Advertise on podcast: Path To The Main Stage Podcast

Unlock the power of saying no and scaling your speaking business! Learn how to define your worth, build sought-after expertise, and create systems that streamline your path to main stage success. In this insightful episode, Crystal Washington—Hall of Fame speaker and Forbes top 50 female futurist—shares her candid journey from corporate revenue management to global keynoter and digital marketing trailblazer. You’ll discover essential strategies for breaking into professional speaking, the pivotal role of mentorship, and how to partner with speaker bureaus to maximize your opportunities. The conversation focused on actionable ways to confidently raise your fees, leverage industry relationships, and adapt your business for a rapidly changing future. One concept discussed was the value of specialization—choosing a topic organizations actively want. A key theme that emerged was the power of “no” in building a sustainable business, as well as the importance of authenticity, generosity, and building a trusted brand amidst evolving industry trends and AI disruption. Find out why the future of speaking favors experts with real-world credibility, why speaker camaraderie is a game-changer, and why Crystal wouldn’t change a thing about her journey (hard lessons included). Episode Overview 00:00: Becoming a professional speaker—Crystal’s background and journey03:39: Taking a leap—launching a digital marketing firm and the first paid speaking gig06:59: Three accelerators: trending topics, mentorship, and systems thinking09:46: The art of saying no—why boundaries and fee integrity matter14:07: Raising your fee—when and how to level up18:17: The truth about working with speaker bureaus22:44: What is the Hall of Fame and the value of being part of NSA27:14: Crystal’s topic—futurism and strategic foresight30:48: The future of speaking—industry disruption, AI, and trust39:15: The reality behind quick-fix programs and speaker training43:51: The advice Crystal would (not) give her younger self

Unlock the main stage with joy, customization, and authenticity! Learn how to break into keynote speaking, deliver unforgettable talks, and build a thriving business as Li Hayes chats with Silicon Valley innovator and futurist Kevin Surace. In this refreshingly honest episode, you’ll discover what it really takes to stand out as a speaker, from customizing every presentation for your audience to bringing pure joy and energy to the stage. Kevin Surace shares why attitude trumps nerves, how AI is transforming presentation prep, and the importance of building credibility, practicing relentlessly, and treating speaking like a real business. Plus, get an inside look at the realities of rates, bureaus, TEDx talks, and why loving the craft is non-negotiable for long-term success. Hear practical advice on: Using pre-event calls to truly connect and customize for your clientsLeveraging AI for stellar slides and research without losing the human touchSetting your fees unapologetically and running your speaking career as a businessWhy joy—and limiting complaints—is the greatest driver of impact and longevityHonest insights on who keynote speaking is (and isn’t) for If you’re aiming for the main stage or wondering how to elevate your speaking, this interview is your candid roadmap to the top—delivered with a dose of joy and plenty of laughter. Episode Overview 00:00: Introduction and Kevin Surace’s story02:31: Journey to paid speaking—sales, theatre, and TV roots05:19: Customizing every keynote & client conversations08:03: The bureau vs. direct booking landscape09:29: Deep dive: Customization, AI tools, and slide creation13:39: Audience size, nerves, and the secret to great delivery16:57: Fees, rates, and learning from TEDx23:21: Authority, uniqueness, and the path to credibility31:04: “The Joy Success Cycle” and the power of attitude39:59: Final advice—treat it as a business, lead with joyListen in and get inspired to light up your next stage!

Unlock the secrets to a standout speaking career! Learn how to craft your signature voice, price your expertise, and build a stage-worthy platform—while staying true to yourself. In this energizing “Turning Point” episode, Li Hayes sits down with Laura Gassner Otting, Wall Street Journal bestselling author, top motivational speaker, and mindset coach, for a candid conversation about her unconventional path from politics and entrepreneurship to the pinnacle of professional speaking. Discover why your journey to success doesn’t have to be linear, how to engineer credibility with “jewels in the crown,” and why getting paid what you’re worth is as much about perception as performance. Laura Gassner Otting breaks down the real story behind building a speaking business, mastering the TEDx stage, setting the right fee, and leveraging both coaching and purposeful reps to build lasting impact. You'll hear heartfelt, actionable advice on crafting a life and business that work for you, developing transformational messaging, and breaking in with authority—even if you’re starting from zero. Whether you’re dreaming of your first keynote or aiming higher on the main stage, this episode will inspire you to “start your story in the middle,” experiment, and be unapologetically you as you step into the spotlight. Episode Overview00:00 Welcome, intro, and Laura Gassner Otting’s background02:22 Becoming an endurance athlete later in life04:16 Shifting from politics and corporate to entrepreneurship07:06 Building a life-first business, embracing non-linear paths09:24 First experiences on stage: confronting stage fright12:31 The turning point: TEDx, taking risks, and being coached16:03 Behind the scenes at TEDx: malleability, feedback, and transformation22:32 Getting paid: from potato hats to uncovering the pricing game25:09 Why is your rate your rate? Determining your value29:05 Leveraging credibility and “jewels in the crown”32:06 The importance of reps—and the power of coaching38:01 The real turning point: manufacturing your own experience and speaker reel45:55 Standing out in a crowded market46:28 The best advice I wish I knew at the start48:52 Wrap up and closing thoughts

