Advertise on podcast: Melody or Witchcraft: Poets on Emily Dickinson & Today's Issues

The Melody or Witchcraft podcast interviews begin with a love for poetry, its craft, and a major literary ancestor: Emily Dickinson. I’m your host, Kathryn Petruccelli, a poet, workshop leader, Substacker, & former guide for the Emily Dickinson Museum in Amherst, Massachusetts. Listen in to hear about the concentric circles of the past and the present. Names or poetic references are fleshed out or linked to in the show notes if not in the moment. Thanks for being a listener! Rate us on Spotify HERE, or Apple Podcasts HERE. kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com for complete notes, photos, and links. I don’t remember how I started following Sunu Chandy on social media, but I immediately understood that her obvious commitment to the issues she believed in were things I also felt strongly about. The day I arranged to talk to Sunu, happened to be the 25th anniversary of the 911 tragedy. What I didn’t know when we first scheduled things, was her personal connection to the events of that day. Please note that there is also a “Bonus Bit” associated with Sunu’s interview. You’ll find that brief audio separately. In Episode 21, Sunu & I discuss communal grief, the risk it takes to take care of each other, her civil rights law work, & the complicated nature of standing in one’s truth. (Recorded September 11, 2026) Sunu P. Chandy (she/her) is a social justice activist including through her work as a poet and a civil rights attorney. She is the daughter of immigrants from Kerala, India, and lives in Washington, DC with her family. Her collection of poems, My Dear Comrades, was published by Regal House. She is also a Senior Advisor with Democracy Forward, and on the board of the Transgender Law Center. Sunu is a proud alum of Earlham College in Richmond, Indiana, Northeastern Law School in Boston, Massachusetts, and she completed her MFA in Creative Writing from Queens College/CUNY. Sunu has been recognized as one of the Queer Women of Washington. The Dickinson poem Sunu chose: I measure every Grief I meetWith narrow, probing, eyes –I wonder if It weighs like Mine –Or has an Easier size. I wonder if They bore it long –Or did it just begin –I could not tell the Date of Mine –It feels so old a pain – I wonder if it hurts to live –And if They have to try –And whether – could They choose between –It would not be – to die – I note that Some – gone patient long –At length, renew their smile –An imitation of a LightThat has so little Oil – I wonder if when Years have piled –Some Thousands – on the Harm –That hurt them early – such a lapseCould give them any Balm – Or would they go on aching stillThrough Centuries of Nerve –Enlightened to a larger Pain –In Contrast with the Love – The Grieved – are many – I am told –There is the various Cause –Death – is but one – and comes but once –And only nails the eyes – There’s Grief of Want – and grief of Cold –A sort they call “Despair” –There’s Banishment from native Eyes –In sight of Native Air – And though I may not guess the kind –Correctly – yet to meA piercing Comfort it affordsIn passing Calvary – To note the fashions – of the Cross –And how they’re mostly worn –Still fascinated to presumeThat Some – are like my own – Fascicle 27, Sheet 2, (Fr550, J561) c. Summer 1863 I Like Your PlantSunu Chandy For the second timefrom my bedroom windowI see the storybook witch ladyat her patio balcony. The first, the dayafter Great-Granny died. The second,almost five months later, the weekendof what would have beenGreat-Granny’s 98th birthdayand the day we held her memorialservice in our living room. The neighbor has wildwhite hair going in all directions,and a salmon-colored baggy T-shirtwith some design I cannot decipherfrom my stationaryPeloton bicycle. As Alex fake yells at meduring fake hit and hills spin class, I see heronly during my standingclimbs. At first, she’s stretchingboth hands to the sky. But thenshe starts gripping. Five floorsabove the ground,she’s gripping the railing. I know there are so many reasons to gripa railing. I know there are timesI’ve gripped a railing. She keeps stretchingand then gripping. When I go up the fakemountain and Alex fake yellsat me on the fake bike, I’m worryingnow about the very not fakeneighbor. She’s closingher eyes. It’s like she’s grippingand praying. I am getting more worriedeach time I come down from each fakehillside. I open the window,hoping the noise of that smallmovement across the spacewill be enough. When it’s not, from my fake bike,I say Good Morning in a mediumloud voice, hoping it’s enough. It breaksher trance and she looksaround, but does not see me. I’m insidea window, across a concretecourtyard and two floorsup. As she’s lookingaround, my class ends. I’m not surewhat comes next. I notice two plantson her patio. One is a small fiddleleaf fig, like mine used to be. I finda pathway. I said Hi there,I like your plant. I thinkI have one like that too. She looksup. She says Hi. Yes, it’s growingnicely. It has doubled in sizesince it arrived here. I am late now for gettingready for churchas my few minutes of shower-timewas spent with our neighbor. I had noidea what to say, or if to say anything at allto this strangeracross the way, this person,our neighbor. I didn’t want to saysomething as loadedas: Are you okay?I didn’t want to sayI’m thinking againof my friend’s extendedfamily member who took his lifelast week. That’s why I couldn’tstay with herin Philly. I didn’t want to sayour friend’s spouse, our age,just started hospice this weekafter two yearswith cancer. I didn’t want to saywe lost our Great Grannyearlier this year. And George Uncle too.Or that we are celebrating Great-Granny’slife this afternoon. I didn’t wantto mention Jen’s essays on nervousness,healing, and sometimes, how closethe line can be. But I managed to say: I likeyour plant. I have one, like that too. Other Dickinson Poems Mentioned: Tell all the truth but tell it slant – (covered in Audrey Molloy’s episode of Melody or Witchcraft) I like a look of Agony Writers & works mentioned: Mark Nepo’s “If You Want a True Friend” James Crews (James’ Melody or Witchcraft episode releases October 19, 2026) Tayari Jone’s novel Kin Marie Howe’s “What the Living Do” Jane Kenyon’s “Otherwise” Audre Lorde June Jordan’s “Poetry for the People” Marge Piercy’s “To Be of Use,” from Circles on the Water Naomi Shihab Nye’s “Gate A4” This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe

Please note that this is a “bonus bit” - a short supplemental that accompanies a full-length interview with Sunu Chandy for the Melody or Witchcraft podcast. People, places, poems & books mentioned: Danusha Laméris’s “Small Kindnesses” Leila Chatti Fine Arts Work Center in Provincetown Unicorn Authors’ Club Let Me Say This is the Dolly Party poetry anthology edited by Julie E. Bloemeke & Dustin Brookshire Nicky Beer’s “Drag Day at Dollywood” comes from her book Real Phonies & Genuine Fakes. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe

Welcome to the first episode of Season 4! The Melody or Witchcraft podcast interviews begin with a love for poetry, its craft, and a major literary ancestor: Emily Dickinson. I’m your host, Kathryn Petruccelli, a poet, workshop leader, Substacker, & former guide for the Emily Dickinson Museum in Amherst, Massachusetts. Listen in to hear about the concentric circles of the past and the present. Names or poetic references are fleshed out or linked to in the show notes if not in the moment. Thanks for being a listener! Rate us on Spotify HERE, or Apple Podcasts HERE. I met Audrey Molloy for the first time in May of 2026 when I was privileged to take a workshop with her at the Cork International Poetry Festival. I was impressed with how she conducted the workshop itself, the breadth of feedback she provided all of us, as well as how generous she was with her time and skills. In Episode 20, Audrey & I talk about the nuance of “Truth,” the cadence of Irish poets, what has & hasn’t changed for “fallen” women in the 21st century & more. (Recorded September 1, 2026) Audrey Molloy was born in Dublin and has lived in Sydney since 1998. She has an MA in Creative Writing (Poetry) from Manchester Metropolitan University. Her debut collection, The Important Things (2021), was shortlisted for the Seamus Heaney First Collection Poetry Prize and won the Anne Elder Award. Her third collection, Fallen (2025), was long-listed for the Forward Prize. She has been shortlisted for major awards including the Montreal, Peter Porter, Bridport and Moth poetry prizes. She is co-founder and editor of The Marrow International Poetry. The Dickinson poem Audrey chose: Tell all the truth but tell it slant -Success in Circuit liesToo bright for our infirm DelightThe Truth’s superb surprise As Lightning to the Children easedWith explanation kindThe Truth must dazzle graduallyOr every man be blind – Loose Poems, (Fr1263, J1129) c. 1872 FallenAudrey Molloy Wives are afraid of me now.They smile at me the way people smile at leopards through glass, or across a moat:how safe we are, over here, in our marriages. A woman can wake to her own wailing.How silly, they will say, this is the sound of guilt; think of the children, they’ll say, not hearing the planeat work on her heart, shaving it down to a leaf. Oh, I read the Russian novels(and you’re not sure now if I mean read or read – if this is happening or had already happened.With loss, both can be true at once.) If the books don’t lie I die at the end of the story,like Anna, or Emma – the fellow-fallen, how almost accidental it sounds! Fallen –as though I’d lost my footing, stumbled on the lip of the moat, or slipped like a child’s dollover the glass fence of the enclosure. What I know of leaving: men stride forthwith purpose, some fine new place in mind. A wife neither falls nor leaps – she ditchesinto the dark hands of the sea, not caring where she comes to ground,driven only by what she leaves behind. Other Dickinson poems mentioned: Wild Nights! – Wild Nights! I felt a Funeral, in my Brain, People and concepts mentioned in the interview: What Audrey notes as “ModPo” at “Pennsylvania University” is University of Pennsylvania’s course in Modern American Poetry. (Pro Tip: LOOK at this! The course is FREE!) Shelley Keats Wordsworth Hopkins Austin Clarke (and his poem, “The Planter’s Daughter”) Hiberno-English (Note that the phrase Audrey uses in our conversation - “I’m after going to the shops,” translates as “I just went to the shops.”) Yeats Kavanaugh (and his poem, “Advent”) Robert Frost Sharon Olds (and her book, Stag’s Leap) Muriel Rukeyser (and her poem “Waiting for Icarus”) The journal Audrey co-founded, The Marrow La Bohème La Traviata Madame Butterfly Carmen Dickens Victor Hugo Tamburlaine the Great Genghis Khan This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe

Hello dear Melody or Witchcraft listeners! I’m interviewing and editing all over the place right now, getting ready for Season 4 of Melody or Witchcraft to start in October. In the meantime, I thought you might enjoy a little extra poetry. Today’s post is an exchange with my friend John Gillespie’s podcast, Poetry Medicine for the Soul. He speaks with interdisciplinary artist and writer Summer J. Hart, a native of the state of Maine and an enrolled member of the Listuguj Mi’gmaq First Nation. She’ll read some of her work and some work by others who have inspired her. (That sound at all familiar? ;)) Quick warning that there is a curse word in this epsiode. Announcements of the new season of Melody or Witchcraft guests coming soon! Be well, ox, Kitty This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe

The Melody or Witchcraft podcast interviews begin with a love for poetry, its craft, and a major literary ancestor: Emily Dickinson. I’m your host, Kathryn Petruccelli, a poet, workshop leader, Substacker, & former guide for the Emily Dickinson Museum in Amherst, Massachusetts. I’m interested in things like the sources of creative inspiration, how the past influences the present, challenging cultural norms, social justice, and poetry as a tool for survival. I have yet to fail to fall further in love with each poet-guest after our conversations. I hope that will be true for you, too. Non-poets & poetry skeptics: you are very welcome here!! Names or poetic references are fleshed out or linked to in the show notes if not in the moment. * Things you are at risk of as a listener:Learning new ways to understand poetry.Filling up your “new writers/books to read” dance card.Finding healing and companionship around the stress of living. Thanks for being a listener! Rate us on Spotify HERE, or Apple Podcasts HERE. In Episode 19, Brenda & I unload ideas about our sister Emily’s influence, agree accessibility is the devil’s work, talk the long poem, the (short) chapbook, and much more! In addition to the following full-length interview, look for the Brenda Hillman “bonus bit” episode where Brenda talks about her partnership with poet Robert Haas. (NB: Brenda Hillman is our anchor episode for Season 3. We’ll be back in October with Season 4 and more amazing poet guests.) Brenda Hillman was born in Tucson, Arizona and has been an active part of the Bay Area literary community since 1975. She has published chapbooks with Penumbra Press, a+bend press, EmPress, A Minus Press, and Albion Books. And has published twelve full-length collections with Wesleyan University Press, including her upcoming title, Still House in the Desert: An eco-contemplation (September 2026), and her recent collections, In A Few Minutes Before Later (2022); Seasonal Works with Letters on Fire (2013), which received the International Griffin Poetry Prize; and Extra Hidden Life, among the Days (2018), winner of the Northern California Book Award. Brenda’s choice of Dickinson poem: My Life had stood - a Loaded Gun -In Corners - till a DayThe Owner passed - identified -And carried Me away - And now We roam in Sovreign Woods -And now We hunt the Doe -And every time I speak for HimThe Mountains straight reply - And do I smile, such cordial lightOpon the Valley glow -It is as a Vesuvian faceHad let it’s pleasure through - And when at Night - Our good Day done -I guard My Master’s Head -’Tis better than the Eider Duck’sDeep Pillow - to have shared - To foe of His - I’m deadly foe -None stir the second time -On whom I lay a Yellow Eye -Or an emphatic Thumb - Though I than He - may longer liveHe longer must - than I -For I have but the power to kill,Without - the power to die – Fascicle 34, Sheet 4, c. late 1863 (Fr764; J754) The Family Sells the Family GunBrenda Hillman a prose ballad i only held it once but thought about it often as you think about those times when your life had stood both loaded & unloaded One brother knew of its existence having seen it where it languished in the famed green storage unit from which it had been transferred to the bank-box but we never quite knew when Information our father had & something he was squeamish about or proud of at the same time the way Protestants are about g******s We believed it was a Luger—maybe taken from a soldier—in the War our father trained for but didn’t ever get to because he was wounded in the knee—“sustained” is the word they use—sustained a wound—in infantry maneuvers before his men were mostly killed after D-Day— When his ashes in the desert grave were lying we took the weapon from the bank-box i put it quickly in my handbag to get it past the teller—the holster was the smoothest leather—brown & heavy —the yawning L-shape of the Luger Google says Georg Luger designed in 1898 —the holster smooth as the jackets of German soldiers in the movies & what had they done to make the cowhide smooth like that & what had they done to the cow We thought of burying it in the desert but if you Google burying a firearm it changes to a search for buying a firearm You can also look up how to load a semi-automatic weapon on YouTube where a white man with thick hands & a wedding band shows you how to check for rounds in what order & tells you how to handle it with your dominant hand We couldn’t take it to the cops even in my handbag though Arizona is open carry & you can take it anywhere in public but the cops can shoot you if you take your gun to their station One young Tucson cop named Matt agreed to come to us & checked the magazine & said it was unloaded— looked upon us with excruciatingly mild pity — said this relic might be worth some money & stroked it the way some boys do i couldn’t tell what the brothers were thinking— it felt like a tragedy but reversible—our father’s ghost stood like a tall working summer like Hamlet’s father’s ghost appearing only in the day & good naturedly telling people not do the killing but still trying to control the actions of the play You can think about ghostly word weapons nonstop Let’s just take a shot at it She was going great guns He loved her but couldn’t quite pull the trigger Better to just bite the bullet Kill an hour or two & for some reason maybe sorrow for our father’s power/lack of power i felt a twinge when my brother whisked the tiny heavy out of there —my life had stood a secret little hiddenly shameful semi-automatic firearm & When at night Our good day done i guard my Master’s head My younger brother sold it for $600 at a Tucson gun shop—one of those outfits where the master paces behind the counter offering advice on collecting & is so proud of his stash It was a Tuesday i think—a Tuesday inside history where America is lost—& what should we do with the cash Other Dickinson poems mentioned: A little Madness in the Spring People, books, and concepts mentioned in the conversation: Bob (Robert) Hass (Edgar Allan) Poe Lord Byron The Pocket Emily Dickinson, ed. Brenda Hillman, 1995 (Walt) Whitman Wallace Stevens’ “Le Monocle de Mon Oncle” Tang Dynasty Barbara Mossberg episode of Melody or Witchcraft John Keats’ “Ode to a Nightingale” Denise Levertov Elizabeth Bishop Gertrude Stein H.D. Dale Going Dickinson’s Master Letters Iambic Anapestic “Paul Revere’s Ride” by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow Robinson Jeffers & his poem “The Purse-Seine” Susannah Taminin AWP = Association of Writers & Writing Programs, a large annual writing conference that happens in different cities around the U.S. year to year. Ekphrasic (Thomas Wentworth) Higginson Dante (William) Wordsworth’s poems “Prelude” & “A Slumber did my Spirit Seal” Brian Teare & Albion Books (also mentioned in Dana Levin’s Melody or Witchcraft episode) C.D. Wright The Firecage, Brenda’s chapbook about menopause and hotflashes Recorded April 15, 2026 Make sure to check out the Brenda Hillman Bonus Bit episode as well. Otherwise, this completes Season 3 of Melody or Witchcraft. Best wishes for a poetic September and we’ll be back with a new season in October. Thank you for your support. ox NEW WORKSHOP OPPORTUNITIES: Join me for a revision techniques/revising in community stand-alone workshop Sunday, August 30! (Free for paid Substack subscribers.) Join up with one of the 8-week generative workshops beginning in September through SOBI (Small Observances, Big Ideas). Poetroar.com for more details. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe

This Bonus Bit supplements the full-length interview with poet Brenda Hillman for the Melody or Witchcraft podcast. Brenda kindly and honestly responds to my question around being part of a two-poet household. Folks mentioned:Robert Haas Forrest Gander CD Wright This completes Season 3 of Melody or Witchcraft. We’ll be back at the start of October with Season 4!! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe

This Bonus Bit supplements the full-length interview with poet Kemi Alabi for the Melody or Witchcraft podcast. Please listen to this small clip, where Kemi speaks about their intentions for the reader, repetition as a route toward revelation and an embodied understand if the poem. Along the way, they mention: Toni Morrison Fela Kuti Surely, you have something to say after listening?!? Can you think of a friend who needs to hear what’s here? Perhaps you’ve even been moved to support my work here in other ways? This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe

The Melody or Witchcraft podcast interviews begin with a love for poetry, its craft, and a major literary ancestor: Emily Dickinson. I’m your host, Kathryn Petruccelli, a poet, workshop leader, Substacker, & former guide for the Emily Dickinson Museum in Amherst, Massachusetts. I’m interested in things like the sources of creative inspiration, how the past influences the present, challenging cultural norms, and poetry as a tool for survival. I have yet to fail to fall further in love with each poet-guest after our conversations. I hope that will be true for you, too. Non-poets & poetry skeptics: you are very welcome here!! Names or poetic references are fleshed out or linked to in the show notes if not in the moment. * Things you are at risk of as a listener:Learning new ways to understand poetry.Filling up your “new writers/books to read” dance card.Finding healing and companionship around the stress of living. Thanks for being a listener! Rate us on Spotify HERE, or Apple Podcasts HERE. In Episode 18, Kemi & I are all about sonics! Religious rebels have a moment with those from the beyond, and Kemi talks about the importance of the private side of the writing practice, as well as their role as a culture worker and disbelief in nothing. Kemi Alabi is the author of Against Heaven (Graywolf Press, 2022), selected by Claudia Rankine as winner of the Academy of American Poets First Book Award, and co-editor of The Echoing Ida Collection (Feminist Press, 2021). Kemi’s work appears in The Nation, The Atlantic, The Guardian, the Grammy-nominated album Difficult Grace and elsewhere. Born in Wisconsin on a Sunday in July, they now live in Chicago, IL. Kemi’s choice of Dickinson poem: Love—is anterior to Life— Posterior—to Death— Initial of Creation, and The Exponent of Earth— [Unbound Sheets, Sheet 26, c. 1865 (Fr980; J917)] The Lonely Sleep Through WinterKemi Alabi I say hunger and mean your hands bitten to boneseed,bandaged with bedsheet and the night while two states overa mouth—ready soil—says your name. Next June’s loverspeaks the harvest: your rich, vowel-tender song but for the neighbor. More hello than amen. Not yeta whole book of psalms. Choose this. Not your bare room.Your self-vacancies. Unlearn empire’s blackness:night spun savage, space cast empty when really a balm slicks the split between stars. Reallyhipthick spirits moonwalk across the lake ice.Maps to every heaven gauze the trees in velvetbetween that greenbright spectacle of bud and juice and dust—I’m saying there’s no such thingas nothing. Try and try, you’ll never disappear.I say hunger, mean hands you think emptythough everywhere, even the dark, heaves. Other Dickinson poems mentioned: A word is deadWhen it is said,Some say.I say it justBegins to liveThat day. I mention the poem “This World is not Conclusion,” |The second half of the poem that I referred to reads: Faith slips - and laughs, and rallies -Blushes, if any see -Plucks at a twip of Evidence -And asks a Vane, the way -Much Gesture, from the Pulpit -Strong Hallelujahs roll -Narcotics cannot still the ToothThat nibbles at the soul - Diane Seuss’ recent Melody or Witchcraft episode Terrance Hayes’ American Sonnets for My Past and Future Assassin On Dickinson’s identity as a religious “no hoper” - from emilydickinsonmuseum.org: “Like most other educational institutions at the time, Mount Holyoke also believed that students’ moral and religious lives were part of its responsibility and conducted revivals that encouraged students to profess their faith. Students were organized into one of three groups: those who professed, those who hoped to and those who were without hope. Dickinson was among eighty without hope when she entered and was among twenty-nine who remained so by the end of the year.” The Collected Poems of Lucille Clifton/The Clifton House on Lucille Clifton’s spirit writing Gabrielle Calvocoressi’s Melody or Witchcraft episode Jane Wong’s recent Melody or Witchcraft episode Hanif Abdurraqib Natalie Diaz Audre Lorde Toni Cade Bambara Ilya Kaminsky Recorded June 2, 2026 This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe

This Bonus Bit supplements the full-length interview with poet Kemi Alabi for the Melody or Witchcraft podcast. Please listen to this small clip, where Kemi speaks about their intentions for the reader, repetition as a route toward revelation and an embodied understand if the poem. Along the way, they mention: Toni Morrison Fela Kuti Surely, you have something to say after listening?!? Can you think of a friend who needs to hear what’s here? Perhaps you’ve even been moved to support my work here in other ways? This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe

This Bonus Bit supplements the full-length interview with poet Pádraig Ó Tuama for the Melody or Witchcraft podcast. Here’s what’s in each of the four snippets: 1. A final request ritual that happened at Corrymeela Peace and Reconciliation organization. 2. Examples of the importance of contexts, religious and poetic. 3. Reading Emily Dickinson during a challenging time in Pádraig’s conflict mediation work. 4. A ritual gesture among friends where one had lost a son—an expanded definition of ritual. Thanks for being a listener! Will you click LIKE so I know you were here? Pádraig mentions the Dickinson famous poem “Because I could not stop for Death.” Here it is: Because I could not stop for Death -He kindly stopped for me -The Carriage held but just Ourselves -And Immortality. We slowly drove - He knew no hasteAnd I had put awayMy labor and my leisure too,For His Civility - We passed the School, where Children stroveAt Recess - in the Ring -We passed the Fields of Gazing Grain -We passed the Setting Sun - Or rather - He passed Us -The Dews drew quivering and Chill -For only Gossamer, my Gown -My Tippet - only Tulle - We paused before a House that seemedA Swelling of the Ground -The Roof was scarcely visible -The Cornice - in the Ground - Since then - ‘tis Centuries - and yetFeels shorter than the DayI first surmised the Horses’ HeadsWere toward Eternity - This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe

The Melody or Witchcraft podcast interviews begin with a love for poetry, its craft, and a major literary ancestor: Emily Dickinson. I’m your host, Kathryn Petruccelli, a poet, workshop leader, Substacker, & former guide for the Emily Dickinson Museum in Amherst, Massachusetts. I’m interested in things like the sources of creative inspiration, how the past influences the present, challenging cultural norms, and poetry as a tool for survival. Non-poets & poetry skeptics: you are very welcome here!! Names or poetic references are fleshed out or linked to in the show notes if not in the moment. * Things you are at risk of as a listener:Learning new ways to understand poetry.Filling up your “new writers/books to read” dance card.Finding healing and companionship around the stress of living. kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com for complete notes, photos, and links. Thanks for being a listener! Rate us on Spotify HERE, or Apple Podcasts HERE. In Episode 17, Pádraig & I ruminate on authenticity in ritual, time and the presence of the past, baboons, large cats, and the importance of context. In addition to the following full-length interview, look for Pádraig’s “bonus bit” episode where he goes deeper into examples of ritual, relates his experience reading Dickinson during a particularly challenging time in his conflict mediation work, and more. Pádraig Ó Tuama (b. 1975, Ireland) is a poet with interests in language, violence, power, and religion. He is the host of On Being’s Poetry Unbound and has published volumes of poetry, essays, a memoir and theology. Kitchen Hymns (2025; Copper Canyon, CHEERIO) was shortlisted for the Lambda Literary Award. His two anthologies from the Poetry Unbound series have gathered widespread praise, with author Elif Shafak calling it “Mesmerising, magical, deeply moving…” In Autumn 2026, his collection Love Between Men will be published, and he will take up the role as Professor in the Practice of Spirituality at Yale Divinity School. Pádraig’s choice for a Dickinson poem: The Past is such a curious Creature,To look her in the FaceA Transport may receipt/reward us,Or a Disgrace – Unarmed if any meet herI charge him flyHer faded/rusty AmmunitionMight yet reply. Unbound Sheet 89 c. 1872 (Fr1273; J1203) Rite of BaptismPádraig Ó Tuama If you pass, know that you’ll have no sayabout what happens. Some of our people will hate you.You must create a lifewithout giving them all your life’s attention. Some people will delight in destroying you.Some will strike you. Some will chooseothers as their favorites. Some have been waiting for you for generations,circling, like hunters, round your little heart.Of course they don’t know you. This truth will set you free,eventually. But only after you’ve forgotten this.You haven’t learned to fly yet, have you? Someone will love you.Someone will hurt you too, but you know that already. We offer you little in the way of certainty;just that the country you live in will not always be that country. There is a lot you’ll need to suffer.Remember: help is a howl and an imperative. Nothing to be ashamed of. One way or another, shamecan teach you what nothing else can teach you. One way or another.Your body is an event,and you’ll spend decades unpacking what’s happened. Here is what we cannot guarantee you:guarantees, or history’s purity. Here is what we can: a stage, some paper,curiosity, danger. There is no such thing as the past.Just stories of the past told today. And anyway, nobody knows where the past begins—in the beginning it was all a dream, not a story. Remember: you must believesome of this. Please consider becoming a paid subscriber for as little as 5 dollars/7 euros a month. I would especially appreciate your support right now to offset recent spending on consultations I commissioned to help me enhance the podcast. Cristanne Miller’s Emily Dickinson’s Poems As She Preserved Them Edmund Spenser’s 1596 pamphlet, “View on the Present State of Irelande,” in which he offers brutal recommendations to subdue the Irish colony. His poem, “The Faerie Queene” Other Dickinson poems mentioned in the conversation: At least to pray is left, is left.O Jesus! in the airI know not which thy chamber is, --I ‘m knocking everywhere. Thou stirrest earthquake in the South,And maelstrom in the sea;Say, Jesus Christ of Nazareth,Hast thou no arm for me? Fact checks, people, books, & concepts mentioned: “I don’t abide doctrine” is what I quoted. The accurate quotation is actually “I do not respect doctrines.” (Letter 200, February 13, 1859) Emily Dickinson and the Religious Imagination (by Linda Freedman) “I never was with any one who drained my nerve power so much. Without touching her, she drew from me. I am glad not to live near her.” L342A (Johnson edition), August 16, 1870 T.W. Higginson to his wife, about his meeting with ED Michael Symmons Robert Information about Jay Ruka and the Maori rituals Pádraig refers to can be found here. Frank O’Hara The Walter De la Mare quote “Is there anybody there? said the traveler” – from his poem “The Listeners” and here is Pádraig’s Poetry Unbound episode on that poem. Jane Wong’s Melody or Witchcraft episode. Recorded May 20, 2026. Thanks for being a listener! If you enjoyed this, please like the post or leave us a comment! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe

This Bonus Bit supplements the full-length interview with poet Pádraig Ó Tuama for the Melody or Witchcraft podcast. Here’s what’s in each of the four snippets: 1. A final request ritual that happened at Corrymeela Peace and Reconciliation organization. 2. Examples of the importance of contexts, religious and poetic. 3. Reading Emily Dickinson during a challenging time in Pádraig’s conflict mediation work. 4. A ritual gesture among friends where one had lost a son—an expanded definition of ritual. Thanks for being a listener! Will you click LIKE so I know you were here? Pádraig mentions the Dickinson famous poem “Because I could not stop for Death.” Here it is: Because I could not stop for Death -He kindly stopped for me -The Carriage held but just Ourselves -And Immortality. We slowly drove - He knew no hasteAnd I had put awayMy labor and my leisure too,For His Civility - We passed the School, where Children stroveAt Recess - in the Ring -We passed the Fields of Gazing Grain -We passed the Setting Sun - Or rather - He passed Us -The Dews drew quivering and Chill -For only Gossamer, my Gown -My Tippet - only Tulle - We paused before a House that seemedA Swelling of the Ground -The Roof was scarcely visible -The Cornice - in the Ground - Since then - ‘tis Centuries - and yetFeels shorter than the DayI first surmised the Horses’ HeadsWere toward Eternity - This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe

Welcome to Melody or Witchcraft where contemporary poets engage with Dickinson and today’s world. I’m your host, Kathryn Petruccelli, a poet, workshop leader, Substacker, & former guide for the Emily Dickinson Museum in Amherst, Massachusetts. I’m interested in sources of creative inspiration, how the past influences the present, challenging cultural norms, social justice, and poetry as a tool for survival. I have yet to fail to fall further in love with each poet-guest after our conversations. I hope that will be true for you, too. Non-poets & poetry skeptics: you are very welcome here!! Names or poetic references are fleshed out or linked to in the show notes if not in the moment. * Things you are at risk of as a listener:Learning new ways to understand poetry.Filling up your “new writers/books to read” dance card.Finding healing and companionship around the stress of living. EXPLICIT LANGUAGE NOTE: Please be aware that there is a curse word in Episode 16 as well as reference to a slur for gay people. kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com for complete notes, photos, and links. Thanks for being a listener! Rate us on Spotify HERE, or Apple Podcasts HERE. In Episode 16, James & I romp through a conversation that touches on multiplicity, queer Dickinson, Mario Lopez, and the dangers and portals of erasure. In addition to the following full-length interview, look for the James Allen Hall “bonus bit” episode, where James talks about breaking past plateaus in writings and you get to be a fly on the wall while we chat current reads and recs. James Allen Hall is the author of two books of poetry and a book of lyric memoir, most recently Romantic Comedy from Four Way Books. With the poet Aaron Smith, they cohost Breaking Form: A Poetry & Culture Podcast. James’ choice of Dickinson poem: One need not be a chamber—to be Haunted—One need not be a House—The Brain—has Corridors surpassing Material Place—Far safer of a Midnight—meeting External Ghost—Than an Interior—confronting—That cooler—Host—Far safer, through an Abbey—gallop—The Stones a’chase—Than moonless—One’s A’self encounter—In lonesome place—Ourself—behind Ourself—Concealed—Should startle—most—Assassin—hid in Our Apartment—Be Horror’s least—The Prudent—carries a Revolver—He bolts the Door, O’erlooking a Superior SpectreMore near— Fascicle 20, Sheet 4, c. autumn 1862 (Fr407; J670) Early English HistoryJames Allen Hall Was too early: 8am Tuesday/Thursday, Elizabeth Hall.I slouched half-asleep, first-rowed, demarcatedfrom the frat boys sitting in back so they could seeup the professor’s skirt. In the mead hall after,they surrounded, let me close if I shared my notes.I was in love with the black-haired outfielder,his backwards Braves cap, until he called me fagfor refusing to rate our teacher’s underwear.I didn’t know how to fight back. I learned that semesterabout the rebel queen Boudica, whose revolt razedthree Roman forts and the emperor’s temple.Tacitus provides motive: her husband dead, kingdomannexed, Boudica flogged, her daughters raped.The armies she led tortured its captivesbut he doesn’t say why. Some pain is negligible;its survival cancels the wound of its birth.Most accounts say she poisoned herself,facing defeat. Cassius Dio gives her longer:secreted away to the south, living unrecordedfor years with her daughters. The boys in my classdrew stick figures f*****g on the wall by my roomafter I came out. I woke at night to wash outthe crooked glyphs, the caption proclaiming“AIDES kills faggs dead.” I scrubbed untilwhat remained was fist-sized, vague and pink,a map of the possible world. Our final projectwas to cook an authentic English banquet,eaten family-style at the professor’s house.At the appointed time in the year of our lord,I came with dessert but did not see the moatshe’d installed in her foyer. The strawberry puddingflew like an arrow, pink spurting everywhere,especially across the faces of those boys whose nameswere lost the moment I joined an insurrectionbegun in AD 61 by a dissident queen. In the yearssince my disappearance, I have cementedmy escarpments, foddered my canon, sewn upmy flag. I am painting my face, bluing my bodywith woad. Warn them. I am comingto punish my Romans. Camille Dungy’s Melody or Witchcraft episode Gabrielle Calvocoressi Apple TV’s three-season series “Dickinson” Alena Smith (creator of “Dickinson”) The Slave is Gone podcast with Jericho Brown and Breonne Janae Carl Phillips Joan Jett’s “One Way or Another” is somewhere in this live concert from 2016. Rabbit hole, anyone? Designing Women Mario Lopez Christina Rossetti’s “Goblin Market” Oscar Wilde Paul Monette “The Gay 90s” episode of Breaking Form Sharon Olds’ poem “Satan Says” The musical “Rent” (debuted on Broadway in 1996) Larry Levis’ Swirl & Vortex - Collected Poems Lucie Brock-Broido Brigit Pegeen Kelly Brenda Hillman (Melody or Witchcraft episode featuring Brenda coming August 24th!) Thanks for listening! Have a comment you can leave?? Recorded May 19, 2026 This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe

This Bonus Bit supplements the full-length interview with poet James Allen Hall for the Melody or Witchcraft podcast. Explicit Language Warning: There’s a curse word, y’all. Section 1: I ask about breaking past the plateau you may find yourself in with writing or publishing and James discusses the necessity of writing toward your fascinations. Louise Glück Oscar Wilde Section 2: Cork International Poetry Festival highlights Annemarie Ní Churreáin Audrey Molloy (Both Annemarie & Audrey will be future guests on the podcast!) Patricia Smith Henri Cole Leo Boix, Southernmost Sonnets Gabrielle Calvocoressi (Listen to my episode featuring Gaby here!) Lily King’s Heart the Lover Jesus’ Son by Denis Johnson Thanks for being here! Please consider becoming a paid subscriber to help support my work. Short of that, I’d simply love if you hit ‘like’ on the post! ox This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe

The Melody or Witchcraft podcast interviews begin with a love for poetry, its craft, and a major literary ancestor: Emily Dickinson. I’m your host, Kathryn Petruccelli, a poet, workshop leader, Substacker, & former guide for the Emily Dickinson Museum in Amherst, Massachusetts. I’m interested in things like the sources of creative inspiration, how the past influences the present, challenging cultural norms, social justice, and poetry as a tool for survival. I have yet to fail to fall further in love with each poet-guest after our conversations. I hope that will be true for you, too. Non-poets & poetry skeptics: you are very welcome here!! Names or poetic references are fleshed out or linked to in the show notes if not in the moment. * Things you are at risk of as a listener:Learning new ways to understand poetry.Filling up your “new writers/books to read” dance card.Finding healing and companionship around the stress of living. EXPLICIT LANGUAGE NOTE: Please be aware that there is a curse word in Episode 15. kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com for complete notes, photos, and links. Thanks for being a listener! Rate us on Spotify HERE, or Apple Podcasts HERE. In Episode 15, Diane Seuss & I go deep into the poems and come out with lessons around narrative, death, poetry’s power against same, and who cares if they’re remembered. In addition to the following full-length interview, look for the Diane Seuss “bonus bit” episode where Diane talks about her upcoming collection and you also get to listen in on some of our off-the-record chat. Diane Seuss is the author of six books of poetry, including Modern Poetry (2024), a finalist for the National Book Award and the Griffin Poetry Prize; and frank: sonnets (2021), winner of the Los Angeles Times Book Prize, the National Book Critics Circle Award, and the Pulitzer Prize. Seuss was a 2020 Guggenheim Fellow, and she is a Chancellor of the Academy of American Poets. Her seventh collection, Althea: Poems, is forthcoming from Graywolf Press in 2027. Diane’s choice of Dickinson poem: After great pain, a formal feeling comes –The Nerves sit ceremonious, like Tombs –The stiff Heart questions ‘was it He, that bore,’And ‘Yesterday, or Centuries before’? The Feet, mechanical, go round –A Wooden wayOf Ground, or Air, or Ought –Regardless grown,A Quartz contentment, like a stone – This is the Hour of Lead –Remembered, if outlived,As Freezing persons, recollect the Snow –First – Chill – then Stupor – then the letting go – c. autumn1862, Fascicle 18, Sheet 4, (FR372; J341) [I saw a little movie of a person stroking a small bird with two Q-tips, one held between]Diane Seuss I saw a little movie of a person stroking a small bird with two Q-tips, one held betweenthe forefinger and thumb of each hand. It tipped back its head to receive the minortenderness, which to the bird must have felt like being touched by a god. For moment I knew what it would be to feel at the mercy of love, small-scale, the kind shown but not spoken of. I was afraid to touch you. I was afraid of the lesions you’d described to me over the phone, their locations and the measurement, in centimeters, of each. Jesus-marks, you called them. All so I would be prepared and unafraid or less afraid but still I was afraid of dying like you were dying. When I first arrived I looked so long into your eyes you shivered and ordered me to look away. You were imperious in your dying yet courtly about my fear, you understood, as if I were a child afraid of lightning storms, which I am, having at age ten been struck. Out of the blue you said that once you were dead I’d never be able to listen to Blue again, Joni Mitchell’s Blue, not just the song but the whole album. It was a minor curse you lay across my shoulders like a fur dyed blue, and so I listen now in defiance of you. In the listening the pronoun shifts. We are listening. There is no death. People, concepts, & other references made in the conversation: (Oliver) Cromwell The line “wish in one hand, s**t in the other” appears in this poem by Diane. In Gregory Orr’s essay on poetic temperaments, he states the four temperaments as story, music, imagination, and form. Galway Kinnell Frazar Stearns (although this article is dated, it gives in-depth context for the circumstances around and impact of Stearns’ death) The reference we make to Higginson and Emily’s question about whether her poems “breathe” comes from this: Are you too deeply occupied to say if my Verse is alive? The Mind is so near itself-it cannot see, distinctly-and I have none to ask- Should you think it breathed- and had you the leisure to tell me, I should feel quick gratitude- It’s the beginning of her initial letter to Thomas Wentworth Higginson, April 15, 1862, Letter 260 Steepletop – the house of Edna St. Vincent Millay On ED’s question about where her father went after his death in 1874, I found these two things: “Home is so far from home since my father died.” (ED to Higginson, 1875) And with many thanks to my colleague at the ED Museum, Emily Bernhard, for digging this up: This is from The Years and Hours of Emily Dickinson (vol. 2, p. 227), (Jay) Leyda is quoting from Life and Letters of ED by Martha Dickinson Bianchi: “After her father’s death she went about always wondering where he could be, and even to her brother’s children saying unforgettable things in her search for a clue to what, and where, he was, and ‘what kind’ he had become ... And no acting of tragedy in later years ever effaced the memory of her husky whisper, ‘Where is he? Emily will find him!’” Walt Whitman’s “Song of Myself” Di’s short essay on bold poetic declarations: “Divine is Mine,” which comes from The Practicing Poet: Writing Beyond the Basic, ed. Diane Lockwood, 2018, Terrapin Books. Please consider becoming a paid subscriber to support my work and this content. Joni Mitchell’s Blue Emily’s “taller feet” quote is: “Could I make you and Austin — proud — sometime — a great way off — ‘twould give me taller feet —” (to Susan Dickinson, Letter238, 1861) Here is the last poem in Diane’s frank: sonnets that I read in the interview John Keats Recorded April 20, 2026. Thank you for being a listener! Leave us a comment! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe