Advertise on podcast: Attorney Biz Dev

She started with zero clients, zero money, and zero strategy. Eight years later, she's one of the most followed attorneys in Vienna, with an audience most law firm marketing budgets could never buy. Bill Burns and Tobi Steinemann welcome their very first guest to the show: Therese Frank, an insurance litigator, yoga studio owner, speaker, and feminist from Vienna, Austria. After ten years at a major Austrian law firm ended without a partnership offer, Therese built her own practice from nothing, and turned to social media because it was the one form of marketing she could actually afford.  You'll hear: Why Therese started posting with zero strategy, and why that's still true today, eight years and thousands of followers later The four content pillars she built her entire personal brand around, and why mixing them made her more credible, not less Her honest take on measuring ROI from social media, and why "I wouldn't be where I am without it" is sometimes the only answer that matters How she handles real online backlash, including the vicious pile-on that followed her own wedding photo Why being an attorney shields her from some of the worst of it, and exactly where that shield stops What she tells young attorneys, especially women, who say they don't have time for business development This episode is especially relevant for: Attorneys who are looking for ways to start or improve their personal brand Professionals weighing the real tradeoffs of visibility Anyone who has used "no time" as a reason to stay off social media If you're waiting for the perfect strategy before you post anything, Therese has one piece of advice: stop waiting.

Every partner retires eventually. Every lateral hire leaves a firm behind. So why do so few law firms have a real plan for what happens to the client relationship when they do? In this episode, Bill and Tobi tackle succession planning, a topic most firms treat as an afterthought until it becomes urgent. They dig into why the incentives are often stacked against a smooth handoff, what a good transition actually looks like in practice, and why this is as much a culture question as a financial one. You'll hear: Why "the client belongs to the firm" often isn't true once only one attorney holds the relationship, and why firm size changes the odds of retention The compensation trap: why year-by-year billing credit discourages attorneys from investing in a multi-year handoff A concrete incentive structure for retiring partners, split billing and a shared reward tied to client retention over a three-year transition Why clients themselves are often the biggest obstacle to a proper handoff, and how to reframe that conversation as an investment in the relationship The step-by-step path from team member to trusted advisor: attending client meetings, earning a speaking role, visiting the client's office, and becoming the person the client calls directly A real story about a fifteen-year client relationship that survived a textbook transition between two advisors This episode is especially relevant for: Senior partners starting to think about their own exit Younger attorneys wondering why they aren't getting deeper client access Firm leaders designing compensation and mentorship structures If your firm doesn't have an answer for what happens when a key partner walks out the door, whether by choice or by clock, this is the place to start.

Digital marketing still feels like foreign territory to a lot of attorneys, something separate from "real" legal marketing, something they're reluctant to fully invest in. It isn't. It's the same game it's always been, just played on a different field. In this episode, Bill and Tobi break down what digital legal marketing actually is, and why the fundamentals haven't changed nearly as much as attorneys think. You'll hear: Why legal marketing has always come down to four things: content, people marketing, networking, and referrals, and why digital is just a new format for the same game Why neglecting your website bio might be your biggest mistake How one article, published eight years earlier, landed a partner a brand-new client, and why online content works completely differently than a printed brochure ever could The real equation behind client trust: why expertise without visibility, or visibility without expertise, both fall flat Three principles for cutting through a crowded LinkedIn feed This episode is especially relevant for: Young associates trying to build a digital footprint from scratch Partners whose bio hasn't been touched in years Anyone deciding where limited marketing time and budget should actually go Your digital footprint is working for you around the clock, whether you're in a client meeting or on the beach. The question is whether it's saying the right thing.

Acquiring a new client can cost upwards of $25,000 and take one to two years of work, with conversion rates as low as 2–10%. Meanwhile, increasing client retention by just 5% can boost profits by more than 25%.   So why do most law firms still treat existing clients with nothing more than a holiday card and an annual barbecue? In this episode, Tobi and Bill dig into the traps firms fall into once a client is "won". And they discuss what it actually takes to keep them, and grow with them, over the long haul. You'll hear: Why a happy client and a loyal client are not the same thing and why firms quietly lose business by assuming they are The simple post-project debrief most firms skip, and why it builds trust instead of just closing a file Why "appreciate, want, and enjoy" are three words worth saying out loud to a client more often The risk of single-contact relationships, and what happens to the client when that one person leaves the firm Why responsiveness, not strategy, is the single biggest complaint clients have about their lawyers How a CRM only works if someone treats it the way painters treat the Golden Gate Bridge This episode is especially relevant for: Partners who assume good legal work is enough to keep a client coming back Anyone managing a firm's CRM or business development process Lawyers who haven't picked up the phone to a long-standing client in longer than they'd like to admit Bill and Tobi end with a challenge: pick one client you haven't spoken to in a while, prepare two thoughtful questions, and schedule a 20-minute call with no agenda. No pitch, no project, just attention. It might be the cheapest, easiest piece of business development you do all year.

You've done the work. The matter is closed. Now what? Many attorneys move straight on to the next brief. In doing so, they walk away from some of the most valuable business development opportunities they'll ever have. In this third and final episode on Bill's seven-step BD framework, Bill and Tobi complete the circle: from client debriefing and experience enhancement all the way back to step one. You'll walk away with: Why a thorough post-matter debrief is one of the highest-leverage BD moves an attorney can make. Concrete ways to add value beyond legal advice: forms, introductions, industry foresight, and training that cement long-term client relationships. Why the seven-step model is a circle, not a line.  How to handle the gatekeeper problem: the person inside a client organization blocking your access to the real decision-maker. Why attorneys who undervalue themselves are doing their clients no favors. And why being well-compensated signals confidence, not greed A straight-talking take on when to cut your losses on a prospect that simply won't open the door. This episode is especially relevant for: attorneys leading client relationships at any stage of their career; BD and marketing professionals in law firms; partners thinking about compensation structure and its effect on client retention. The framework won't win every pitch. But it will give you a mindset and a set of tools that shift the odds — and calm the frantic feeling that BD is somehow out of your control.

Your client is convinced they know exactly what they need. But what if they're wrong? In this episode, Bill Burns and Tobi Steinemann tackle the second part of Bill's framework of the seven essential steps in attorney business development. It takes them to what may be the most important and most overlooked question: not just what clients want, but whether that assessment holds up under scrutiny. The answer separates advisors from order-takers. You'll walk away with: Why understanding client needs is really two questions and why the second one is the harder one A real-world example of a prospect chasing a solution that didn't exist and what happened when an attorney pushed back Why attorneys need to follow business news closely (especially litigators, who often don't) The "Zurich to Paris" principle: why meeting clients where they are determines whether your marketing actually lands Why lunch and learns consistently outperform speeches to large audiences for building real client relationships The value box: how to think about price vs. value and why being the cheapest is never the right differentiator This episode is especially relevant for attorneys who feel they spend more time pitching than listening, and for anyone who has ever lost a piece of work and wasn't sure why. If you want clients who trust your judgment, not just your fee quote, this one's for you.

Most attorneys rush to the pitch. They spot a company, picture themselves doing the work, schedule a lunch, and walk in ready to sell. Then they wonder why nothing comes of it. In this episode, Bill and Tobi kick off a three-part series on Bill's framework for business development: the seven essential questions every attorney should be able to answer before chasing a client and when maintaining an ongoing a client relationship. Part 1 zooms in on Question One: "Who is your client?". Sounds obvious, until you actually try to answer it. You'll hear: The full list of the seven essential BD questions Why business development is a circular process, not a linear one and what attorneys miss when they treat it as a checklist "Window gazing" business development A cautionary dentist story that nails what not to do in the first 60 seconds of a client relationship How to map a prospect at three levels: the rational, the organizational, and the personal etc. This episode is especially relevant for: Attorneys who feel paralyzed by too many BD ideas and no system to sort them Senior associates and new partners building their book of business Marketing and BD professionals coaching lawyers through specific pursuits If you've ever walked out of a "great" prospect lunch wondering why nothing came of it, this one is for you.

You've been told to build your personal brand. Your firm has its own brand. So which one actually wins clients? And what happens when the two don't line up? In this episode, Bill and Tobi unpack how firm branding actually functions in legal practice: what it does for the individual attorney day to day, why visual identity is only the surface layer, and how to think about a rebrand without panicking the partnership. You'll hear: Why firm brand and personal brand are layers of the same offering, not competing forces The two sides of a firm brand: external differentiator and internal cultural anchor The shift in big-firm branding: from hiding talent to putting people on stage How brand strategy scales from sole practitioner to multi-office firm, and why each requires a different playbook Three triggers that signal it's time for a rebrand: identity, market, leadership Why the internal rollout (and not the public launch) is what makes a rebrand stick This episode is especially relevant for: Attorneys who want to make better use of their firm's brand assets in their own client work Managing partners and firm leaders weighing a rebrand or new website Marketing and BD professionals working across multiple offices or markets Branding isn't decoration. It's the stage your business development happens on — and built right, it does some of the selling for you.

Most attorneys know they should be on LinkedIn. Far fewer know how to actually use it for business development. In this episode, Bill and Tobi break down LinkedIn not as a broadcasting tool, but as what it really is: a real-time networking environment where the same principles that work in a room full of prospects apply just as well on screen. They cover what the platform actually rewards today, what it used to reward (and why that changed), and what attorneys can do right now to stay visible and relevant to the clients and contacts that matter. You'll walk away with: Why the "networking room" mental model changes how you post, comment, and engage on LinkedIn How the algorithm has shifted from connection-based to interest-based and what that means for your content What makes a post worth reading (and why saves and shares now matter more than likes) A practical playbook: posting frequency, topic focus, comment strategy, and profile hygiene Why firms need a social media policy and the real consequences when attorneys get it wrong Why LinkedIn alone is not enough, and which one channel gives you back control of your audience This episode is especially relevant for: Attorneys who post occasionally but aren't sure if it's working BD managers and marketing leads setting or revisiting firm social media policy Anyone building a practice who wants to understand how LinkedIn actually works in 2026 and beyond LinkedIn is real life. The attorneys who understand that will use it very differently.

You know you should be doing more business development. The problem is finding the time between client work, billable hour targets, and, well, the rest of your life. In this episode, Bill and Tobi tackle the number one excuse attorneys give for not doing business development and break down exactly how to work around it. Note, not all activities take the same amount of time, and knowing the difference is the key. We also discuss the content marketing angle that will make you rethink how much you're already sitting on: how to source content effortlessly from your client conversations, how to turn one blog post into a month of LinkedIn material, and how a Swiss law firm started generating qualified leads from content they'd already written – with almost no extra effort. Whether you have five minutes or a full afternoon, this episode gives you a concrete playbook for making business development actually happen, consistently, intentionally, and without overhauling your life. You'll walk away with: A simple 3-tier time framework (minutes / hours / days) to match BD activities to your schedule The "content parking space" trick for never running out of things to write about How to repurpose a single blog post into multiple LinkedIn posts What "upcycling" content means and how one firm turned anonymous website traffic into real leads Why strategic clarity (not more time) is often the real bottleneck

What do people actually think of you as a lawyer? And are you shaping that perception on purpose? In this episode, Bill and Tobi break down what personal branding really means for attorneys and why it’s far more than just LinkedIn posts. It’s about the sum of every interaction, every email, every appearance, and every piece of content that shapes how clients and peers perceive you. You’ll hear: A clear, practical definition of personal branding (and why every lawyer already has one) The difference between strategy (how you want to be perceived) and execution (how you show up daily) Why authenticity (not performance) is the foundation of a strong legal brand The “branding frog” concept and how consistency turns isolated efforts into real impact How tools like LinkedIn, speaking, publishing, PR, and SEO actually work together The relationship between personal brand and firm brand and why you can’t hide behind your firm Why generative AI may undermine authenticity in legal marketing (and how to use it carefully) Beyond the theory, the episode dives into what really makes or breaks a lawyer’s brand in practice: responsiveness, active listening, attention to detail, and the ability to “read the room”. Because even the best marketing efforts fall apart if the real-world interaction doesn’t match the promise. This episode is for: Attorneys who want to build visibility and credibility in a way that actually feels natural Legal marketers helping lawyers develop authentic, sustainable personal brands Firms trying to balance individual visibility with a cohesive firm brand If you’ve ever wondered whether personal branding is worth the effort or how to do it without becoming “salesy” or inauthentic: This conversation will give you both clarity and direction. Because whether you like it or not, your brand is already out there. The only question is: are you building it intentionally?

