines-social-security-solvency/676234 August 5, 2026 Senate Finance Committee SS Solvency: https://youtu.be/M4ZUg7woHAs?si=P4RUx90pd7xy7eyz August 4, 2026: Dick Durbin and Bill Cassidy Crosspartisan https://www.c-span.org/program/us-senate/sens-cassidy-and-durbin-on-social-security-insolvency/683706 Bridge Grades: https://www.bridgegrades.org/ Japanese 7/Eleven Egg Salad: https://www.7-eleven.com/products/fresh-chilled/egg-salad Bonus Recipe!!! https://www.foodandwine.com/japanese-7-eleven-egg-salad-sandwich-6416077 Zach Bryan: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwK3C8Vgphad4PweezfUBAQ Dierks Bentley: https://dierks.com/ Nascar: https://www.nascar.com/ LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk On Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701 On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2 How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

We walked away from our conversation with Layla Zaidane feeling something we don’t always feel after talking about politics: hope. Layla is the President and CEO of Future Caucus, and her whole approach is built around a simple idea that changes everything. If young lawmakers across party lines can know each other as people first, the work changes. The temperature drops, the incentives shift, and bipartisan cooperation stops feeling like a miracle and starts feeling like a skill. Layla also shared the personal story behind why she does this work, from her family’s journey from Morocco to growing up in the shadow of 9/11 and the identity questions that followed. Listening to her, it’s easy to understand how someone ends up committed to diplomacy, civic leadership, and bridging divides. She’s not chasing a shiny version of politics. She’s trying to build a more human one, and that matters in a time when political polarisation is treated like entertainment. We talked about Future Summit, which is basically a mid-year reset for state legislators who are tired, stretched thin, and trying to keep going. There are real policy wins and serious conversations, but there’s also joy and connection because trust doesn’t grow in a vacuum. If you can’t laugh together, you’re not going to legislate together, and Future Caucus seems to understand that relationships are not a side quest. They are the work. We also got into the hard realities facing young people in politics, like the cost of running for office, low pay, burnout, threats, and rising political violence. Layla was blunt about what it will take to keep good people in public service: structural support, better compensation, stronger staffing, and systems that make the job sustainable. If you’ve been searching for how to reduce political division, how to rebuild trust in democracy, or how to have civil political conversations across party lines, this one is a hopeful reminder that better models exist, and they’re already being built. CHAPTER MARKERS:00:00 Introduction 00:21 Meet Layla Zaidane 01:13 Roots and 9/11 03:28 From Recession to Politics 07:14 Founding Future Caucus 09:47 How the Caucuses Work 16:20 Generations and Leadership 26:49 Why Young People Run 30:32 Inside Future Summit 35:46 Money Fundraising Hurdles 36:53 Retention Beyond One Term 37:45 Legislator Pay Reality 45:41 Political Violence Crisis 49:30 Solidarity Disagree Better RESOURCES MENTIONED: Future Caucus: https://futurecaucus.org/Future Caucus Exit Interview: https://futurecaucus.org/the-exit-interview/ Layla’s Podcast, Terms of Service: https://youtu.be/Nkbhx-o4FY0?si=fLud5hpQ4jlohHxj Layla’s Good for the Soul: The Little Prince: https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/157993.The_Little_Prince LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk On Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701 On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2 How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

Accountability and common ground shouldn’t feel like rare collectibles in American politics, but lately that’s exactly what they are. In this episode, we ask the question a lot of exhausted Americans are asking right now: what is wrong with our political parties? We talk honestly about feeling a bit party-less, even while coming from different political leanings. Jolene is worn down by what Trump is doing and what parts of the Republican Party keep excusing, while Nicole is frustrated by the idea that the only path forward for Democrats is to become a far-left mirror image of the same chaos. The bigger point is how both sides can get trapped in a reactive loop where tribalism, outrage, and constant escalation are rewarded, and reasonable people are treated like they’re naive. From there, the conversation shifts to what most people actually want: safety, stability, and a government that doesn’t feel like a reality show. We dig into the “exhausted majority”, the people who aren’t screaming online all day and would love to see something almost radical in 2026: bipartisan cooperation and cross-party collaboration. They also get into why Congress feels broken, why executive orders keep whiplashing the country, and why durable laws require compromise, even when it’s uncomfortable. We also chat about the “America First” debate and why that phrase hits differently depending on who’s saying it. We then discuss why decency needs to be the way forward. Character matters, truth matters, and party loyalty shouldn’t be a free pass. If you’re tired of political chaos, culture war theatre, and leaders who perform for the loudest edges, this episode is a grounded conversation about voting (especially in primaries), rewarding adults in the room, and remembering that labels are meant to describe us, not trap us. CHAPTER MARKERS:00:00 Introduction 01:00 Democrats: Three Problems 02:52 Republicans Spending and Identity 03:29 Immigration and ICE Concerns 04:40 America First and Tariffs 08:39 Congress Is Broken 12:34 Language and Media Triggers 17:16 Bipartisan Budget Fixes 21:42 Extremes and Decency Debate 25:59 Collaboration Over Compromise 28:56 Vote in Primaries 33:01 Would You Rather Segment 35:09 Sponsor Plug and Wrap RESOURCES MENTIONED: Congress is Broken: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJmJTofEN3E Isaac Saul’s Ted Talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/isaac_saul_3_ideas_for_communicating_across_the_political_divide?utm_campaign=tedspread&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=tedcomshare Lalshareef: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DbHAbAgOA4u/ Brad Porteus of Bridge Grades on MO News: https://lnkd.in/p/gQUQxSMN Dan Goldman District 10: https://www.instagram.com/repdangoldman/?hl=en Jolene’s Dible Dough: https://dibledough.com/ Our Website: https://www.wevegottotalk.com/ LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk On Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701 On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2 How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

Social media algorithms are shaping how the world sees America, and it’s not pretty. In this episode, we ask a simple question people are searching for everywhere right now: what does the rest of the world think of Americans when the only thing they see is viral outrage? To get a real outside perspective, we have brought in our Australian producer and editor, Brianna Ansaldo, who has spent the last 18 months editing our conversations and absorbing American news from a distance. Brianna’s take is blunt and familiar to anyone who’s ever Googled “How America is viewed overseas” or “why does the world think America is violent.” When Australians picture the US, two images rise to the top fast: guns and healthcare. School shootings and a healthcare system that can bankrupt you dominate what makes it through the feed. At the same time, she says Americans as individuals often come across as warm, funny, and generous, which makes the contrast even more jarring. The big reveal is where that impression comes from. It’s not cable news. It’s not newspapers. It’s Social Media. Brianna explains that if she wants to know what’s happening in America, she scrolls and lets the algorithm decide, which is exactly how a lot of younger people get their news now. That means the “America” being exported is curated by an engagement engine built for outrage, fear, and spectacle, not by journalists weighing what matters. If you’ve searched “how TikTok algorithms influence politics” or “why social media makes everything worse,” this conversation will feel uncomfortably accurate. Finally, Brianna compares the US political system to Australia’s, where voting is compulsory and party differences can feel less extreme. She’s baffled by the size of the gap between Republicans and Democrats, and by the way Americans often treat party loyalty like identity. We take a look at what that does to trust, nuance, and civic life, and why America isn’t as divided as the highlight reel suggests, but also isn’t totally fine. The algorithm isn’t lying; it’s just repeating the loudest version until it feels like the whole truth. CHAPTER MARKERS:00:00 Intro 00:31 Introducing producer Brianna Ansaldo 04:07 Australia's take on American guns 05:11 The broken healthcare system in USA 06:52 Has Trump-era coverage of America spiked? 09:08 Why TikTok is the real news source 12:02 Has Brianna’s perspective on U.S. politics shifted? 