Advertise on podcast: Park Leaders Show

"We humans can really mess things up, but we also have a great capacity to do good as well." Episode Chapters [00:02:21] How Isle Royale shaped Wayne's approach to conservation [00:06:53] Understanding the barred owl's natural range expansion [00:10:14] Questioning whether barred owls are the primary problem [00:13:16] Examining the federal barred owl removal strategy [00:16:19] Why removing barred owls may become a continuous cycle [00:23:31] Wayne's advice for future park leaders and conservationists Animal advocate Wayne Pacelle joins Jody to take a closer look at the debate over barred owls in the Pacific Northwest. Spotted owl populations are declining, and one proposed solution is removing barred owls that compete with them. But Wayne questions whether killing one native species is the best way to protect another. They talk about how barred owls reached the region, the role habitat loss has played, and why removing owls may not solve the larger problem. Wayne also shares how his time at Isle Royale National Park shaped the way he thinks about animals, conservation, and our responsibility to protect natural ecosystems. Read the blog for more from this episode. Connect with Wayne Center For a Humane Economy Animal Wellness Action LinkedIn Wayne Pacelle Resources www.parkleaders.com https://parkleaders.com/about/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theparkleaders/

"Government isn't changed by policies. Government is changed by people." Episode Chapters [00:03:04] Why bureaucracy exists and what it was designed to accomplish [00:07:38] Five practical ways to move ideas forward in large organizations [00:10:19] Why reaching a decision maker is often the biggest obstacle [00:11:03] How leaders can empower employees to accomplish more [00:15:27] Why parks must think beyond today and plan for future generations [00:20:21] Finding the people who influence decision makers Phil Gaines returns to the Park Leaders Show for a discussion with Jody Maberry on one of the biggest challenges facing park leaders: getting things done in a bureaucracy. Phil explains why government was intentionally designed to move deliberately and how leaders can successfully navigate that reality. He shares five practical strategies for advancing ideas, including thinking strategically, understanding organizational systems, using visuals, finding champions, and reaching decision makers. The conversation also explores how leaders can build cultures that empower employees, encourage innovation, and move important initiatives forward for the benefit of future generations. Read the blog for more from this episode. Resources www.parkleaders.com https://parkleaders.com/about/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theparkleaders/

"The administrator's job is to support the people who serve visitors every day." Episode Chapters [00:03:17] Bob McGill reflects on a 35-year career with Nevada State Parks [00:04:57] Discovering that leadership can be a support role [00:07:41] Surpassing milestones as a state park director [00:10:03] Growing staffing, equipment, and resources across Nevada State Parks [00:13:15] Why great park teams focus on the mission, not job titles [00:21:31] Bob's advice for future park leaders Bob McGill, recently retired administrator of Nevada State Parks, joins to reflect on a career spanning more than 35 years in parks. Bob shares how an unexpected path led him from park ranger to administrator and why he views leadership as a support role for the people serving visitors every day. This conversation explores agency growth, staffing, equipment modernization, the acquisition of important conservation properties along the East Walker River, and the culture of teamwork that defines park professionals. Bob also offers advice for future leaders about credibility, follow-through, and inspiring the next generation to connect with the outdoors. Resources www.parkleaders.com https://parkleaders.com/about/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theparkleaders/

"You cannot personally make sure every visitor has a great time... but you can make sure at least one visitor has a great experience." Episode Chapters [03:36] Shifting from high attendance to quality visitor experiences [05:33] Complexities of social carrying capacities explored [08:50] Relying on technology and reservation systems [10:22] Zion crowding and alternative options [13:45] Addressing transportation infrastructure and shuttle loops [16:20] Preventing staff burnout and managing morale [19:13] Unintended consequences of park management choices The busy summer season is officially here. We always asked for more people to discover the beauty of parks and conservation, and they certainly are! In this episode, Jody Mayberry welcomes back retired director of South Carolina State Parks, Phil Gaines, to discuss the realities of managing capacity, infrastructure, and visitor expectations during the peak summer months. Phil and Jody trace how park philosophies have shifted from the old-school mentality of "packing them in" to a modern focus on preserving the social and resource carrying capacities of our public lands. They share personal stories from Zion and South Carolina's Lake Jocassee to highlight the balance between technology, transportation infrastructure, and personal connection. This episode serves as a guide for park supervisors on how to protect staff morale and prevent rangers from burning out on continuous traffic control. Read the blog for more from this episode. Resources www.parkleaders.com https://parkleaders.com/about/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theparkleaders/

