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Nora and Marcus are back in Seattle after Marcus's whirlwind reporting trip to Minneapolis, and what he saw there stayed with him. From vigils and memorial sites honoring Alex Pretti and Renee Good, to organizers building "community protection" in real time (warming stations, escorts, carpools, and mutual aid), Marcus reflects on how grief travels across time and distance, and how solidarity can, too. They talk about what feels different right now: a shift from performative outrage to everyday people asking, "What are you doing?" and then actually doing it. The conversation also zooms out to the bigger picture: state violence, the fragility of billionaire leadership, the stakes for local journalism, and the hard truth that you can't "microwave" a community when the crisis hits. Plus: a little righteous pettiness about the Melania documentary flop, and Nora's eight ounces of joy, which features Ian McKellen bringing Shakespeare to late-night TV as a fierce, immigrant-rights mic drop. Mentioned in the episode:  Common Power | Charles Douglas III | Seattle Indivisible | George Floyd Square | Pastor Sergio Amezcua | Philly's ICE out law | New Mexico ban on detention centers | Minnesota Star Tribune | Melania movie box office failure | Ian McKellan on Late Show with Stephen Colbert Support the pod: Donate here to support In The Meanwhile Follow us: Instagram | BlueSky | Website Read Nora and Marcus's Books: Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect. Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.  Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

This week on In The Meanwhile, Nora and Marcus do what every emotionally stable person does in a collapsing empire: eat dessert first and deal with the vegetables later. They speed-run the Trump administration's latest clown car pileup: featuring the extremely cursed timeline where even the NRA and Senate Republicans are like, "Hey man… maybe chill?" — before zooming out to a much bigger target on the authoritarian wishlist: universities. Enter constitutional law scholar Brian Soucek, author of The Opinionated University, who joins for a brainy, spicy, occasionally laugh-so-you-don't-scream convo about what academic freedom actually means (hint: it's not "tenured guy yells vibes"). They dig into why  calls for "neutrality" are usually code for "please stop challenging power," how outsourcing expertise hollows out education, and why turning campuses into beige corporate training centers would be a tragedy for democracy. We're reminded that universities — messy, loud, imperfect as hell — are still some of the last places where people practice the radical act of disagreeing in public and (sometimes) learning something. Mentioned in the episode:  Federal judge actually tossing out a lawsuit  | Hannah Fried episode | Pediatrician who fought to help Alex Pretti |  at least 8 other people killed by ICE  | Howard Zinn | "Committee A" on Academic Freedom and Tenure | Committee on Academic Freedom | UC's National Center for Free Speech and Civic Engagement |  Gaza Med School Commencement Speech | SSE: Living and Loving Under the Carceral State | Arts at King St Station Art More from Brian Soucek: The Opinionated University: Academic Freedom, Diversity, and the Myth of Neutrality in American Higher Education | Brian Soucek at Town Hall Seattle Feb 3 Support the pod: Donate here to support In The Meanwhile Follow us: Instagram | BlueSky | Website Read Nora and Marcus's Books: Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect. Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.  Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

This week on In The Meanwhile, Nora and Marcus open with global chaos: tantrum diplomacy, Greenland confusion, and peace-as-a-timeshare, before turning to something far more urgent and close to home: the accelerating cruelty of ICE. Joined by Angelina Godoy, founding director of the UW Center for Human Rights, they unpack how immigration enforcement has slid toward secret-police tactics, how Washington state data is being quietly weaponized, and why "immigrant rights are human rights" isn't just a slogan, it's a legal and political battleground. It's dark, funny, furious, and grounding all at once: a group therapy session for a moment that demands clarity, courage, and boundaries. Mentioned in the episode:  UW Center for Human Rights | report on immigration enforcement and driver information | Immigration officers assert sweeping power to enter homes without a judge's warrant, memo says | Economist/YouGov Poll | ICE Can Now Spy on Every Phone in Your Neighborhood | Fury as Amazon Ring Cameras Are Hooked Up to ICE System | 2026 Oscar Nominations |  Sinners | Ryan Coogler | Fruitvale Station Read Prof. Godoy's Books: Popular Injustice | Of Medicines and Markets Support the pod: Donate here to support In The Meanwhile Follow us: Instagram | BlueSky | Website   Read Nora and Marcus's Books: Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect. Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.  Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

This week on In The Meanwhile, Nora and Marcus stare into the news-cycle roulette wheel, where every slot reads "are you kidding me?" and land on America's default coping mechanism: militarism. Press freedom under attack. ICE acting like it's Fallujah. The President threatening war like it's a vibes-based policy choice. Totally normal stuff.  They're joined by Michael McPhearson, a U.S. Army veteran and head of Veterans for Peace, who calmly explains how forever wars abroad get rebranded and redeployed at home. From "enemy combatant" logic to Congress abandoning its job, McPhearson connects the dots and makes the apparently radical case that being anti-war is actually pro-veteran. Incisive, furious, and darkly funny. Strap in. Mentioned in the episode:  Veterans for Peace | Iraq Sanctions | Abolition of the Army in Costa Rica | Mark Fisher: Capitalist Realism | Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of MLK Jr.  Support the pod: Donate here to support In The Meanwhile Follow us: Instagram | BlueSky | Website Read Nora and Marcus's Books: Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect. Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.  Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

When politics feels less like a news cycle and more like a full-body stress test, we hit pause and ask the real question: how do we actually defend democracy, right now, with real people? This week, Nora and Marcus sit down with Hannah Fried, CEO and co-founder of All Voting Is Local, for a conversation that's sharp, human, and refreshingly free of abstract hand-wringing. Fried breaks down how election interference actually works, not just the unhinged headline moments, but the quieter stuff: bureaucratic choke points, "technical" rule changes, and the slow grind of making voting harder on purpose. And she explains how organizers across the country are fighting back year-round to keep the ballot accessible, secure, and dignified. It's urgent without being apocalyptic, hopeful without being naïve, and a reminder that democracy isn't a vibe, it's a practice. It lives in communities, relationships, and showing up over and over again. And when someone tries to take your vote? Hannah Fried is very clear: that's your cue to fight like hell. Mentioned in the episode:  All Voting is Local | I am Legend | Minneapolis to ICE: Get the F**k Out  Support the pod: Donate here to support In The Meanwhile Follow us: Instagram | BlueSky | Website Read Nora and Marcus's Books: Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect. Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.  Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

We're dropping this mini-episode as new details emerge around the fatal shooting of Renee Nicole Good by an ICE agent. Nora and Marcus cut through the fog, the spin, and the both-sides media haze to talk plainly about what the video shows, what federal officials are claiming, and why those two things are in direct conflict. They unpack how language is being weaponized to justify lethal force, why U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement accountability feels intentionally out of reach, and how this killing fits into a broader, deeply disturbing pattern. The stakes are named without euphemism: what happened to Renee could happen to anyone. And that is precisely why people are still showing up, still filming, still bearing witness, and still refusing the quiet that unaccountable power depends on. Mentioned in the episode:  ProPublica Report on ICE violence against protestors | ProPublica: What the Trump Administration's Videos From a Chicago Immigration Raid Don't Show | Pramila Jayapal on KING5 | Jan 7 2026 ICE protest in Seattle| Ijeoma Oluo Support the pod: Donate here to support In The Meanwhile Follow us: Instagram | BlueSky | Website Read Nora and Marcus's Books: Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect. Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.  Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

2025 is finally over! In this week's episode, Nora and Marcus take stock of a year that felt like two cursed decades duct-taped together, and ask the real question: what do we keep? Enter Alex Gallo-Brown, a labor organizer, poet, and the campaign manager behind Seattle's very real, very satisfying David-beats-Goliath mayoral upset. Together, they dig into how a scrappy, people-powered campaign took on big money, establishment politics, and doomscroll-induced despair—and won. It's a conversation about solidarity, humor as resistance, democracy vouchers, and why ordinary people stepping into the halls of power might be the most hopeful story we've got for the year ahead. Mentioned in the episode:  Ep 3: Civic Bravery | Ep 8: Gabriel Teodros | Ep 11: Katie Wilson | Income Inequality in the US | AP: Here's why everyone's talking about a K shaped economy | Democracy Vouchers | Pablo Neruda | Labor Notes Books | Works & Days by Gina Myers | Bristlecone pines Support the pod: Donate here to support In The Meanwhile Follow us: Instagram | BlueSky | Website Read Nora and Marcus's Books: Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect. Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.  Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