13:36 Australia's parliamentary system explained 16:20 Compulsory voting in Australia 22:31 Australia's take on AI and data centers 23:31 The World Cup's surprising ripple effect 30:29 Being tired of talking about Trump 38:17 Is Trump secretly good for America? RESOURCES MENTIONED: Brianna Ansaldo - Bamby Media: https://www.bambymedia.com/ Brianna Carpenter Australian Idol Days: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2v4rl Pauline Hanson, Australian One Nation Candidate: https://youtu.be/R6oVBLKbzjg?si=NM9SWWkjhGMDRp0O Stephen Hawkins: More In Common, WGTT episode: https://youtu.be/GpcXMoW2vcg?si=W-JZt-9sGnhqCXAO Julia Gillard, first Australian female prime minister: https://australian.museum/publications/200-treasures-of-the-australian-museum/100-people/julia-gillard/ Jacinda Ardern, New Zealand Prime Minister https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDtBqvfm7vY Aussie Perspective of World Cup/Trump/Spanish Football Team: https://youtu.be/yK8yMMelqMw?si=F6BVMX7XDKTJ53gF I’ve Had It: https://youtube.com/@ivehaditpodcast?si=cWfNZGsLYrDfIbzn Good For The Soul: https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/212070792-music-as-medicine Our Website: https://www.wevegottotalk.com/ LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk On Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701 On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2 How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

Why does it feel like two-thirds of the country has completely checked out of the political process? In this special mailbag episode, Jolene and I step up to answer your political questions, breaking down everything from White House budgeting issues to local primary election shocks. We take an honest, unvarnished look at the real-world feedback filling our inbox, proving that a liberal and a conservative can unpack highly polarized topics with total respect, deep curiosity, and zero filtering. We jump straight into the controversy surrounding the $600 million White House ballroom renovation project. We look at the actual reality behind this massive infrastructure project, exploring why Trump's typical "bull in a china shop" style triggers immediate media panic even when certain facility updates are legitimately required for national security. We talk about what seems like a total breakdown of standard Request for Proposals (RFP) protocols, look at the cost-plus budgeting system, and share our mutual frustration over government contracts handed down to political insider buddies. There are also the surprising results of the recent New York primary, where an organized wave of Democratic Socialists completely dominated local platforms. I (Nicole) share a vital reality check on how a tiny 5% to 8% voter turnout completely skews our democratic representation, allowing fringe extremes on both sides of the aisle to capture the narrative while the "exhausted majority" sits on the sidelines. We also tackle a highly specific foreign aid dilemma, discussing the global stakes of tracking Ebola and medical research funding against the systemic fraud within programs like USAID. Finally, we reveal the top three takeaways we want to see implemented in high school civics curriculum to save the next generation from toxic polarization. From teaching the active, lost art of deep listening to designing classroom frameworks around real-world compromise and pocket Constitutions, we map out a practical path back to institutional decorum. CHAPTER MARKERS: 00:00 Intro 00:01:26 The $600M White House ballroom. 00:01:59 Going around Congress for funding. 00:02:40 Government bidding and RFP processes. 00:03:15 Giving contracts to political buddies. 00:04:06 Trump's image-driven leadership style. 00:05:50 Picking our dream impossible guests. 00:08:22 Reading the Bible at college. 00:10:08 Stephen Hawkins on polarization data. 00:12:45 Shaking up the NY primary. 00:14:12 Fixing our massive polarization problem. 00:14:37 The truth about the exhausted majority. 00:15:18 Low primary turnout ruins choices. 00:17:35 Remaking high school civics classes. 00:18:31 Tracking public education's rapid decline. 00:19:42 Fraud and waste in USAID. 00:20:18 The power of foreign aid. 00:22:48 Taking a chainsaw to government. 00:25:13 How this podcast changed us. 00:28:05 Unpacking pro-life and pro-choice stances. 00:29:41 Understanding the psychology of gun owners. 00:31:09 How social media monetizes anger. 00:33:55 The reality of money and power. 00:39:48 Shifting gears for the midterms. 00:43:05 Would You Rather RESOURCES MENTIONED: David French Interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQSKSrQfw78 The Stephen Hawkins Research Profile: https://www.moreincommon.com/our-work/research/) Stephen Hawkins Interview: https://youtu.be/GpcXMoW2vcg The White House Ballroom Renovation Project: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-dc-reflecting-pool-renovation-white-house-ballroom-triumphal-arch/ WGTT Switching News Sources for 10 days: https://youtu.be/5wtPeP8XwAk?si=mNyBqXYbdpk-kJD7 Monica Guzmán Interview: https://youtu.be/DqoLxk0-Yqk The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) Civic Engagement Report: Check out the direct tracking metrics on national primary voter turnouts and participation dips: https://www.cbo.gov/ Our Website: https://www.wevegottotalk.com/ LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk On Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701 On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2 How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

