Advertise on podcast: Melody or Witchcraft: Poets on Emily Dickinson & Today's Issues

The Melody or Witchcraft podcast interviews begin with a love for poetry, its craft, and a major literary ancestor: Emily Dickinson. I’m your host, Kathryn Petruccelli, a poet, workshop leader, Substacker, & former guide for the Emily Dickinson Museum in Amherst, Massachusetts. Listen in to hear about the concentric circles of past and present. Names or poetic references are fleshed out or linked to in the show notes if not in the moment. Thanks for being a listener! Rate us on Spotify HERE, or Apple Podcasts HERE.kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com for full show notes, links & photos. Angela Narciso Torres was one of those super prepared guests! She’d kindly listened to several episodes before I got to sit down with her and I got to benefit from both her deep thinking and her gorgeous typewriter collection! In Episode 24, Angela & I get into moving beyond grief, defining home, & she breaks down for us the idea of “bricolage” – making things from the scraps of what we have handy. (Recorded May 26, 2026) Angela Narciso Torres is the author of What Happens Is Neither, Blood Orange, and the chapbook, To the Bone. A graduate of the Harvard Graduate School of Education and Warren Wilson’s MFA program, she has been awarded a Pushcart Prize, a BreadLoaf Fellowship, and the Yeats Poetry Prize. Born in Brooklyn and raised in Manila, she lives in San Diego and serves as reviews editor for RHINO. The Dickinson poem Angela chose: To make a prairie it takes a clover and one bee,One clover, and a bee.And revery.The revery alone will do,If bees are few. transcribed by Mabel Loomis Todd, (Fr 1779, J1755) Late BirdAngela Narciso Torres Count me among the noon risers who stumble,dazed and bad-haired, from the nest midday,pecking the crazed dirt for half-torn moth, pear’s white core, severed worm. I’ve never been one to trill at chink of dawn, to hop, skip, chirrup before full sun. I’m better at picking over crumbs, stitching a quiltfrom what’s left, remaindered, given upfor gone. Better at betting the careless will miss the best. Count me amongthe nightbirds who sip starlight, a guitar’sfading strains. Find me where moondust swirls in streetlamp glow and stray dogs sleep.What clings to the bone is most sweet. Other Dickinson poems mentioned: After great pain, a formal feeling comes—, the Diane Seuss episode of Melody or Witchcraft that covers that poem. Fact check, people, & concepts mentioned: Claude Lévi-Strauss – Bricolage From April 25, 1862 to Thomas Wentworth Higginson. Letter 261.“[Father] buys me many books but begs me not to read them for he fears they joggle the mind.” Czesław Miłosz Seamus Heaney Terrance Hayes’ American Sonnets for my Past and Future Assassin Diane Seuss’ Frank: Sonnets, Anne of Green Gables Read a scan of a first edition (1911) copy of The Secret Garden from the New York Public Library! Addie Mills series RHINO journal Poem-a-day of Angela’s poem “Late Bird” with an “about” paragraph where Angela explains more of where it came from and the connected Shakespearean sonnet 73. The tanka form Thank you for being a Melody or Witchcraft listener! Tune in Monday, November 9th for our final episode of Season 4 (Dorianne Laux). We’d love it if you were moved to sign up as a paid subscriber. There will be bonus material for paid Subscribers in 2027 and other benes you can take advantage of even sooner, like the workshop below - free for supporters! It’s just about time to renew the fees for the recording and editing platforms…your generosity is most welcome! These are hard times and sometimes perspective can make all the difference. The Cosmos" aims to introduce you to poets you love writing on the stars, the planets, the moon (is that still allowed??) and in the process writing about human lives, failures, desire, and loss. Check out the website or email montereyboundATgmailDOTcom. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe

The Melody or Witchcraft podcast interviews begin with a love for poetry, its craft, and a major literary ancestor: Emily Dickinson. I’m your host, Kathryn Petruccelli, a poet, workshop leader, Substacker, & former guide for the Emily Dickinson Museum in Amherst, Massachusetts. Listen in to hear about the concentric circles of the past and the present. Names or poetic references are fleshed out or linked to in the show notes if not in the moment. Thanks for being a listener! Rate us on Spotify HERE, or Apple Podcasts HERE.kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com for full show notes, links, & photos. I have the fabulous Dana Levin, Season 2 guest, to thank for putting Jane Huffman on my radar. I immediately watched Jane’s reading for the Phosphorescence series with the Emily Dickinson Museum and was struck by the starkness and intention of her work as well as what felt like a clearly Dickinsonian tenor. Our conversation proved super interesting and fun and I’m glad I could get an hour with this very busy PhD candidate! In Episode 23, Jane & I ruminate on the uses of fear and anxiety, her relationship with the narrative, a positive caveat in AI’s influence, & more. (Recorded June 5, 2026) Jane Huffman (she/her) is the author of Public Abstract (American Poetry Review, 2023), winner of the 2023 APR/Honickman First Book Prize. She is a PhD candidate in English and literary arts at the University of Denver, where she is managing editor of Denver Quarterly, and she has an MFA from the University of Iowa. Her poems have appeared in The Nation, The Atlantic, Poetry Magazine, The New Yorker, New England Review, and elsewhere. She was a 2019 recipient of the Ruth Lilly and Dorothy Sargent Rosenberg Fellowship from the Poetry Foundation. The Dickinson poem Jane chose: I lived on Dread —To Those who knowThe stimulus there isIn Danger — Other impetusIs numb — and vitalless — As ‘twere a Spur — upon the Soul —A Fear will urge it whereTo go without the spectre’s aidWere challenging Despair. Fascile 23, Sheet 6, (Fr498, J770) c. late 1862 RuminationJane Huffman If I stopped for a moment even, even for a moment, I would not start again — like breathing — no, I fear, I should say, fear — I fear I would not start again — and it is fearthat keeps me up, suspended like an apple in my mind when someone tells me to picture it: an apple on your fingertip. Rumination, as a cow does, ultimately sustained by it. (As a cow does, ultimately made of grass, sustained by it, and thus an allegory for, a standing in, the thing she eats. The grass grows up and on in her. She stands in it. The part is a container for the whole. Strokes of grass become the cud, the soul.) The James Allen Hall episode of Melody of Witchcraft in which we cover “One need not be a chanber – to be Haunted –” “Called Back” was indeed the entire contents of the final letter Dickinson wrote which was addressed to her cousins – Letter 1046, January 1886. It reads, Little Cousins, / Called Back / Emily. Called Back was also the title of a novella by Hugh Conway (a pseudonym for English author Frederick John Fargus) which Dickinson had written about in another letter to her cousin the year prior. Link to the Radiolab episode on aphantasia – when someone cannot create a picture of something in their mind. Petrarchan sonnet While I hope to keep the main episodes free to listeners, I’m cooking up some new projects behind the scenes for paid subscribers to add to the other benefits already in place. Details coming in the weeks ahead. In addition, there are costs involved in making the podcast, like equipment, consultation, and the possibility of purchasing the books of my guests, nevermind the huge investment of time. Offering the basic support per month costs only slightly more than one latte or cappuccino. Please consider contributing if you enjoy what you’ve heard. Thanks, Kitty. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe

The Melody or Witchcraft podcast interviews begin with a love for poetry, its craft, and a major literary ancestor: Emily Dickinson. I’m your host, Kathryn Petruccelli, a poet, workshop leader, Substacker, & former guide for the Emily Dickinson Museum in Amherst, Massachusetts. Listen in to hear about the concentric circles of the past and the present. Names or poetic references are fleshed out or linked to in the show notes if not in the moment. Thanks for being a listener! Rate us on Spotify HERE, or Apple Podcasts HERE. kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com for complete notes, photos, and links. I’m lucky to call James Crews a friend. When I was still living in the States, we weren’t more than a couple hours’ drive from each other. He is as kind as he appears in virtual spaces—and he’s fun! I’ve written about James and his work in a previous Substack post called “Tough Love’s Time is Done.” You can find it here. Below is a photo of us a couple years ago at a meet up at MASS MoCA museum in North Adams, Massachusetts. In Episode 22, James & I talk about life’s package deal of pain & beauty, his unique poetry writing process, what poets can do to lift each other up, & more! (Recorded August 20, 2026) James Crews is the author and editor of fourteen books, including Breathing Room, Turning Toward Grief, How to Love the World, and Love Is for All of Us, winner of a Nautilus Gold Medal Award. He has been featured on NPR’s Morning Edition, in People Magazine, The Boston Globe, and The New York Times Magazine. James lives with his husband on forty rocky acres in Southern Vermont that they are restoring to a habitat for pollinators and native species. The Dickinson poem James chose: There’s a certain Slant of light,Winter Afternoons -That oppresses, like the HeftOf Cathedral Tunes - Heavenly Hurt, it gives us -We can find no scar,But internal difference -Where the Meanings, are - None may teach it - Any -‘Tis the seal Despair -An imperial afflictionSent us of the Air - When it comes, the Landscape listens -Shadows - hold their breath -When it goes, ‘tis like the DistanceOn the look of Death - Fascicle 13, Sheet 3, (Fr320, J258) c. early 1862 Twilight GloryJames Crews When wonder feels impossible,I know I’m meant to turn towardthe nearest inch of life—the smallbody of a rabbit, for instance,resting in the grass at twilight,ears perked for the quick footfallof any danger. How often have I livedlike that, emergency lurking aroundeach new corner, fear stalking meeven on an evening walk in summer?Tonight, I stop in the middleof the road when I notice the waninglight pouring through the delicatered skin of the rabbit’s ear, the waysun illuminates a piece of stained-glassfrom behind as well as from within. Other Dickinson poems mentioned: Because I could not stop for Death – (look for this poem to be covered in Season 5!) The difference between Fear and Despair – Safe Despair that Raves Agony is Frugal A Wounded deer leaps highest (Please note these versions of the poems, though the ones available online, do not necessarily use Dickinson’s original punctuation.) People mentioned in the interview: Kemi Alabi’s Melody or Witchcraft episode Transcendentalists Calvinists Mary Oliver Ross Gay Campbell McGrath David Clewell Albert Goldbarth Stephen Dunn Jane Hirshfield Naomi Shihab Nye The full fragment quote we referenced is “Flowers are so enticing, I fear that they are sins like gambling or apostasy.” This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe

The Melody or Witchcraft podcast interviews begin with a love for poetry, its craft, and a major literary ancestor: Emily Dickinson. I’m your host, Kathryn Petruccelli, a poet, workshop leader, Substacker, & former guide for the Emily Dickinson Museum in Amherst, Massachusetts. Listen in to hear about the concentric circles of the past and the present. Names or poetic references are fleshed out or linked to in the show notes if not in the moment. Thanks for being a listener! Rate us on Spotify HERE, or Apple Podcasts HERE. kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com for complete notes, photos, and links. I don’t remember how I started following Sunu Chandy on social media, but I immediately understood that her obvious commitment to the issues she believed in were things I also felt strongly about. The day I arranged to talk to Sunu, happened to be the 25th anniversary of the 911 tragedy. What I didn’t know when we first scheduled things, was her personal connection to the events of that day. Please note that there is also a “Bonus Bit” associated with Sunu’s interview. You’ll find that brief audio separately. In Episode 21, Sunu & I discuss communal grief, the risk it takes to take care of each other, her civil rights law work, & the complicated nature of standing in one’s truth. (Recorded September 11, 2026) Sunu P. Chandy (she/her) is a social justice activist including through her work as a poet and a civil rights attorney. She is the daughter of immigrants from Kerala, India, and lives in Washington, DC with her family. Her collection of poems, My Dear Comrades, was published by Regal House. She is also a Senior Advisor with Democracy Forward, and on the board of the Transgender Law Center. Sunu is a proud alum of Earlham College in Richmond, Indiana, Northeastern Law School in Boston, Massachusetts, and she completed her MFA in Creative Writing from Queens College/CUNY. Sunu has been recognized as one of the Queer Women of Washington. The Dickinson poem Sunu chose: I measure every Grief I meetWith narrow, probing, eyes –I wonder if It weighs like Mine –Or has an Easier size. I wonder if They bore it long –Or did it just begin –I could not tell the Date of Mine –It feels so old a pain – I wonder if it hurts to live –And if They have to try –And whether – could They choose between –It would not be – to die – I note that Some – gone patient long –At length, renew their smile –An imitation of a LightThat has so little Oil – I wonder if when Years have piled –Some Thousands – on the Harm –That hurt them early – such a lapseCould give them any Balm – Or would they go on aching stillThrough Centuries of Nerve –Enlightened to a larger Pain –In Contrast with the Love – The Grieved – are many – I am told –There is the various Cause –Death – is but one – and comes but once –And only nails the eyes – There’s Grief of Want – and grief of Cold –A sort they call “Despair” –There’s Banishment from native Eyes –In sight of Native Air – And though I may not guess the kind –Correctly – yet to meA piercing Comfort it affordsIn passing Calvary – To note the fashions – of the Cross –And how they’re mostly worn –Still fascinated to presumeThat Some – are like my own – Fascicle 27, Sheet 2, (Fr550, J561) c. Summer 1863 I Like Your PlantSunu Chandy For the second timefrom my bedroom windowI see the storybook witch ladyat her patio balcony. The first, the dayafter Great-Granny died. The second,almost five months later, the weekendof what would have beenGreat-Granny’s 98th birthdayand the day we held her memorialservice in our living room. The neighbor has wildwhite hair going in all directions,and a salmon-colored baggy T-shirtwith some design I cannot decipherfrom my stationaryPeloton bicycle. As Alex fake yells at meduring fake hit and hills spin class, I see heronly during my standingclimbs. At first, she’s stretchingboth hands to the sky. But thenshe starts gripping. Five floorsabove the ground,she’s gripping the railing. I know there are so many reasons to gripa railing. I know there are timesI’ve gripped a railing. She keeps stretchingand then gripping. When I go up the fakemountain and Alex fake yellsat me on the fake bike, I’m worryingnow about the very not fakeneighbor. She’s closingher eyes. It’s like she’s grippingand praying. I am getting more worriedeach time I come down from each fakehillside. I open the window,hoping the noise of that smallmovement across the spacewill be enough. When it’s not, from my fake bike,I say Good Morning in a mediumloud voice, hoping it’s enough. It breaksher trance and she looksaround, but does not see me. I’m insidea window, across a concretecourtyard and two floorsup. As she’s lookingaround, my class ends. I’m not surewhat comes next. I notice two plantson her patio. One is a small fiddleleaf fig, like mine used to be. I finda pathway. I said Hi there,I like your plant. I thinkI have one like that too. She looksup. She says Hi. Yes, it’s growingnicely. It has doubled in sizesince it arrived here. I am late now for gettingready for churchas my few minutes of shower-timewas spent with our neighbor. I had noidea what to say, or if to say anything at allto this strangeracross the way, this person,our neighbor. I didn’t want to saysomething as loadedas: Are you okay?I didn’t want to sayI’m thinking againof my friend’s extendedfamily member who took his lifelast week. That’s why I couldn’tstay with herin Philly. I didn’t want to sayour friend’s spouse, our age,just started hospice this weekafter two yearswith cancer. I didn’t want to saywe lost our Great Grannyearlier this year. And George Uncle too.Or that we are celebrating Great-Granny’slife this afternoon. I didn’t wantto mention Jen’s essays on nervousness,healing, and sometimes, how closethe line can be. But I managed to say: I likeyour plant. I have one, like that too. Other Dickinson Poems Mentioned: Tell all the truth but tell it slant – (covered in Audrey Molloy’s episode of Melody or Witchcraft) I like a look of Agony Writers & works mentioned: Mark Nepo’s “If You Want a True Friend” James Crews (James’ Melody or Witchcraft episode releases October 19, 2026) Tayari Jone’s novel Kin Marie Howe’s “What the Living Do” Jane Kenyon’s “Otherwise” Audre Lorde June Jordan’s “Poetry for the People” Marge Piercy’s “To Be of Use,” from Circles on the Water Naomi Shihab Nye’s “Gate A4” This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe

Please note that this is a “bonus bit” - a short supplemental that accompanies a full-length interview with Sunu Chandy for the Melody or Witchcraft podcast. People, places, poems & books mentioned: Danusha Laméris’s “Small Kindnesses” Leila Chatti Fine Arts Work Center in Provincetown Unicorn Authors’ Club Let Me Say This is the Dolly Party poetry anthology edited by Julie E. Bloemeke & Dustin Brookshire Nicky Beer’s “Drag Day at Dollywood” comes from her book Real Phonies & Genuine Fakes. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe

Welcome to the first episode of Season 4! The Melody or Witchcraft podcast interviews begin with a love for poetry, its craft, and a major literary ancestor: Emily Dickinson. I’m your host, Kathryn Petruccelli, a poet, workshop leader, Substacker, & former guide for the Emily Dickinson Museum in Amherst, Massachusetts. Listen in to hear about the concentric circles of the past and the present. Names or poetic references are fleshed out or linked to in the show notes if not in the moment. Thanks for being a listener! Rate us on Spotify HERE, or Apple Podcasts HERE. I met Audrey Molloy for the first time in May of 2026 when I was privileged to take a workshop with her at the Cork International Poetry Festival. I was impressed with how she conducted the workshop itself, the breadth of feedback she provided all of us, as well as how generous she was with her time and skills. In Episode 20, Audrey & I talk about the nuance of “Truth,” the cadence of Irish poets, what has & hasn’t changed for “fallen” women in the 21st century & more. (Recorded September 1, 2026) Audrey Molloy was born in Dublin and has lived in Sydney since 1998. She has an MA in Creative Writing (Poetry) from Manchester Metropolitan University. Her debut collection, The Important Things (2021), was shortlisted for the Seamus Heaney First Collection Poetry Prize and won the Anne Elder Award. Her third collection, Fallen (2025), was long-listed for the Forward Prize. She has been shortlisted for major awards including the Montreal, Peter Porter, Bridport and Moth poetry prizes. She is co-founder and editor of The Marrow International Poetry. The Dickinson poem Audrey chose: Tell all the truth but tell it slant -Success in Circuit liesToo bright for our infirm DelightThe Truth’s superb surprise As Lightning to the Children easedWith explanation kindThe Truth must dazzle graduallyOr every man be blind – Loose Poems, (Fr1263, J1129) c. 1872 FallenAudrey Molloy Wives are afraid of me now.They smile at me the way people smile at leopards through glass, or across a moat:how safe we are, over here, in our marriages. A woman can wake to her own wailing.How silly, they will say, this is the sound of guilt; think of the children, they’ll say, not hearing the planeat work on her heart, shaving it down to a leaf. Oh, I read the Russian novels(and you’re not sure now if I mean read or read – if this is happening or had already happened.With loss, both can be true at once.) If the books don’t lie I die at the end of the story,like Anna, or Emma – the fellow-fallen, how almost accidental it sounds! Fallen –as though I’d lost my footing, stumbled on the lip of the moat, or slipped like a child’s dollover the glass fence of the enclosure. What I know of leaving: men stride forthwith purpose, some fine new place in mind. A wife neither falls nor leaps – she ditchesinto the dark hands of the sea, not caring where she comes to ground,driven only by what she leaves behind. Other Dickinson poems mentioned: Wild Nights! – Wild Nights! I felt a Funeral, in my Brain, People and concepts mentioned in the interview: What Audrey notes as “ModPo” at “Pennsylvania University” is University of Pennsylvania’s course in Modern American Poetry. (Pro Tip: LOOK at this! The course is FREE!) Shelley Keats Wordsworth Hopkins Austin Clarke (and his poem, “The Planter’s Daughter”) Hiberno-English (Note that the phrase Audrey uses in our conversation - “I’m after going to the shops,” translates as “I just went to the shops.”) Yeats Kavanaugh (and his poem, “Advent”) Robert Frost Sharon Olds (and her book, Stag’s Leap) Muriel Rukeyser (and her poem “Waiting for Icarus”) The journal Audrey co-founded, The Marrow La Bohème La Traviata Madame Butterfly Carmen Dickens Victor Hugo Tamburlaine the Great Genghis Khan This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe

Hello dear Melody or Witchcraft listeners! I’m interviewing and editing all over the place right now, getting ready for Season 4 of Melody or Witchcraft to start in October. In the meantime, I thought you might enjoy a little extra poetry. Today’s post is an exchange with my friend John Gillespie’s podcast, Poetry Medicine for the Soul. He speaks with interdisciplinary artist and writer Summer J. Hart, a native of the state of Maine and an enrolled member of the Listuguj Mi’gmaq First Nation. She’ll read some of her work and some work by others who have inspired her. (That sound at all familiar? ;)) Quick warning that there is a curse word in this epsiode. Announcements of the new season of Melody or Witchcraft guests coming soon! Be well, ox, Kitty This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe

This Bonus Bit supplements the full-length interview with poet Brenda Hillman for the Melody or Witchcraft podcast. Brenda kindly and honestly responds to my question around being part of a two-poet household. Folks mentioned:Robert Haas Forrest Gander CD Wright This completes Season 3 of Melody or Witchcraft. We’ll be back at the start of October with Season 4!! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe

The Melody or Witchcraft podcast interviews begin with a love for poetry, its craft, and a major literary ancestor: Emily Dickinson. I’m your host, Kathryn Petruccelli, a poet, workshop leader, Substacker, & former guide for the Emily Dickinson Museum in Amherst, Massachusetts. I’m interested in things like the sources of creative inspiration, how the past influences the present, challenging cultural norms, social justice, and poetry as a tool for survival. I have yet to fail to fall further in love with each poet-guest after our conversations. I hope that will be true for you, too. Non-poets & poetry skeptics: you are very welcome here!! Names or poetic references are fleshed out or linked to in the show notes if not in the moment. * Things you are at risk of as a listener:Learning new ways to understand poetry.Filling up your “new writers/books to read” dance card.Finding healing and companionship around the stress of living. Thanks for being a listener! Rate us on Spotify HERE, or Apple Podcasts HERE. In Episode 19, Brenda & I unload ideas about our sister Emily’s influence, agree accessibility is the devil’s work, talk the long poem, the (short) chapbook, and much more! In addition to the following full-length interview, look for the Brenda Hillman “bonus bit” episode where Brenda talks about her partnership with poet Robert Haas. (NB: Brenda Hillman is our anchor episode for Season 3. We’ll be back in October with Season 4 and more amazing poet guests.) Brenda Hillman was born in Tucson, Arizona and has been an active part of the Bay Area literary community since 1975. She has published chapbooks with Penumbra Press, a+bend press, EmPress, A Minus Press, and Albion Books. And has published twelve full-length collections with Wesleyan University Press, including her upcoming title, Still House in the Desert: An eco-contemplation (September 2026), and her recent collections, In A Few Minutes Before Later (2022); Seasonal Works with Letters on Fire (2013), which received the International Griffin Poetry Prize; and Extra Hidden Life, among the Days (2018), winner of the Northern California Book Award. Brenda’s choice of Dickinson poem: My Life had stood - a Loaded Gun -In Corners - till a DayThe Owner passed - identified -And carried Me away - And now We roam in Sovreign Woods -And now We hunt the Doe -And every time I speak for HimThe Mountains straight reply - And do I smile, such cordial lightOpon the Valley glow -It is as a Vesuvian faceHad let it’s pleasure through - And when at Night - Our good Day done -I guard My Master’s Head -’Tis better than the Eider Duck’sDeep Pillow - to have shared - To foe of His - I’m deadly foe -None stir the second time -On whom I lay a Yellow Eye -Or an emphatic Thumb - Though I than He - may longer liveHe longer must - than I -For I have but the power to kill,Without - the power to die – Fascicle 34, Sheet 4, c. late 1863 (Fr764; J754) The Family Sells the Family GunBrenda Hillman a prose ballad i only held it once but thought about it often as you think about those times when your life had stood both loaded & unloaded One brother knew of its existence having seen it where it languished