Becoming unstoppable on your speaking journey! Learn how to build a resilient speaking career, strategically increase your value, and deliver memorable presentations—no matter the audience size. In this dynamic episode, you’ll hear practical wisdom on navigating the long (and sometimes rocky) path to the main stage, as business book author and speaker Mike Michalowicz shares his real-life missteps, career-defining pivots, and the powerful habits that fuel success. Whether you’re just finding your voice or pushing to command top-tier fees, you’ll glean actionable strategies for progressing through the speaking “value ladder,” leveraging your signature work, and mastering audience engagement. The conversation explores the realities behind “overnight success,” with candid stories of empty auditoriums, last-minute travel scrambles, and adapting to unforeseen challenges. Key themes include establishing your reputation, creating opportunities by building communities, and why facilitating connection can be your secret edge. Discover the techniques behind getting your reps in, selling your ideas (and your book), and why one phenomenal keynote outshines a roster of mediocre talks. Honest, tactical, and full of golden nuggets, this episode will motivate you to keep climbing with purpose—and equip you with the tools to go further, faster. Episode Overview 00:00: The real journey behind becoming a professional speaker00:25: Mike Michalowicz’s background and achievements02:16: Struggles, imposter syndrome, and the myth of overnight success04:04: Real speaking fees and value ladders for speakers05:46: “Stages” of paid speaking and what they mean07:19: Humbling early speaking gigs and lessons learned09:17: Evolving from general expertise to being a draw11:01: The importance of showing up—no excuses13:14: Navigating travel disasters and relentless commitment17:03: Respecting the event, being ready, and staying flexible18:16: Signature books, bestseller myths, and leveraging your “hook”22:02: The power of building and facilitating communities24:28: Why promoting others helps you too26:47: The reality of rotating speakers and sharing opportunities27:56: Getting your reps: how to test and improve new material31:11: Audience engagement, physical storytelling, and “stitching” for connection40:50: Turning points, identity shifts, and pro tips for speaking at colleges43:25: Step-by-step: using college clubs to gain experience, get paid, and build credibility49:33: Leveraging university gigs for higher-profile and higher-paying opportunities51:12: The biggest lesson: master one great speech, not ten mediocre ones

Learn how top speakers made it big—and how you can too! Discover the exact steps, deliberate actions, and bold moves that propelled today’s most successful speakers to million-dollar stages. In this energizing kick-off to Season 5, Li Hayes reveals why this season is different: you’ll hear from highly accomplished, generous speakers who openly share the behind-the-scenes details—not just their spotlight moments. Get an inside look as Li Hayes previews powerful interviews with Mike Michalowicz, Laura Gassner Otting, Kevin Surrace, Jeffrey Hazlett, Joey Coleman, Donald Miller, Crystal Washington, and more. You’ll learn how these pros landed their first keynotes, the high-impact investments they made in themselves, and the strategies they use month after month to command premium fees and grow their businesses. Whether you need a push to make a bold career move or want to master the business around your speaking, this episode packs practical inspiration for every stage of your journey. Episode Overview with Timestamps 00:00 Introduction to the season and what makes it unique00:40 Meet the speakers: their earnings, track records, and what you’ll learn01:23 Preview: Mike Michalowicz’s actionable strategies for booking stages01:47 Laura Gassner Otting’s bold investments in speaking02:12 Kevin Surrace’s monthly game plan for ongoing speaking success02:36 Jeffrey Hazlett on building a business around speaking03:07 Joey Coleman’s tips for working with event planners03:18 Sneak peek at surprise guests and more03:34 Wrap up and how to keep learning and connecting

Elevate your visibility and brand as a speaker! Learn how to create effortless, impactful content that amplifies your message—and turns your passion into career momentum. In this value-packed episode, content expert Diana Castro joins Path to the Main Stage to demystify the process of building a standout presence, from nailing your image to mastering the content creation cycle. Discover strategic tips for identifying your audience, completing the client journey “circle,” and producing a speaker reel that opens doors. Get practical advice for leveraging every platform, building an email list that’s your own personal stage, and designing authentic social content—without burnout. Diana shares her proven frameworks on content clarity, batching a year’s worth of material, and the importance of presenting yourself as the professional you aspire to be (with just the right amount of polish). Plus, you’ll hear why showing your human side creates the strongest speaker-audience bond, and how overcoming fear of rejection leads to deeper business connections. Episode Highlights: 00:00: The journey to becoming a successful speaker & content visibility02:00: Making content creation easy—for you and your audience05:27: The three essential legs of effective content07:34: Completing the client circle & building business from your content12:16: Why your image is your professional asset15:26: Authenticity vs. polish—finding your balance on camera19:33: Investing in the right speaker reel (and what not to do)22:01: How emerging speakers can create their own stages27:04: Producing a year of content in days (batching strategies)33:33: Building connection through personal storytelling and lifestyle38:05: Delegation, posting strategies, and picking your platforms41:22: Diana’s advice for new speakers—trust the process, enjoy the ride

Start, grow, and love your coaching business—without endless funnels or burnout! Learn how to turn your personal expertise into a thriving coaching practice while cutting your hours, clarifying your message, and focusing on what actually generates results. In this energizing episode, discover James Allen’s “Income Intersection” framework to pinpoint your profitable niche, build genuine client connections, and avoid the costly distractions that stall most new coaches and speakers. Whether you’re just beginning your speaking journey or looking to build a more impactful coaching career, you’ll find proven strategies to maximize your productivity, attract paying clients, and design a business you truly enjoy. The conversation focused on moving beyond the hustle-and-grind mentality—revealing how efficiency, authentic client interaction, and smart priorities lead to more freedom and greater fulfillment. One concept discussed was the power of small stages and authentic offers, while a key theme that emerged was how clarity and authentic connection outshine slick tech or fancy marketing materials. Episode Overview: 00:00: Introduction and the realities of building a speaking/coaching business02:03: What you really need to succeed (hint: not endless funnels or products)05:38: Discovering your profitable expertise: the “Income Intersection” framework10:56: Do less, earn more—the mindset and habits for efficiency14:40: Productivity principles for building a six-figure business in 20 hours/week23:12: Structuring your talk: the simple “hook, story, framework” method30:06: Call-to-action strategies without “selling from stage”36:28: Advice James would give his younger self and how to start taking action39:04: How to connect with James and wrap-up

Future-Proof Your Speaking Career with AI, Positioning, and Human Connection Learn how to stay ahead as a professional speaker in an AI-driven world! In this engaging episode, Li Hayes sits down with renowned “Tech Humanist” Kate O’Neill to tackle the burning question: Will AI replace speakers? You’ll find out why dynamic, deeply human skills remain irreplaceable—and how the best speakers adapt to emerging technology without losing their voice. Explore the secrets behind meaningful positioning (hint: why “two-word” positioning will set you apart), practical ways to use generative AI and research tools to level up your content and audience outreach, and how to stand out in both live and hybrid events. Kate shares her tested framework for finding your “X factor” as a speaker, why authentic relationship-building is your greatest asset, and how to keep your message relevant in a rapidly changing world. Highlights include how to blend technology with heart, future-ready tips for content creation and delivery, and the importance of presence—onstage and online. Whether you’re navigating virtual formats, trying to break the “2%” speaking barrier, or looking to keep your career thriving for the next decade, you’ll walk away with fresh insights, actionable advice, and renewed confidence. Episode Overview with Timestamps: 00:00: Introduction—big questions facing speakers in an AI era01:41: Are speakers at risk of being replaced by bots?03:14: The “seven badgers in a trench coat” problem with future of work and speaking04:46: Why the best keynote speakers are irreplaceable—and what parts are automatable05:47: Positioning: one-word vs. two-word (and why it matters more now)07:35: The resilience of live events post-Covid10:14: Hybrid, virtual, and in-person events in a climate-conscious world13:20: How to use generative AI in content creation responsibly17:22: Keeping your unique voice and trust in an AI-powered world20:19: Practical examples of using AI tools for industry research and outreach23:53: Should you add more tech to your talk? How to balance customization and universality28:51: The importance of NSA’s Influence conference for speakers30:07: Kate’s actionable “triple-circle” positioning strategy34:08: Sneak peek: Kate’s upcoming book on thriving in a weird, fast-changing world36:26: The one thing Kate would tell her younger self—and why relationships matter most40:03: Closing inspiration—keep showing up on your path to the main stage

A standout speaker website isn’t just about showing off — it’s about proving your value and making it crystal clear why planners should choose you. Whether you’re building your first site or refreshing an existing one, knowing exactly who you’re marketing to and how to make their decision easy is crucial. In this insightful episode, Li Hayes sits down with Lauren Pibworth, a veteran speaker marketing expert, to uncover what truly matters most on a speaker’s website. Expect blunt, real-world advice on crafting a powerful promise statement, avoiding common contact mistakes, making your site AI-friendly, showcasing real (not fake) stage presence, and ensuring your story delivers value – not just inspiration. Fast-paced, practical, and full of tough love, this episode is a blueprint for any speaker ready to book better gigs. Timestamped Overview 00:00 Episode Introduction: Why speaker websites matter02:37 The website as your “home” and proving credibility05:05 Must-have components for a winning speaker website07:20 The #1 starting point: Clarity on audience and offering10:14 Turning your story into a marketable solution13:29 Differentiating between audiences: buyers vs. attendees14:09 Crafting a powerful promise statement vs. just listing topics19:28 What must be above the fold on your site21:32 Contact information dos and don’ts26:22 Why forms are overrated (and risky!)31:15 Additional homepage elements: logos & sizzle reel33:13 Sizzle reels: Don’t fake it—show the real you38:03 Crafting your bio (and why AI won’t save you)40:06 What to include on topic and speaking pages41:43 Making your website AI-search friendly43:29 What meeting planners need and why45:43 Lauren Pibworth’s #1 advice for starting out47:31 Closing remarks and where to learn more

Learn how to heal and avoid speaker burnout. On this episode of Path to the Main Stage, Li Hayes welcomes burnout expert and keynote speaker Cait Donovan, who unpacks the hidden dangers of burnout—how it sabotages your mind and career—and delivers practical, science-backed strategies to reclaim your focus and effectiveness. Discover why burnout is more than a mindset issue, how small acts like "peeing when you need to pee" can strengthen your emotional regulation, why resentment is actually your superpower, and how speakers can set boundaries to avoid falling into the resentment trap when booking gigs. If you've ever felt overwhelmed, frantic, or stuck in a loop of giving too much with too little in return, this candid conversation will give you actionable tips and a positive path forward. Episode Overview 00:00 Introduction and Cait Donovan's background 02:09 Burnout defined by the World Health Organization 04:52 How stress physically changes your brain 06:30 The medical vs. mental aspects of burnout 07:11 Early warning signs and why burnout is hard to prevent 08:57 Difference between stress and full burnout 10:04 Yoga nidra and foundational self-care techniques 13:32 The power of interoception and listening to your body 14:30 Cait Donovan's podcast: Fried the Burnout Podcast 15:52 Step-by-step recovery and the role of resentment 16:21 Patterns that lead to burnout in speakers 18:13 Early stress responses: fight, flight, freeze, fawn, and "tend and befriend" 22:15 Why your network is your best resilience tool 24:28 How resentment signals what needs to change in your business 29:33 The resentment-generosity continuum and pricing for speakers 32:41 Tuning into your body and true self-awareness 35:49 Signs you're heading for burnout and when to get support 37:09 Cait Donovan's advice for her younger self and the permission to ask for help 38:15 Episode wrap-up and key takeaways

Discover how the government could pay you more and faster than you ever thought possible! In this eye-opening episode, Li Hayes teams up with government contracting insider Tony Chatman to bust the biggest myths about working with government agencies as a professional speaker. From unlocking secret hacks for landing contracts to breaking down step-by-step how to get started, this conversation is packed with actionable insights, expert shortcuts, and the real inside scoop on accessing the world’s largest buyer of professional services. Key highlights include: How Tony Chatman’s first government gig led to over $800,000 in businessWhat certifications actually matter (and why most are free and fast)Clever ways to bypass bureaucratic bottlenecks and get paid quicklyHow to turn a single free speech into contacts at 80+ government agenciesThe most in-demand topics federal clients are searching for nowConcrete pitfalls to avoid (hint: skip the giant paperwork traps) Whether you’re exploring government as a market or ready to level up your speaking career, this episode will change the way you think about selling to the public sector. Timestamped Overview [00:00] Show open & intro to guest [02:21] Why government speaking is a goldmine—and the common roadblocks [03:11] Tony Chatman’s backstory and first foray into federal gigs [05:02] How to break in: strategies that actually work [07:14] Tony Chatman’s first paid government engagement and results [08:03] Specific steps to get started (certifications, databases, networking) [13:25] Free gigs, paid gigs, and “speed dating” with agencies [16:00] The language and topics that unlock government doors [22:25] How the money flows: contracts, micro-purchases, and SF-182 [26:04] Forms, paperwork, and breaking big fees into smaller contracts [29:34] Do agencies talk? How word-of-mouth & career moves help [33:21] Industry associations and the real conference shortcuts [34:33] Regional offices and the “local” government angle [36:56] Why you can skip the GSA Schedule (unless you’re going BIG) [38:29] How and how fast you’ll actually get paid [39:04] Becoming “uniquely qualified” and closing non-bid contracts [43:46] Tony Chatman’s #1 advice for breaking into government work today [44:50] Wrap-up and where to go for more resources

Learn what event planners really want. In this eye-opening episode of Path to the Main Stage, Li Hayes sits down with veteran event planner and Club Ichi co-founder Liz Lathan to separate the myths from the realities of booking speaking gigs in the business events world. From unraveling the many roles of event professionals to understanding why celebrity name-dropping often doesn’t drive registrations, this conversation gives you the tactical insights you need to boost your own main stage journey. Key highlights include: Why joining the right organizations only works if you know your audience—and why networking alone isn't enough.How breakout sessions differ from main stage keynotes in terms of pay and prestige.The true value of “exposure” gigs and negotiating for value beyond just a paycheck.What planners look for on your website and why one great, clear snippet of you on stage could beat a flashy sizzle reel.Behind-the-scenes secrets from major corporate and association events, plus candid advice on publishing authority-building books without harming your brand.Liz Lathan’s decades-in-the-industry advice on connecting, influencing, and making sure you stand out with both planners and audiences. Don’t miss these actionable strategies to help you take your speaking career further, faster. Timestamped Overview: 00:00 Welcome, introductions, and Club Ichi explained 04:48 Components of event planning & the types of business events 06:18 What “call for speakers” really means and how it works 07:43 How planners actually search and select speakers 10:30 The real value of speaking for exposure 12:22 Who really picks the speakers at events? 13:02 Influence of various roles in event planning teams 14:38 Speaker showcases: how planners discover new talent 15:51 Differences between corporate and association events 18:19 Niching down: why being specific gets you hired 20:23 What planners look for on your website and demo reel 22:44 “Celebrity” vs. content: what actually drives registrations 26:21 How to get noticed if you’re not famous 28:02 Does having a book matter? The good, bad, and risky 33:01 Final advice: what Liz Lathan wishes she knew at the start 36:37 Closing remarks and wrap-up

Learn how to skyrocket your revenue by selling from the stage!  In this eye-opening episode, Steve Hopper reveals why offering value to your audience doesn't stop with your speech—and why failing to make an offer is a missed opportunity for both you and your listeners. Li Hayes dives deep with Steve Hopper on practical strategies for selling from the stage, building irresistible offers, leveraging free giveaways through funnels and QR codes, and maximizing your impact (and income) with books and live events. Whether you're just starting your speaking career or looking to level up your results, this conversation is loaded with actionable advice, confidence-building insights, and a reminder that your story matters—and your audience wants MORE. Timestamped Overview 00:00 Becoming a successful professional speaker and the importance of selling02:32 What to offer from the stage—and when you can't sell directly05:44 Capturing audience info seamlessly (QR codes & more)07:31 Building and using funnels: what makes a landing page great?12:04 What response rate should you expect from your offer?13:09 Diagnosing and improving weak offers15:24 Should you share the ‘how’ on stage—or just the ‘what’ and ‘why’?16:58 Best practices for selling books at events19:13 Should you host your own events? Pros, cons, and simple tips for success24:25 Charging for your event (or not), and how to keep costs low29:14 Final advice: start small, build confidence, and the biggest overlooked mindset for speakers32:09 The one thing Steve would tell his younger self: understanding your worth34:50 Episode outro and where to connect

What if your flashy speaker reel is actually costing you bookings? In this episode of “Path to the Main Stage,” Li Hayes sits down with Brittanny Kreutzer, partner at Speaker Exchange Agency and board member of the newly named GSIA, for an unfiltered look into what makes speakers irresistible—or instantly forgettable—to bureaus and clients. Discover the real insider criteria bureaus use to select speakers, why being authentic trumps being everything to everyone, and why shorter is NOT always better when it comes to demo reels. Brittanny Kreutzer also shares the biggest mistakes speakers make, what “celebrity” status really means in the speaking world, and the genuine power of saying "no" to the wrong stage. Packed with actionable tips on how to elevate your profile, update your materials, and become top-of-mind for bookers, this episode is a must-listen for anyone ready to take their speaking business seriously—and ethically. Timestamped Episode Overview: [00:00] Introduction and audience engagement[01:19] What is the International Association of Speaker Bureaus (GSIA)?[05:01] How speaker pricing and ethics are managed[05:56] Training and industry standards for bureaus[07:03] The role and value of speaker showcases[09:03] How bureaus scout and evaluate speakers in person[09:59] What makes a speaker stand out to bureaus[11:40] What bureaus look for on speaker websites[13:26] The pitfalls of AI-generated demo reels[14:52] Aligning topic and expertise with the right opportunities[16:20] Pet peeves: the mistakes speakers make with bureaus[18:52] Positive stories: what makes a speaker great to work with[20:37] Simple yet powerful ways speakers can help themselves[22:06] Are topics or celebrities more in demand? Defining “celebrity”[24:05] Niche fame vs. being broad—nailing your expertise[25:09] Creating exceptional client experiences as a speaker[27:14] When do you need an agent or bureau?[29:08] Speaker success stories and strategic “yes/no”[31:54] When to turn down stages (and why)[32:04] Final advice: stop comparing, be authentic, let demand set your value[34:04] Biggest surprise from a career in the speaking industry[35:42] Show wrap-up and invitation to connect

What if the secret to giving unforgettable talks isn’t perfect slides or endless practice—but jumping into freezing water at 6am and talking to stuffed animals? In this eye-opening episode, Li Hayes sits down with Darren Virassammy, TEDx speaker with over a million views, to reveal unconventional but powerful strategies any speaker can use to master the stage. From harnessing the power of nature to building mental anchors for nerves and flow, Darren Virassammy shares unique prep routines, explains why the best talks aren’t really about you, and offers practical tricks for both new and seasoned speakers. Learn how to turn chaos into confidence and discover the habits that will actually get you to the main stage. Timestamped Overview 00:00 Show intro, speaker backgrounds, and the power of nature03:41 Using nature to recalibrate for speaking04:23 Transition: How nature improves public speaking04:43 Preparing talks in wild environments and managing distractions06:55 Going “crazy”—prepping speeches in cold oceans09:46 Tamer exercises: why Darren Virassammy rehearses with stuffed animals12:17 Anchors, visualization, and handling audience nerves14:21 Flow state: using music and familiar habits to get ready18:18 Tricky details: diet, distractions, and managing nerves18:34 Writing vs. delivering: how to make your talk sound natural20:38 Scripting, “killing your darlings,” and time management22:31 The rehearsal valley: from robotic to natural delivery26:08 Crafting and repeating your main idea (“the block” or “hook”)28:33 Adapting to last-minute time cuts—optional blocks and flexibility30:23 Real-world example: making on-the-fly edits at major events31:28 Resilience and mental resets when things go wrong32:02 Advice for beginner speakers: don’t be too literal with outlines33:45 How to truly serve your audience36:36 Using questions to shift perspectives37:51 Individualizing for different audiences and reading the room38:58 Final wisdom: what Darren Virassammy would tell his younger self40:17 Wrap-up, actionable takeaways, and how to grow as a speaker