Advertise on podcast: The Long Game with Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer

PHOTO CREDIT China experts Jessica Chen Weiss, David M. Lampton Professor of China Studies at Johns Hopkins SAIS, and Julian Gewirtz, fellow at Harvard’s Belfer Center and senior research scholar at Columbia University, join Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer ahead of Chinese President Xi Jinping’s state visit to Washington. What does Xi hope to secure from President Trump—and what should the United States seek in return? Could the current truce become a durable détente, or is the relationship moving in two directions at once: greater stability at the top and deeper competition underneath? And as concern grows about advanced AI, can Washington and Beijing reduce the risks without resolving their fundamental distrust? The conversation also examines Taiwan, rare-earth export controls, China’s expanding global role, and the choices that could shape the relationship long after this week’s summit. For paid subscribers, Jake and Jon break down President Trump’s United Nations General Assembly speech in a special segment. Subscribe to Long Game + on Apple or Substack for access and to support the show.  Access video versions of exclusive podcast segments, transcripts, and more on Substack: https://thelonggame.substack.com/ Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@podlonggame Email Jake and Jon at [email protected]. Follow The Long Game so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop weekly. The Long Game is produced by the Vox Media Podcast Network. Photo Credit:  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Reports that the U.S. Navy nearly boarded a Chinese ship after an AI-assisted intelligence assessment wrongly flagged nuclear-related cargo offer a glimpse of how quickly a failure could become an international crisis. In this exclusive segment for The Long Game+ subscribers, Jake and Jon and their guests, China experts Jessica Chen Weiss and Julian Gewirtz, analyze what this near miss means for the future of AI safety and the US-China relationship. They also weigh in on whether Chinese leadership would prefer a President J.D. Vance or a Democratic White House in 2029. If you’re not yet a subscriber to The Long Game+, now is a great time to upgrade. You'll get access to exclusive podcast segments and help support our work. Photo Credit: ANTHONY WALLACE/AFP via Getty Images

At the United Nations, President Trump threatened to “annihilate” Iran, declared that “to the victor belong the spoils” while discussing Venezuela, and dismissed warnings about AI safety as another hoax. In this exclusive segment for The Long Game+ subscribers, Jake and Jon unpack what Trump’s language reveals about how he views American power and how he intends to use it next. They also ask whether this was his last uncontested turn on the world stage before the 2028 campaign shifts attention to who comes next. If you’re not yet a subscriber to The Long Game+, now is a great time to upgrade. You'll get access to exclusive podcast segments and help support our work.

Julia Curlee, a former CIA analyst and acting senior director at the National Security Council, joins Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer to explain why she believes America’s intelligence system is being weakened from within. Curlee also discusses her experience briefing Vice President Mike Pence and why she left government after nearly 20 years. After the interview, Then to argue for and against reaching a deal with the U.S. and continuing  Beijing’s open-weight strategy. Access video versions of exclusive podcast segments, transcripts, and more on Substack: https://thelonggame.substack.com/ Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@podlonggame Email Jake and Jon at [email protected]. Follow The Long Game so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop weekly. The Long Game is produced by the Vox Media Podcast Network. Photo Credit : Julia Curlee  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Former CIA analyst Julia Curlee warns that the loss of experienced intelligence professionals may outlast any one administration. The challenge is not only rebuilding institutions, but restoring the trust needed to bring public servants back. In this excerpt from the full episode, Jake and Jon break down what recovery could require and whether new technology should change how intelligence reaches the president. Available to paid subscribers. Photo Credit: Julia Curlee

Chinese President Xi Jinping has embarked on a rare stretch of state visits around the world. Why now—and what could they reveal about his strategy ahead of his summit with President Trump in Washington later this month? In this paid-subscriber edition of The Wrap, Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer go beyond the headlines to explain what they believe will shape the weeks ahead. They also share what they’re watching and reading and take an honest look at their Iran war prediction that may not have held up. Upgrade to hear the kind of candid, forward-looking conversation Jake and Jon once had at the end of the day in the White House. Email Jake and Jon your questions and comments at [email protected] Photo Credit: Khaled DESOUKI / POOL / AFP via Getty Images

25 Years After 9/11: Admiral McRaven’s Warning for America Retired Admiral William H. McRaven, former commander of U.S. Special Operations Command and Joint Special Operations Command, joins Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer as the country marks the 25th anniversary of 9/11. McRaven recalls watching the attacks while recovering from a parachute accident, and later planning and executing the operation that brought Osama bin Laden to justice. They also examine why the Trump administration’s unexplained removal of senior military leaders could weaken candid advice and military preparedness; how special operations must adapt from counterterrorism to competition with major powers; and why America’s alliances remain essential to its security. Access video versions of exclusive podcast segments, transcripts, and more on Substack: https://thelonggame.substack.com/ Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@podlonggame Email Jake and Jon at [email protected]. Follow The Long Game so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop weekly. The Long Game is produced by the Vox Media Podcast Network. Photo credit:  TSgt Rob Hazelett, PublicDomain Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent says the U.S. is entering “the endgame” with Iran, launching what he calls an “economic D-Day.” Closer to home, U.S.-Canada trade talks have collapsed after Prime Minister Mark Carney rejected Washington’s latest demands.  Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer examine whether Operation Economic Outcast can change Iran’s calculus, why China holds the key, and why Canadians are backing a trade fight they expect to hurt. They also stage a Red Team/Blue Team debate over President Trump’s new cyber memo, which allows private companies to conduct offensive operations against foreign cybercriminals. Jon makes the case for the so-called cyber privateers, while Jake lays out the risks. Subscribe to The Long Game+ on Apple podcasts or on Substack for access to exclusive segments. This week, Jake and Jon tackle two listener questions: What should we make of CIA Director John Ratcliffe’s unannounced trip to Moscow? And, how did Jake and Jon manage the physical and mental toll of their years as national security advisors?  Video versions of exclusive podcast segments, transcripts, and more available on Substack: https://thelonggame.substack.com/ Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@podlonggame Email Jake and Jon at [email protected]. Follow The Long Game so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop weekly. The Long Game is produced by the Vox Media Podcast Network. Photo by ANDREJ IVANOV / AFP via Getty Images Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Why did CIA Director John Ratcliffe make an unannounced trip to Moscow, and why use an intelligence back channel? In this exclusive Mailbag segment for subscribers, Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer consider what message Ratcliffe may have carried, from a possible warning about Russian escalation against NATO countries to an Iran-related appeal or a new piece of intelligence demanding immediate attention. Then, Jake and Jon answer a question about how they protected their physical and mental health during years of long hours and interrupted sleep at the White House. Email Jake and Jon your questions and comments at [email protected] Photo by Molly Riley/The White House via Getty Images

What happens when abuses of power stop shocking the public? In this exclusive segment for Long Game+ subscribers, Patrick Radden Keefe, Jake Sullivan, and Jon Finer examine how outrage fatigue can become a culture of impunity. They discuss President Trump’s willingness to say the quiet part out loud and whether repeated norm-breaking makes corruption feel inevitable. Patrick warns that the cynicism may spread far beyond politics, creating a Lance Armstrong-style logic: If everyone else is cheating, only a fool follows the rules. Email Jake and Jon at [email protected] with your thoughts and questions. Photo by Tim de Waele/Corbis via Getty Images

