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Send us Fan Mail 62. Kathy Baldock (Evangelical) | The 1946 Bible Mistranslation Behind Anti-Gay Theology What if one of Christianity’s most consequential teachings about LGBTQ people was built on a translation mistake? Plant sex. A bizarre U.S. Navy sting operation. Nazis burning decades of sexuality research. And a Bible translation decision in 1946 that would reverberate for generations. What could those things possibly have in common? Kathy Baldock is an evangelical Christian, author, researcher, LGBTQ advocate, founder of CanyonWalker Connections, and one of the researchers featured in the documentary 1946: The Mistranslation That Shifted Culture. Her new book, Forging a Sacred Weapon, traces 5,000 years of history to ask a deceptively simple question: How did the word “homosexual” end up in the Bible? Kathy takes us from ancient sexual ethics and the medieval Church to emerging sexuality research, the U.S. military, McCarthyism, Bible publishing and the archives at Yale—where researchers uncovered correspondence showing that the head of the Revised Standard Version translation team acknowledged a problem with the translation. The RSV eventually changed it. But by then, the language had spread. We explore how American ideas about homosexuality traveled into Bible translations around the world, why Kathy believes both conservative and progressive Christians sometimes get the 1946 story wrong, and what pastors, parents and LGBTQ Christians need to understand now. And Kathy has a message for queer people who have been told they must choose between their faith and who they are: The door to God is open. ⚠️ CONTENT NOTE: This episode includes discussion of suicide, sex and sexuality. Not for littles.  Help is available Speak with someone today 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline Languages: English, Spanish Hours: 24/7 ✨ GUEST + FOLLOW Kathy Baldock — IG: @kathyvbaldock Founder, CanyonWalker Connections 📚 MENTIONED + RESOURCES Forging a Sacred Weapon: The 1946 Bible Mistranslation Behind Anti-Gay Theology — Kathy Baldock - get it on The Sacred Slope Book Reccos List: https://bookshop.org/shop/thesacredslope Walking the Bridgeless Canyon — Kathy Baldock 1946: The Mistranslation That Shifted Culture — IG: @1946themovie Sharon “Rocky” Roggio — Director of 1946 — IG: @1946themovie Timothy Schraeder Rodriguez IG: @timothysrodriguez book Conversion Therapy Dropout https://bookshop.org/shop/thesacredslope 🎬 Watch 1946: 1946themovie.com 📚 Kathy + CanyonWalker: canyonwalkerconnections.com ⛪ THE SACRED SLOPE LABS Three virtual labs, 2 options per lab, open to everyone, everywhere. LAB 1: I Thought This Was Christianity 📅 October 22 & 23 LAB 2: Who Formed Us? 📅 November 5 & 6 LAB 3: Speaking Across the Faith Divide 📅 November 12 & 13 🎟️ Register: thesacredslope.com ⏱️ EPISODE CHAPTERS 00:00 — Can You Be Queer & Christian? 05:07 — Plant Sex, Nazis & a 1946 Bible 09:56 — Meet Kathy Baldock 17:37 — 5,000 Years of Sexuality & Christianity 26:17 — What Really Happened With the RSV? 37:16 — When the Translators Realized the Problem 45:21 — The Dutch & German Bibles 52:47 — Kathy’s Message to LGBTQ Christians 57:16 — Sex, Pleasure & the Medieval Church 59:03 — The Wild History of Masturbation 1:05:11 — The U.S. Navy Sex Sting 1:11:18 — Why Churches Struggle to Change 1:17:14 — Where Kathy Finds Hope #KathyBaldock #1946TheMovie #LGBTQChristian #BibleTranslation #QueerChristian #Deconstruction Support the show About The Sacred Slope  thesacredslope.com Where the slippery slope becomes sacred ground. For the spiritually tender - raised in or rooted in Christianity. Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion. 🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify      LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere      FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky) 🔗 Connect 🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected] 🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿 Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

Send us Fan Mail 61. Lisa Sharon Harper (Episcopal) | White Supremacy, Evangelicalism & Decolonizing Christianity What if the Christianity many Americans are deconstructing isn’t Christianity itself-but a version shaped by whiteness, empire, and power? Lisa Sharon Harper is a public theologian, author, activist, playwright, founder and president of FreedomRoad, and is currently discerning ordination in the Episcopal Church. Lisa traces the complicated history of American evangelicalism—from the Black church and abolitionist movements to fundamentalism, the Southern Baptist Convention, segregation, and the modern political power of white evangelicalism. Then she challenges one of the central ideas of modern faith deconstruction: Christianity was never a white faith. Jesus and the earliest Christians emerged from colonized people in the ancient Near East. Lisa argues that abandoning Christianity because of white Christian racism can leave the supremacy of Western Christianity itself uninterrogated. She doesn’t call us to deconstruct Christianity. She calls us to decolonize it. We explore Acts 2, implicit bias, the Black church, fundamentalism, Christian nationalism, religious certainty-and what happens when we rediscover Jesus outside the version of Christianity we inherited. Lisa leaves us with three words: “Seek brown Jesus.” ✨ GUEST + FOLLOW Lisa Sharon Harper (Episcopal)  IG: @lisasharper Founder & President, FreedomRoad @freedomroad.us 📚 MENTIONED + RESOURCES Christena Cleveland (PhD) — IG: @christenacleveland Rev. Dr. David P. Gushee — IG: @d_pgushee Rev. Dr. Kelly Brown Douglas — IG: @revdrkbd Sojourners — Independent Christian magazine exploring faith, culture, politics & social justice. 📖 Lisa’s 2015 essay that opens this episode: “Four Easy Ways to Be a White Supremacist” https://sojo.net/magazine/septemberoctober-2015/four-easy-ways-be-white-supremacist 📰 Explore Sojourners: @sojogram https://sojo.net ⛪ THE SACRED SLOPE LABS Three virtual labs, 2 options per lab, open to everyone, everywhere. Attend one, two, or all three. LAB 1: I Thought This Was Christianity 📅 October 22 & 23 LAB 2: Who Formed Us? 📅 November 5 & 6 LAB 3: Speaking Across the Faith Divide 📅 November 12 & 13 🎟️ Register: thesacredslope.com 🥚 Listen all the way through for an Easter egg revealing our first guest speaker for Lab 1. ⏱️ EPISODE CHAPTERS 02:42 — White Supremacy: Explicit vs. Implicit Bias 09:56 — Meet Lisa Sharon Harper 12:23 — PhD in Womanist Ethics 18:56 — Evangelical ≠ Republican or Democrat 21:48 — What Does “Evangelical” Mean? 28:00 — The Black Church & Second Great Awakening 32:43 — Slaveholder Faith & American Christianity 36:38 — What’s Behind “Non-Denominational”? 41:36 — Should We Save Evangelicalism? 44:00 — Fundamentalism & Certainty 45:23 — What Happens After Deconstruction? 47:06 — Christianity Was Never a White Faith 52:51 — Decolonizing Acts 2 55:47 — “I’m Not for Deconstructing. I’m for Decolonizing.” 57:13 — “Seek Brown Jesus” 57:20 — Sacred Slope Labs + Easter Egg #LisaSharonHarper #DecolonizingChristianity #Deconstruction #Evangelicalism #ChristianNationalism  Support the show About The Sacred Slope  thesacredslope.com Where the slippery slope becomes sacred ground. For the spiritually tender - raised in or rooted in Christianity. Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion. 🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify      LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere      FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky) 🔗 Connect 🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected] 🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿 Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

