Advertise on podcast: The Thin Veil with Ezra Lipp

In this episode of The Thin Veil, Ezra sits down with Mark LeVine, professor of Middle Eastern and African history at UC Irvine, author, journalist, and accomplished musician. A 2020–21 Guggenheim Fellow, LeVine has authored or edited more than a dozen books, including Impossible Peace, Heavy Metal Islam, and We'll Play Till We Die. He served for over a decade as a senior columnist for Al Jazeera English and is the longest-serving contributing editor at Tikkun magazine. He currently serves as co founder of the refugee-led musical community, Kakuma Sound in Kenya, and Chicoco Collective, in Port Hancourt, Nigeria. His work spans Middle Eastern history, settler colonialism, globalization, political resistance, and the transformative power of music and art. Drawing on decades of firsthand on the ground researching and reporting across Israel and Palestine, LeVine revisits the Oslo peace process and challenges the conventional narrative of a historic opportunity for peace squandered by Palestinian leadership. The conversation explores the expansion of Israeli settlements during the supposed peace process, the economic and political forces that sustained the occupation, and the growing disillusionment that shaped Palestinian resistance.  LeVine also shares personal encounters with Hamas leaders and fighters in Gaza and reflects on the consequences of different strategies of resistance. Finally, Ezra and Mark discuss Mark's latest book, Art Beyond the Edge, and the potential of art and music to inspire revolutionary change, build solidarity, and sustain hope in the face of oppression. Mark Levine on Wikipedia Mark's Al Jazeera Journalism Art Beyond The Edge: Creativity and Conflict In a World on Fire Kakuma Sound in Kenya ⭐️PLEASE LEAVE A RATING AND REVIEW OF THE SHOW ❤️ SUPPORT THE SHOWLEAVE A ONE-OFF TIP ON KO-FI BECOME A REGULAR SUPPORTER ON PATREON  🇵🇸GET INVOLVED  JEWISH VOICE FOR PEACE CONNECTING GAZA 🎙 LISTEN / WATCH / FOLLOW THE THIN VEIL THE THIN VEIL ON ALL PODCAST PLATFORMS THE THIN VEIL ON YOUTUBE THE THIN VEIL ON INSTAGRAM ✍️REACH OUT / SEND FEEDBACK [email protected] 👋 FOLLOW EZRA EZRA ON INSTAGRAM EZRA ON FACEBOOK EZRA'S WEBSITE EZRA ON YOUTUBE 🎵 THEME MUSIC BY MAGIC IN THE OTHER MAGIC IN THE OTHER WEBSITE MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON INSTAGRAM MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON YOUTUBE (00:00) - Coming Up (00:41) - Introduction: Mark LeVine (03:22) - From Musician to Middle East Scholar (06:56) - Witnessing Oslo: The View From the Ground (10:15) - How the Oslo Peace Process Began (12:46) - Expanding Settlements, Impossible Peace (17:12) - Oslo's Hidden Economic Consequences (22:54) - What Really Derailed the Peace Process? (27:27) - Camp David: The Myth of the Generous Offer (31:52) - Palestinian Disillusionment and the Rise of Hamas (37:08) - Why Maintaining the Occupation Was So Easy (41:10) - Was a Just Two-State Solution Ever Possible? (46:31) - The Myth of Progressive Israel (52:15) - Looking Back: Is a Democratic Future Still Possible? (54:30) - Conversations With Hamas: The Limits of Armed Resistance (01:00:03) - Can Art and Music Inspire Revolution? (01:06:03) - Palestinian Artists Creating Amid Devastation (01:07:02) - Closing Reflections ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

In this episode of The Thin Veil, Ezra sits down for a cathartic and deeply personal heart-to-heart with comedian, writer, doula, Female Intern podcast host, and former Zionist Danielle Deluty. Danielle grew up within an observant Modern Orthodox Jewish community, where political, familial, and religious ties to Israel were deeply intertwined. As she grew older, she began questioning the contradictions within the tradition she had inherited, particularly around gender equality. Those early cracks eventually led her to challenge both her Zionism and the religious framework that had shaped her identity, setting her on a path toward becoming an outspoken advocate for Palestinian liberation. In this revealing and vulnerable conversation, Danielle traces her journey of learning and unlearning, including formative encounters with Palestinians that challenged her worldview and gradually pulled her away from the pro-Israel advocacy she had once embraced. We explore the complicated relationship between Judaism and Zionism, the tensions Danielle feels with anti-Zionist Jews whose more liberal or secular religious upbringings differ sharply from her own, and the profound emotional cost of breaking with the community that once gave her life meaning and belonging. Ultimately, we wrestle with a question that remains unresolved: How do we hold people accountable for harmful beliefs while remaining open to their humanity, especially when those people are our own family and community? A conversation about indoctrination, identity, inherited trauma, Palestinian solidarity, and the difficult work of learning how to break with the past without losing our capacity for compassion. Danielle on Substack https://femaleintern.substack.com/ Website and Female Intern Podcast https://www.femaleintern.com/ https://www.femaleintern.com/podcast Danielle on TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@femaleintern_ ⭐️PLEASE LEAVE A RATING AND REVIEW OF THE SHOW ❤️ SUPPORT THE SHOWLEAVE A ONE-OFF TIP ON KO-FI BECOME A REGULAR SUPPORTER ON PATREON  🇵🇸GET INVOLVED  JEWISH VOICE FOR PEACE CONNECTING GAZA 🎙 LISTEN / WATCH / FOLLOW THE THIN VEIL THE THIN VEIL ON ALL PODCAST PLATFORMS