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Send us a question or voice memo! This week on Saving Bread, Allison sits down with Jon and Amanda of Proof Bread in Arizona. Proof began in 2017 with hand-mixed dough, one farmers market, a few wholesale accounts, and a home bakery. Today, Proof has grown to five locations, nearly 100 employees, an in-house milling program, relationships with local grain producers, and an entirely sourdough menu. Jon and Amanda share what that growth has actually looked like behind the scenes, including hiring their first employees, investing in equipment, building systems, developing an efficient menu, scaling production across multiple locations, and learning when holding onto control can eventually hold a business back. They also discuss Proof's transition toward locally grown and house-milled grain, how they work with farmers to plan future wheat crops, and why creating a stronger local grain economy has become such an important part of their work. The conversation also gets into the Proof Intensive, their hands-on program for bakers. Rather than presenting one version of what a bakery should become, Jon and Amanda give bakers an opportunity to see what growth can actually look like and decide for themselves where they want to land. And ultimately, the conversation comes back to something much bigger than scaling a bakery: bread as craft, tradition, community, and something worth preserving. In this episode: • Growing from a garage bakery to five locations • Hiring and learning to let go of control • Choosing equipment that actually gives time back • Building a more efficient bakery menu • Scaling sourdough bread and pastry • Milling flour in-house • Working directly with local grain producers • Building a stronger regional grain economy • The Proof Intensive and education for working bakers • Why bigger isn't necessarily the goal for every bakery • Bread, community, and preserving human craft Find Proof Bread Proof Bread https://www.proofbread.com/ Instagram @proofbread Proof's bakery locations, classes, and additional resources can be found through their website and Instagram.

Send us a question or voice memo! Leah is back for another Rabbit Hole episode, and this time we’re talking about what we’ve been eating, where we’ve been traveling, and the loaf everyone in the bread world seems to have an opinion about. Leah shares her visit to Moulin in Napa, where whole grains and freshly milled flour are worked into breads and pastries. Allison takes us through her trip to Mexico City and Panadería Rosetta, including the guava roll, pan de elote, whole wheat croissants, and the tres leches cake that was good enough to order twice. Then we get into the $60 rye loaf in New York City. What actually makes bread worth more? Where should that money be going? Does a price like this help bring attention to rye and traditional bread, or does it turn bread into a luxury product? We talk through the cost of good ingredients, supporting farmers and millers, paying bakers fairly, local grain, marketing, scarcity, and why the conversation around this loaf has become almost as interesting as the bread itself. Plus, a little preview of The Grain Ritual and what we’re hoping to create with this upcoming three day baking experience. Have thoughts on the $60 rye loaf? Come find us on Instagram at @savingbreadpodcast and tell us what you think.

Send us a question or voice memo! pH is one of the topics I’m asked about most often, but the number on a meter is only one part of understanding fermentation. In Lessons E08 of Saving Bread, I break down what is happening inside a sourdough culture and explain how I use pH in my own baking and production. We talk about the relationship between yeast and lactic acid bacteria, the enzymes naturally present in flour, how starch becomes available to microorganisms during fermentation, why organic acids cause pH to fall, and what happens to dough structure as fermentation continues. I also walk through the actual pH ranges I use for my country bread and higher whole grain doughs, from levain maturity through bulk fermentation, shaping, cold retard, and baking. These are not universal targets. They are examples of how I use pH alongside dough temperature, time, flour choice, expansion, structure, and experience to make fermentation decisions. In this episode: • What yeast and lactic acid bacteria are doing during sourdough fermentation • How amylase and other flour enzymes affect fermentation • What pH actually measures • pH versus total titratable acidity, or TTA • Why whole grain flour has greater buffering capacity • How I evaluate levain maturity • Protease activity and changes in dough strength • My pH checkpoints for country bread and high whole grain bread • Why fermentation continues after dough enters the refrigerator • Why a lower pH does not necessarily mean a bread will taste more sour • What sourdough fermentation does and does not do to gluten • Why pH targets should be developed around your own flour, formula, temperature, and process You do not need a pH meter to make good bread. For me, it has become a useful way to record fermentation, repeat results, and connect measurable data with what I can already see and feel in the dough. The goal is not to chase one perfect number. It is to better understand the dough in front of you. Resources mentioned in this episode Hanna Instruments Bread & Dough pH Tester Hanna HI981038 Bread & Dough pH Tester San Francisco Baking Institute San Francisco Baking Institute Modern Bread and Viennoiserie at SFBI Modern Bread and Viennoiserie course Follow Allison and Matriarch Bread on Instagram: @matriarchbread Follow Saving Bread wherever you listen to podcasts.