"The best park art helps you feel like you're standing there." Episode Chapters [00:43] Arden Von Hager shares how a childhood outdoors connection shaped his life and art [02:28] How Arden's artistic talent was recognized and developed into a career [09:48] Creating national park artwork that captures what a place feels like [14:24] The intentional process behind every painting [23:18] Exploring opportunities for artist residencies and workshops in parks [28:47] How art can inspire conservation and deepen public engagement Jody Maberry welcomes artist and retired professor Arden von Haeger to discuss how he uses art to showcase the beauty of the natural world. Arden grew up in Pennsylvania, spending his childhood hiking and fishing. That love of the outdoors ultimately lead to a decades-long illustration career led to creating award-winning national park artwork for Anderson Design Group. In this episode, Arden explains how he approaches each painting with intentional choices about composition, lighting, wildlife, and color. He works to capture what a place feels like rather than simply what it looks like. Listen to hear how art can inspire conservation, engage visitors, and create deeper emotional connections to parks and public lands. Read the blog for more from this episode. Connect with Arden von Haeger vonHaeger.com Resources www.parkleaders.com https://parkleaders.com/about/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theparkleaders/

"Parks become even more meaningful when you can track the memories you've made there." Notable Moments [00:00:32] Jada Dooling shares her family's goal to visit all 50 states [00:02:28] How a road trip inspired the creation of All Roads Taken [00:05:11] Features that help travelers set goals and track progress [00:08:59] Using photos to automatically verify park visits [00:10:35] Jada's favorite state and national parks [00:18:32] How parks can partner with All Roads Taken Jody Maberry welcomes Jada Dooling, co-founder of All Roads Taken, a travel app that helps families track where they've been and discover new places to explore. Jada shares how a road trip inspired the idea and how she and her husband built the app around their family's goal of visiting all 50 states. The conversation covers features like goal tracking, photo-based check-ins, and digital passports for state and national parks. Listen to this episodo to learn how All Roads Taken partners with parks to offer adventure badges and tools that encourage visitors to explore more and make lasting memories. Read the blog for more from this episode.  Connect with Jada Dooling Website All Roads Taken LinkedIn Jada Dooling LinkedIn All Roads Taken Resources www.parkleaders.com https://parkleaders.com/about/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theparkleaders/

"When someone changes, something has changed in their life." Notable Moments [00:00:02] Why this episode was difficult but necessary to record [00:01:22] Personal experience with depression while working in parks [00:03:25] Lee Cockerell shares his experience with anxiety [00:09:48] The importance of routine, activity, and support [00:19:19] Why you should talk openly and seek help [00:29:27] Recognizing changes in others and taking action Jody Maberry shares a personal experience with depression and why this topic is important for park leaders. The episode includes a conversation with Lee Cockerell, who discusses his experience with anxiety. Lee shares how it developed and what he has done to manage it. The conversation highlights how mental health challenges can affect anyone, regardless of role or success. It's critical to recognize changes in others and yourself. If you are experiencing depression or anxiety it is important to talk to someone. It's important that leaders and team members to support one another. No one should face these challenges alone. Read the blog for more from this episode.  Resources www.parkleaders.com https://parkleaders.com/about/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theparkleaders/

"Legacy is not what you leave for people. It's what you leave in people." Notable Moments [00:00:56] How a simple story sparked a deeper look at legacy [00:03:43] Why you don't get to choose your legacy [00:06:32] The difference between leaving something for people vs. in people [00:07:45] Why your greatest impact often goes unnoticed [00:12:42] The reality of leadership: not everyone will agree with you [00:20:52] Practical advice for building your legacy from day one Jody Maberry and Phil Gaines explore the concept of legacy and what it truly means for park leaders. Phil shares insights from his career, including why leaders don't get to choose their legacy and how it's ultimately defined by others. The conversation focuses on the idea that legacy is not about projects or accomplishments, but about the impact left in people. They discuss how leadership decisions, relationships, and everyday interactions shape how others remember you. Phil also offers advice for early career leaders, encouraging them to stay grounded in purpose, lead with values, and recognize that their legacy begins with their very first day. Resources www.parkleaders.com https://parkleaders.com/about/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theparkleaders/

"Technology should enhance the story without intruding on the landscape." Notable Moments [00:01:23] How immersive storytelling helps museums and visitor centers [00:03:36] Approaching historic sites without overpowering artifacts [00:07:22] Why media creates emotional connections for visitors [00:11:37] How interpretive signs enhance experiences along trails [00:13:58] Using technology like QR codes to expand storytelling [00:19:02] Extending ranger knowledge through media and audio [00:26:13] Helping parks refresh outdated exhibits with phased plans [00:29:35] Advice for park leaders about engaging future generations Jody Maberry welcomes guest Tim Steinouer, executive producer for BPI, a multimedia company that specializes in immersive environments for museums, attractions, and visitor centers. Tim shares how thoughtful storytelling, media, and interpretive design can enhance visitor experiences without overpowering the natural or historic elements that make parks special. Tim shares how BPI helps modernize exhibits, use technology carefully along trails, and capture the voices of park rangers to extend interpretation beyond the visitor center. This is the kind of creative thinking that is important for park leaders to consider. How are you helping future generations discover, experience, and connect with parks? Read the blog for more from this episode.  Connect with Tim Steinouer BostonProductions.com Tim Steinouer  Resources Park Leaders About Park Leaders The Park Leaders