THE THIN VEIL ON YOUTUBE THE THIN VEIL ON INSTAGRAM ✍️REACH OUT / SEND FEEDBACK [email protected] 👋 FOLLOW EZRA EZRA ON INSTAGRAM EZRA ON FACEBOOK EZRA'S WEBSITE EZRA ON YOUTUBE 🎵 THEME MUSIC BY MAGIC IN THE OTHER MAGIC IN THE OTHER WEBSITE MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON INSTAGRAM MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON YOUTUBE (00:00) - The Worst Thing That Happens When You Educate Women (00:44) - Introducing Danielle Deluty (03:08) - Why Danielle Envies Anti-Zionist Jews (04:18) - Growing Up Modern Orthodox and Zionist (08:37) - Questioning Women's Roles in Orthodox Judaism (13:24) - AIPAC, Republican Politics, and the Need to Belong (15:10) - Holocaust Trauma and Israel as a Promise of Safety (18:49) - Where Were Palestinians in the Story? (22:14) - The David Project and Pro-Israel Education (24:22) - Witnessing the Reality of an Israeli Checkpoint (28:12) - A Palestinian Professor Changes Her Perspective (31:40) - Law School, Political Radicalization, and Care Work (34:49) - October 7 and a Painful Family Divide (36:53) - Jewish Memory and the Politics of Victimhood (42:08) - Has Zionism Hijacked Judaism? (44:21) - Jewish Accountability and Complicity (46:06) - Palestinian Liberation vs. Redeeming Jewish Identity (51:30) - The Personal Cost of Leaving Zionism (53:58) - Biblical Narratives and Connection to the Land (56:40) - Is There a Path Toward Repair? (58:58) - Remaining Soft in a World of Violence (01:01:50) - Compassion, Boundaries, and Urgency (01:03:06) - Following Palestinian Leadership (01:04:14) - Closing Remarks ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Rami Younis is a Palestinian journalist, filmmaker, and cultural activist from Lyd, a Palestinian city inside present-day Israel. He co-founded the Hebrew-language news outlet Local Call, the sister publication of +972 Magazine, served as a parliamentary consultant and spokesperson for Palestinian Knesset member Haneen Zoabi, and co-founded the Palestine Music Expo. He also hosted On the Other Hand, a pioneering Arabic-language daily news and political commentary show on Israeli public television, and co-directed the acclaimed sci-fi documentary Lyd, which explores the tragedy that befell his hometown in 1948 while imagining how history might have unfolded differently. In this conversation, Rami reflects on the contradictions of being Palestinian in “the Jewish State,” the challenges of resisting from within Israeli society, what the possibilities and limitations are for Israeli-Palestinian activism, and his warning that Zionism threatens not only Palestinians, but the future of Israelis themselves—and much more. Rami's Journalism in +972 Magazine Lyd - A Sci-Fi Documentary by Rami Younis & Sarah Ema Friedland ⭐️PLEASE LEAVE A RATING AND REVIEW OF THE SHOW ❤️ SUPPORT THE SHOWLEAVE A ONE-OFF TIP ON KO-FI BECOME A REGULAR SUPPORTER ON PATREON  🇵🇸GET INVOLVED  JEWISH VOICE FOR PEACE CONNECTING GAZA 🎙 LISTEN / WATCH / FOLLOW THE THIN VEIL THE THIN VEIL ON ALL PODCAST PLATFORMS THE THIN VEIL ON YOUTUBE THE THIN VEIL ON INSTAGRAM ✍️REACH OUT / SEND FEEDBACK [email protected] 👋 FOLLOW EZRA EZRA ON INSTAGRAM EZRA ON FACEBOOK EZRA'S WEBSITE EZRA ON YOUTUBE 🎵 THEME MUSIC BY MAGIC IN THE OTHER MAGIC IN THE OTHER WEBSITE MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON INSTAGRAM MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON YOUTUBE (00:00) - Cold Open: Rami's Warning to Israeli Society (00:55) - Introduction: Meet Rami Younis (03:04) - Living Alongside Israeli Soldiers After Gaza (05:54) - The Contradictions of Palestinian Citizenship (07:51) - Detachment, Numbness, and Gaza (09:20) - Growing Up Palestinian in a Jewish Neighborhood (11:31) - Israel's European Identity and Colonial Mentality (13:03) - Are Palestinian Citizens Equal in Israel? (15:42) - Why Israeli Society Needs to Save Itself (17:36) - Is Netanyahu the Problem—or Israeli Society? (19:30) - Romanticizing the Past and Imagining a Shared Future (23:33) - Why Palestinian Cultural Resistance Matters (25:31) - Lyd: Imagining an Alternative History (26:17) - Normalization vs. Jewish-Palestinian Partnership (28:31) - Rami on Standing Together (29:29) - Israeli Journalists, Privilege, and No Other Land (33:35) - Why Israeli Society Rejects Its Critics (34:57) - A Warning to American Jews and Liberal Zionists (37:14) - Journalism as Palestinian Empowerment (39:25) - The Compromises of Working on Israeli Television (43:49) - Palestinian Privilege and Political Fragmentation (45:32) - Rami's Vision for a Free Palestine (47:39) - Closing Thoughts ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Ashira Darwish is a Palestinian investigative journalist, trauma healer, and former human rights activist whose work explores the relationship between occupation, resistance, trauma, and collective healing. After years working in journalism and advocacy, and following a spinal injury in 2012 that temporarily left her paralyzed, she developed Ashira Active Meditation, a trauma-integration practice rooted in somatic healing, ancestral wisdom, and liberation psychology. I first encountered Ashira as a producer and one of the central voices in the extraordinary documentary Where Olive Trees Weep, alongside Dr. Gabor Maté. The film explores the deep psychological and spiritual wounds carried by Palestinians living under occupation. In this powerful conversation, Ashira reflects on being detained and tortured by Israeli forces, interviewing Palestinian resistance fighters during the Second Intifada, the dignity she associates with Palestinian resistance, and the psychological impact of imprisonment and occupation. We also discuss Gaza, Palestinian prisoners, Western power and colonialism, and what healing can mean when the conditions producing trauma are still ongoing. Through Catharsis Holistic Healing, Ashira now works with Palestinians and other communities affected by genocide, displacement, and intergenerational trauma. Ashira Darwish & Catharsis Holistic Healing Follow Ashira On Instagram Where Olive Trees Weep Film SUMUD Project for Neuro-Medical CareProviding free neurological treatment and rehabilitation to the people of Gaza through dedicated volunteer doctors and specialists. Project Hope - Supporting Families in Gaza ⭐️PLEASE LEAVE A RATING AND REVIEW OF THE SHOW ❤️ SUPPORT THE SHOWLEAVE A ONE-OFF TIP ON KO-FI BECOME A REGULAR SUPPORTER ON PATREONNew Subscriber Feature - Leave a voicemail for Ezra and he will get back to you  🇵🇸GET INVOLVED  JEWISH VOICE FOR PEACE CONNECTING GAZA 🎙 LISTEN / WATCH / FOLLOW THE THIN VEIL THE THIN VEIL ON ALL PODCAST PLATFORMS THE THIN VEIL ON YOUTUBE THE THIN VEIL ON INSTAGRAM ✍️REACH OUT / SEND FEEDBACK [email protected] 👋 FOLLOW EZRA EZRA ON INSTAGRAM EZRA ON FACEBOOK EZRA'S WEBSITE EZRA ON YOUTUBE 🎵 THEME MUSIC BY MAGIC IN THE OTHER MAGIC IN THE OTHER WEBSITE MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON INSTAGRAM MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON YOUTUBE (00:00) - Coming Up: “You’ll Find the Empaths” (00:30) - Introducing Ashira Darwish (04:21) - What Feels Most Alive Right Now? (09:41) - Hope, Collapse & “The Veil” Coming Off (12:56) - What Resistance Can Look Like (16:00) - Palestine, Empire & Colonialism at Home (22:07) - Gaza, Separation & the Dream of Reaching the Sea (25:18) - Interviewing Palestinian Resistance Fighters (28:06) - “You’ll Find the Empaths” (32:24) - Was October 7 a Mistake? (33:37) - Why Ashira Refuses to Speak for Gaza (36:04) - Palestinian Prisoners & Israeli Detention (42:24) - Ashira’s Own Arrest and Torture (45:41) - Survivor’s Guilt & “Palestinian Mama Loving” (48:22) - Prisoners, Hostages & the Logic of Resistance (50:32) - What Would a Free Palestine Require? (53:02) - Justice, Accountability & What Comes Next (54:37) - Healing, Liberation Psychology & Ashira’s Work (58:11) - Closing Thoughts & Resources ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

For years, Palestinian activist Hamze Awawde worked inside the world of Israeli-Palestinian dialogue organizations, NGOs, international conferences, donor networks, and what he now calls the “industrial-peace complex.” Hamze Awawde SubstackI Was The Good Palestinian - Hamze's EssayHamze on Instagram In this conversation, Hamze offers an insider’s critique of a well-funded system that he argues often substitutes the appearance of dialogue and managing audiences comfort levels for confronting the realities of occupation, dispossession, genocide, and Palestinian political agency. He describes the subtle—and often explicit—pressure placed on Palestinians to moderate their language, accommodate Western/Israeli sensitivities, condemn Hamas before speaking about their own people, and remain within the boundaries of what Western donors and institutions consider acceptable. He also recounts watching Palestinian voices excluded, managed, or replaced when they challenged those boundaries. Hamze also reflects on his own journey from an idealistic teenager growing up amidst the violence of the Second Palestinian Intifada drawn to dialogue and reconciliation, to becoming deeply disillusioned with the institutions in which he spent years working. He speaks about his grandfather, a Palestinian resistance fighter killed before Hamze was born; his family’s experience of occupation and home demolitions; the meaning of resistance; and why he no longer believes human beings are “entitled to hope.” We also discuss what justice might actually look like, the difference between peace and pacification, the limits of “shared grief” without an analysis of power, and what meaningful solidarity with Palestinians asks of people in the West. ⭐️PLEASE LEAVE A RATING AND REVIEW OF THE SHOW ❤️ SUPPORT THE SHOWLEAVE A ONE-OFF TIP ON KO-FI BECOME A REGULAR SUPPORTER ON PATREON  🇵🇸GET INVOLVED  JEWISH VOICE FOR PEACE CONNECTING GAZA 🎙 LISTEN / WATCH / FOLLOW THE THIN VEIL THE THIN VEIL ON ALL PODCAST PLATFORMS THE THIN VEIL ON YOUTUBE THE THIN VEIL ON INSTAGRAM ✍️REACH OUT / SEND FEEDBACK [email protected] 👋 FOLLOW EZRA EZRA ON INSTAGRAM EZRA ON FACEBOOK EZRA'S WEBSITE EZRA ON YOUTUBE 🎵 THEME MUSIC BY MAGIC IN THE OTHER MAGIC IN THE OTHER WEBSITE MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON INSTAGRAM MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON YOUTUBE (00:00) - Coming Up (01:06) - Introduction (04:35) - Hamze’s Story: From Resistance to the Peace Industry (07:25) - Inside the Israeli-Palestinian “Peace Industry” (12:13) - When Hamze Began Seeing Through the Illusion (16:15) - Who Funds the Peace Industry? (20:04) - “This Is a Sedation Process” (27:27) - The Language Palestinians Aren’t Allowed to Use (33:29) - How Palestinian Grief Is Used (38:12) - Why Hamze Stayed for 19 Years (43:16) - Breaking With the Peace Industry (47:41) - Following the Money (49:52) - Were the Friendships Ever Real? (54:59) - His Grandfather, Resistance & Sacrifice (59:51) - Is There Still Hope for a Free Palestine? (01:11:11) - What Can People in the West Actually Do? (01:15:37) - Community, Identity & Following the Truth (01:18:16) - Outro ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

In this episode of The Thin Veil, I sit down with critically acclaimed British musician Alexi Murdoch for a wide-ranging conversation about art, activism, Western culture, and the personal and professional costs of speaking in support of Palestine. Alexi reflects on why he has found it increasingly difficult to simply retreat into the creative process while witnessing the genocide in Gaza, and why he ultimately felt compelled to use his platform more directly. He discusses the tension between art as an indirect way of awakening empathy and the urgency of speaking plainly when people are suffering. The conversation also explores Alexi’s 2025 trip to Palestine, what he witnessed in the West Bank, the experience of meeting Palestinians living under occupation, and how that experience changed his understanding of the situation. He also offers many reflections on the broader Western material culture we are living in, and the shallowness this moment is exposing about it. Alexi and I recorded this conversation in March 2026, before the first episode of The Thin Veil was released. I’m rebroadcasting it now because I think the questions we wrestled with then remain deeply relevant—and because many of you who have discovered the show since its earliest episodes may have never heard this conversation. This also felt like an important conversation to re-air in a time when artists stances on this are being increasingly scrutinized and leading to greater consequences. Alexi Murdoch: https://aleximurdoch.com/ ⭐️PLEASE LEAVE A RATING AND REVIEW OF THE SHOW ❤️ SUPPORT THE SHOWLEAVE A ONE-OFF TIP ON KO-FI BECOME A REGULAR SUPPORTER ON PATREON  🇵🇸GET INVOLVED  JEWISH VOICE FOR PEACE CONNECTING GAZA 🎙 LISTEN / WATCH / FOLLOW THE THIN VEIL THE THIN VEIL ON ALL PODCAST PLATFORMS THE THIN VEIL ON YOUTUBE THE THIN VEIL ON INSTAGRAM ✍️REACH OUT / SEND FEEDBACK [email protected] 👋 FOLLOW EZRA EZRA ON INSTAGRAM EZRA ON FACEBOOK EZRA'S WEBSITE EZRA ON YOUTUBE 🎵 THEME MUSIC BY MAGIC IN THE OTHER MAGIC IN THE OTHER WEBSITE MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON INSTAGRAM MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON YOUTUBE (00:00) - Coming Up: “The Cost of Our Silence” (01:00) - Why Revisit This Conversation? (06:14) - When Art Feels Like an Indulgence (09:19) - When Artists Can’t Afford to Be Oblique (14:30) - How We’re Taught to See Palestine (20:12) - “How Did You Go From ‘I Love This Guy’ to ‘Terrorist Sympathizer’?” (23:50) - A Culture That Lets Us Sleepwalk Through Genocide (25:23) - Can We Have Hope? (28:37) - Does Speaking Out Actually Work? (32:20) - Alexi Goes to Palestine (39:02) - Meeting Basel Adra in Masafer Yatta (42:19) - “Don’t Think of Palestinians as Superhuman” (44:30) - The Problem With “Coexistence” (46:04) - Peace Without Justice (52:18) - Anger, Empathy, and the Limits of Forgiveness (56:33) - The Cost of Speaking Up Is the Honor of Our Lives (01:00:07) - It’s Not Too Late (01:02:33) - The Algorithm and the Death of Complexity (01:04:08) - What Does Anti-Zionism Mean for Israeli Jews? (01:07:35) - Are People Who Seem Unreachable Actually “Gettable”? (01:10:30) - The Isolation of Speaking Out ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

There is a common story that is told about Gaza that goes something like this: Israel dismantled its settlements and withdrew from Gaza in 2005. Gaza was then free to govern itself, make peace with Israel, and develop what could have become a “Singapore on the Mediterranean.” Instead, Palestinians elected a terrorist organization, Hamas, which began firing rockets at Israel and building terror tunnels. In this episode of The Thin Veil, Ezra welcomes Dr. Zachary Foster, historian of Palestine and PhD in Near Eastern Studies, to deconstruct some of the common narratives and assumptions surrounding Gaza in the years between Israel’s 2005 withdrawal and the October 7, 2023 attacks. Did Israel actually leave Gaza? What did the 2005 disengagement mean for Palestinian sovereignty? And did Israel simply end its occupation—or change the way that occupation operated? We explore: Israel's 2005 disengagement from Gaza and what control Israel continued to exercise afterwardThe 2006 Palestinian elections and why Hamas wonThe escalating conflict between Hamas and Fatah and the 2007 Hamas takeover of GazaThe origins and impact of Israel's blockade and siegeGaza's economy, unemployment, electricity, water and sewage systemsIsrael's policies governing the flow of goods and calories into GazaHamas as both a political organization and governing authorityThe tunnel economy and the development of Hamas's military infrastructureThe Second Intifada, suicide bombings and the Israeli responseThe recurring cycles of war and ceasefire between Israel and HamasHamas's 1988 charter and its 2017 political documentThe role of Islamism and the history of HamasThe Abraham Accords and the changing regional political landscapeAnd finally, the strategic thinking that may have led Hamas to October 7 Zachary Foster is the creator of Palestine Nexus, a project dedicated to making the history of Palestine accessible through courses, writing, research and historical resources. Palestine Nexushttps://palestinenexus.com/ ⭐️PLEASE LEAVE A RATING AND REVIEW OF THE SHOW ❤️ SUPPORT THE SHOWLEAVE A ONE-OFF TIP ON KO-FI BECOME A REGULAR SUPPORTER ON PATREON  🇵🇸GET INVOLVED  JEWISH VOICE FOR PEACE CONNECTING GAZA 🎙 LISTEN / WATCH / FOLLOW THE THIN VEIL THE THIN VEIL ON ALL PODCAST PLATFORMS THE THIN VEIL ON YOUTUBE THE THIN VEIL ON INSTAGRAM ✍️REACH OUT / SEND FEEDBACK [email protected] 👋 FOLLOW EZRA EZRA ON INSTAGRAM EZRA ON FACEBOOK EZRA'S WEBSITE EZRA ON YOUTUBE 🎵 THEME MUSIC BY MAGIC IN THE OTHER MAGIC IN THE OTHER WEBSITE MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON INSTAGRAM MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON YOUTUBE (00:00) - Intro: The Story We’re Told About Gaza (04:30) - Who Is Zachary Foster? (06:00) - From Zionism to Anti-Zionism (10:00) - The Myth of Israel “Leaving” Gaza (12:30) - Why Did Israel Withdraw From Gaza? (15:00) - Did Israel Actually End the Occupation? (17:00) - Gaza Disengagement and the West Bank (19:00) - Why Did Hamas Win the 2006 Elections? (24:30) - The Hamas-Fatah Conflict and 2007 Takeover (27:30) - The Origins of the Gaza Blockade (32:30) - Israel’s “Starvation Plus” Policy (37:00) - Was Gaza Being Deliberately Kept in Crisis? (40:00) - Why Did Israel Need Hamas to Survive? (45:00) - The Gaza Tunnel Network (49:00) - Hamas and Governance in Gaza (52:30) - The Second Intifada and Suicide Bombings (55:30) - The “Balance of Terror” (57:30) - Administrative Detention and Palestinian Prisoners (59:30) - The Gaza Wars and Ceasefire Cycles (01:05:30) - Was the Blockade Itself an Act of War? (01:07:30) - Hamas, Islamism and the 1988 Charter (01:09:30) - The Origins and Evolution of Hamas (01:12:00) - Hamas’ 1988 Peace Overture to Israel (01:15:00) - The Israeli “Dove” and Yitzhak Rabin (01:19:30) - The Abraham Accords and Palestinian Isolation (01:24:00) - Hamas, Islamism and Its Political Evolution (01:26:30) - What Was Hamas Thinking on October 7? (01:30:30) - Reimagining October 7 Through Sinwar’s Strategy (01:35:00) - Closing ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Mo Hamzeh is a Palestinian American activist, content creator and author who has been repeatedly banned from Meta platforms—at the time of publishing now on his 45th Instagram account. In this conversation, he talks about growing up Palestinian in a heavily Zionist community, being bullied as a child for identifying as Palestinian, and finally visiting Palestine for the first time in September 2023, just weeks before October 7. We talk about what happened after October 7 and why Palestinians were ignored, why Mo decided he was “done being polite,” his characterization of liberal Zionism as the most dangerous form of Zionism, and why he believes Palestinians should no longer have to defend their own humanity. We also discusses accusations of antisemitism within the Palestine movement and why Mo doesn't even think we should use that term, and how Israel's treatment of the Palestinians and the worlds complicity has exposed the myth of International Law. Follow Mo on Instagramhttps://www.instagram.com/aya.mo.llah/ ⭐️PLEASE LEAVE A RATING AND REVIEW OF THE SHOW ❤️ SUPPORT THE SHOWLEAVE A ONE-OFF TIP ON KO-FI BECOME A REGULAR SUPPORTER ON PATREON  🇵🇸GET INVOLVED  JEWISH VOICE FOR PEACE CONNECTING GAZA 🎙 LISTEN / WATCH / FOLLOW THE THIN VEIL THE THIN VEIL ON ALL PODCAST PLATFORMS THE THIN VEIL ON YOUTUBE THE THIN VEIL ON INSTAGRAM ✍️REACH OUT / SEND FEEDBACK [email protected] 👋 FOLLOW EZRA EZRA ON INSTAGRAM EZRA ON FACEBOOK EZRA'S WEBSITE EZRA ON YOUTUBE 🎵 THEME MUSIC BY MAGIC IN THE OTHER MAGIC IN THE OTHER WEBSITE MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON INSTAGRAM MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON YOUTUBE (00:00) - Coming Up (00:47) - Intro (04:31) - Welcome to the Other Side (07:30) - Mo’s Palestinian Identity (11:18) - Returning to Palestine (14:00) - October 7th & Going All In (16:30) - Breaking Through to a Zionist (18:30) - The New Zionist Rhetoric (20:00) - Liberal Zionism & Selective Activism (25:30) - “Peaceful Zionism” & Denial (27:00) - Why Mo Is Done Being Polite (30:30) - Antisemitism, Anti-Jewish Hate & Zionism (34:30) - Palestine & the Fight Against Oppression (37:00) - Palestine, America & the System (39:00) - The Collapse of International Law (40:30) - Is Revolution Still Possible? (44:30) - Finding Joy During Genocide (48:30) - The Hope of a New Generation (50:00) - Is It Too Late for Gaza? (52:00) - Reclaiming Palestinian Humanity (53:30) - Outro ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

On this episode of The Thin Veil, Ezra sits down with Sam Avraham Stein, a Jewish anti-Zionist activist who, over the last five years, has repeatedly traveled to Palestine to do protective presence work in the occupied West Bank. They trace Sam’s ideological journey, from growing up in a right-wing Orthodox Zionist Jewish community in the U.S., to attending university in Tel Aviv, leading Birthright Israel trips, and eventually becoming involved in activism against the Israeli occupation and publicly advocating for anti-Zionism. Sam describes how this work—and particularly his experience living full-time in rural villages in Masafer Yatta—has shaped his understanding of Palestinian life under occupation, as well as the deep relationships he has developed along the way. He also breaks down the seemingly disparate systems through which Palestinian dispossession and violence are carried out, including Hilltop Youth settlers, the Israeli army, state law, and entrenched settlement cities. Ultimately, he reveals how these forces are not operating independently, but in conjunction as parts of a larger system of Palestinian dispossession, colonization, and ethnic cleansing. PLEASE SUPPORT SAM'S WORK AND FOLLOW HIS JOURNEY