Send us a question or voice memo! What does it take to build an incredibly open, delicate sourdough crumb when you are working with different flour, a different climate, and different equipment than the bakers who originally inspired you? This week on Saving Bread, I am joined by Anujay Krishna, a baker in Lucknow, India, whose beautifully open, lacy country loaves have made him one of the most requested guests on the podcast. Anujay did not grow up eating this style of bread. His early relationship with bread came through the rotis and parathas made in his family kitchen. He discovered sourdough years later online, built his own starter, and began learning through videos, baking communities, feedback, experimentation, and a lot of repetition. That process eventually became a bread style that is unmistakably his. We talk about what it means to learn sourdough when the flour, temperature, humidity, equipment, and ingredients available to you are different from the conditions behind the formulas you are studying. Then we get into the dough. Anujay shares how he evaluates a new flour before committing to a hydration, including a small flour and water test at several hydration levels. We talk about the difference between elasticity and extensibility, why protein percentage alone does not tell you how a flour will perform, and what he is looking for when he checks a windowpane. We also get into his approach to gluten development. Anujay prefers to mix his dough to full development and then allow fermentation to inflate the structure he has already built. Instead of folding on a schedule, he waits for the dough to relax and only folds when he believes the dough needs it. We talk about: How he maintains his sourdough starter in the heat of Lucknow Why he moved away from expensive imported flour and learned to work with flour available in India How to test the hydration potential of an unfamiliar flour Elasticity versus extensibility Why flour protein quality can matter more than the number printed on the bag Long cold autolyse for hand mixed dough Managing dough temperature during mixing Full gluten development versus relying heavily on folds Why too many folds can work against an already strong dough High hydration sourdough in the 85 to 86 percent range Using a larger percentage of younger levain Why bulk fermentation is one of the most important parts of his process Gentle shaping and preserving the structure created during fermentation Accounting for continued fermentation while dough cools inside a home refrigerator Cold retard timing Adapting country dough into a sandwich loaf without mixing an entirely different dough Building a sourdough bakery and bread culture in Lucknow And throughout the conversation, one idea keeps coming back: becoming a better baker is not about copying somebody else’s numbers. It is about getting enough repetitions that you begin to recognize your own flour, your own starter, your own environment, and your own dough. Anujay learned from bakers working in completely different conditions and then adapted what he learned until the bread became his own. That may be the most valuable lesson in the entire conversation. RESOURCES MENTIONED Anujay Krishna on Instagram @anujayanstar Trevor Jay Wilson, author of Open Crumb Mastery Open Crumb Mastery The Bread Code by Hendrik The Bread Code TWF Flours in India TWF Flours TWF T55 Bread Flour TWF T55 Versatile Bread Flour Brød & Taylor Sourdough Home Sourdough Home Three One Farms Three One Farms Leviosa microbakery in Jaipur Leviosa on Instagram Follow Saving Bread on Instagram at @savingbreadpodcast. If you enjoyed this conversation, send it to another baker who would love it. Happy baking and long live real bread.

Send us a question or voice memo! How do you choose the right whole grain flour when the names on the bag start to feel overwhelming? Baylin Speidel, head baker at Chimacum Valley Grainery, returns to Saving Bread for a practical conversation about grain selection, flour functionality, extraction rates and scalds. We break down hard red, hard white and soft wheat, along with rye, spelt, buckwheat and einkorn. We talk about which grains provide structure, which may work better in cookies, scalds or pan loaves, and how to choose flour based on what you actually want it to do. We also get into full extraction and high extraction flour, why a T85 does not mean 85 percent extraction, and the questions to ask a farmer or miller before buying a new flour. This is the companion to our whole grain Lessons episode and a practical guide for bakers who want to work with more local, stone milled and whole grain flour. RESOURCES Follow Baylin Speidel Chimacum Valley Grainery WSU Breadlab Listen to Baylin’s first Saving Bread interview Follow Saving Bread

Send us a question or voice memo! What actually changes when you start adding more whole grain to sourdough? In this Lessons episode of Saving Bread, Allison White breaks down what happens when a familiar country loaf moves from mostly white bread flour toward 40, 50, 60, or even 100 percent whole grain. Whole wheat is not white flour with a little extra color. It is a different raw material, and as the percentage increases, it can change water absorption, gluten development, fermentation speed, starter activity, dough strength, pH, handling, and ultimately what a successful loaf looks like. We begin with the wheat kernel itself and look at the role of the bran, germ, and endosperm. Then we move into the basic microbiology of sourdough, including what yeast and lactic acid bacteria are doing during fermentation, how naturally occurring flour enzymes help make sugars available to those microorganisms, and why changing the flour can change the behavior of both your starter and your dough. We also get practical with inoculation and pre fermented flour. Why does adding more levain usually shorten fermentation? How can lowering inoculation help when freshly milled whole grain is moving too quickly? Why can two bakers both say they use 20 percent levain while actually working with very different amounts of pre fermented flour? Then we bring it back to the country loaf and talk through how to begin increasing whole wheat without changing every variable at once. The goal is not to make 100 percent whole grain bread behave exactly like a loaf made with strong refined bread flour. At higher percentages, you are allowed to redesign the bread. We also touch briefly on pH and why a target developed for a mostly white flour dough should not automatically be applied to a high whole grain dough. A full Lessons episode on pH is coming soon. At the end of the episode, I challenge you to choose one whole grain flour and bake with it for ten loaves. Keep the other variables as consistent as possible, take notes, and learn the flour in front of you instead of chasing one universal hydration or fermentation number. This Friday, Baylin Speidel joins me again for the companion conversation. We will talk about hard red wheat, hard white wheat, extraction rates, flour terminology, flour blending, and how to choose a grain based on what you actually want it to do in your bread. This episode is the fermentation and dough side. Friday is the flour selection side. RESOURCES • Andrew Janjigian and Wordloaf: Wordloaf • Preorder Andrew Janjigian’s Breaducation, publishing November 17, 2026: Breaducation from Ten Speed Press and Penguin Random House • Thomas Teffri Chambelland: Thomas Teffri Chambelland • Sourdough Baking: A Treatise by Thomas Teffri Chambelland: Sourdough Baking: A Treatise • Sourdough Panettone and Viennoiserie by Thomas Teffri Chambelland: Sourdough Panettone and Viennoiserie • École Internationale de Boulangerie, founded and directed by Thomas Teffri Chambelland: International Bakery School • San Francisco Baking Institute classes: SFBI Classes • Modern Bread and Viennoiserie with Thomas Teffri Chambelland at SFBI: Modern Bread and Viennoiserie • Hanna Instruments HI981038 Bread and Dough pH Tester: Bread and Dough pH Tester • Listen to my first conversation with Baylin Speidel on stone milled flour and whole grain sourdough: Saving Bread with Baylin Speidel • Chimacum Valley Grainery: Chimacum Valley Grainery • Follow Baylin Speidel: @thedustedstone on Instagram • Saving Bread: Saving Bread Podcast • Follow Saving Bread on Instagram: @savingbreadpodcast Questions for an upcoming Lessons episode? Send me a message through Saving Bread or contact me through Matriarch Bread. Happy baking and long live real bread.

Send us a question or voice memo! Jenny Berg of Crumb Sourdough Microbakery joins me for a conversation about what it actually looks like to build a home-based bread business and how many different paths that can take. Jenny started baking sourdough in 2020 and eventually turned that obsession into Crumb Sourdough Microbakery in Central Oregon. Along the way, she helped organize a grassroots effort to change Oregon’s cottage food laws, built a wholesale business supplying local grocery stores and farm stands, and worked her way up to producing 230 loaves a week on her own. We talk about why she moved away from direct-to-consumer sales, how she found and approached wholesale accounts, wholesale pricing and payment terms, her production schedule, and why predictable income has been worth giving up some margin. We also talk about something that doesn’t get said enough: growth doesn’t always have to be the goal. Jenny shares why she’s no longer interested in building an empire, how she thinks about quality of life and burnout, and what it means to create a business that is actually enough. And at the end, Jenny gives a beautiful answer to the question I ask every guest: What does Saving Bread mean to you? Find Jenny + Crumb Sourdough Crumb Sourdough Microbakery website Jenny on Instagram — @crumb.sourdough.microbakery Cottage Food Resources Jenny Mentioned in the Episode Forrager — Oregon Cottage Food Law Forrager — Oregon Domestic Kitchen Law Institute for Justice — Selling Homemade Food in Oregon