Referrals are all around you. The question is: are you actually seeing them? In this episode of the 20 Minute Attorney Business Development Podcast, Tobias Steinemann and Bill Burns unpack what really drives referral marketing for lawyers and why “just do good work” is only the beginning. From plumbers to global legal networks, this episode explores how referrals happen in real life, why so many are lost, and what attorneys and legal marketers can do to increase the odds that a recommendation turns into a real conversation. You’ll hear: What factors referrers consider when chosing the person they recommend AND: how you can influence them Why conferences and international associations only work if you play the long game The hidden risk of “pay-to-play” referral events Why up to 80% of referrals may never result in contact and how branding and digital footprint make or beak that moment How relevance, differentiation, and visible expertise determine whether someone actually reaches out The episode also tackles a common misconception in law firm marketing: the idea that firms “don’t need branding because we get our work from referrals.” Referrals and branding are not opposites, they are inseparable. For attorneys who want to build sustainable books of business and for legal marketers designing referral and visibility strategies, this conversation offers both practical guidance and a broader mindset shift. Because referrals don’t just happen. They compound when expertise, visibility, and relationships align.

Business doesn’t fall out of the sky. And yet many young attorneys start their careers as if it might. In this episode of the 20 Minute Attorney Business Development Podcast, Bill Burns and Tobi Steinemann take a candid look at what really happens when legal talent meets the reality of revenue. Drawing on Tobi’s early experience in a small Basel law firm and Bill’s decades of coaching associates inside a mid-sized U.S. firm, they unpack why business development feels so intimidating at first, and why ignoring it is the fastest way to lose control of your career. You’ll hear: Why “independence” and “control” are what every lawyer needs to aim for How firms can (and should) structure business development from year one to partnership What internal relationship-building actually means and why it’s not optional The simple but powerful habit of inventorying your contacts and tracking outreach and more... This episode is especially relevant for: Young associates trying to balance billable hours, politics, and a personal life Partners who want to grow the pie instead of hoard it Legal marketers and BD professionals building structured development programs If you care about long-term career autonomy, intentional relationship-building, and creating a culture where associates don’t feel like pinballs in a machine, this conversation will give you both practical ideas and a shift in perspective  Because at some point, every lawyer faces the same truth: someone has to go find the next case.

Great conversations don’t automatically turn into business. So what actually closes the deal? In this episode of the 20 Minute Attorney Business Development Podcast, Tobias Steinemann and Bill Burns tackle the final – and often most uncomfortable – stage of business development: asking for the work. They dig into what strong closers actually have in common (hint: it’s not extroversion), why curiosity and confidence matter more than charm, and how rushing to a quote can quietly sabotage a deal. The conversation moves through pricing, budgets, proposals, and RFPs, unpacking why competing on price alone is a losing strategy and how undervaluing your work damages relationships before they even begin. Tune in for hard-earned insights on when to say no, how to spot the wrong kind of client early, and three practical ways to ask for the business – without sounding salesy or desperate. From alternative fee arrangements to small, low-risk starter projects, this episode offers a grounded, realistic look at how lawyers can close work while protecting their time, their value, and their sanity. If you’ve ever wondered whether you should push harder, wait longer, or walk away entirely, this episode gives you a clearer framework for deciding what comes next.

How do you figure out what clients really want? Especially when they’re not saying it out loud... In this episode Tobias Steinemann and Bill Burns unpack one of the hardest questions in professional services: understanding client needs. They explore why genuine curiosity beats transactional thinking, how preparation and research can transform first conversations with prospects, and why trust is the real currency of business development. From using LinkedIn as a research and relationship tool, to client listening meetings, lunch-and-learns, and the quiet power of active listening, this conversation is packed with practical insights lawyers can actually use. The episode also looks ahead, asking how changing technology and AI are reshaping client expectations – and why lawyers who position themselves as strategic advisors will thrive, while purely reactive service providers risk being replaced. If you want deeper client relationships, better conversations, and more meaningful work, this episode is a sharp reminder that business development starts long before the ask.