https://www.patreon.com/cw/Sam_Avraham/https://www.instagram.com/sam_avraham/ ⭐️PLEASE LEAVE A RATING AND REVIEW OF THE SHOW ❤️ SUPPORT THE SHOWLEAVE A ONE-OFF TIP ON KO-FI BECOME A REGULAR SUPPORTER ON PATREON  🇵🇸GET INVOLVED  JEWISH VOICE FOR PEACE CONNECTING GAZA 🎙 LISTEN / WATCH / FOLLOW THE THIN VEIL THE THIN VEIL ON ALL PODCAST PLATFORMS THE THIN VEIL ON YOUTUBE THE THIN VEIL ON INSTAGRAM ✍️REACH OUT / SEND FEEDBACK [email protected] 👋 FOLLOW EZRA EZRA ON INSTAGRAM EZRA ON FACEBOOK EZRA'S WEBSITE EZRA ON YOUTUBE 🎵 THEME MUSIC BY MAGIC IN THE OTHER MAGIC IN THE OTHER WEBSITE MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON INSTAGRAM MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON YOUTUBE (00:00) - — Cold Open (00:47) - — Introduction (04:31) - — Growing Up Zionist (08:06) - — The First Cracks (10:41) - — Hearing a Palestinian Story (15:22) - — From Liberal Zionism to Activism (17:43) - — Dehumanization & the Great March of Return (19:52) - — What Is Protective Presence? (22:45) - — Living in Um Al-Khair (24:44) - — Awdah: Friendship & Solidarity (27:06) - — Awdah’s Killing (30:18) - — The Machinery of Dispossession (32:22) - — What Occupation Looks Like on the Ground (38:25) - — How Dispossession Becomes State Policy (39:40) - — Areas A, B & C (43:23) - — When Settlers Become Soldiers (44:51) - — The Hilltop Youth (47:07) - — Settlements Aren’t “Moderate” (50:28) - — How Sam’s Positionality Changed (52:15) - — The World Gets Bigger When You’re Not Afraid ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

In this episode of The Thin Veil, Esther and Ezra tear apart the liberal Zionist talking points that claim that if Palestinians resisted better they would not be oppressed.  Haviv Rettig Gur one Middle East analyst at Bari Weiss', Free Press, known for his liberal zionist stance claims that the Palestinian problem comes down to not understanding that Israelis are here to stay and if Palestinians only accepted that truth and peacefully protested Israel would be a democracy.  Point by point Ezra and Esther dismantle the projections and inversions of his talking points. From challenging the lie that Palestinian resistance has only ever been violent, to articulating that Palestinians have done more to take care of this land while Zi onists have actively destroyed it, and finally the recognition that the phrase from the River to the Sea Palestine will be free is one of the most beautiful phrases that should be embraced by all, as it envisions a Palestine where Muslims, Christians and Jews can live side by side in freedom and equality.  ⭐️PLEASE LEAVE A RATING AND REVIEW OF THE SHOW ❤️ SUPPORT THE SHOWLEAVE A ONE-OFF TIP ON KO-FI BECOME A REGULAR SUPPORTER ON PATREON  🇵🇸GET INVOLVED  JEWISH VOICE FOR PEACE CONNECTING GAZA 🎙 LISTEN / WATCH / FOLLOW THE THIN VEIL THE THIN VEIL ON ALL PODCAST PLATFORMS THE THIN VEIL ON YOUTUBE THE THIN VEIL ON INSTAGRAM ✍️REACH OUT / SEND FEEDBACK [email protected] 👋 FOLLOW EZRA EZRA ON INSTAGRAM EZRA ON FACEBOOK EZRA'S WEBSITE EZRA ON YOUTUBE 🎵 THEME MUSIC BY MAGIC IN THE OTHER MAGIC IN THE OTHER WEBSITE MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON INSTAGRAM MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON YOUTUBE (00:00) - Coming Up Teaser (00:32) - Welcome to the Show (01:47) - The Unveiling is a Process (03:57) - Introducing the Hasbara Clip (05:57) - Critiquing Policy Not System (06:39) - Delegitimization and Projection (13:11) - Sumud and Self Determination (18:37) - Myth of Only Violence (23:38) - Liberal Zionists desire for a Perfect Victim (30:06) - Colonial Mindset demands enemies (33:59) - Palestinian Land Stewardship is a gift (35:04) - Closing and Support the Show ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

In this episode of The Thin Veil, host Ezra Lipp speaks with Canadian anti-Zionist Jewish writer, activist and academic Aaron Kreuter, author of Lake Burntshore, a novel set at a Jewish summer camp that explores Zionism, settler colonialism, Jewish identity, and the complicated relationship between diaspora Jews and Israel. The conversation explores the strange and powerful world of North American Jewish sleep-away camp: the sense of living in an alternative society, the wealth and privilege that make that communal utopia possible, and the ways Zionism and Israeli nationalism can become embedded in the fabric of camp life. Kreuter discusses Israeli soldiers serving as staff at North American Jewish summer camps, Israel programs and Birthright, military training programs for Jewish youth, and the broader project of shaping Jewish identity around the State of Israel. This conversation also explores the connections Kreuter draws between settler colonialism in Canada and Palestine, and what it means for Jews living in Canada and the United States to reckon with the land beneath their own communities. Finally, the episode examines the growing divide between Zionist and anti-Zionist Jews after October 7th, the role of anti-Zionist Jewish writers and artists, and whether internal Jewish conversations about Zionism risk becoming a distraction from the urgent reality facing Palestinians. Please Support Gaza Food Relief ProjectAARON KREUTERWEBSITEINSTAGRAM ⭐️PLEASE LEAVE A RATING AND REVIEW OF THE SHOW ❤️ SUPPORT THE SHOWLEAVE A ONE-OFF TIP ON KO-FI BECOME A REGULAR SUPPORTER ON PATREON  🇵🇸GET INVOLVED  JEWISH VOICE FOR PEACE CONNECTING GAZA 🎙 LISTEN / WATCH / FOLLOW THE THIN VEIL THE THIN VEIL ON ALL PODCAST PLATFORMS THE THIN VEIL ON YOUTUBE THE THIN VEIL ON INSTAGRAM ✍️REACH OUT / SEND FEEDBACK [email protected] 👋 FOLLOW EZRA EZRA ON INSTAGRAM EZRA ON FACEBOOK EZRA'S WEBSITE EZRA ON YOUTUBE 🎵 THEME MUSIC BY MAGIC IN THE OTHER MAGIC IN THE OTHER WEBSITE MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON INSTAGRAM MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON YOUTUBE (00:00) - — Intro + Technical Mishap Explanation (06:01) - — Aaron Kreuter: From Jewish Suburb to Anti-Zionism (10:18) - — Why Jewish Summer Camp Feels Like Another World (15:02) - — The Zionist Capture of Jewish Summer Camp (19:52) - — Israeli Soldiers, IDF Culture & Jewish Youth (24:48) - — How Zionism Became the Dominant Jewish Narrative (32:05) - — Settler Colonialism: Canada, Palestine & the Land Beneath Camp (37:33) - — After October 7: "Jewish Fiction" Inside the Jewish Community (42:15) - — Beyond Jewish Feelings: Solidarity with Palestine (45:54) - — Imagining a Better World Through Fiction ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

In this episode of The Thin Veil, Ezra sits down with Palestinian filmmaker, writer, podcaster, and storyteller Rolla Selbak for a wide-ranging conversation on propaganda, identity, Hollywood, and what collective liberation could actually look like. They explore Rolla's journey growing up Palestinian, the moment she began questioning dominant narratives, and how filmmaking and satire have become powerful forms of resistance. Also discussed is Israel's propaganda apparatus, the changing media landscape after October 7th, her experience being dropped by Hollywood's Creative Artists Agency (CAA), and why she now sees that loss as one of the greatest gifts of her career. They also dive into  what it means to have queer Palestinian identity, speaking to Jewish audiences with compassion while remaining uncompromising in the pursuit of justice, and what a truly free Palestine could mean for everyone who calls the land home. Rolla's WebsiteRolla's InstagramRolla's Youtube ⭐️PLEASE LEAVE A RATING AND REVIEW OF THE SHOW ❤️ SUPPORT THE SHOWLEAVE A ONE-OFF TIP ON KO-FI BECOME A REGULAR SUPPORTER ON PATREON  🇵🇸GET INVOLVED  JEWISH VOICE FOR PEACE CONNECTING GAZA 🎙 LISTEN / WATCH / FOLLOW THE THIN VEIL THE THIN VEIL ON ALL PODCAST PLATFORMS THE THIN VEIL ON YOUTUBE THE THIN VEIL ON INSTAGRAM ✍️REACH OUT / SEND FEEDBACK [email protected] 👋 FOLLOW EZRA EZRA ON INSTAGRAM EZRA ON FACEBOOK EZRA'S WEBSITE EZRA ON YOUTUBE 🎵 THEME MUSIC BY MAGIC IN THE OTHER MAGIC IN THE OTHER WEBSITE MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON INSTAGRAM MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON YOUTUBE (00:00) - Intro (02:10) - Rolla's "Thin Veil" moment (08:45) - Growing up Palestinian & questioning dominant narratives (16:30) - Storytelling as resistance (24:15) - Satire, humor & surviving impossible times (30:45) - Queer Palestinian identity & pinkwashing (43:20) - Israeli propaganda & the changing media landscape (56:40) - Hollywood, CAA & finding freedom (01:09:15) - Speaking to Jewish audiences (01:22:30) - Jewish anti-Zionism & solidarity (01:36:00) - What does a free Palestine actually look like? (01:49:30) - Hope, collective liberation & closing reflections ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Welcome to The Thin Veil Unfiltered—a new recurring conversation between Ezra Lipp and Rabbi Esther Azar that is meant to complement the long-form interviews on The Thin Veil. In this pilot episode, Ezra and Esther revisit one of the most nuanced and often misunderstood points from Esther's previous appearance on The Thin Veil: Is what we're witnessing best understood as Jewish supremacy—or Western supremacy operating through Zionism? They wrestle with whether Jewish voices can ever be appropriately centered while Palestinians are being slaughtered, whether Zionism functions as the true "operating system" behind the genocide, why Christian Zionism and Western empire must be part of the conversation, and what responsibility Jewish communities bear within that larger system. ⭐️PLEASE LEAVE A RATING AND REVIEW OF THE SHOW ❤️ SUPPORT THE SHOWLEAVE A ONE-OFF TIP ON KO-FI BECOME A REGULAR SUPPORTER ON PATREON HAKHAM/RABBI ESTHER AZARWEBSITE INSTAGRAM SUBSTACK  🇵🇸GET INVOLVED  JEWISH VOICE FOR PEACE CONNECTING GAZA 🎙 LISTEN / WATCH / FOLLOW THE THIN VEIL THE THIN VEIL ON ALL PODCAST PLATFORMS THE THIN VEIL ON YOUTUBE THE THIN VEIL ON INSTAGRAM ✍️REACH OUT / SEND FEEDBACK [email protected] 👋 FOLLOW EZRA EZRA ON INSTAGRAM EZRA ON FACEBOOK EZRA'S WEBSITE EZRA ON YOUTUBE 🎵 THEME MUSIC BY MAGIC IN THE OTHER MAGIC IN THE OTHER WEBSITE MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON INSTAGRAM MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON YOUTUBE (00:00) - Coming Up (00:00) - Chapter 2 (01:00) - Introducing The Thin Veil Unfiltered (00:00) - Chapter 4 (03:00) - How Ezra and Esther Began Collaborating (00:00) - Chapter 6 (08:35) - The Conversation That Sparked So Much Debate (00:00) - Chapter 8 (10:45) - Why This Conversation Still Centers Palestinian Liberation (00:00) - Chapter 10 (12:40) - "Who Cares That It's Jews?" — Expanding the Frame (00:00) - Chapter 12 (14:45) - Judaism, Zionism, and Western Power (00:00) - Chapter 14 (18:00) - Zionism, Jewish Identity, and Antisemitism (00:00) - Chapter 16 (21:20) - Why Seeing Zionism as the Operating System Matters (00:00) - Chapter 18 (23:20) - Accountability, Responsibility, and Jewish Communities (00:00) - Chapter 20 (25:20) - Ending the Genocide vs. Changing Minds (00:00) - Chapter 22 (27:10) - Is Zionism Itself Antisemitic? (00:00) - Chapter 24 (28:20) - Jewish Power or Western Power? (00:00) - Chapter 26 (30:15) - Are We Centering Jewish Voices Too Much? (00:00) - Chapter 28 (35:30) - Why Esther No Longer Wants to Be Called an Anti-Zionist (00:00) - Chapter 30 (38:40) - Final Reflections ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

In this episode of The Thin Veil, Ezra speaks with Palestinian-American filmmaker, historian, and Sacramento City College professor of Contemporary Palestinian History and Culture, Riad Bahhur. After his parents were denied the right to return to Palestine following Israel's occupation of the West Bank in 1967, Riad spent his early childhood in Venezuela before his family settled in the United States. He reflects on his childhood visits to Palestine, the lessons he learned about living under Israeli military occupation, and the beauty, resilience, and depth of Palestinian culture as embodied by his grandmothers. Later, Riad returned to Palestine to help document the First Intifada, work that contributed to the documentaries People and the Land and Two Blue Lines. Drawing on decades of teaching Palestinian history and culture, he describes the profound sense of betrayal many of his students experience when they encounter these often-overlooked histories for the first time. Toward the end of the conversation, Ezra shares a vulnerable reflection on how dramatically his own understanding of Palestine has changed in a relatively short period of time, and why questioning the narratives he inherited ultimately led to the creation of The Thin Veil. ⭐️PLEASE LEAVE A RATING AND REVIEW OF THE SHOW ❤️ SUPPORT THE SHOWLEAVE A ONE-OFF TIP ON KO-FI BECOME A REGULAR SUPPORTER ON PATREON  🇵🇸GET INVOLVED  JEWISH VOICE FOR PEACE CONNECTING GAZA 🎙 LISTEN / WATCH / FOLLOW THE THIN VEIL THE THIN VEIL ON ALL PODCAST PLATFORMS THE THIN VEIL ON YOUTUBE THE THIN VEIL ON INSTAGRAM ✍️REACH OUT / SEND FEEDBACK [email protected] 👋 FOLLOW EZRA EZRA ON INSTAGRAM EZRA ON FACEBOOK EZRA'S WEBSITE EZRA ON YOUTUBE 🎵 THEME MUSIC BY MAGIC IN THE OTHER MAGIC IN THE OTHER WEBSITE MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON INSTAGRAM MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON YOUTUBE (00:00) - Riad Episode Edit (04:22) - Childhood in Palestine (12:58) - Clip The zionist Project (13:35) - Going back to America, Green (13:56) - Clip? The realest place is Gaza (15:31) - Always called to tell a story (filmmaking) (19:25) - First Intifada History Lesson (24:46) - Intifada - Underground schools and resistance - Green, trim 15% (29:43) - Teaching Palestine - Green (33:07) - Why People Can't See Palestine - Green (42:12) - Palestine Course and culture - Green (43:57) - Mixtape Confession - green (move earlier) (47:38) - Palestine Cultural Theft - Green (49:57) - More Zionist Discussion - Green (merge into previous section) (49:58) - Can Palestine Be Decolonized (Ending?) - Green "don't rush it" (56:51) - Iran/Palestine Trip - Yellow ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Dr. Mark Brauner is an emergency physician who has spent his career responding to trauma, but nothing prepared him for what he encountered while volunteering at Nasser Hospital in Gaza. In this conversation, he reflects on the overwhelming conditions inside the hospital, the starvation crisis, the moral weight of treating mass casualties, and the profound relationships that changed him forever. Rather than finding hatred in the midst of unimaginable suffering, Mark describes encountering extraordinary generosity, compassion, and humanity from the very people enduring the violence. He shares how those experiences reshaped his understanding of medicine, witness, grief, and what it means to remain fully human amidst the most trying circumstances. PLEASE CONSIDER SUPPORTING DOCTORS AGAINST GENOCIDE FOLLOW DR. MARK BRAUNERWEBSITE - INSTAGRAM - SUBSTACK ⭐️PLEASE LEAVE A RATING AND REVIEW OF THE SHOW ❤️ SUPPORT THE THIN VEIL!LEAVE A ONE-OFF TIP ON KO-FI BECOME A REGULAR SUPPORTER ON PATREON  🇵🇸GET INVOLVED  JEWISH VOICE FOR PEACE CONNECTING GAZA 🎙 LISTEN / WATCH / FOLLOW THE THIN VEIL THE THIN VEIL ON ALL PODCAST PLATFORMS THE THIN VEIL ON YOUTUBE THE THIN VEIL ON INSTAGRAM ✍️REACH OUT / SEND FEEDBACK [email protected] 👋 FOLLOW EZRA EZRA ON INSTAGRAM EZRA ON FACEBOOK EZRA'S WEBSITE EZRA ON YOUTUBE 🎵 THEME MUSIC BY MAGIC IN THE OTHER MAGIC IN THE OTHER WEBSITE MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON INSTAGRAM MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON YOUTUBE (00:00) - Coming Up (01:00) - Welcome & Episode Introduction (04:18) - Dr. Mark Brauner's Path to Gaza (07:05) - "I Thought I Was Walking Into a War" (08:30) - Speaking From the Heart & Bearing Witness (12:05) - How Gaza Changed Him (13:20) - Kindness Inside Nasser Hospital (17:10) - The Formula Crisis & Failing to Save Children (19:40) - Lessons Palestinians Taught Him (21:30) - Leaving Gaza & The Aid Blockade (24:20) - Hunger, Starvation & Losing 25 Pounds (27:40) - Caring for the Dying (28:30) - Emergency Medicine in Mass Casualty Conditions (31:00) - Coming Home With Trauma (34:15) - Becoming a Full-Time Witness (36:20) - Gaza Humanitarian Foundation Aid Sites (38:15) - Systematic Gunshot Wounds to Children (42:00) - Why the Death Toll Is Likely Higher (46:00) - Scholasticide & Destroying Gaza's Future (48:15) - Returning Home to America (50:50) - Compassion, Complacency & Bearing Witness (55:10) - Doctors Against Genocide (56:10) - Why Humanity Is More Effective Than Outrage (56:55) - Closing Thoughts ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★