in the famed green storage unit from which it had been transferred to the bank-box but we never quite knew when Information our father had & something he was squeamish about or proud of at the same time the way Protestants are about g******s We believed it was a Luger—maybe taken from a soldier—in the War our father trained for but didn’t ever get to because he was wounded in the knee—“sustained” is the word they use—sustained a wound—in infantry maneuvers before his men were mostly killed after D-Day— When his ashes in the desert grave were lying we took the weapon from the bank-box i put it quickly in my handbag to get it past the teller—the holster was the smoothest leather—brown & heavy —the yawning L-shape of the Luger Google says Georg Luger designed in 1898 —the holster smooth as the jackets of German soldiers in the movies & what had they done to make the cowhide smooth like that & what had they done to the cow We thought of burying it in the desert but if you Google burying a firearm it changes to a search for buying a firearm You can also look up how to load a semi-automatic weapon on YouTube where a white man with thick hands & a wedding band shows you how to check for rounds in what order & tells you how to handle it with your dominant hand We couldn’t take it to the cops even in my handbag though Arizona is open carry & you can take it anywhere in public but the cops can shoot you if you take your gun to their station One young Tucson cop named Matt agreed to come to us & checked the magazine & said it was unloaded— looked upon us with excruciatingly mild pity — said this relic might be worth some money & stroked it the way some boys do i couldn’t tell what the brothers were thinking— it felt like a tragedy but reversible—our father’s ghost stood like a tall working summer like Hamlet’s father’s ghost appearing only in the day & good naturedly telling people not do the killing but still trying to control the actions of the play You can think about ghostly word weapons nonstop Let’s just take a shot at it She was going great guns He loved her but couldn’t quite pull the trigger Better to just bite the bullet Kill an hour or two & for some reason maybe sorrow for our father’s power/lack of power i felt a twinge when my brother whisked the tiny heavy out of there —my life had stood a secret little hiddenly shameful semi-automatic firearm & When at night Our good day done i guard my Master’s head My younger brother sold it for $600 at a Tucson gun shop—one of those outfits where the master paces behind the counter offering advice on collecting & is so proud of his stash It was a Tuesday i think—a Tuesday inside history where America is lost—& what should we do with the cash Other Dickinson poems mentioned: A little Madness in the Spring People, books, and concepts mentioned in the conversation: Bob (Robert) Hass (Edgar Allan) Poe Lord Byron The Pocket Emily Dickinson, ed. Brenda Hillman, 1995 (Walt) Whitman Wallace Stevens’ “Le Monocle de Mon Oncle” Tang Dynasty Barbara Mossberg episode of Melody or Witchcraft John Keats’ “Ode to a Nightingale” Denise Levertov Elizabeth Bishop Gertrude Stein H.D. Dale Going Dickinson’s Master Letters Iambic Anapestic “Paul Revere’s Ride” by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow Robinson Jeffers & his poem “The Purse-Seine” Susannah Taminin AWP = Association of Writers & Writing Programs, a large annual writing conference that happens in different cities around the U.S. year to year. Ekphrasic (Thomas Wentworth) Higginson Dante (William) Wordsworth’s poems “Prelude” & “A Slumber did my Spirit Seal” Brian Teare & Albion Books (also mentioned in Dana Levin’s Melody or Witchcraft episode) C.D. Wright The Firecage, Brenda’s chapbook about menopause and hotflashes Recorded April 15, 2026 Make sure to check out the Brenda Hillman Bonus Bit episode as well. Otherwise, this completes Season 3 of Melody or Witchcraft. Best wishes for a poetic September and we’ll be back with a new season in October. Thank you for your support. ox NEW WORKSHOP OPPORTUNITIES: Join me for a revision techniques/revising in community stand-alone workshop Sunday, August 30! (Free for paid Substack subscribers.) Join up with one of the 8-week generative workshops beginning in September through SOBI (Small Observances, Big Ideas). Poetroar.com for more details. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe

This Bonus Bit supplements the full-length interview with poet Kemi Alabi for the Melody or Witchcraft podcast. Please listen to this small clip, where Kemi speaks about their intentions for the reader, repetition as a route toward revelation and an embodied understand if the poem. Along the way, they mention: Toni Morrison Fela Kuti Surely, you have something to say after listening?!? Can you think of a friend who needs to hear what’s here? Perhaps you’ve even been moved to support my work here in other ways? This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe

The Melody or Witchcraft podcast interviews begin with a love for poetry, its craft, and a major literary ancestor: Emily Dickinson. I’m your host, Kathryn Petruccelli, a poet, workshop leader, Substacker, & former guide for the Emily Dickinson Museum in Amherst, Massachusetts. I’m interested in things like the sources of creative inspiration, how the past influences the present, challenging cultural norms, and poetry as a tool for survival. I have yet to fail to fall further in love with each poet-guest after our conversations. I hope that will be true for you, too. Non-poets & poetry skeptics: you are very welcome here!! Names or poetic references are fleshed out or linked to in the show notes if not in the moment. * Things you are at risk of as a listener:Learning new ways to understand poetry.Filling up your “new writers/books to read” dance card.Finding healing and companionship around the stress of living. Thanks for being a listener! Rate us on Spotify HERE, or Apple Podcasts HERE. In Episode 18, Kemi & I are all about sonics! Religious rebels have a moment with those from the beyond, and Kemi talks about the importance of the private side of the writing practice, as well as their role as a culture worker and disbelief in nothing. Kemi Alabi is the author of Against Heaven (Graywolf Press, 2022), selected by Claudia Rankine as winner of the Academy of American Poets First Book Award, and co-editor of The Echoing Ida Collection (Feminist Press, 2021). Kemi’s work appears in The Nation, The Atlantic, The Guardian, the Grammy-nominated album Difficult Grace and elsewhere. Born in Wisconsin on a Sunday in July, they now live in Chicago, IL. Kemi’s choice of Dickinson poem: Love—is anterior to Life— Posterior—to Death— Initial of Creation, and The Exponent of Earth— [Unbound Sheets, Sheet 26, c. 1865 (Fr980; J917)] The Lonely Sleep Through WinterKemi Alabi I say hunger and mean your hands bitten to boneseed,bandaged with bedsheet and the night while two states overa mouth—ready soil—says your name. Next June’s loverspeaks the harvest: your rich, vowel-tender song but for the neighbor. More hello than amen. Not yeta whole book of psalms. Choose this. Not your bare room.Your self-vacancies. Unlearn empire’s blackness:night spun savage, space cast empty when really a balm slicks the split between stars. Reallyhipthick spirits moonwalk across the lake ice.Maps to every heaven gauze the trees in velvetbetween that greenbright spectacle of bud and juice and dust—I’m saying there’s no such thingas nothing. Try and try, you’ll never disappear.I say hunger, mean hands you think emptythough everywhere, even the dark, heaves. Other Dickinson poems mentioned: A word is deadWhen it is said,Some say.I say it justBegins to liveThat day. I mention the poem “This World is not Conclusion,” |The second half of the poem that I referred to reads: Faith slips - and laughs, and rallies -Blushes, if any see -Plucks at a twip of Evidence -And asks a Vane, the way -Much Gesture, from the Pulpit -Strong Hallelujahs roll -Narcotics cannot still the ToothThat nibbles at the soul - Diane Seuss’ recent Melody or Witchcraft episode Terrance Hayes’ American Sonnets for My Past and Future Assassin On Dickinson’s identity as a religious “no hoper” - from emilydickinsonmuseum.org: “Like most other educational institutions at the time, Mount Holyoke also believed that students’ moral and religious lives were part of its responsibility and conducted revivals that encouraged students to profess their faith. Students were organized into one of three groups: those who professed, those who hoped to and those who were without hope. Dickinson was among eighty without hope when she entered and was among twenty-nine who remained so by the end of the year.” The Collected Poems of Lucille Clifton/The Clifton House on Lucille Clifton’s spirit writing Gabrielle Calvocoressi’s Melody or Witchcraft episode Jane Wong’s recent Melody or Witchcraft episode Hanif Abdurraqib Natalie Diaz Audre Lorde Toni Cade Bambara Ilya Kaminsky Recorded June 2, 2026 This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe

This Bonus Bit supplements the full-length interview with poet Kemi Alabi for the Melody or Witchcraft podcast. Please listen to this small clip, where Kemi speaks about their intentions for the reader, repetition as a route toward revelation and an embodied understand if the poem. Along the way, they mention: Toni Morrison Fela Kuti Surely, you have something to say after listening?!? Can you think of a friend who needs to hear what’s here? Perhaps you’ve even been moved to support my work here in other ways? This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe

This Bonus Bit supplements the full-length interview with poet Pádraig Ó Tuama for the Melody or Witchcraft podcast. Here’s what’s in each of the four snippets: 1. A final request ritual that happened at Corrymeela Peace and Reconciliation organization. 2. Examples of the importance of contexts, religious and poetic. 3. Reading Emily Dickinson during a challenging time in Pádraig’s conflict mediation work. 4. A ritual gesture among friends where one had lost a son—an expanded definition of ritual. Thanks for being a listener! Will you click LIKE so I know you were here? Pádraig mentions the Dickinson famous poem “Because I could not stop for Death.” Here it is: Because I could not stop for Death -He kindly stopped for me -The Carriage held but just Ourselves -And Immortality. We slowly drove - He knew no hasteAnd I had put awayMy labor and my leisure too,For His Civility - We passed the School, where Children stroveAt Recess - in the Ring -We passed the Fields of Gazing Grain -We passed the Setting Sun - Or rather - He passed Us -The Dews drew quivering and Chill -For only Gossamer, my Gown -My Tippet - only Tulle - We paused before a House that seemedA Swelling of the Ground -The Roof was scarcely visible -The Cornice - in the Ground - Since then - ‘tis Centuries - and yetFeels shorter than the DayI first surmised the Horses’ HeadsWere toward Eternity - This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe

The Melody or Witchcraft podcast interviews begin with a love for poetry, its craft, and a major literary ancestor: Emily Dickinson. I’m your host, Kathryn Petruccelli, a poet, workshop leader, Substacker, & former guide for the Emily Dickinson Museum in Amherst, Massachusetts. I’m interested in things like the sources of creative inspiration, how the past influences the present, challenging cultural norms, and poetry as a tool for survival. Non-poets & poetry skeptics: you are very welcome here!! Names or poetic references are fleshed out or linked to in the show notes if not in the moment. * Things you are at risk of as a listener:Learning new ways to understand poetry.Filling up your “new writers/books to read” dance card.Finding healing and companionship around the stress of living. kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com for complete notes, photos, and links. Thanks for being a listener! Rate us on Spotify HERE, or Apple Podcasts HERE. In Episode 17, Pádraig & I ruminate on authenticity in ritual, time and the presence of the past, baboons, large cats, and the importance of context. In addition to the following full-length interview, look for Pádraig’s “bonus bit” episode where he goes deeper into examples of ritual, relates his experience reading Dickinson during a particularly challenging time in his conflict mediation work, and more. Pádraig Ó Tuama (b. 1975, Ireland) is a poet with interests in language, violence, power, and religion. He is the host of On Being’s Poetry Unbound and has published volumes of poetry, essays, a memoir and theology. Kitchen Hymns (2025; Copper Canyon, CHEERIO) was shortlisted for the Lambda Literary Award. His two anthologies from the Poetry Unbound series have gathered widespread praise, with author Elif Shafak calling it “Mesmerising, magical, deeply moving…” In Autumn 2026, his collection Love Between Men will be published, and he will take up the role as Professor in the Practice of Spirituality at Yale Divinity School. Pádraig’s choice for a Dickinson poem: The Past is such a curious Creature,To look her in the FaceA Transport may receipt/reward us,Or a Disgrace – Unarmed if any meet herI charge him flyHer faded/rusty AmmunitionMight yet reply. Unbound Sheet 89 c. 1872 (Fr1273; J1203) Rite of BaptismPádraig Ó Tuama If you pass, know that you’ll have no sayabout what happens. Some of our people will hate you.You must create a lifewithout giving them all your life’s attention. Some people will delight in destroying you.Some will strike you. Some will chooseothers as their favorites. Some have been waiting for you for generations,circling, like hunters, round your little heart.Of course they don’t know you. This truth will set you free,eventually. But only after you’ve forgotten this.You haven’t learned to fly yet, have you? Someone will love you.Someone will hurt you too, but you know that already. We offer you little in the way of certainty;just that the country you live in will not always be that country. There is a lot you’ll need to suffer.Remember: help is a howl and an imperative. Nothing to be ashamed of. One way or another, shamecan teach you what nothing else can teach you. One way or another.Your body is an event,and you’ll spend decades unpacking what’s happened. Here is what we cannot guarantee you:guarantees, or history’s purity. Here is what we can: a stage, some paper,curiosity, danger. There is no such thing as the past.Just stories of the past told today. And anyway, nobody knows where the past begins—in the beginning it was all a dream, not a story. Remember: you must believesome of this. Please consider becoming a paid subscriber for as little as 5 dollars/7 euros a month. I would especially appreciate your support right now to offset recent spending on consultations I commissioned to help me enhance the podcast. Cristanne Miller’s Emily Dickinson’s Poems As She Preserved Them Edmund Spenser’s 1596 pamphlet, “View on the Present State of Irelande,” in which he offers brutal recommendations to subdue the Irish colony. His poem, “The Faerie Queene” Other Dickinson poems mentioned in the conversation: At least to pray is left, is left.O Jesus! in the airI know not which thy chamber is, --I ‘m knocking everywhere. Thou stirrest earthquake in the South,And maelstrom in the sea;Say, Jesus Christ of Nazareth,Hast thou no arm for me? Fact checks, people, books, & concepts mentioned: “I don’t abide doctrine” is what I quoted. The accurate quotation is actually “I do not respect doctrines.” (Letter 200, February 13, 1859) Emily Dickinson and the Religious Imagination (by Linda Freedman) “I never was with any one who drained my nerve power so much. Without touching her, she drew from me. I am glad not to live near her.” L342A (Johnson edition), August 16, 1870 T.W. Higginson to his wife, about his meeting with ED Michael Symmons Robert Information about Jay Ruka and the Maori rituals Pádraig refers to can be found here. Frank O’Hara The Walter De la Mare quote “Is there anybody there? said the traveler” – from his poem “The Listeners” and here is Pádraig’s Poetry Unbound episode on that poem. Jane Wong’s Melody or Witchcraft episode. Recorded May 20, 2026. Thanks for being a listener! If you enjoyed this, please like the post or leave us a comment! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe

This Bonus Bit supplements the full-length interview with poet Pádraig Ó Tuama for the Melody or Witchcraft podcast. Here’s what’s in each of the four snippets: 1. A final request ritual that happened at Corrymeela Peace and Reconciliation organization. 2. Examples of the importance of contexts, religious and poetic. 3. Reading Emily Dickinson during a challenging time in Pádraig’s conflict mediation work. 4. A ritual gesture among friends where one had lost a son—an expanded definition of ritual. Thanks for being a listener! Will you click LIKE so I know you were here? Pádraig mentions the Dickinson famous poem “Because I could not stop for Death.” Here it is: Because I could not stop for Death -He kindly stopped for me -The Carriage held but just Ourselves -And Immortality. We slowly drove - He knew no hasteAnd I had put awayMy labor and my leisure too,For His Civility - We passed the School, where Children stroveAt Recess - in the Ring -We passed the Fields of Gazing Grain -We passed the Setting Sun - Or rather - He passed Us -The Dews drew quivering and Chill -For only Gossamer, my Gown -My Tippet - only Tulle - We paused before a House that seemedA Swelling of the Ground -The Roof was scarcely visible -The Cornice - in the Ground - Since then - ‘tis Centuries - and yetFeels shorter than the DayI first surmised the Horses’ HeadsWere toward Eternity - This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe