Advertise on podcast: Wake Up Excited!

Andy Clarke shares what excites him lately, sparking memories of his early photography career and frequent trips to Schaffhausen. His pivot from art school and darkroom work into technical sales, and lessons about good selling as an art of solving real problems. The discussion moves to creative storytelling on the web, focus and distraction habits, challenges with open-plan offices, and how he’s built a work life around late-night rhythms and self-managed attention. Clarke also reflects on family history, his father’s suicide and trauma, changing views on mental health and heredity, and a desire to do more consequential political or social work while relearning how to create for pleasure. Topics: (00:00) - Introduction (01:17) - Rebuilding The Sinar Camera (08:28) - Pre Digital Car Shoots (14:28) - Sales Lessons That Stick (27:15) - Storytelling On The Web (37:10) - Writing Needs Silence (48:45) - Designing Your Rhythm with ADHD (01:08:01) - Turning 60 Reflections (01:12:36) - Mr Rogers Envy (01:17:49) - Providing vs Purpose (01:25:30) - Objects as Memory Anchors (01:40:43) - Music Picks and Billy Bragg (01:45:42) - Where to Follow Links:Up (2009 film)Love Story (1970 film)Philadelphia (1993 film)Mister Rogers' NeighborhoodMister Rogers biographyBilly BraggMotörheadMeat LoafLed ZeppelinMiranda LambertMegan MoroneyThe Rolling StonesPyotr Ilyich TchaikovskyWilcoWoody GuthrieBat Out of HellBetween the WarsPower in a UnionUnfinished Businessstuffandnonsense.co.ukSinar P2Schneider Super-AngulonIWC SchaffhausenRolexHermèsRickenbackerGibson Les PauliPod ClassicGame BoyTiffany & Co.AmazonDavid HockneyJeremy KeithPreston North End F.C.

We’re finding renewed excitement for discovering music through going to gigs and reflecting on how live shows offer an irreplaceable shared experience. The discussion shifts to the indie web, hyperlink culture, and how social platforms and chatbots reduce discoverability, while AI could lower barriers to building websites but raises concerns about credit, control, hosting complexity, and accessibility. Topics: (00:00) - What has you waking up excited? (01:03) - Music and Travel (07:16) - Owning Music Again (10:59) - Re-discovering the Indie Web (15:19) - AI for Personal Websites (23:47) - Accessible Defaults and Standards (39:02) - Web Trends Come Full Circle (43:02) - Smaller Models Better Choices (53:38) - Accessibility Positivity vs Policing (01:10:10) - Assistive Tech vs Novelty Use (01:12:42) - Music Picks Links:◉ Songkick◉ Bandcamp◉ Open UI◉ W3C◉ How People with Disabilities Use the Web (W3C)◉ WCAG / WCAG 3◉ CSS Day◉ Green Web Foundation◉ Green Software Foundation◉ hidde.blog◉ State of the Browser◉ Massive Attack◉ IJsland — Dutch punk/hip-hop◉ James Blake — Trying Times◉ React◉ Tailwind CSS◉ Bootstrap

Brad chats with Miriam Suzanne about pottery, theater, CSS, and why we shouldn’t just accept AI as the way. Miriam describes their through-line as collaborative creativity across pottery, theater, client work, and CSS standards, arguing process shapes results and that CSS is inherently collaborative with users, browsers, and devices. She critiques rigid notions of originality and authenticity, emphasizing growth and multiplicity. Miriam rejects “results over process” arguments, challenges claims of democratization amid surveillance, environmental costs, and corporate control, and calls for collective agency to imagine and build better tools and systems.  Topics: (00:00) - Waking Up Excited (02:26) - Returning to Pottery (04:51) - Theater as Hybrid Art (07:00) - Inviting the Audience In (11:14) - Questioning Authenticity (17:20) - Theater in Prisons (28:36) - Facilitating Collaboration Everywhere (38:06) - Why CSS Feels Fuzzy (53:01) - AI for Early Prototypes (01:01:05) - Fix Orgs Not Tools (01:08:10) - Using AI Without Hype (01:17:40) - Uneasy Benefits Tradeoff (01:26:10) - AI's Original Sin And Accountability (01:36:28) - Vision And Agency (01:45:22) - Music Recommendation (01:48:09) - Where To Follow And CSS Courses Links:oddbird.netgrapefruitlab.commiriamsuzanne.comcourses.oddbird.netBalsamiqHarvestClaudeChatGPTDiscordThe Rolling StonesVelvet UndergroundLou ReedParliament-Funkadelic (P-Funk)Maggot Brain by FunkadelicTeacup GorillaEmily Rogers"Franchise" by Isaac AsimovWalt WhitmanJohn Allsopp — "Dao of Web Design"Busch GardensRiverdance"12 Angry Men"Timnit GebruEmily Bender

Scott Jenson joins Brad to chat about how UX designers thrive in ambiguity and why wrestling with confusing, failing experiments, especially around AI, can signal real progress. The conversation covers open source’s multiplier effect, the need for sustainable funding, and Scott’s work with Mastodon. Jenson also describes practical AI value for prototyping and coding, while emphasizing nuance, trust, and asking questions over online pile-ons. Topics: (00:00) - Why Ambiguity Excites (06:33) - Designers and the Messy Unknown (10:45) - Tech vs Capitalism (14:23) - Compromise and Stability (18:29) - Fixing Social Media Conversations (28:50) - Persistence and Craft Over Time (36:29) - Open Source as a Model (39:48) - Mastodon and Lowering Costs (46:54) - Consulting and Client Trust (52:38) - Designers vs Programmers (01:08:02) - Open Web vs AI Incentives (01:15:51) - Music Picks (01:19:22) - Where to Find Scott Jenson Links:◉ Your Money or Your Life by Vicki Robin ◉ The Righteous Mind: Why Good People Are Divided by Politics and Religion by Jonathan Haidt ◉ Finding Nemo (Pixar, 2003) ◉ Jurassic Park (1993) ◉ Die Hard (1988) ◉ Pluribus (Apple TV+) ◉ Take Five – Dave Brubeck (Time Out album) ◉ Fleeting Future by Aksumi ◉ Sax Pax for a Sax by Moondog

Paul and Brad discuss how AI has reintroduced “Wild West” chaos to the web, which Paul finds energizing after years of predictable maturity in the industry. Drawing parallels to past disruptions like desktop publishing, CSS/web standards, and the dot-com bust, Paul argues that panic about AI replacing specialists will settle as organizations realize quality still matters. They emphasize learning through sharing, rejecting performative content marketing, and valuing humility over guru certainty. The conversation explores consulting as amplifying in-house teams’ knowledge, the need to adapt rigid UX processes, and how AI can help democratize UX by empowering non-specialists through playbooks, design systems, and easier access to research. Paul shares how he intentionally built a lifestyle business enabling RV travel, and closes on resilience, change, and optimism. Topics: (00:00) - Hello Chaos (04:10) - Tech Cycles And Jobs (07:27) - Letting Go To Grow (11:01) - Learning By Sharing (25:07) - Process Myths In UX (35:42) - Democratizing UX With AI (43:47) - AI As Meeting Facilitator (59:19) - Kill Handoff With AI (01:04:40) - Is Paul Retiring? (01:13:46) - Business Serves Life (01:33:16) - What Music Does Paul Want You to Know About? Links:◉ Jeffrey Zeldman ◉ Ethan Marcotte ◉ Steve Krug ◉ Jakob Nielsen ◉ boagworld.com ◉ Atomic Design ◉ Starlink ◉ Perplexity ◉ Material Design ◉ Double Diamond design process ◉ Desktop publishing history ◉ Bob Seger & The Silver Bullet Band ◉ Against the Wind (Spotify) ◉ Against the Wind (YouTube)

Nathan Curtis discusses how his work has shifted over the past two years from leading design system teams to focusing on strict architecture and building tools that communicate design intent to engineering, energized by faster iteration enabled by AI. He reflects on his long history in design systems, including his 2009 book “Modular Web Design”. Curtis addresses why teams may feel threatened by AI amid layoffs and rapid tool adoption, arguing that system thinking, governance, and coordination remain essential even as non-deterministic workflows grow. He explains building an evolved Specs tool that extracts structured data from Figma via plugin and CLI for repeatable, cross-platform specifications, while cautioning against using agents where deterministic processes are more precise. They explore flexibility vs lockdown culture, Figma’s role as a typed database, ecosystem interoperability, and advice on writing, consulting, and choosing work that sustains energy. Links: Modular Web Design: Creating Reusable Components for User Experience Design and Documentation [Book]Directed Edges / Nathan CurtisWake Up Excited! | Ben Callahan on Building Community, Your Values, and the Power of ConnectionCenter CentreFROSTAPALOOZAMax Richter - On the Nature of Daylight - YouTubeMellon Collie And The Infinite Sadness (Remastered 2012) - YouTubeSpecsDirectedEdges/specs: Schema, types, and command line tools to record and manage UI component specifications.nathanacurtis on GitHubTopics: (00:00) - Introduction (04:56) - Motion Meets AI (07:06) - Threats and Layoffs (14:44) - Flexibility vs Governance (20:21) - Determinism vs Prediction (25:21) - Agentic UX Ergonomics (35:46) - Building the Specs Toolchain (49:52) - Sharing Versus Capitalism (56:05) - Finding Your Voice (01:00:23) - What's the Future Of Design Systems? (01:14:10) - Advice For New Consultants (01:23:23) - Breadth Versus Depth (01:27:26) - Wrap Up And Gratitude

Ridd feels like he’s having more fun than ever as a designer because he can now code and close the gap using Claude to build features with full control over pixels, animations, and interactions. Brad and Ridd discuss how AI shrinks learning barriers, helps translate vague intentions into technical language, and enables individuals to realize ideas with less reliance on others, while complicating collaboration and threatening specialized roles. They explore problem-finding, local/community applications, hybrid service-plus-software models, anxiety about oversupply and discoverability, and Ridd’s deliberate optimism and early-adopter mindset. Links:◉ Jitter · A fast and simple motion design tool on the web◉ Dive Club 🤿◉ Ridd 🤿 (@ridd_design) / X◉ Emancipator◉ Layup Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction (01:38) - Coding Unlocks Control (13:16) - AI's Original Sin (26:48) - Oversupply And Taste (29:36) - Rebuilding Local Culture (35:37) - Software As A Gift (42:41) - Designers As Problem Finders (51:46) - Design Identity Shift (01:01:53) - Teaching The First Step (01:10:36) - Flattened Hierarchies Opportunity (01:15:18) - Optimism As Strategy (01:21:44) - Music Picks And Playlists

Afyia Smith talks about her separation from Epic Games and choosing optimism by exploring the city and visiting new coffee shops, even amid anxiety and uncertainty. Afyia explains her work as a design systems documentation specialist, arguing that documentation is becoming foundational, especially with AI and agentic workflows, because it captures rationale, behaviors, edge cases, and shared truth across teams. Topics: (00:00) - Meet Afyia Smith (00:55) - Coffee Shop Reset (01:56) - Epic Departure Fallout (03:39) - Choosing Optimism Daily (07:27) - Docs Finally Matter (22:21) - Docs as Team Alignment (28:41) - Facilitating with Neutrality (33:24) - From Solo to Collaborative (36:02) - Docs First Humanity (46:58) - Career Reinvention Mindset (54:18) - Music Picks and Memories (01:00:55) - Where to Connect with Afyia Smith Links: ◉ Michael Jackson — Off the Wall◉ Michael Jackson — Bad ◉ Michael Jackson — Thriller ◉ Xscape — Who Can I Run To ◉ Lauryn Hill — The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill ◉ Michael Jackson biopic (Michael) ◉ afyiasmith.co ◉ LinkedIn — Afyia Smith ◉ ChatGPT ◉ Figma ◉ Storybook ◉ Jira ◉ Google Docs ◉ Epic Games ◉ Tower Records ◉ AI and Design Systems course

Luke Wroblewski talks about what’s waking him up excited these days and draws an analogy between trail building and product building, emphasizing prototyping and especially maintenance. The conversation shifts to parenting teens and Luke’s view that people should find their own path, criticizing cookie-cutter career thinking and overly mechanical approaches to life and design. They discuss AI’s rapid, compounding evolution, the widening gap between those keeping up and those not, and how automation should free humans to focus on purpose. Luke shares concerns about awareness and control in agentic systems, shows examples of interfaces for visibility, and argues for collaboration-focused workspaces.  Chapters: (00:00) - Intro (03:41) - Trails are a lot like products (10:28) - Purpose over process (15:57) - AI moving at warp speed (23:15) - What interfaces look like next (27:53) - Keeping the web open (32:34) - Writing with AI (44:47) - Can you trust what agents do (53:13) - Did AI steal the training data? (57:52) - Building an ethics harness for AI tooling (01:13:30) - Luke's work on a shared AI tool workspace for teams (01:22:47) - Grit, incentives, and the mess left behind (01:28:16) - Music picks from Luke (01:32:12) - Where to find Luke online Links:CodexGmailOutlookSlackFigmaNotionClaude CodeRev (rev.art)lukew.commaggieappleton.comtheatlantic.comHomageBig Ears Festivalbillfrisell.comjulianlage.comClaude's Constitution

Luke and Brad discuss feeling newly unblocked by today’s tools which enable rapid experimentation, which must be done at a human level. Exploring nuance over binary positions, comparing reactions to AI to stages of grief, and exploring baking harm reduction and accessibility into systems. Links: Try This At Home by Frank TurnerTHE 17 GOALS | Sustainable DevelopmentFuture TeensAce of Cups - Luke Murphy's personal websiteLuke Murphy (@lurkmoophy.bsky.social)Luke Murphy (@lurkmoophy) • Instagram (00:00) - Introduction (03:25) - ADHD And Unfinished Ideas (12:06) - Using Suno to unlock ideas (23:46) - Nuance In Roles (33:19) - Living With Contradictions (39:28) - Systems Over Symptoms (44:22) - An idea: AI Through Grief Stages (56:11) - Techno Pragmatism And Activism (59:49) - Luddites And Worker Rights (01:02:02) - Baking Ethics Into Workflows (01:08:40) - UN Goals As Software Lint (01:18:02) - Luke's Music Pick And Where To Follow

Don Norman discusses how his best ideas arrive through “incubation,” often waking him at 1–2 AM to write, and explains how he starts books by finding a guiding title and compelling theme rather than dull “history and basics.” He compares the subconscious to AI: it creatively assembles plausible outputs that may be wrong, requiring conscious evaluation—unlike today’s AI, which can “hallucinate.” The conversation explores reconstructive memory and the unreliability of eyewitness testimony, the power of framing and placebo effects, and how emotions chemically change how the brain operates. Norman describes managing creativity with playful, noncritical collaboration followed by focused stress, and shares optimism rooted in action via the Don Norman Design Award and an “Alliance for Humanity” aligned with UN Sustainable Development Goals. They address AI’s impact on designers, artists, and musicians, arguing for attribution, licensing, collaboration, and the need for all of us to start getting weird. Links: Henri PoincaréElizabeth LoftusWassily KandinskySnarky Puppy4′33″ by John CageMarcel Duchamp | FountainPeter Singer | The Expanding CircleAnthropic | OpenAIDesign for GoodCommit GlobalInfosysUN Sustainable Development GoalsDon Norman Design Award / Alliance for HumanityThe Design of Everyday Things — Don NormanDesign for a Better World — Don NormanTopics: (00:00) - Welcome (01:55) - Finding the Book (03:26) - Incubation and Breakthroughs (09:24) - Eyewitness and Word Framing (11:52) - Placebos and Double Blind (14:34) - Emotions Change the Brain (16:08) - Creativity Needs Stress (23:35) - Optimism as a Choice (25:35) - AI and the Future of Music and Art (37:21) - Rethinking Cheating With AI (40:45) - Cooperation Beats Competition (47:01) - Alliance for Humanity (51:33) - LLMs as Collaboration Hub (59:10) - Humanity Centered Design (01:08:03) - Disagreeing Without Conflict

Abby Covert shares what excites her now, leaving corporate life, reclaiming creativity through recovery work, sobriety, journaling, and disciplined writing, and how community builds confidence beyond capability. They explore being willing to be bad at things, the pressure to “pick a specialty” online, and bringing fun and psychological safety into work by modeling humanity. They also talk about knowledge decay on the web, AI’s mixed effects, and Abby recommends listening to live Grateful Dead recordings. Links: ◉ How to Make Sense of Any Mess — Abby Covert's first book (mentioned via the "coffee filter" metaphor) ◉ Stuck — Abby Covert's second book, written during her early recovery ◉ Silent Spring — Rachel Carson's landmark book, discussed in the context of posthumous recognition ◉ Grateful Dead — Abby's music recommendation; suggests listening to live recordings ◉ Dick's Picks — Grateful Dead live album series, recommended for newcomers ◉ Live at the Mars Hotel — Brad's Grateful Dead recommendation ◉ Furthur — Post-Dead touring band ◉ Dead & Company — Current continuation of the Grateful Dead legacy ◉ Otis Redding — "(Sittin' On) The Dock of the Bay" — Discussed as an example of posthumous impact ◉ abbycovert.com — Abby's personal site ◉ thesensemakersclub.com — Abby's membership community (weekly discussion meetings) ◉ Be Internet Awesome — Google's internet safety curriculum for grades 2–9 ◉ Wayback Machine — Internet Archive, mentioned in discussion of digital decay/link rot ◉ The Pastry Box Project — Defunct web publication both Brad and Abby contributed to ◉ YouTube — Discussed in context of parental controls and kids' online safety ◉ ChatGPT — Referenced in discussion of AI democratization and vibe coding ◉ Wix — Website builder mentioned in the "mouth coding" story ◉ LinkedIn — Discussed critically re: pressure to specialize publicly ◉ Ikigai — Japanese concept of life purpose, referenced via Alfie Lowe's Venn diagram renovation ◉ The Artist's Way (Morning Pages) — Julia Cameron's journaling practice Abby used in recovery ◉ Indie Web movement — Brad references the ethos of personal websites and decentralized publishing ◉ Information Architecture Institute — Abby was president; discussed in context of community and link rot ◉ Etsy — Abby's last corporate employer before going independent ◉ Stax Records — Memphis label, discussed in context of Otis Redding and posthumous work ◉ Epic Universe — New Universal theme park in Florida; Abby's family visited to celebrate her son's reading milestone Topics Covered: (00:00) - Homeschool Wins (01:05) - SenseMaker Salon Plans (01:51) - Leaving Corporate Comfort (04:51) - Learning While Being Bad (06:30) - Public Failure Online (08:37) - Make It Up (11:53) - Information Is Sketchy (14:38) - Reclaiming Creativity (18:12) - Recovery Journaling Rituals (21:32) - Community Builds Confidence (24:47) - Mentors And Role Models (29:28) - Bringing Fun To Work (32:15) - Authenticity In Meetings (37:09) - Cracking Tough Nuts (43:27) - Teaching Internet Safety (45:04) - Kids Online Boundaries (46:23) - YouTube Parental Controls Fail (47:56) - Internet Safety Curriculum (48:43) - Schools Lag Behind Tech (51:01) - AI Adoption Timelines (54:35) - Digital Decay and Link Rot (56:27) - Indie Web and Collective Memory (01:00:08) - AI Democratization Limits (01:01:45) - Mouth Coding for Nonprofits (01:06:08) - When Vibe Coding Breaks (01:11:36) - Human Culture and Agency (01:15:20) - Privilege Diversity and Consulting (01:24:37) - Coffee Filter Discernment (01:27:54) - Grateful Dead Community (01:30:42) - Where to Find Abby (01:31:28) - Closing Thanks (01:31:50) - Morning Excitement Check

Dan and Brad explore AI as a creative partner for drafting and ideation while requiring strong human direction, and compare today’s shift to the desktop-to-web and mobile transitions, including recurring backlash to new tech. They address risks: metacognitive laziness, erosion of expertise, stolen training data, environmental and geopolitical harms, and weak regulation, alongside benefits like empowering small nonprofits and accelerating creative and product work. Chapters:00:00 Welcome 01:06 Claude Update Frustrations 04:50 AI as Writing Partner 07:23 Teaching During Shifts 11:29 Backlash and Nuance with AI 27:48 Design Process Upended 38:22 AI As Creative Accelerant 41:07 Andy Warhol Tech And Art 44:28 Music Gets Weird 54:30 Expertise In The Push a Button AI Era 01:02:34 Music Pick 01:05:03 Where To Follow Dan Saffer Links World Party The WaterboysSnarky PuppyAndy Warhol Museum AI in Design PodClaudeClaude CodeFigmaSunoWixAdbustersSturgeon's Law — "90% of everything is crap"Double Diamond design model

Sacha Judd discusses what excites her now: founding Lume Music, which aims to fix broken subscription-era music economics by launching a digital album format bundled with behind-the-scenes content in a beautiful app for dedicated music lovers. She argues the core problem online isn’t digital vs analog but feed vs queue—algorithmic, engagement-driven firehoses versus intentional, chosen experiences—and critiques venture-capital incentives, dark patterns, and how everything breaks at scale. With search and discovery degraded by AI slop, she advocates for human curation (newsletters, blogs, Reddit) and rebuilding “small shops” and healthy neighborhood-like communities, including optimism about AT Protocol apps. She’s writing a book on internet history through online fan communities, highlighting women and queer power users who pioneered governance, tagging, and moderation, and warns against conspiracy thinking and blunt teen social-media bans. Chapters: (00:00) - Lume Music Vision (02:12) - Albums as Artifacts (04:17) - Feed Versus Queue (07:48) - How Platforms Broke (11:45) - Human Curation Returns (14:08) - Finding Real Recommendations (18:06) - Small Networks Not Mega (22:35) - Everything Breaks at Scale (25:56) - Small Shops Web Future (32:58) - Lume Focused Audience (35:08) - Fandom Conspiracies (39:24) - Deepfakes and Literacy (41:55) - Don't Turn It Off (44:24) - Gen Z and Web Memory (47:25) - Unsung Fan Builders (49:56) - Fandom Journey Origins (55:39) - Community Creativity Loop (01:02:25) - Teens Need Safe Spaces (01:04:38) - Wrap Up and Motto (01:06:23) - Music Recommendation (01:07:42) - Where to Find Sasha (01:08:22) - Closing Thanks (01:08:35) - Morning Excitement Check LinksLume MusicSpotifyApple MusicYouTubeSubstackRedditBlueskyBlackskyMastodonLiveJournalTumblrArchive of Our Own (AO3)Uber EatsGoogleGoogle MapsLovableSachajudd.comShit You Should Care AboutMolly White's BlogRachel AndrewDark Forest Theory of the InternetBowling AloneThe X-FilesFormula 1MarvelTaylor SwiftHarry StylesBeyoncéWaiata / Anthems

Amber Case reflects on where you live and how returning to a familiar place can help think clearer. Case discusses seeking authentic, small-scale community, work nights, recess-like breaks, welcoming rituals, and mutual support. She contrasts these with expensive, scalable “community” models and argues effective communities rely on kindness, simplicity, history, and durable governance patterns. She connects this to “revenge of the real,” emphasizing tactile cognition, constraints, long-term thinking, and calm technology principles. Topics discussed: (00:00) - Morning Excitement Check (00:42) - Hot Wheels New York (01:46) - Secret Summer Chateau (03:01) - Dopamine Defragging (04:09) - Why Denver Feels Right (07:37) - Growth And Change (10:43) - Finding Real Community (12:23) - The Company Work Nights (15:44) - Against Scaled Clubs (19:23) - Designing Durable Groups (32:10) - Why People Dont Join (40:31) - History Analog Wisdom (46:00) - Unmoored Digital Life (48:13) - AI Effort Paradox (49:11) - Tactile Work Matters (50:16) - Constraints Create Meaning (51:17) - Handwriting And Cognition (52:42) - Farm Fantasy Reality (57:27) - Arts Therapy Embodiment (59:33) - Multisensory Education (01:00:57) - Long Term Craft Economy (01:07:06) - Local Repair Culture (01:10:37) - Universals Of Design (01:12:42) - Collaboration Conference Idea (01:14:33) - Against Main Character Metrics (01:16:48) - Buzzwords Get Commodified (01:19:24) - Calm Tech Certification (01:22:55) - Human Breaks And Texture (01:25:09) - Wrap Up And Music Pick (01:28:00) - Final Thanks And Goodbye (01:28:43) - Morning Excitement Check Links & ResourcesThe Place You Love Is GoneThe Road to Science FictionThe Lion, the Witch and the WardrobeChuck PalahniukMarshall McLuhanCory DoctorowFight ClubCrystal Quartez