Send us a question or voice memo! This week on Saving Bread, we’re stepping away from the pH meters, fermentation charts, and troubleshooting for a conversation about the other side of bread: history, culture, memory, and story. Allison sits down with Eric Pallant, author of Sourdough Culture: A History of Bread Making from Ancient to Modern Bakers, to ask a deceptively simple question: What actually makes an old sourdough starter old? From there, the conversation travels through thousands of years of bread history. Eric and Allison talk about whether the age and origin of a starter really affect the bread it makes, how humans may have discovered fermentation, the people whose labor shaped bread history, what industrial bread production gave us — and what may have been lost along the way. They also explore why sourdough continues to pull people back, why making bread doesn’t need to be complicated or expensive, and how a starter can carry a story from one baker, kitchen, and generation to the next. Plus, Eric shares what he’s working on next, including his forthcoming book Loaf and The World Atlas of Bread. This is a conversation about sourdough — but also about why bread has remained such an enduring part of human life. In this episode: • What does it actually mean for a sourdough starter to be “old”? • Starter microbiology, lineage, and terroir • How humans may have discovered leavened bread • Bread, labor, and the history of food production • Industrial bread vs. slow fermentation • Making good bread accessible • Why sourdough doesn’t have to be complicated • Why humans keep returning to bread • Eric Pallant’s upcoming books Find Eric + the book: Eric Pallant — Official Website EricPallant.com Sourdough Culture — Book information + purchase options Sourdough Culture by Eric Pallant If you’re enjoying Saving Bread, follow the podcast, leave a rating or review, and share this episode with someone who loves bread. Saving Bread — Long live real bread.

Send us a question or voice memo! Why is your sourdough flat? What causes huge tunnels surrounded by dense crumb? How do you know when bulk fermentation is finished? And when a loaf goes wrong, how do you figure out which part of the process was actually responsible? In this Lessons episode of Saving Bread, Allison walks through the basic country loaf from start to finish and breaks down some of the most common sourdough problems and what to change on your next bake. We cover: Starter and levain strengthHydration and flour absorptionDough temperatureBulk fermentationUnder-fermented vs. over-fermented doughHow to judge when bulk is finishedBasket rise and final proofPreshaping and shaping without overhandling your doughCold proofingScoring placement and depthSteam and oven springWhy a flat loaf or missing ear doesn't always mean your fermentation was wrongThe biggest takeaway from this episode: bread is a system. Starter health, flour, temperature, hydration, fermentation, handling, shaping, scoring and baking all influence the finished loaf. One symptom rarely tells the entire story. Allison also shares an unexpected lesson from a recent three-day sourdough class at Central Milling's Artisan Baking Center. One batch of country loaves baked beautifully. The next batch, made from the same dough, came out completely flat. The difference came down to what happened in the final moments before and during the bake: where the loaves were scored and how they were steamed. It's a great reminder that you can get the fermentation, mixing and shaping right and still dramatically change the final loaf at the oven. Plus, a reminder for home bakers: loving bread does not mean you need to turn it into a business. You are allowed to bake because it's fun. Resources mentioned The Sourdough Journey — Tom Cucuzza Bulk fermentation guides, starter education and sourdough resources. Central Milling Artisan Baking Center — Petaluma, California In-person bread and baking classes. Hillary Austin — Backyard Terroir Instagram: @backyardterroir Follow Saving Bread Saving Bread Podcast Instagram: @savingbreadpodcast Allison White / Matriarch Bread Instagram: @matriarchbreadco Music by Joshua from DOAP. Saving Bread is a podcast about sourdough, whole grains, fermentation, baking science and the people working to keep real bread alive. Long live real bread.

Send us a question or voice memo! How do you actually know when bulk fermentation is finished? What makes a sourdough starter strong and healthy? And how can understanding the science of fermentation help you become a more intuitive baker? This week on Saving Bread, Allison White talks with Tom Cucuzza, creator of The Sourdough Journey, about his years of experimentation with sourdough bread, starter health and bulk fermentation. Tom has built an enormous body of educational work around understanding what is actually happening inside our starters and doughs. In this episode, we get into the details. We talk about: Sourdough starter strength and accumulated acidityWhy repeatedly underfeeding a starter can create problems over timeTom’s peak-to-peak feeding methodHow to recognize when your sourdough starter has reached peakHow to judge the end of bulk fermentationDough temperature and percentage riseWhy fermentation does not stop when bulk fermentation endsGluten development and using the windowpane test throughout fermentationPre-shaping, bench rest, shaping and cold retardRefrigerator temperature and continued fermentationUsing pH as one tool rather than a hard-and-fast fermentation endpointHow changing one variable at a time can help you learn fasterDeveloping baker’s intuition through observation and experimentationThe relationship between science, precision and creativity in bread bakingTom describes himself as both analytical and artistic. For him, understanding the science is not the final goal. It gives him more opportunities to create the bread he wants to make. We also talk about why sourdough should not feel like an exclusive hobby and Tom’s belief that everyone should be able to learn how to make bread. LEARN MORE FROM TOM CUCZZA + THE SOURDOUGH JOURNEY The Sourdough Journey website https://thesourdoughjourney.com/ Instagram: @the_sourdough_journey https://www.instagram.com/the_sourdough_journey/ The Sourdough Journey on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@thesourdoughjourney Sourdough videos and Mastering Bulk Fermentation resources https://thesourdoughjourney.com/videos/ SAVING BREAD Instagram: @savingbreadpodcast https://www.instagram.com/savingbreadpodcast/ Saving Bread is a podcast about sourdough, bread baking, whole grains, fermentation and the people working to preserve and move bread culture forward. Hosted by Allison White.

Send us a question or voice memo! This week on Saving Bread, Allison talks with Parker Cook, baker, educator and content creator behind Basil & Bloom. Parker has built a large online community teaching sourdough bread baking, fermentation, starter maintenance, whole grains, freshly milled flour and microbakery production. But there is already a lot of information online about how Parker makes bread. This conversation looks more at the person behind that information. Parker shares how he went from learning to cook while living in Italy to working as a research and development chef, and how that analytical background shaped the way he approaches sourdough today. They talk about how Parker actually learns a new technique, why he tests ideas repeatedly and side by side, the importance of building experience through repetition, and why becoming a better baker may be as much about becoming a better observer as it is about collecting more information. Parker and Allison also get into what makes an online educator trustworthy. Parker talks about creating content from real questions within his community, simplifying complicated baking concepts without losing the useful information, and the responsibility that comes with recommending products to a large audience. The conversation also covers beginner sourdough mistakes, bulk fermentation, sourdough starter maintenance, stiff starters, freshly milled flour, whole grain baking, microbakery systems, content creation, entrepreneurship and building Basil & Bloom alongside Parker's wife and business partner, Camille. They finish by talking about being open to different approaches to bread and Parker's belief that there are no strict rules in sourdough, only techniques that help you make the bread you want to make. FOLLOW AND SUPPORT PARKER Basil & Bloom Basil & Bloom website Instagram Follow @eatbasilandbloom on Instagram School of Sourdough and online baking courses Explore Parker's sourdough courses Whole grain, freshly milled flour and additional courses Basil & Bloom course library Parker's Picks and affiliate links Shop Parker's recommended baking tools and products If you enjoy Parker's free educational content and purchase a product he recommends, using his affiliate links is one way to directly support Basil & Bloom. If you enjoyed this episode, follow Saving Bread, leave a rating or review and share the episode with another baker. Long live real bread.

Send us a question or voice memo! This week on Saving Bread, Allison talks with Martin Sorge, self taught baker, writer, winner of The Great American Baking Show and author of the new cookbook Great Bakes: Modern Classic Recipes from the Midwest. Martin has spent more than a decade baking with local flour, whole grains and unique grain varieties, and his approach makes experimenting with unfamiliar ingredients feel surprisingly approachable. In this conversation, Martin and Allison talk about why flour deserves the same attention we give local produce, cheese and other regional foods, and how getting to know the grain itself can completely change the way we bake. Martin shares one of his favorite ways to test a flour he has never used before: make a very simple shortbread and let the flavor of the grain speak for itself. They also get into rye bread and some of the misconceptions surrounding it. Martin explains why the flavor many Americans associate with rye is actually caraway, how rye dough behaves differently from wheat dough, why acidity and sourdough are so important in high percentage rye breads and why some traditional rye loaves are actually better when you wait until the next day to cut into them. The conversation also covers buckwheat, spelt, black emmer, soft honey emmer dinner rolls, local grain from Janie’s Mill, German bread culture and Martin’s experience baking with Arnd Erbel in his centuries old bakery in Dachsbach, Germany. Martin also shares what competing on The Great American Baking Show taught him about trusting simple flavors and his own point of view, why failed bakes are an important part of becoming a better baker and why he believes bread deserves to be brought back to the center of the table. Great Bakes: Modern Classic Recipes from the Midwest is available now and includes more than 100 sweet and savory recipes inspired by the ingredients, people and baking traditions of the Midwest. Follow Martin on Instagram: @martinsorge Martin Sorge: martinbakes.com Great Bakes: martinbakes.com/books Martin’s upcoming cookbook events and classes: martinbakes.com/events Janie’s Mill: janiesmill.com Arnd Erbel and Bäckerei Erbel in Dachsbach, Germany: arnderbel.de If you enjoyed this episode, follow Saving Bread and share it with another baker. Ratings, reviews and sharing the podcast are some of the best ways to help more people find these conversations. Long live real bread.

Send us a question or voice memo! What changes when flour stops being the background of a loaf and becomes the whole party? In this episode of Saving Bread, Allison talks with baker and miller Baylin Speidel, head baker at Chimacum Valley Grainery in Chimacum, Washington. Chimacum Valley Grainery brings farming, stone milling, baking, malting, and brewing together on one property. Baylin shares how working this closely with grain transformed the way she understands flour, flavor, fermentation, and bread. Baylin walks us through what happens when a wheat berry passes through a stone mill and explains the meaning of extraction rate, high extraction flour, and one hundred percent whole grain flour. She also shares a practical and encouraging path for bakers who want to begin using more local and freshly milled grain without changing everything at once. You can begin with a familiar bread formula, replace five or twenty percent of the flour, observe what changes, and slowly build your confidence from there. For bakers ready to use larger percentages of whole grain flour, Baylin offers guidance on choosing a flour blend, increasing hydration, shortening mixing time, using an autolyse and bassinage, managing levain percentage, and paying attention to fermentation. She explains why whole grain dough often needs more water than expected, why fresh flour benefits from a gentler approach, and why the way a dough feels is often more important than the hydration number written on the formula. This conversation is also about the relationships behind a loaf of bread. Baylin and Allison discuss the importance of connecting bakers with farmers, millers, grain breeders, and other bakers. They explore how curiosity, communication, and community can help create a stronger and more resilient local grain economy. Whether you are curious about stone milled flour, beginning to experiment with whole grains, or already baking with one hundred percent extraction flour, this episode offers practical guidance and plenty of encouragement to keep learning. IN THIS EPISODE How stone milling works Stone milled flour compared with roller milled flour What extraction rate means High extraction flour and whole grain flour How to begin using local flour Starting with five or twenty percent whole grain Choosing strong and supporting grains for a flour blend Hydration for whole grain sourdough Autolyse and bassinage Mixing fresh milled flour with a gentler touch Using levain percentage to manage fermentation How dough temperature and dough mass affect fermentation Building relationships with local farmers and millers The farming, milling, baking, malting, and brewing model at Chimacum Valley Grainery LINKS AND RESOURCES Chimacum Valley Grainery https://chimacumgrain.com Order stone milled flour and Grainery goods https://chimacumgrain.com/store Chimacum Valley Grainery workshops https://chimacumgrain.com/workshops Follow Chimacum Valley Grainery on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/chimacumgrain Follow Baylin on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/thedustedstone

Send us a question or voice memo! In Lessons Episode 4, we take the country dough formula we created in our Baker’s Math episode and finally turn it into a loaf of bread. I’ll walk you through the entire process, beginning with the night-before levain build and continuing through the autolyse, mixing, gluten development, bulk fermentation, folds, pre-shaping, final shaping, basket proof, cold retard, scoring, baking, cooling, and evaluating the finished loaf. Along the way, we’ll cover:  How to recognize when your levain is ripe and ready  What an autolyse does—and when it may be helpful  Mechanical mixing and the windowpane test  How to reach a Desired Dough Temperature of 78°F  Stretch and folds versus coil folds  How to measure percent rise during bulk fermentation  The signs of under-fermented, properly fermented, and over-fermented dough  Pre-shaping, bench rest, and final shaping  Choosing the right banneton  The room-temperature basket rise before refrigeration  Covering your dough during an overnight cold retard  Scoring and baking in a Dutch oven  How to evaluate the crust and crumb after baking Most importantly, we spend time answering one of the most difficult questions in bread baking: How do I know when bulk fermentation is finished? There is no single bubble, jiggle, percentage, or number on the clock that can answer that question by itself. Instead, we’ll learn how to look for several signals that begin telling the same story: the dough has developed enough gas to feel light and alive, while retaining enough strength to be shaped into a loaf. This is not intended to be a strict bake-along. Listen through the episode once before beginning, then return to individual sections as you work through your own loaf. Your dough may move faster or slower than mine. The goal is not to force it to follow my schedule, it is to understand what you are trying to accomplish during every stage. If sourdough starter maintenance, levain building, or baker’s math still feels unfamiliar, begin with Lessons Episodes 1–3 and then return to this episode. Next time, we’ll use what we learn from this bake to begin troubleshooting under-proofing, over-proofing, weak dough, dense crumb, scoring problems, dark bottoms, and more. Happy baking, and long live real bread. Formula for the Show Notes Levain Build  10 g ripe starter  25 g bread flour  25 g whole wheat flour  50 g water Total levain: 110 g Use 100 g in the final dough. Final Dough  375 g bread flour  75 g whole wheat flour  325 g water  100 g ripe levain  10 g salt Approximate total dough weight: 885 g Total Formula  500 g total flour  20% whole wheat flour  75% hydration  10% pre-fermented flour  2% salt  Links and Mentions Follow Saving Bread on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/savingbreadpodcast/ Listen to or review Saving Bread on Apple Podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/saving-bread/id1896790106  The Perfect Loaf: Complete Bread-Shaping Guide https://www.theperfectloaf.com/guides/shaping-bread-dough/  The Perfect Loaf: How to Shape a Batard https://www.theperfectloaf.com/guides/shaping-a-batard/  Rosehill Sourdough: The BreadMat https://rosehillsourdough.com/product/the-breadmat/  Rosehill Sourdough: Oven Gloves https://rosehillsourdough.com/product/gloves/  Music by Joshua from DOPE

Send us a question or voice memo! Ally and Leah are back down the Rabbit Hole for a casual conversation about sourdough experiments, bakery field trips, and the stories we tell through bread. Inspired by Sourdough Culture by Eric Pallant, Leah creates a sourdough starter from scratch for the first time—funky smells, mysterious liquid, daily feedings and all. Meanwhile, Ally compares a traditional flour-and-water starter with one made using pineapple juice. They discuss false rises, acidity, starter pH, unpleasant early-stage bacteria and whether the pineapple juice method actually makes creating a starter easier. Then they recap their visit to Beloved’s Bakery & Café in Reno, Nevada, where they sampled sourdough bread, bialys, pretzels and an impressive assortment of laminated pastries. Finally, they go deep on inclusions in bread. Are jalapeño cheddar and cranberry walnut loaves simply delicious products that customers love—or can inclusions become something more? Ally and Leah explore how local, seasonal and culturally meaningful ingredients can help bakers differentiate their work, celebrate their communities and turn a loaf of bread into a story. This episode is an invitation to experiment, stay curious and consider not only what goes into your bread, but why it belongs there. LINKS & MENTIONS Sourdough Culture by Eric Pallant https://www.ericpallant.com/book/sourdough-culture/ Debra Wink’s Pineapple Juice Solution — Part One https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10856/pineapple-juice-solution-part-1 Debra Wink’s Pineapple Juice Solution — Part Two https://www.thefreshloaf.com/10901/pineapple-juice-solution-part-2 Kathryn Shields — Amore Fermentum Instagram: @amore_fermentum https://www.instagram.com/amore_fermentum/ Laila — The Early Rise Instagram: @theearlyrisebaker https://www.instagram.com/theearlyrisebaker/ Alexandra Allen — Wild Woman Bakery Instagram: @wildwomanbakery https://www.instagram.com/wildwomanbakery/ Beloved’s Bakery & Café 299 E Plumb Lane, Suite 129 Reno, Nevada https://www.belovedsbread.com/ Instagram: @belovedsbread https://www.instagram.com/belovedsbread/ Love, Yvonne Cakes Instagram: @love.yvonne https://www.instagram.com/_love.yvonne_/ Graison Gill Instagram: @graisongill https://www.instagram.com/graisongill/ Sarah Owens Instagram: @sarah_c_owens https://www.instagram.com/sarah_c_owens/ Music by Joshua from DOPE.