Accountability on Capitol Hill should be a given, but why is it that Congress feels immune to the standards the rest of us live by? It’s easy to see why voters across the political spectrum are fed up. If you’ve ever searched “why is Congress so ineffective,” “why don’t politicians get fired,” or “why is Washington so broken,” we’re discussing a lot of these questions in this episode. We start with the basics that should not be controversial: show up, do the job, and act like public service is actually service. We talk about the shift from a five-day work week to a three-day work week in Washington, D.C. and how that change fuels polarization by killing real relationship-building. Less time together means less trust, more performative politics, and a system that rewards soundbites over solutions. Then we get into two issues people constantly Google and argue about: stock trading for politicians and the budget process. Why are members of Congress allowed to trade stocks while writing laws that move markets? How do so many politicians become millionaires on a $175,000 salary? And why are continuing resolutions and government shutdown threats still being used like a weapon instead of passing a real budget like adults? Finally, we talk about the human cost of all of this. When elected officials disappear for weeks or months, miss votes, and hide behind vague explanations, it creates chaos and destroys trust. Mental health matters, but accountability matters too. If we want decency, transparency, and real consequences back in government, it may have to come from voters, not from the institution protecting itself. CHAPTER MARKERS: 00:00 Intro 00:28 Accountability on Capitol Hill. Congressional accountability and public trust 01:07 Three Fixes for Congress. 02:59 When politicians disappear and voters get no answers 08:19 Party loyalty, scandals, and “winning at all costs” 12:12 Reform Ideas. Term limits, ballot initiatives, and constitutional amendments 15:24 Money and Power in Washington. 17:50 Decency and Bipartisanship. Exhausted majority and Future Caucus hope 20:07 Israel and Antisemitism. Nuance, party distrust, and black and white politics 27:54 Rethinking the Congress Workweek. 5 day vs 3 day schedule and polarization 30:34 Attendance and Accountability. Show up, vote, and do the job 31:48 Fixing the Federal Budget Process. Continuing resolutions and shutdown threats RESOURCES MENTIONED: Lindsey Graham: https://apnews.com/article/lindsey-graham-dies-south-carolina-bfa556e170f2df22ce9ffc7165da3dfa Tom Kean: https://www.statnews.com/2026/06/30/republican-tom-kean-jr-reveals-depression-after-absence-from-congress/ End Congressional Stock Trading Act (H.R. 1908, 119th Congress) https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/1908 Reps. Ocasio-Cortez, Roy, and Magaziner on insider trading legislation (C-SPAN) https://www.c-span.org/program/news-conference/reps-ocasio-cortez-roy-and-magaziner-speak-to-reporters-on-insider-trading-legislation/665092 We’ve Got To Talk David French Episode https://youtu.be/JQSKSrQfw78?si=G2PBvuhr0fHAF9sY Future Caucus (formerly Millennial Action Project) https://futurecaucus.org/ Congressional Future Caucus https://futurecaucus.org/future-caucus/congressional-future-caucus/ How America Got Mean (David Brooks, The Atlantic) https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2023/09/us-culture-moral-education-formation/674765/ We’ve Got To Talk Episode (David Brooks Article) https://youtu.be/qydEt3wbPXQ?si=DYQlKg1y4b1UlS6Q David Brooks: How America Recovers from All This (Yale Jackson School event page) https://events.jackson.yale.edu/event/david-brooks-yale-conversations-040726 David Brooks: How America Recovers from All This (video) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YRTSA9q-6M James Talarico (official site) https://jamestalarico.com/ In Israel, Rahm Emanuel Calls for End of Unconditional U.S. Support (NYT) https://www.nytimes.com/2026/07/07/us/politics/rahm-emanuel-speech-israel.html Congress Schedule Opinion https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/388007-lawmakers-to-help-repair-our-polarized-congress-make-dc-your-home/ Congress Schedule https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/TE10041?utm_source= We’ve Got To Talk Episode Brad Porteus of Bridge Grades ttps://youtu.be/Pq5BYIgxJvw?si=DzRop48P67TlNGH_ Bridge Grades (Brad Porteus) – About https://www.bridgegrades.org/about Bridge Grades (main site) https://www.bridgegrades.org/ We’ve Got To Talk Tipping and Rating Episode: https://youtu.be/Ou1CVCXOaXo?si=atxMn3OKK0GUFFIA NYTimes Bruce Feiler Article: https://www.nytimes.com/2026/05/15/opinion/ritual-connection-meaning-community.html?unlocked_article_code=1.zVA.mxMX.F7_TlmWqQfUX&smid=url-share What Is an Honor Walk (organ donation tradition, Lifebanc) https://www.lifebanc.org/community-partners/hospitals-medical-professionals/the-hoor-walk/ Our Website: https://www.wevegottotalk.com/ LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk On Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701 On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2 How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/