Holiday breather this week, but no skipping the brain food. We're re-airing Marcus's live Town Hall Seattle conversation with historian Heather Cox Richardson, and somehow it's more relevant now than when it was recorded.  Richardson (Democracy Awakening, Letters from an American) zooms out past the personality-of-the-week politics to ask the big, slightly terrifying questions: How do democracies actually fall apart? Why do bad myths keep working? And why have marginalized communities always been the ones dragging this country closer to its own promises? From the Declaration of Independence to cable news chaos, from ballots to "reality-based communities," this is sharp, hopeful, and deeply clarifying. A reminder that history isn't over, and neither is the fight to make democracy real. It's smart, funny, unsettling, and, against all odds, hopeful. Mentioned in the episode:  Town Hall Seattle | Letters From an American | Democracy Awakening: Notes on the State of America Support the pod: Donate here to support In The Meanwhile Follow us: Instagram | BlueSky | Website Read Nora and Marcus's Books: Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect. Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.  Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

This week, Nora and Marcus sit down with Renée Hopkins, CEO of the Alliance for Gun Responsibility, to talk about a grim reality we're supposed to pretend is normal: gun violence that's killing kids every day while politicians offer therapeutic platitudes and zero legislation.  But here's the twist—Hopkins and her team have actually made progress on this issue. While the rest of the country cycles through outrage, helplessness, fear, and legislative paralysis, Washington state has been quietly passing comprehensive gun safety laws. Background checks, extreme risk protection orders, safe storage requirements—turns out you can regulate tools of mass death without the constitution bursting into flames.  It's a conversation about how we misunderstand both where gun violence comes from and who it most impacts, and the policy wins that are saving the biggest killer of pregnant women and children across the US. Bring tissues. Bring rage. And maybe bring some faith that steady progress beats thoughts and prayers every time.  Mentioned in the episode: Vanity Fair: Susie Wiles, JD Vance, and the "Junkyard Dogs": The White House Chief of Staff on Trump's Second Term (Part 1 of 2) | Alliance for Gun Responsibility | Past Lives podcast | Let this Radicalize You Support the pod: Donate here to support In The Meanwhile Follow us: Instagram | BlueSky | Website Read Nora and Marcus's Books: Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise  Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.  Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect. Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

This week, Marcus and Nora wade through the Trump awards circus, billionaire media custody battles, and the administration's petty racism before calling on Dr. Ralina Joseph, author of Racial Exhaustion: How to Move Through Racism in the Wake of DEI. Together, they dig into what "racial exhaustion" really is, why the DEI backlash hits so hard, and why everyone wants to tap out of race conversations precisely when they matter most. Dr. Joseph breaks down how radical listening and radical speaking can keep us in the fight without losing our minds (or each other) and offers a roadmap for talking about race without combusting, retreating, or throwing our decorative holiday pillows through a window. Mentioned in the episode:  Racial Exhaustion | Radical Listening | Anjuli Brekke | HPV Vaccine | Guillermo del Toro's Frankenstein | The Profoundly Feminist Origins of Frankenstein | Mary Shelley's Frankenstein Support the pod: Donate here to support In The Meanwhile Follow us: Instagram | BlueSky | Website Follow Dr. Ralina Joseph: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ralina-joseph-b68535275/  Save the dates to see Dr. Joseph in Seattle: Feb 23 @ Elliott Bay Books  | Feb 26 @Third Place Books Seward Park with Micki Flowers  Read Nora and Marcus's Books: Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect. Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.  Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

This week, Nora and Marcus trade Thanksgiving horror stories (ER visits, bad Netflix, and weaponized pie) before calling in anthropologist Anand Pandian to ask: why does America live like it's in a permanent bunker, emotionally and architecturally? Drawing from his new book, Something Between Us, they dig into gated communities, monster trucks, white nationalist rallies, COVID denial, and the meta-narratives that keep us terrified of each other instead of invested in each other. It's part political exorcism, part national reality check for anyone whose dinner gatherings with family feel like a mashup of QAnon, PragerU, and a Hallmark movie on ketamine, plus a surprisingly tender case for choosing interdependence over "I got mine, good luck out there." Mentioned in the episode:  Something Between Us: The Everyday Walls of American Life, and How to Take them Down | A Possible Anthropology: Methods for Uneasy Times | When Buckley met Baldwin | What I learned from an unlikely friendship with an anti-masker | Metaracism with Tricia Rose |  Support the pod: Donate here to support In The Meanwhile Follow us: Instagram | BlueSky | Website Read Nora and Marcus's Books: Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect. Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.  Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

It's a special thanksgiving mini-episode! Marcus and Nora sit down to talk about sustaining gratitude, forgiveness, and connection through hard times. Marcus reads a heartfelt tribute to his brother D'Marcus, who died unexpectedly in the fall of 2022. It's a powerful reminder of why showing people we love them and expressing our gratitude for them is necessary, especially in times of turmoil. In a season when family gatherings can test the patience of even the most even-tempered among us, it's the reminder we all need to lean into love. And, of course, Nora and Marcus close out the episode with an extra-large serving of 8 ounces of joy.  Mentioned in the episode:  It's never too late to tell a family member you love them. Until it is. | Rainier Valley Food Bank | A tribute to an oracle, Alice Wong | Crip the vote | Crips for eSims for Gaza | Disability Visibility Project | Year of the Tiger Support the pod: Donate here to support In The Meanwhile Follow us: Instagram | BlueSky | Website Read Nora and Marcus's Books: Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect. Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.  Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

This week Nora and Marcus start where all great late-stage-capitalism horror stories begin: Trump's "golden age of affordability," $10 lattes, and a Starbucks bear cup that looks like it escaped from Dollar Tree on work release. From there, they dive into the Epstein files, congressional clownery, and the ongoing revelation that the powerful are exactly as gross as we always suspected. Then historian Peniel Joseph shows up to draw from his new book Freedom Season. He walks us through why 1963 was a hinge year for civil rights, how backlash is baked into progress, and what today's fights over voter suppression, book bans, and basic human dignity owe to that era's coalitions and courage. Nora and Marcus then close with a tender closing reflection on grief, family, and remembering our way toward a better future. Mentioned in the episode:  It's never too late to tell a family member you love them. Until it is. | Nora's grandfather's NYT coverage of March on Washington  Books by Peniel E. Joseph: Freedom Season: How 1963 Transformed America's Civil Rights Revolution | The Sword and the Shield: The Revolutionary Lives of Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr. | The Third Reconstruction: America's Struggle for Racial Justice in the Twenty-First Century | Stokely: A Life | Dark Days, Bright Nights From Black Power to Barack Obama Support the pod: Donate here to support In The Meanwhile Follow us: Instagram | BlueSky | Website Read Nora and Marcus's Books: Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect. Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.  Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

In our 25th episode, Marcus and Nora do what any self-respecting pair of exhausted optimists would do: celebrate by looking back at all the chaos we somehow survived together. They revisit the best, wildest, and most unexpectedly therapeutic moments from In the Meanwhile: the mutual-aid revelations, the metanarrative nerd-outs, the Gaza truth-telling, the working-class rage, the billionaire clownery, and the profound relief of finding out we're not the only ones screaming into the void. There's also: a pop quiz no one studied for, a democracy pep talk from Mama Green (queen), a brief interlude dragging Senate Democrats (deserved), and proof that they've technically out-podcasted Barack Obama. Plus, their trademark Eight Ounces of Joy, future dream guests, and a reminder that community, humor, and righteous indignation are the only things getting any of us through this timeline. Mentioned in the episode:  Democrats and the end of the shutdown | Katie Wilson | #11: Katie Wilson | Seattle & King County voter turnout | #3: Civic Bravery (ICE Detentions) | #5: Dean Spade | #16: Tricia Rose | #17: Douglas Rushkoff | #8: Gabriel Teodros | #13: Dr. Daudi Abe | #21: Byron Sigcho Lopez | #10: Francesca Fiorentini | Doing the Reading | ICE Signal chat data leak | Podchaser | Guest Rant: Now is the Time to Hope, and Vote  Support the pod: Donate here to support In The Meanwhile Follow us: Instagram | BlueSky | Website Read Nora and Marcus's Books: Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect. Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.  Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

Nora and Marcus are back—running on caffeine, civic duty, and sheer willpower—joined once again by Charles Douglas III of Common Power. Together, they break down the chaos that is election week: why Seattle's slow counts might actually be a good sign, what the polls keep getting it spectacularly wrong, and how to turn that fleeting campaign adrenaline into real, lasting community power. They dive into big-tent politics, the art of re-humanizing our movements, and why voting should be so boring it's revolutionary. Charles brings the hope, the humor, and a reminder that democracy isn't a one-night stand—it's the long-term relationship we build together, one conversation, one community meal, and one ballot at a time. Mentioned in the episode:  Guest Rant: Now is the Time to Hope, and Vote | Common Power | Protesters at Kamala's book talk in Seattle | Nancy Pelosi retiring | Insider trading among elected officials | Wall Street Billionaires Now Offering to Help Mamdani | Graham Platner | Prime Minister | Rebecca Solnit on 2024 election | Mike Davis: Despair is Useless Support the pod: Donate here to support In The Meanwhile Follow us: Instagram | BlueSky | Website Read Nora and Marcus's Books: Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect. Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.  Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.