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The four seasons that most of us follow—winter, spring, summer and autumn—were developed in the northern hemisphere and were brought to Australia by Europeans. But First Nations people across Australia have recognised seasons in different ways for thousands of years, closely tied to the rhythms and cycles of local ecosystems. A few years ago, I was privileged to work with local Dja Dja Wurrung Elder Rick Nelson on a seasonal calendar for the Mount Alexander Shire region in central Victoria. The calendar recognises six seasons, and for each we described the cycles and changes happening in local bushlands. You can see the calendar here. I was really excited to later hear that my friend and local performing arts teacher Thais Sansom was working with Uncle Rick on a school concert about the Dja Dja Wurrung seasonal calendar. As part of the project, Thais invited me to visit Castlemaine Primary School and talk about local ecology, and I later attended the concert. It was incredible—a celebration and honouring of Dja Dja Wurrung culture and our local plants, animals and seasons. I sat down with Thais by Forest Creek in central Victoria to talk about the people and experiences that have inspired her work. These include being mentored by renowned naturalist and environmental educator Alan Reid, whose work on natural seasonal calendars helped inspire her teaching. She also shares the story of helping establish the Kingfisher Festival in the 1990s, celebrating the return of the Sacred Kingfisher to Merri Creek. Thais then tells us how the school concert brought the six seasons to life through music, dance and storytelling. We discuss working with local Elders, the generosity of their teachings, and how the project has inspired children to observe and connect with the natural world.

Many years ago, I began noticing some serious impacts on bushland following planned burns, or fuel-reduction burns. I was seeing the loss of old trees, destruction of rare and threatened plants, loss of habitat, and impacts on native fauna. But over time, something else became even more concerning. These burns were being carried out with the aim of reducing fuel loads, yet in many places I was seeing the opposite. Burning was stimulating dense recruitment of shrubs and other fire-responsive pioneer species, and changing the structure and condition of the vegetation. In some places, within a few years of being burnt, the vegetation seemed denser and potentially more flammable than it had been before the burn. I've done quite a lot of work in this space myself, and I won't go into all of that here. But if you're interested, I gave a talk for the Victorian Forest Alliance looking at some of these issues, which you can view here: https://www.victorianforestalliance.org.au/recording_karl_just_webinar When I started digging more deeply into the science behind what I was observing, one researcher whose work really stood out to me was Associate Professor Phil Zylstra. Phil is a fire ecologist and fire-behaviour scientist, but importantly, he didn't come to fire purely from an academic background. Before and during the early years of his research career, he worked in fire management and as a remote-area firefighter in the Snowy Mountains. So his understanding of fire comes from both working with it on the ground and studying it scientifically. Over many years, Phil has investigated some really fundamental questions about how fire actually behaves in Australian forests and how vegetation changes following fire. He's developed sophisticated fire-behaviour models that look beyond simply how much fuel is present, to consider things like the species involved, plant traits, vegetation structure and how those characteristics influence whether and how a fire spreads. A major focus of his work has been on what happens to the flammability of forests as they recover from disturbance. His research has challenged the relatively simple idea that older vegetation necessarily means more fuel and therefore greater fire risk. Instead, his work shows that in some forest ecosystems there can be a period of increased flammability as dense vegetation regenerates after fire, followed by a decline in flammability as the forest matures, plants self-thin and the structure of the vegetation changes. That was particularly fascinating to me because Phil was finding, through detailed and peer-reviewed research, patterns that were very similar to things I'd been observing in the field for years. In the podcast we talk about what actually happens to vegetation following fire, how fuels and flammability change as ecosystems recover, and whether repeatedly burning forests to reduce fuel can sometimes have the unintended consequence of maintaining them in a younger, denser and more flammable state. We also get into some of the broader complexities of fire ecology: the relationship between fire and vegetation, the effects of repeated burning on ecosystems and biodiversity, and what the evidence tells us about how we might manage bushfire risk differently in the future. I also want to give a quick plug for a Eucalypt Identification and Ecology Course that Vicky Shukuroglou will be running, and that I'll be helping to teach. The course runs over four days across October and November 2026, and we'll visit a range of very different ecosystems around Melbourne — from tall, wet mountain forests to much drier woodlands in the west. We'll see a wide diversity of eucalypts, learn how to identify them, and, importantly, explore their ecology and their relationships with the landscapes and ecosystems in which they occur. If you would like to learn more about the course, please visit Vicky's website at: https://eucalyptsmelbourne.au/course/

What does it take to restore diversity to a profoundly altered landscape? And how do we accept and work within novel ecosystems when there is no intact reference point to guide us? It was a real treat to sit down with one of the best restoration ecologists I know, Ian Higgins. On a cold winter’s day near Campbells Creek, Ian showed me what decades of patient, thoughtful restoration can achieve. When Ian first came to the area, there were just five individual wattles along Campbells Creek between Castlemaine and Guildford. Today, following years of care by the Friends of Campbells Creek, there are thousands. But the restoration effort has extended far beyond trees and shrubs. In a grazing-exclusion plot about the size of a house block, Ian has established more than 100 indigenous plant species, including locally rare and threatened species. For Ian, however, establishing a plant is only the beginning. The true measure of success is whether it can reproduce, recruit new individuals and ultimately become part of a self-sustaining ecosystem. Our conversation explores the enormous legacy of gold mining, clearing, grazing, weeds and fertiliser—and the difficulty of restoring landscapes where almost nothing remains to tell us exactly what was once there. We discuss soil fertility, phosphorus, grazing exclusion, direct seeding, climate change and the sometimes-blurry distinction between indigenous, introduced and locally invasive plants. Above all, this is a conversation about experimentation, patience and hope. Ian’s work shows that restoration does not necessarily mean recreating an imagined past. It can mean working carefully with the landscape that remains, learning from successes and failures, and helping diversity return—one seedling at a time.

I have always believed that the way we raise children, and the opportunities we give them to deeply experience and connect with the natural world, can be a powerful way to create a better future. So much of the destruction we see around us stems from a disconnection from nature that often begins in childhood. There is also a growing body of evidence showing that time spent in nature can improve children’s happiness, wellbeing, attention and emotional regulation, with particularly strong benefits for some children experiencing symptoms associated with ADHD and other forms of neurodivergence. It was therefore a great pleasure to sit down with my friend Nectar while we were attending a nature camp beside the beautiful Clyde River in southern New South Wales. Nectar is the founder of Punk Caterpillar: Wild Nature for Kids, a program she has been running for more than five years. Through child-led play, exploration, practical skills, shared meals, storytelling and time around the fire, Punk Caterpillar gives children and teenagers the freedom to express their wild nature, develop relationships with the living world and learn alongside older mentors. In this conversation, we explore how Punk Caterpillar began, what happens during its gatherings and why children need opportunities to move, play, explore and simply be themselves. We discuss the strengths that can emerge when children who struggle in conventional classrooms are given space outdoors, the importance of mentors with different personalities and gifts and the deeper sense of belonging that comes from being held within a community. Ultimately, our conversation expands beyond nature education to ask how we might rebuild a village around children—and, in doing so, create healthier, more connected communities for everyone.

After more than 20 years working in ecology, I have come to realise that beekeepers, or apiarists, often possess a more detailed understanding of eucalypt flowering than anyone else. Their knowledge extends far beyond when particular trees flower, encompassing eucalypt ecology, geographic variation and the relationships between species, climate and soils. Few people embody this knowledge more remarkably than Stuart Fraser. Now in his eighties, Stuart is a lifelong beekeeper who has spent much of his life travelling through forests with bees and closely observing the flowering cycles of eucalypts. He is part of a family beekeeping lineage stretching back more than a century, through which an extraordinary body of ecological knowledge has been observed, tested and passed from one generation to the next. As Stuart once said to me, when your livelihood depends on something, you tend to pay attention. I wanted to introduce Stuart to Vicky Shukuroglou, author of Ace Guide to Eucalypts Melbourne, whom I interviewed for Episode 19, and this episode brings together a conversation between the three of us. We explore the immense honey-producing landscapes known by earlier generations, including forests where nectar reportedly fell from the flowers and gathered on the ground. Stuart shares his remarkable knowledge of the flowering cycles and geographic variation of Ironbark, Grey Box, Yellow Box, River Red Gum and the mallees, and explains how beekeepers read budding patterns, rainfall, soils and even the overall appearance of a tree to anticipate whether it will yield nectar. We also reflect on land clearing, declining insects, climate change, fire, Varroa mite and the irreplaceable value of ecological knowledge built through generations of close observation. Five key lessons from the interview: Eucalypt flowering follows complex cycles. Different species set buds and flower over periods ranging from months to several years, influenced by the timing of rainfall, heat and seasonal growth. Flowers do not necessarily mean nectar. A tree can be covered in blossom yet produce little nectar; experienced beekeepers learn to recognise whether a flowering event will actually yield. The same eucalypt species varies enormously across the landscape. Yellow Box, Grey Box and River Red Gum can differ in appearance, flowering time and nectar production according to location, soils and local conditions. Historic nectar flows were vastly greater than today. Stuart described forests where nectar reportedly dripped from flowers and collected on the ground, supporting immense numbers of insects, birds and commercial beehives. Generational observation creates exceptional ecological knowledge. Stuart’s understanding was built through decades of experience and knowledge passed down by earlier beekeepers whose livelihoods depended on closely reading trees, weather and landscapes.

What does it really mean to listen? For Andrew Skeoch, listening is far more than hearing sounds or identifying bird calls. It is the foundation of relationship—a practice that invites us to pay attention, to be influenced and ultimately to learn from the living world. Drawing on more than three decades of recording wild soundscapes, Andrew reflects on what birds, ecosystems and the remarkable lives of other species can teach us. Together, we explore why nature is better understood as a web of relationships than a collection of separate parts, and ask what might become possible if we approached the world with greater curiosity, humility and attention. Andrew Skeoch is a naturalist, environmental thinker, educator and one of Australia's best-known sound recordists. For more than three decades, he has recorded wild soundscapes across Australia and around the world through Listening Earth. He is the author of Deep Listening to Nature, which explores how listening can deepen our understanding of the natural world and our relationship with it. You can find about more about Andrew, including where to hear his recordings and buy his book here

How well do we really know the trees around us? In this episode I sit down with multidisciplinary artist, ecologist and author Vicky Shukuroglou to talk about eucalypts — those familiar yet endlessly fascinating trees that shape much of the Australian landscape. Vicky shares the story behind her new field guide - Ace Guide to Eucalypts Melbourne - exploring what inspired the project and the immense effort involved in bringing it to life. What begins as a conversation about the guide soon becomes an exploration of observation itself: how we learn to recognise trees, what classification can and cannot tell us, and how deeper attention reveals an extraordinary world of variation, relationships and stories. Together we discuss Melbourne's diverse landscapes, from dry western plains and Ironbark forests to towering Mountain Ash country, exploring the ecology, evolution and cultural significance of these remarkable trees. Along the way we talk about conservation, habitat, climate change, the value of local knowledge and the importance of fostering a genuine relationship with the living world. Through art, writing, community learning and ecological practice, Vicky encourages people to develop more attentive and meaningful relationships with place. Vicky is co-author and photographer of the book Loving Country and has spent many years exploring the connections between creativity, ecology, culture and care for Country. Her latest book, Ace Guide to Eucalypts Melbourne, can be ordered online at:  www.eucalyptsmelbourne.au. Visit the Facebook page – here.

Botanic gardens are sometimes viewed as rather static places — collections of plants, all neatly labelled. But as today's guest explains, they are so much more than that. In this episode I sit down with Professor Tim Entwistle, botanist, author and former director of three major botanic gardens including Melbourne, Sydney and Kew Gardens in London. We explore the origins of botanic gardens, from the medicinal gardens of Renaissance Italy through to the great botanic gardens of today. Tim describes how modern gardens combine science, education, culture and recreation, becoming places where people can learn, celebrate and connect with the living world. We discuss some of Australia's most significant gardens, including Melbourne's Royal Botanic Gardens and the Australian Garden at Cranbourne, as well as the important role played by regional botanic gardens across Victoria and beyond. Along the way we talk about plant collections, herbaria, seasonal calendars, First Nations knowledge, climate change adaptation and the future of urban green spaces. Tim also shares the story of a beloved 150-year-old oak tree in Melbourne's Royal Botanic Gardens and how its legacy inspired his latest book. Tim Entwistle is a botanist, writer and public communicator who has spent decades helping people better understand plants and their place in our lives. His books include Evergreen, The Skeptical Botanist and the forthcoming Three Worlds Oak. Find out more about Tim at his blog:  https://talkingplants.blogspot.com/ For comments, feedback or requests for future content on Just Ecology, please email [email protected]

Mosses, along with their cousins the liverworts and hornworts, make up the world of the bryophytes, fascinating plants that have been on this planet for well over 400 million years. I sat down with Dr Cassia Read to explore these amazing plants, where we talk about where to find them, how different species are identified, why classification is important and the critical roles of bryophytes in our ecosystems. Cassia spent years studying and researching bryophytes in the drier semi-arid parts of south-eastern Australia, a place where many don’t expect to find these plants, and we learn about how mosses survive in such dry conditions. We also discuss the role of mosses in ecological restoration, and the emerging possibilities of including bryophytes in the healing of degraded lands. Cassia is an ecologist, educator and garden designer whose work centres on creating landscapes that support both human wellbeing and biodiversity conservation in a changing climate. Her interests span landscape ecology, planting design, climate adaptation, urban greening, wildlife gardening and community engagement, and she has conducted fieldwork across a wide range of ecosystems throughout southern Australia. She is a co-founder of the Castlemaine Institute, an organisation focused on strengthening regional communities through research, education and collaborative responses to social and environmental challenges. For comments, feedback or requests for future content on Just Ecology, please email [email protected]

It was a real privilege to interview Doug Frood, one of Victoria’s most experienced ecologists, and someone who is widely respected for his depth of perception and understanding of landscape patterns and processes. Reading these patterns, from the micro to the macro, is one of the core skills of field ecology. Similar to how our ancestors lived on Country before the time of cities and supermarkets, ecology relies on distinguishing between thousands of plant species, , noticing subtle differences in habitats, reading tracks and listening to place. In the podcast we delve into some of these patterns, including how different types of plant communities are distributed across the landscape. We begin by exploring what a plant community is, how it forms, and what influences where it occurs, before moving into the complex interactions between ecological processes over deep time. We talk about Doug’s years of work mapping vegetation patterns across parts of the Victorian Riverina, and the blend of intuitive and scientific approaches involved. We also talk about Doug’s passion for connecting people with nature, pondering how humans have at times become so disconnected and how we can find a path back to wholeness. Doug has been one of my most influential teachers over the last 20 years and I am really grateful that he took time for this conversation. You can check out more about Doug's work here For comments, feedback or requests for future content on Just Ecology, please email [email protected]

Environmental law is meant to protect nature—but how well does it actually work? In this episode, I sit down with Brendan Sydes to unpack the realities behind the legal frameworks shaping conservation in Australia. Brendan is an environmental lawyer and policy expert with decades of experience across the sector. He is currently with the Australian Conservation Foundation, where he works on environmental advocacy and legal reform, and has previously held senior roles with the Environmental Defenders Office. He is also President of Connecting Country and Chair of the Biolinks Alliance, bringing a strong focus on community-led conservation and landscape-scale restoration. We trace the evolution of environmental law over the past century—from its early focus on resource use to the rise of threatened species protections and national parks from the 1970s onwards. We dig into the limitations of the current system, including how legal frameworks can sometimes enable development rather than prevent it, and the uncomfortable reality that it’s often the community trying to protect nature from government. Brendan also walks us through the proposed reforms to the national EPBC Act—changes that have been on the table for years but remain largely unimplemented. A key theme throughout the conversation is that laws, on their own, don’t protect the environment—they create the framework. Their effectiveness ultimately depends on how governments apply and enforce them - and how communities hold them to account. I hope this podcast is useful for anyone who is trying to protect their local patch.

In this episode, I sit down with Frances Cincotta to talk about growing locally indigenous plants. Frances founded the Newstead Natives nursery in central Victoria in 1999 and has spent decades immersed in the ecology and restoration of the Box–Ironbark region. We trace the evolution of gardening in Australia—from its European roots in English cottage traditions to a growing recognition of the value and beauty of native species—and what that shift means for how we relate to the landscapes around us. Frances shares the depth of ecological knowledge behind successful indigenous plant propagation: understanding where species occur in the wild, when seed is ready and how to sow it. We also talk about the value of indigenous gardens as habitat for native wildlife - and how they bring ecology right to our back doorstep. Frances’ knowledge is remarkable, and this is one for anyone interested in plants, restoration or simply seeing their local bushland in a new way. For comments, feedback or requests for future content on Just Ecology, please email [email protected]

In this episode I speak with ecologist and musician Sean McConnell, who also performs his song Baarka Ballad, written about the plight of the Baarka (Darling River). We talk about Sean’s experiences growing up in the Riverina through cycles of drought and flood, and the extraordinary biodiversity of the region’s floodplain forests and wetlands. We discuss the evidence of Barapa villages across the floodplain, documented in Koondrook State Forest on the NSW side of the river, including extensive pond systems that were used to harvest fish. Our conversation reflects on the profound changes that have occurred since colonisation: river regulation, widespread land clearing, the early land grabs by squatters and selectors and the short-lived economic booms that were so often accompanied by long-term environmental degradation. Sean shares what inspired him to write Baarka Ballad: the heartbreaking mass fish kill on the Baarka in 2021, the remarkable voyage of Tuesday Browell down the river in an Egyptian-style handmade wooden boat to draw attention to its plight and the ongoing illegal extraction of water across the Murray–Darling Basin. Finally, we talk about the power of music to help us process and transmute feelings of helplessness in the face of ongoing environmental destruction, and how the ancient practice of singing to Country has long been part of maintaining life and relationship. A research paper on Barapa villages and constructed ponds can be found here. Listen to some of Sean's music here.  For comments, feedback or requests for future content on Just Ecology, please email [email protected]

Many listeners would be familiar with the highly skilled use of fire to manage vegetation that has been practiced by First Nations peoples of Australia for thousands of years. What surprised me was learning that my own ancestors were also using fire to shape parts of the landscape across what is now the United Kingdom — in some places for more than five thousand years. Curious about this long history, I reached out to one of the leading authorities on the subject – Matt Davies. Matt is a leading expert in fire ecology and land management, currently serving as the Director of Agriculture for the Falkland Islands Government. He is internationally recognized for his extensive research on muirburn—the traditional Scottish practice of managed heather burning—— and on the complex relationships between fire, biodiversity and carbon in these landscapes. In this conversation we explore the long history of fire use across parts of the U.K., stretching back to the end of the last Ice Age. We discuss how the combined influences of burning, grazing and clearing helped shape the distinctive heather moorlands we see today. Matt explains what these heather ecosystems look like, how burning practices changed during the upheavals of the Industrial Revolution, and how fire became central to the management of grouse shooting estates. We also explore the contemporary debate about whether burning should now be phased out to encourage forest expansion, or whether more nuanced approaches might recognise the ecological and cultural value of these long-managed landscapes. Some of Matt's research can be found here: Moorland Burning Research and here: https://scholar.google.fr/citations?user=CslCJjcAAAAJ&hl=th For comments, feedback or requests for future content on Just Ecology, please email [email protected]

In this episode I sat down with botanist and ecologist Kate Bennetts to explore the floodplain forests and wetlands of the Riverina. With more than two decades of experience at the forefront of wetland restoration, Kate brings deep insight into how water — and the loss of it — shapes these great riverine landscapes. As Principal of Fire, Flood & Flora, she has dedicated her career to understanding how these ecosystems function, decline and recover. We begin by exploring what makes floodplain forests and wetlands so ecologically rich and distinctive. From there, the conversation turns to the profound changes these landscapes have undergone — the displacement of First Peoples, widespread tree clearing and the alteration of natural flooding regimes. Kate explains how environmental water allocations work in practice, and why carefully timed flows are critical to sustaining River Red Gum forests and the diverse wetland plant communities beneath them. We also delve into history, reflecting on observations from the 1850s Blandowski Expedition, and discuss recent research Kate has been involved in examining the allelopathic effects of Red Gum leaf litter on wetland vegetation. The episode finishes with a discussion about Kate’s on-ground restoration — including collaborative work with Traditional Owners — and what it will take to ensure these floodplain ecosystems remain resilient in a drying and highly regulated river system. If you have time before the 1st of May 2026, please make a submission for the updated Murray Darling Basin Plan, calling for more environmental water for our rivers wetlands: https://getinvolved.mdba.gov.au/2026basinplanreview Links to the 1970's research on the allelopathic effect of Red Gum leaves can be found here: https://www.jstor.org/stable/2424020 Links to the the recent research on the allelopathic effect of Red Gum leaves that we discussed can be found here: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/emr.70031?af=R Some of the books mentioned in the podcast: Encyclopaedia of Aboriginal Life by William Blandowski The Victorian Bush: its Original and Natural Condition by Ron Hateley