Send us Fan Mail 60. Raised Pentecostal vs. United Methodist | Deconstruction, Doubt & Finding God Again with Colten Barnaby & Rev. Dr. S.C. Williams What happens when two Christians grow up in almost completely different versions of Christianity? Colten Barnaby grew up in a strict Oneness Holiness Pentecostal world, speaking in tongues at five years old and believing other Christians still needed to be saved. Rev. Dr. S.C. Williams grew up United Methodist, where he was encouraged to question, evolution wasn’t controversial, hell was rarely discussed, and faith was rooted more in grace than fear. Same Christianity? That question opens a fascinating conversation about Pentecostalism, United Methodism, deconstruction, religious trauma, progressive Christianity, evolution, scripture, doubt, Christian nationalism—and whether questioning your faith can actually bring you closer to God. Colten shares how studying theology and church history at Oral Roberts University complicated the certainty he grew up with. Instead of atheist professors destroying his faith, he encountered serious Christians who accepted evolution, disagreed theologically, and still respected one another. Today, Colten sometimes describes himself with a sentence that would have terrified his younger self: “I’m a Christian who doesn’t believe in God.” What does that even mean? Together, Colten and S.C. explore what remains when certainty disappears—and why seeking truth may matter more than protecting the theological system you inherited. They also discuss religious trauma, LGBTQ+ inclusion, harmful theology, the Wesleyan Quadrilateral, Christian nationalism, debating Doug Wilson, progressive Christianity, and one of the hardest questions for people rebuilding faith: How do you know who to trust again? And for anyone afraid deconstruction will lead them away from God: Maybe God is on the other side of your questions too. ✨ GUESTS + FOLLOW Colten Barnaby — Christian thinker and creator exploring theology, politics, philosophy, and faith after certainty. Rev. Dr. S.C. Williams — United Methodist pastor and creator exploring scripture, theology, church history, and harmful Christian teachings. 📚 MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE Brian Recker — IG: @berecker Tim Whitaker / The New Evangelicals — IG: @thenewevangelicals @timwhitakerspeaks Tripp Fuller — IG: @trippfuller Homebrewed Christianity — IG: @theologynerd Theology Beer Camp — IG: @theologybeercamp April Ajoy — IG: @aprilajoy 🍺 THEOLOGY BEER CAMP Alexis, Colten, Tripp Fuller, and other Sacred Slope friends are headed to Theology Beer Camp in Kansas City, Missouri, October 8–10, 2026—a gathering for people willing to ask big questions about God, Christianity, theology, culture, and the world without pretending they already have all the answers. In-person tickets are sold out, but virtual tickets are still available at theologybeer.camp. ⏱️ EPISODE CHAPTERS 07:29 — Meet Colten Barnaby & Rev. Dr. S.C. Williams 08:24 — Growing Up Oneness Pentecostal 11:45 — When Education Complicates Your Faith 14:20 — Pentecostal vs. United Methodist Christianity 17:15 — Religious Trauma & What the Church Owes People 19:02 — “I’m a Christian Who Doesn’t Believe in God” 23:48 — What Is God? 25:20 — Progressive Christianity & Questions 29:30 — Debating Doug Wilson 33:54 — Why S.C. Williams Does Theology Online 35:34 — Recognizing Harmful Theology 36:42 — Apostasy, Fear & Religious Trauma 43:00 — LGBTQ+ Inclusion & Reading the Bible Differently 44:35 — Reinterpreting Scripture 47:07 — Why Church Tradition Matters 51:34 — Doubt, Truth & Seeking God 01:02:40 — What Deconstruction Actually Looks Like 01:03:24 — Historical Context Changes Theology 01:06:04 — The Wesleyan Quadrilateral 01:09:49 — Reading Scripture Through Jesus 01:16:26 — Who Can You Trust After Religious Trauma? 01:21:40 — Can Doubt Bring You Closer to God? #Deconstruction #ProgressiveChristianity #Pentecostal #UnitedMethodist #ReligiousTrauma #FaithAndDoubt #Exvangelical #Christianity #TheSacredSlope Support the show About The Sacred Slope  thesacredslope.com Where the slippery slope becomes sacred ground. For the spiritually tender - raised in or rooted in Christianity. Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion. 🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify      LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere      FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky) 🔗 Connect 🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected] 🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿 Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

Send us Fan Mail 59. Theology Beer Camp Preview (Ilia Delio, Tripp Fuller, Sarah Heath & Josh Patterson) | We Shocked a Theologian With What We Were Taught About Christianity What happens when you tell a theologian what millions of American evangelicals were taught they had to believe in order to be Christian? Ilia Delio was shocked. She's not the only one. I have done this exercise with several pastors, theologians, scholars around the world outside of conservative fundamentalism and they are almost all shocked. And those in fundamentalism are shocked at the responses outside of conservative evangelicalism. So what's going on here?  In this special Theology Beer Camp preview, Ilia Delio, Tripp Fuller, Sarah Heath, and Josh Patterson join Alexis Rice for a conversation about evangelical fundamentalism, deconstruction, Christian nationalism, science, evolution, curiosity, AI, and what happens when faith becomes bigger than the beliefs we inherited. The conversation begins with a simple experiment: Put your finger down if you were taught… That the snake in Genesis was a literal talking snake. That you needed to pray the sinner’s prayer to escape eternal conscious torment in hell. That the rapture could happen at any moment. That you cannot be gay and Christian. That women cannot be pastors. That evolution contradicts the Bible. That questioning any of this meant questioning God. Alexis and Josh put every finger down. Ilia, Tripp, and Sarah largely don’t. Ilia’s reaction? “My God… I can’t believe you guys really followed that stuff.” And then comes the question underneath this entire episode: “Is this stuff still going on?” Yes. And that disconnect matters. Together, they explore how Christians from different traditions can inherit radically different understandings of the same faith—and why people leaving conservative evangelicalism may have no idea that other faithful expressions of Christianity have been here all along. Tripp reflects on how 9/11, Islamophobia, war, and militaristic nationalism changed his relationship with the Christian world around him. Sarah shares what happened when she moved from a questioning Christian home in Canada into