Acclaimed investigative journalist and New Yorker staff writer Patrick Radden Keefe joins Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer to discuss his new book, London Falling.  They discuss London’s dirty-money economy, “Say Nothing” and the unfinished business of the Good Friday Agreement, whether the CIA helped spread the Scorpions’ “Wind of Change” behind the Iron Curtain, what a year inside the Pentagon taught Patrick about Washington, and why powerful people rarely see themselves as villains. At the end, Patrick, Jake and Jon share their summer reading list. In an exclusive segment for subscribers to The Long Game+ on Apple or Substack: Patrick, Jake, and Jon examine how Trump-era impunity and outrage fatigue can normalize corruption.  Access to video versions of exclusive podcast segments, transcripts, and more on Substack: https://thelonggame.substack.com/ Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@podlonggame Email Jake and Jon at [email protected]. Follow The Long Game so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop weekly. The Long Game is produced by the Vox Media Podcast Network. Photo credit: Albert Llop/NurPhoto via Getty Images Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Polish Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Radosław “Radek” Sikorski joins Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer to assess Europe’s security at a moment of growing strain in the transatlantic alliance. They discuss whether Europe can deter Russia with a reduced US military presence, how NATO should respond to Russian sabotage and possible false-flag operations, and whether America can still be counted on if Article 5 is tested. Sikorski also lays out Ukraine’s possible path to victory, the pressure building on Russia’s economy, the prospects for tougher sanctions, China’s leverage over Vladimir Putin, and why he sees the European Union as a strategic shield for Poland and Ukraine. Then, Jake and Jon discuss Sikorski’s strikingly cautious assessment of the US commitment to NATO—and revisit the closest they came to an Article 5 crisis while serving in the Biden administration. For subscribers to The Long Game+ on Apple Podcasts: Jake and Jon break down the FCC’s new restrictions on foreign-made humanoid robots and connected power inverters—and what the action reveals about the widening US technology competition with China. Subscribe to The Long Game on Substack for access to video versions of exclusive podcast segments, transcripts, and more: https://thelonggame.substack.com/ Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@podlonggame Email Jake and Jon at [email protected]. Follow The Long Game so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop weekly. The Long Game is produced by the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The FCC has imposed new restrictions on foreign-made humanoid robots and on connected power inverters used across the energy system. Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer break down the national-security case for the move and why it is aimed primarily at China. They also debate where the government should draw the line as cars, appliances, and other everyday products become connected and capable of collecting data and whether import restrictions can buy the United States enough time to build competitive domestic industries. This exclusive segment is available to subscribers of The Long Game+ on Apple Podcasts. Email Jake and Jon at [email protected] with your thoughts and questions.

Zelensky just fired his defense minister, his top general, and his prime minister in a single reshuffle — and thousands of Ukrainians poured into the streets. Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer unpack what's really driving it: a generational war over how to fight, Zelensky's wariness of rivals who outshine him, and a reckoning over corruption in military procurement. They trace how Ukraine's homegrown drone industry — now the front line of the war — grew out of a 2023 "tech sprint," and why it may soon make Ukraine one of the world's largest arms exporters. Then, Iran. With the ceasefire dead and the Strait of Hormuz closed, Jake and Jon reopen their "options memo" — keep striking, cut a deal, go for a knockout blow, or walk away.  Subscribe to The Long Game on Substack for access to exclusive podcast segments, transcripts, and more: https://thelonggame.substack.com/ Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube. Email Jake and Jon at [email protected]. Follow The Long Game so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop weekly. The Long Game is produced by the Vox Media Podcast Network. Photo credit: Danylo Antoniuk/Anadolu via Getty Images Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this subscriber-only mailbag, Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer take two listener questions. First: FBI Director Kash Patel is reportedly planning an October trip to Moscow and St. Petersburg. How unusual is that — and why would an FBI director go to Russia? Jake and Jon on the "highly suspect" two-city tour, Patel's taste for quasi-tourist official travel, the risk of an FSB propaganda win, and the slim chance there's a serious purpose behind it. Then: what to make of Andy Burnham becoming UK prime minister. With a thin foreign policy record and no relationship with Trump, the early tells are his appointments — Jonathan Powell staying on as National Security Advisor, Ed Miliband as foreign secretary, and John Healy, who once resigned over defense spending, now running the budget as chancellor. (Photo by Anna Moneymaker/Getty Images) Have a question for Jake and Jon? Email [email protected]. Join The Long Game+ on Apple Podcasts for exclusive podcast segments. The Long Game is produced by the Vox Media Podcast Network.