conservative evangelical culture in the American South—and why curiosity may be one of the most important things Christians can offer one another. Josh talks about letting go of theological finality and embracing the idea that being human means always becoming. And Ilia explores evolution, science, inner freedom, AI, and a God she understands not as a power over us, but as a presence and embrace within us. By the end, everyone has all ten fingers back up. They still don’t believe exactly the same things. They don’t need to. Because maybe changing your theology doesn’t mean losing your faith. Maybe asking questions isn’t something Christianity needs to fear. And maybe people who thought they had to choose between the Christianity they inherited and no Christianity at all need to hear something much simpler: Christianity is bigger than what you were taught. ✨ GUESTS + FOLLOW Ilia Delio Franciscan sister, theologian, scientist, and founder of the Center for Christogenesis IG: @centerforchristogenesis Tripp Fuller Theologian, author, host of Homebrewed Christianity, and founder of Theology Beer Camp IG: @trippfuller Homebrewed Christianity: @theologynerd Theology Beer Camp: @theologybeercamp Sarah Heath United Methodist pastor, author, speaker, creator, and professional asker of good questions IG: @revsarahheath Josh Patterson Theologian, podcaster, and host of (Re)thinking Faith Podcast IG: @rethinking_faith 🍺 THEOLOGY BEER CAMP Alexis, Ilia, Tripp, Sarah, and Josh are headed to Theology Beer Camp in Kansas City, Missouri, October 8–10, 2026—a gathering for people willing to ask big questions about God, Christianity, culture, science, and the world without pretending they already have all the answers. In-person tickets are sold out, but virtual tickets are still available at theologybeer.camp. 📚 MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE Andrew Whitehead — @andrewwhitehead Sociologist and author whose work examines Christian nationalism in the United States. ⏱️ EPISODE CHAPTERS 06:05 — The Experiment: Were We Even Taught the Same Christianity? 09:58 — Ilia’s Reaction: “You Really Followed That Stuff?” 11:50 — Growing Up Christian in Very Different Worlds 14:33 — When Evangelicalism Becomes the Only Christianity You Know 15:20 — Can Christians Believe Differently and Still Belong? 17:55 — Is God Bigger Than Our Beliefs? 19:59 — Evolution, Genesis & Faith 22:28 — What Happens to Faith After Deconstruction? 24:38 — Curiosity, Freedom & Making Room for Each Other 27:27 — AI, Christianity & What It Means to Be Human 30:02 — Can Science and Religion Learn to Talk to Each Other? 31:21 — After Deconstruction: What Do We Believe Now? #TheologyBeerCamp #IliaDelio #TrippFuller #SarahHeath #JoshPatterson #Deconstruction #ProgressiveChristianity #FaithAndDoubt #ChristianNationalism #ScienceAndReligion #TheSacredSlope Support the show About The Sacred Slope  thesacredslope.com Where the slippery slope becomes sacred ground. For the spiritually tender - raised in or rooted in Christianity. Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion. 🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify      LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere      FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky) 🔗 Connect 🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected] 🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿 Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

Send us Fan Mail 58. Interfaith Comedy (Yasmin Elhady, Carmiya Weinraub & PT Bratton) | A Muslim, a Jew, and Two Christians Walk Into a Podcast Comedians Yasmin Elhady, Carmiya Weinraub, and P. T. Bratton join Alexis Rice for an interfaith conversation about faith, comedy, stereotypes, friendship, and the questions people are often too nervous to ask out loud. Together, they are part of Interfaith Comedy, a nationally touring project that brings performers of different faith traditions together to laugh, challenge assumptions, and build real human connection. Carmiya, an observant Jewish comedian and founder of Interfaith Comedy, shares why she wanted Muslim performers in Jewish spaces - and herself in spaces beyond the Jewish community. Yasmin, an Egyptian American Muslim comedian and attorney, reflects on being welcomed to the United States as an asylum seeker by Catholic charities and on why faith, humility, pain, and comedy belong together. P. T., a Christian comedian, former pastor, and military veteran, brings humor and insight about Christian culture, church guilt, and the many ways people interpret the same sacred text. This conversation is not about convincing everyone to believe the same thing. It is about what happens when we stop talking about one another and start talking with one another. People become much harder to fear - and harder to hate - up close. ✨ Guests + Upcoming Shows Yasmin Elhady @yasminelhahahady  Egyptian American comedian, attorney, speaker, and storyteller  Known for Hulu’s Muslim Matchmaker and NBC’s True Story with Ed Helms and Randall Park Performed at the Kennedy Center Upcoming: Not Exactly a Nun at Woolly Mammoth Theatre Company in Washington, D.C., beginning September 25 Website + tickets | Woolly Mammoth Theatre Company Carmiya Weinraub @carmiya.w Observant Jewish comedian, producer, mother of five, and founder of Interfaith Comedy @interfaith.comedy. Creator of a nationally touring comedy project connecting audiences across faith traditions Interfaith Comedy PT Bratton @ptbrattoncomedy Comedian, storyteller, military veteran, and former pastor Has performed nationally, from comedy clubs to the Kennedy Center and the White House Website + upcoming shows #InterfaithComedy #YasminElhady #CarmiyaWeinraub #PTBratton #Interfaith #FaithAndComedy #TheSacredSlope Support the show About The Sacred Slope  thesacredslope.com Where the slippery slope becomes sacred ground. For the spiritually tender - raised in or rooted in Christianity. Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion. 🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify      LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere      FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky) 🔗 Connect 🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected] 🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿 Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

Send us Fan Mail 57. Matthew Boedy (Baptist) | The Seven Mountains Mandate: Exposing the Dangerous Plan to Christianize America and Destroy Democracy What if something many Christians dismiss as fringe is actually an organized framework for changing American culture? Religion. Family. Education. Government and military. Media. Arts and entertainment. Business. These are the Seven Mountains. Dr. Matthew Boedy, Baptist, professor, scholar of religious rhetoric and Christian nationalism, and author of The Seven Mountains Mandate, joins Alexis Rice to explain the history of the Seven Mountains Mandate and why he believes this movement matters far beyond conservative evangelicalism. Alexis grew up in evangelical Christianity. She knew about Christian schools, Christian media, Christian politics, Campus Crusade, apologetics and the culture wars. But she had never heard anyone explain that there were seven specific areas of culture Christians were supposed to influence or “take.” Matthew traces the framework back to Bill Bright of Campus Crusade for Christ and Lauren Cunningham of Youth With A Mission, and explains the later influence of Lance Wallnau. They talk about Turning Point USA, Project 2025, public schools, the Ten Commandments, spiritual warfare, pastors and politics, “marketplace apostles,” conspiracy thinking, social media, Christian media, and the difference between sharing your faith and seeking political or cultural power. But this conversation is also about Christianity itself. Matthew is Christian. Alexis is Christian. And the Christianity being discussed here is not all Christianity. What happens when one expression of Christianity becomes so visible that people begin confusing it with Christianity itself? And what responsibility do pastors, scholars, professors and other Christians have to make the larger Christian tradition visible? CHAPTERS 02:56 Introduction 04:12 What Is the Seven Mountains Mandate? 08:37 Understanding Christian Nationalism 17:39 How Large Is This Movement? 23:10 The Global Movement 27:10 Spiritual Warfare & Strategy 30:06 Which Christianity? 32:36 Media & Counterpoints 35:18 Mountain 1: Education 41:41 Ten Commandments in Schools 44:54 The California Narrative 47:21 Mountain 2: Government 49:58 Mountain 3: Religion 53:36 Mountain 4: Family 01:01:51 Mountain 5: Business 01:05:15 Mountain 6: Media 01:09:40 Mountain 7: Arts & Entertainment 01:13:11 Hope & What Comes Next ✨ Guest + Book Matthew Boedy The Seven Mountains Mandate: Exposing the Dangerous Plan to Christianize America and Destroy Democracy  https://bookshop.org/shop/thesacredslope Professor, University of North Georgia Westminster John Knox Press Thanks to @aprilajoy, author of Star-Spangled Jesus , who makes a cameo in this episode, for alerting me through your book of the Seven Mountains Mandate #MatthewBoedy #SevenMountainsMandate #ChristianNationalism #Christianity  Support the show About The Sacred Slope  thesacredslope.com Where the slippery slope becomes sacred ground. For the spiritually tender - raised in or rooted in Christianity. Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion. 🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify      LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere      FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky) 🔗 Connect 🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected] 🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿 Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

Send us Fan Mail 56. Kristin Kobes Du Mez (Christian) | Live Laugh Love: The Secret History of White Christian Women and the World They Made What if the Christianity you were taught was never the only way to be Christian? For millions of women raised in American evangelicalism, the rules felt inseparable from the faith itself. Be pure. Submit. Don’t question authority. Stay inside the lines. Follow the right leaders. Read the right books. Believe the right things. Shop at the right stores. And if you do it all faithfully enough, you’ll be safe, happy, and blessed. But who made those rules? Where did they come from? And what happens when you discover that some of what you were taught as timeless biblical truth has a history? Kristin Kobes Du Mez, historian, scholar, and New York Times bestselling author of Jesus and John Wayne, joins Alexis Rice to uncover that history in her new book, Live Laugh Love: The Secret History of White Christian Women and the World They Made. For women formed by evangelical Christianity, this one may feel deeply personal. Purity culture. Biblical womanhood. Submission. Christian bookstores. Megachurches. Beth Moore Bible studies. Political power. Christian nationalism. And the promise underneath so much of it: follow the rules and you will be safe, prosperous, and happy. But Kristin’s history reveals something many women were never taught. Christian women have also challenged patriarchy, fought for women’s rights, preached, led, questioned authority, and imagined faithful Christianity differently. Together they explore: • How evangelicalism became a self-contained cultural ecosystem • The surprising history of Christian feminism • Purity culture, shame & the “sexual prosperity gospel” • Christian consumer culture, belonging & control • Why questioning the system felt like questioning Christianity • Beth Moore, abuse, Trump & the cost of speaking out • Gender, politics, power & Christian nationalism • Rachel Held Evans, Sarah Bessey & women imagining another way • Why seeing the system clearly is the first step toward changing it Kristin is careful to distinguish this history from all Christianity or even all evangelicalism. There have always been dissenters. “There were always people inside the system who began to see the system for what it was.” What becomes possible when you realize the Christianity you inherited is not the only Christianity available to you? ✨ Guest + Books • Kristin Kobes Du Mez, @kkdumez • Live Laugh Love: The Secret History of White Christian Women and the World They Made • Jesus and John Wayne • A New Gospel for Women • Publisher: Liveright Publishing, an imprint of W. W. Norton & Company 📚 People, Books & Resources Mentioned • Beth Moore, @bethmoorelpm • Rachel Held Evans (1981–2019) @rachelheldevans, Evolving in Monkey Town; A Year of Biblical Womanhood • Sarah Bessey, @sarahbessey, Jesus Feminist • Jen Hatmaker, @jenhatmaker • Amy Grant, @amygrantofficial • LifeWay Christian Resources, @lifeway 05:05 Introduction to the Sacred Slope 06:54 Expanding the Christian Faith 08:44 Understanding Christian Nationalism 09:11 The Movement of Women in Christianity 10:00 Introduction to Kristen Kobes Du Mez and Her Work 11:52 The Impact of 'Jesus and John Wayne' and Cultural Phenomenon 14:53 Exploring White Evangelical Womanhood and Purity Culture 17:46 The Complexity of Evangelicalism and Dissenting Voices 20:35 Historical Context of Christian Women's Involvement in Feminism 23:33 The Closed System of Evangelical Culture 25:59 Personal Reflections on Faith and Regret 28:25 Understanding Power Dynamics in Evangelicalism 31:26 The Role of Women in Shaping Evangelical History 33:51 Concluding Thoughts on the Future of Christianity 41:03 The Totalizing System of Evangelicalism 44:49 Purity Culture and Its Impact 53:13 Beth Moore: A Voice of Change 01:04:01 Hope and Courage in the Face of Adversity 01:15:17 Introduction to The Sacred Slope 01:15:17 Nomination Process for Clergy Members #KristinKobesDuMez #LiveLaughLove #Christianity #Evangelicalism #Deconstruction #ChristianNationalism #PurityCulture #WomenInChurch Support the show About The Sacred Slope  thesacredslope.com Where the slippery slope becomes sacred ground. For the spiritually tender - raised in or rooted in Christianity. Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion. 🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify      LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere      FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky) 🔗 Connect 🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected] 🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿 Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

Send us Fan Mail 55. Birdy Mae (Southern Baptist) — When Evangelical Christianity Stops Feeling Like Home Birdy Mae knew how to be a good Southern Baptist woman. Know the Bible. Serve constantly. Believe the right things. Raise your kids the right way. And be certain. “I was desperate to be like her. Because I thought she knew Jesus.” Eventually, Birdy became her. Then the certainty started cracking. Women. LGBTQ+ Christians. Church abuse. Race. Political power. Christian nationalism. And finally, January 6. For women raised inside conservative evangelical Christianity who still love Jesus but increasingly wonder, How did the faith that formed me become something I barely recognize?—this conversation will feel familiar. Birdy joins Alexis Rice for a funny, vulnerable conversation about what happens when changing your mind costs you relationships, certainty, and belonging—but not Jesus. Together they explore: • Becoming the “good Christian woman” she thought she had to be • Hell houses, purity culture & fear-based Christianity • Beth Moore, women preaching & cracks in Southern Baptist certainty • Church abuse scandals & institutional power • Realizing she had been wrong about LGBTQ+ Christians • Travel & discovering Christianity beyond an American lens • January 6 and Birdy’s breaking point • Christian nationalism & political identity • Women, gender roles & what younger women are inheriting • Losing relationships after publicly changing her mind • Why questioning your faith doesn’t have to mean losing Jesus • Why Birdy still attends a Southern Baptist church Birdy calls her journey “untangling”—pulling the threads of Jesus away from the rules of religion. Can you grieve what your Christian world has become without giving up the Jesus you found there? “You have the right to question everything.” ✨ Guest • Birdy Mae (Mary) — Southern Baptist storyteller & creator — @birdymaesays • Substack: The Back Row 📚 Books, People & Resources Mentioned • Kristin Kobes Du Mez — @kkdumez — Live Laugh Love: The Secret History of White Christian Women and the World They Made; Jesus and John Wayne • Pete Enns — @peteenns — The Sin of Certainty; The Bible Tells Me So • Beth Allison Barr — @bethallisonbarr — The Making of Biblical Womanhood • Rachel Held Evans — @rachelheldevans — A Year of Biblical Womanhood • Sarah Bessey — @sarahbessey — Field Notes for the Wilderness / Braving the Wilderness of Faith • Beth Moore — @bethmoorelpm • Andrew Whitehead — @ndrewwhitehead — American Idolatry • April Ajoy — @aprilajoy — Star-Spangled Jesus • Cody Deese — @codydeese My Internal Universe • Kathy Baldock — @forgingasacredweapon1946 Forging a Sacred Weapon • 1946: The Mistranslation That Shifted Culture — @1946themovie • Oprah Winfrey — @oprah 📺 Movies, TV & Culture Mentioned • The Handmaid’s Tale — @handmaidsonhulu • The Righteous Gemstones — @HBO @therighteousgemstones  • Mrs. America — FX @ mrsamericafx #Christianity #Deconstruction #Evangelicalism #SouthernBaptist #ChristianNationalism #ChurchHurt #WomenInChurch #LGBTQChristians #Faith Support the show About The Sacred Slope  thesacredslope.com Where the slippery slope becomes sacred ground. For the spiritually tender - raised in or rooted in Christianity. Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion. 🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify      LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere      FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky) 🔗 Connect 🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected] 🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿 Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

Send us Fan Mail 54. Father Dan Storrs (Old Roman Catholic) When Following Jesus Makes You the 'Wrong Kind of Christian' What happens when a gay Catholic priest keeps following Jesus - even after Christians tell him he doesn’t belong? Father Dan Storrs is an Old Roman Catholic priest whose journey has taken him through the Assemblies of God, the Baptist church, Eastern Orthodoxy, and eventually the Society of Mercy. And after all of that? “My journey has made me certain that certainty is the opposite of faith.” Father Dan joins Alexis Rice for a conversation about what happens when following Jesus means refusing the boundaries religious institutions have drawn around who belongs. Together they explore: • Why becoming more rooted in ancient Christianity made Father Dan more committed to mercy and inclusion - not less • Being gay, married, and called to the priesthood • What Protestants often misunderstand about Catholicism • Old Roman Catholicism and how it differs from Roman Catholicism • Why Father Dan believes the sacraments are for everyone • Mary, the Eucharist, and finding Jesus again after church hurt • Creating spiritual community for LGBTQ+ people wounded by churches • Why progressive Christian voices need to be more visible • His work with Endless Mountains Pride and Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro’s LGBTQ+ Advisory Commission • Why clergy must stand beside survivors of sexual violence and abuse • What following Jesus this way has cost him This isn’t a conversation about deciding whether Catholics or Protestants have Christianity right. It’s an invitation to ask: What beauty might we have missed because we were taught to be suspicious of someone else’s way of following Jesus? As Father Dan says, “If Jesus could make space for Judas, then we can make space for each other.” ✨ Guest • Father Dan Storrs - Old Roman Catholic priest, Society of Mercy; Pastor, Holy Name of Mary Catholic Chapel; President, Endless Mountains Pride • Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, YouTube: @FatherDanStorrs ⛪ Church & Organizations • Holy Name of Mary Catholic Chapel - Facebook & YouTube: @holynamemary • Society of Mercy • Endless Mountains Pride • Pennsylvania Governor’s Advisory Commission on LGBTQ Affairs - @GovernorShapiro • Abuse & Rape Crisis Center of Bradford County ⚠️ Content Note This episode includes discussion of sexual assault, abuse, church trauma, and survivor advocacy. If you or someone you know has experienced sexual assault or abuse, RAINN’s National Sexual Assault Hotline provides free, confidential support 24/7: • Call 800-656-HOPE (4673) • Text HOPE to 64673 • RAINN National Sexual Assault Hotline ⏱️ Chapters 00:00 Ministry for people the Church left behind 07:06 Meet Father Dan Storrs 15:28 “Certainty is the opposite of faith” 20:10 Following Jesus into unexpected places 26:33 Gay, Catholic & making room for everyone 30:02 Finding home in Catholicism 35:56 What is Old Roman Catholicism? 42:49 Communion, Utrecht & Alexis’s Catholic surprise 47:20 Why inclusive priests need to be online 53:42 Mary, church hurt & finding Jesus again 57:40 LGBTQ+ advocacy & Governor Shapiro’s commission 1:06:02 Standing with survivors of sexual violence 1:12:04 “Following Jesus has cost me everything” 1:15:44 A prayer for people wounded by the Church 1:22:07 Antiquing, running & Father Dan beyond ministry #Christianity #Catholic #OldRomanCatholic #LGBTQChristians #GayChristian #ProgressiveChristianity #ChurchHurt #Deconstruction #Exvangelical #Faith Support the show About The Sacred Slope  thesacredslope.com Where the slippery slope becomes sacred ground. For the spiritually tender - raised in or rooted in Christianity. Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion. 🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify      LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere      FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky) 🔗 Connect 🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected] 🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿 Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

Send us Fan Mail 53. Dr. Samantha Bise (Lutheran, ELCA) Tongue in Church, a Liberating Primer on Christian Vocabulary What if the Christian words you have heard your entire life do not mean exactly what you were taught? Dr. Samantha Bise joins Alexis Rice to unpack the history, translation, culture, and power hiding inside familiar words like virgin, salvation, gospel, Savior, and born again. An author, educator, researcher, and adult convert to Christianity, Samantha studies how language shapes belief. Her new book, Tongue in Church: A Liberating Primer on Christian Vocabulary, asks Christians to slow down and learn what our own words have meant across thousands of years, cultures, empires, and translations. Together they explore: • How “young woman” became “virgin” in the story of Mary • Why questioning Mary’s virginity does not have to unravel your faith • How salvation became primarily about escaping hell, even though its biblical roots include healing, liberation, safety, and freedom from oppression • Why Lord, Savior, Son of God, and gospel were politically charged words in the Roman Empire • How “born again” became an identity marker in American evangelicalism • What mission trips can teach us about Christianity, colonization, and conversion • Why churches that control women often disregard the earth too • The difference between faith that manipulates through fear and faith that makes room for mystery • Why “the Bible is clear” is rarely as clear as people claim Samantha also shares her unexpected path from outspoken atheist to ELCA Lutheran, the church that fed Appalachian Trail hikers without trying to convert them, and the painful altar call at her grandmother’s funeral that inspired this book. This is not a conversation about tearing down scripture. It is an invitation to take scripture and its language seriously, loosen our grip on false certainty, and discover a faith spacious enough for questions. As Samantha says, “There’s not one pure Christianity.” From the beginning, Christians have debated, negotiated, wrestled, and wondered. That wrestling is part of the tradition. ✨ Guest • Dr. Samantha Bise: Author, educator, researcher, professor, co-host of Church Chatter, and ELCA Lutheran | IG: @dr.bise 📚 Book & Resources Mentioned • Tongue in Church: A Liberating Primer on Christian Vocabulary by Dr. Samantha Bise | @thepilgrimpress https://thepilgrimpress.com/products/tongue-in-church-a-liberating-primer-on-christian-vocabulary • Evangelical Lutheran Church in America @elca • The Sin of Certainty by Pete Enns @peteenns • Don’t Sleep, There Are Snakes by Daniel Everett • Marcus Borg on salvation #TongueInChurch #Christianity #Deconstruction #Exvangelical #ProgressiveChristianity #Bible #ELCA #Faith Support the show About The Sacred Slope  thesacredslope.com Where the slippery slope becomes sacred ground. For the spiritually tender - raised in or rooted in Christianity. Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion. 🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify      LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere      FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky) 🔗 Connect 🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected] 🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿 Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

Send us Fan Mail 52. A Different Side of Miss Peppermint: Growing Up in Church, Activism & Christian Nationalism’s Impact on the Trans Community What changes when we simply listen? In this moment in history, listening and empathy are essential. Miss Peppermint joins Alexis Rice for a joyful, vulnerable conversation about faith, storytelling, tea, Christian nationalism, and what the trans community needs from allies now. Raised in Presbyterian and Southern Baptist churches, Miss Peppermint remembers the music and community, as well as anti-LGBTQ teachings from the pulpit. Though she is no longer a practicing Christian, she explains why she chose this conversation. Together they explore: • How anti-LGBTQ theology affects queer and trans people • How Christian nationalism weaponizes faith, fear, power, and violence • What it means for a church to be truly open and affirming • Why rainbow branding and shared identity are not enough • Housing, healthcare, food, safety, employment, and workplace protections • Why churches, labor movements, and LGBTQ+ communities should organize together • Drag Race, Broadway, Survival of the Thickest, Love Is Blind, scary movies, sports, and mint chocolate chip ice cream She also shares the story behind Transcendence, the color-changing tea she created with @moody.teas. A portion of every purchase supports @transequalitynow and its work for trans rights and essential resources. Transcendence: https://shop.moodyteas.co/shop/transcendence-color-changing-joy-blend-with-miss-peppermint-3415 This conversation does not ask Miss Peppermint to defend her humanity. It makes room for Christians to hear how our faith has affected her and decide what love of neighbor requires from us now. ✨ Guest • Miss Peppermint: Actress, singer, Broadway performer, activist, @glaad and @aclu_nationwide board member, and @nycpride Grand Marshal | IG: @peppermint247 📚 People, Projects & Resources Mentioned • Moody Teas @moody.teas | Advocates for Trans Equality @transequalitynow • John Fugelsang, Separation of Church and Hate @johnfugelsang • Andrew Whitehead, American Idolatry @andrewwhitehead • The Necessary Conversation @thenecessaryconversationpod • Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde @mariannbudde | James Talarico @jamestalarico • Rev. Brandan Robertson, Queer & Christian @brandanrobertson • Timothy Schraeder Rodriguez, Conversion Therapy Dropout @timothy.s.rodriguez • Kathy V. Baldock, Forging a Sacred Weapon @kathyvbaldock • Rocky Roggio, 1946: The Mistranslation That Shifted Culture @1946themovie • Rev. Jim Keat @revjimruns | Riverside Church @riversidenyc • Michelle Buteau @michellebuteau | Netflix @netflix Survival of the Thickest • Lance Bass @lancebass | Joey Fatone @realjoeyfatone | Cocktail Wars @cocktailwarstv • Zohran Mamdani @zohrankmamdani | AOC @aoc | Kristin Chenoweth @kchenoweth | Don Lemon @donlemonofficial • RuPaul’s Drag Race @rupaulsdragrace Footage courtesy of Netflix and E! #MissPeppermint #TransRights #ChristianNationalism #Christianity #Deconstruction #ProgressiveChristianity #LGBTQ Support the show About The Sacred Slope  thesacredslope.com Where the slippery slope becomes sacred ground. For the spiritually tender - raised in or rooted in Christianity. Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion. 🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify      LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere      FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky) 🔗 Connect 🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected] 🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿 Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

Send us Fan Mail 🎙️ 51. Same Faith. Different Beliefs. Still Christian. (Part 2) – Rev. Gerlyn Henry (Anglican, Canada), Pastor Paul Drees (ELCA Lutheran, USA) & Pastor Joe Smith (Post-Evangelical, USA) What were you taught you had to believe in order to be a Christian? And what happened when you started asking questions? In Part 2 of this conversation, Alexis Rice returns with Rev. Gerlyn Henry, Pastor Paul Drees, and Pastor Joe Smith to finish the viral “Put Your Finger Down: Christian Edition” experiment that revealed just how differently Christians can be formed—even while following the same Jesus. This time, the questions move into some of the places where faith, politics, identity, and fear collide. Together they explore: • Abortion, reproductive rights & whether there is one “Christian” position • Evolution, creation & science • The assumption that Christians should vote Republican • Christian nationalism, political power & the American Church • Biblical literalism, inerrancy & how seminaries teach Scripture • What happens when questioning theology costs you relationships • Why doubt may not be the opposite of faith • Purity culture, shame & sexuality • What Christians from different traditions can learn from one another Joe shares what happened when he began publicly questioning biblical inerrancy—and friendships with people he had loved for years simply disappeared. Paul talks about discovering ideas that challenged his politics not by abandoning the Bible, but by reading it more deeply. And Gerlyn offers another framework entirely: faith was never meant to mean certainty. Doubt, mystery, wrestling, trust, and seeking understanding can all belong inside a faithful Christian life. The conversation ends with a challenge that may be more important than debating what someone believes today: Ask what they were taught. What was church like when they were a child? What were they told they had to believe? What were they afraid to question? What happened if they did? Because if we want to understand the divisions inside Christianity—and the rise of Christian nationalism—we need to understand how people were formed. ⛪ Guests • Rev. Gerlyn Henry — Anglican Church of Canada | IG: @gerlynhenry • Pastor Paul Drees — ELCA Lutheran | IG: @pastorpauldrees • Pastor Joe Smith — Post-Evangelical / Disciples of Christ | IG: @therealjoe.smith 📚 People & Resources Mentioned • Andrew Whitehead — American Idolatry | IG: @andrewwhitehead • John Fugelsang | IG: @johnfugelsang • C.S. Lewis • Luther Seminary • Columbia Theological Seminary And yes—if you stay until the end, the pastors reveal their celebrity crushes. 😂 A huge thank you to Pastor Paul Drees, Pastor Joe Smith, and Rev. Gerlyn Henry for the vulnerability, humor, pastoral care, and generosity they brought to this two-part conversation. May we become more curious about one another’s formation—and a little less certain that our version of Christianity is the only one. #Christianity #Deconstruction #ProgressiveChristianity #ChristianNationalism #Faith #ReligiousTrauma #Bible Support the show About The Sacred Slope  thesacredslope.com Where the slippery slope becomes sacred ground. For the spiritually tender - raised in or rooted in Christianity. Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion. 🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify      LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere      FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky) 🔗 Connect 🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected] 🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿 Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

Send us Fan Mail 50. Same Faith. Different Beliefs. Still Christian. (Part 1) – Rev. Gerlyn Henry (Anglican, Canada), Pastor Paul Drees (ELCA Lutheran, USA) & Pastor Joe Smith (Raised Evangelical, USA) What if something you were taught you had to believe to be Christian was something millions of other Christians were never taught at all? That question exploded after a Sacred Slope “Put Your Finger Down: Christian Edition” video reached more than a million views across platforms. The comments were filled with Christians from different traditions essentially asking one another: Wait…you were taught WHAT? So Alexis Rice reunites with Rev. Gerlyn Henry, Pastor Paul Drees, and Pastor Joe Smith for the conversation a two-minute video couldn’t hold. Alexis and Joe were formed in American evangelical and fundamentalist Christianity. Gerlyn is an Anglican priest in Canada. Paul is an ELCA Lutheran pastor in the U.S. They share a faith - but they were formed with remarkably different assumptions about what Christians must believe. In Part One, they compare notes on Genesis and the talking snake, biblical literalism, evolution, the sinner’s prayer, salvation, hell, baptism, confession, grace, and universalism. For Alexis and Joe, some of these beliefs once carried enormous stakes: Believe this. Pray this. Get this right. Your salvation may depend on it. For Gerlyn and Paul, some were never requirements at all. The result isn’t a debate over who is the “right” Christian. It’s an honest, funny, sometimes painful conversation about what happens when we become curious about the Christianity outside the one that formed us - and discover that questioning something we inherited doesn’t necessarily mean abandoning Jesus. Same faith. Different beliefs. Still Christian. 💬 In This Episode • “Wait - you weren’t taught that?” • Genesis, talking snakes & biblical literalism • Creation, evolution & reading Scripture differently • Is the sinner’s prayer required for salvation? • Hell, baptism, confession & grace • Universalism & hopeful universalism • Religious trauma & the fear of questioning • Deconstructing certainty without abandoning Jesus • Saving people from hell vs. bringing heaven to earth • Discovering Christianity beyond the version you inherited ⛪ Meet the Pastors • Rev. Gerlyn Henry - @gerlynhenry - Anglican priest, Canada  • Pastor Paul Drees - @pastorpauldrees - ELCA Lutheran pastor, USA  • Pastor Joe Smith - @therealjoe.smith raised Free Will Baptist/evangelical; Disciples of Christ pastor, USA 📚 People & Resources Mentioned • Pete Enns - @peteenns - The Sin of Certainty • Pastor Meredith Anne Miller - @meredithannemiller - Wonder & Woven • Brian Recker - @berecker - Hell Bent • Bradley Jersak - @bradley.jersak - A More Christlike God • C.S. Lewis - “true myth” • Nadia Bolz-Weber - @sarcasticlutheran • Dolores Williams • Brené Brown - @brenebrown • Church Clarity - @churchclarity • AllianceQ • 1946 @1946themovie 🎧 Part One of a special two-part Sacred Slope conversation. Support the show About The Sacred Slope  thesacredslope.com Where the slippery slope becomes sacred ground. For the spiritually tender - raised in or rooted in Christianity. Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion. 🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify      LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere      FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky) 🔗 Connect 🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected] 🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿 Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

Send us Fan Mail 49. Matthew Paul Turner – (Author, When I Thank God) Giving Our Kids a Faith They Don’t Have to Heal From New York Times bestselling children’s author Matthew Paul Turner joins The Sacred Slope for a conversation about the stories we tell children about God—and the ones many adults are still learning to tell themselves. Alexis and Matthew explore why children don’t get to choose their first picture of God, how children’s books can become unexpected spaces of healing for adults deconstructing harmful theology, and what it means to raise kids with a faith rooted in love, belonging, gratitude, justice, and the teachings of Jesus. Matthew shares the story behind his new book, When I Thank God, illustrated by David Catrow, and why gratitude has remained one of the few spiritual practices that stayed with him through fundamentalism, deconstruction, coming out, and rebuilding his faith. They also talk honestly about Christian nationalism, the Americanization of Christianity, why humility and justice are central to following Jesus, LGBTQ+ inclusion, and what Christians can actually do to make their communities more loving. And Matthew reflects movingly on his friendship with the late Rachel Held Evans, finishing the children’s books she left behind, and why her legacy continues to change lives. 💬 In This Episode • Giving children a picture of God they won’t have to heal from • Why children’s books can help deconstructing adults heal • When I Thank God and gratitude as a spiritual practice • Following Jesus in an age of Christian nationalism • Deconstructing whiteness and Americanized Christianity • Why humility, justice, compassion, and belonging matter • LGBTQ+ inclusion and showing up visibly for your neighbors • The Growing Wall of Love at World Pride Amsterdam • Matthew’s friendship with Rachel Held Evans • Finishing Rachel’s children’s books after her death • What Is God Like? and the upcoming Who Is Jesus? • Rebuilding a Christianity centered on making things better, more hopeful, and more loving 📚 Matthew Paul Turner Matthew is the bestselling author of When God Made You, When God Made Light, You Will Always Belong, and the new When I Thank God. Follow Matthew: @matthewpaulturner 👥 People & Resources Mentioned • Rachel Held Evans – @rachelheldevans • Sarah Bessey – @sarahbessey • Meredith Anne Miller – @meredithannemiller • Rocky Roggio / 1946: The Mistranslation That Shifted Culture – @rockyroggio • Jarko de Witte van Leeuwen / The Growing Wall of Love – @thegrowingwalloflove • David Catrow – @davidcatrow illustrator of When I Thank God • Danny McBride / The Righteous Gemstones @therighteousgemstones 📖 When I Thank God releases August 18 Pre-Order from The Sacred Slope Book Reccos List: https://bookshop.org/shop/thesacredslope Support the show About The Sacred Slope  thesacredslope.com Where the slippery slope becomes sacred ground. For the spiritually tender - raised in or rooted in Christianity. Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion. 🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify      LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere      FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky) 🔗 Connect 🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected] 🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿 Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

Send us Fan Mail 48. John Fugelsang –  (Aspiring Christian) Separation of Church and Hate: Reclaiming Jesus from Christian Nationalism John Fugelsang returns to The Sacred Slope for a deeper conversation about the book Alexis named the very first Sacred Slope Book of the Year: Separation of Church and Hate: A Sane Person’s Guide to Taking Back the Bible from Fundamentalists, Fascists, and Flock-Fleecing Frauds. Together, they explore why so many Christians and non-Christians alike have embraced the book, what it means to distinguish the teachings of Jesus from Christian nationalism, and why reclaiming Christianity from fear, power, and authoritarianism matters now more than ever. John reflects on growing up with faith, writing a New York Times bestselling book that speaks to believers and skeptics alike, and why he believes Jesus remains one of history’s most radically compassionate voices. Alexis and John also discuss biblical literacy, Matthew 25, Christian resistance throughout history, and how ordinary Christians can push back against the weaponization of faith without becoming consumed by hatred themselves. Whether you’re deconstructing, reconstructing, politically exhausted, or simply longing for a Christianity that looks more like Jesus than power, this conversation offers hope, humor, and practical ways to engage difficult conversations with compassion and courage. 📚 Listeners outside the U.S.: Separation of Church and Hate is now available internationally! 💬 In This Episode • Why Separation of Church and Hate became The Sacred Slope’s first Book of the Year • What surprised John most after the book became a New York Times bestseller • Why Christians, atheists, and agnostics are embracing the book • Christianity versus Christian nationalism • Following Jesus versus simply following the Bible • Matthew 25 and the teachings Jesus actually emphasized • Why Jesus challenged power, wealth, and religious coercion • Christian resistance throughout history—from the abolitionists to Dietrich Bonhoeffer and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. • Christian nationalism, fear, power, and authoritarianism • How to respond to difficult conversations using scripture with compassion rather than contempt • Why reclaiming Jesus matters for believers and non-believers alike Congratulations to This Year’s Book of the Year Nominees! 📖 Braving the Truth – @rachelheldevans & @sarahbessey 📖 Hell Bent – @berecker 📖 We Can Be Brave & I Can Learn to Be Brave – Bishop @mariannbudde 📖 Live Laugh Love – @kkdumez 📖 The Small and the Mighty & We Are Mighty – @sharonsaysso 📖 Separation of Church and Hate – @johnfugelsang 📖 American Idolatry – @ndrewwhitehead 📖 Queer & Christian – Rev. @brandanrobertson 📖 Awake – @jenhatmaker 📖 Wonder – Pastor @meredithannemiller 🏆 The Sacred Slope Book of the Year John Fugelsang Separation of Church and Hate Congratulations, @johnfugelsang, and thank you to every author who shared your wisdom with The Sacred Slope community this year. 👥 People & Resources Mentioned • Mayor Zohran Mamdani – @zohrankmamdani & @nycmayor  • Simon Moya-Smith – @simonsaidtakeapic  • Julie Francella – @juliefrancella  • Jordan Klepper – @jordanklepper  • The Daily Show – @thedailyshow Support the show About The Sacred Slope  thesacredslope.com Where the slippery slope becomes sacred ground. For the spiritually tender - raised in or rooted in Christianity. Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion. 🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify      LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere      FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky) 🔗 Connect 🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected] 🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿 Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control