"These women helped protect our forests long before most people realized their role." Episode Highlights [00:00:42] Welcoming Allison Martin back to the show [00:02:16] Introducing the history of fire lookouts [00:05:04] Why lookout towers were critical for early fire detection [00:08:33] Women who served as early fire lookouts [00:12:11] The responsibilities of monitoring forests from remote towers [00:17:45] The solitude and discipline required for lookout work [00:21:18] Why these stories matter for understanding park history This episode welcomes Allison Martin back to the show. Allison is an English teacher from Indiana and host of IN the Parks podcast, where she shares stories connected to Indiana State Parks. In this episode, Jody shares one of Allison's podcast episodes that explores the history of women who served as fire lookouts. Long before modern fire detection systems, lookout towers played a critical role in protecting forests. The episode does a fantastic job showcasing the dedication, responsibility, and often overlooked contributions of women who helped protect forests and public lands. Read the blog for more from this episode.  Connect with Allison IN the Parks Podcast website Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/INtheParksonline Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/INtheparksonline Resources www.parkleaders.com https://parkleaders.com/about/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theparkleaders/

"It may not be your fault, but it is your responsibility." Notable Moments [00:02:29] Leadership transitions are creating uncertainty across parks and agencies [00:04:06] Leadership is hard, relentless, and has no finish line [00:09:06] Accountability means owning outcomes, even when they aren't your fault [00:10:30] Vision and communication give direction to leadership [00:11:15] You don't have to be the smartest, but you must be knowledgeable [00:12:15] "It may not be your fault, but it is your responsibility" in action [00:13:51] There is no such thing as no leadership. Someone will emerge [00:22:56] Leadership development begins long before you have the title [00:25:17] How initiative at any level inspires leaders above you Phil Gaines joins Jody Maberry to discuss the keys to good leadership during times of transition in parks and conservation. They explore why leadership is hard, why it has no finish line, and why accountability, confidence, vision, communication, and knowledge are critical. Leadership isn't defined by a position. It's a matter of taking action, and it starts long before you receive the title. Read the blog for more from this episode.  Resources www.parkleaders.com https://parkleaders.com/about/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theparkleaders/

"You don't get a second chance at a first impression." Notable Moments [00:00:59] Introducing the concept of "moment of truth" [00:02:13] Premises as the "front porch" of the park [00:06:21] Defining product beyond retail [00:09:58] Promises and the purpose of parks [00:16:07] Why people are the most fragile moment of truth [00:22:09] The importance of the uniform and credibility [00:24:26] Final reminder: don't miss the moment A moment of truth happens when a guest comes in contact with what you do and the experience it gives them. Jody Maberry and Phil Gaines explore how this concept applies to parks and conservation leadership. They break it into four areas: premises, product, promises, and people and discuss how each interaction shapes a visitor's experience. From first impressions at the entrance gate to the power of a ranger's uniform, every contact becomes a defining moment. Read the blog for more from this episode.  Resources www.parkleaders.com https://parkleaders.com/about/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theparkleaders/

"We were sent to Alaska to show the flag, explain why we were there, and make sure nobody got hurt. None of that was guaranteed." Notable Moments [00:04:26] Why the Alaska Ranger Task Force was formed [00:06:12] Establishing a ranger presence across 60 million acres [00:10:05] Hostility toward rangers on the ground [00:19:25] Aircraft sabotage and safety risks [00:24:22] Plane burned during task force operations [00:31:10] Defusing a tense confrontation in McCarthy [00:39:36] A landmark game case in Gates of the Arctic [00:46:53] Defining success: restraint and leadership Walt Dabney recounts his experiences as part of the 1979 Alaska Ranger Task Force, a small group sent to establish a National Park Service presence following the proclamation of new national monuments. He shares stories of isolation, hostility, restraint, and leadership during a pivotal moment in public lands history. Read the blog for more from this episode.  Resources www.parkleaders.com https://parkleaders.com/about/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theparkleaders/

"People don't fall in love with parks because of facts alone. They fall in love when they understand the stories." Notable Moments [00:00:55] Why Allison started a podcast about Indiana State Parks [00:02:32] Discovering a love for the outdoors later in life [00:03:17] How the podcast gained support from Indiana State Parks [00:06:27] Finding stories inside each park [00:08:02] Why interpretive naturalists are powerful storytellers [00:14:00] Rediscovering familiar parks through curiosity [00:18:22] The role of hospitality in Indiana State Parks [00:24:51] Advice for civilians who want to have an impact on parks Allison Martin, an English teacher from Indiana and host of In the Parks, shares how storytelling can deepen connections to state parks. She discusses creating a podcast without prior experience, working with park staff, highlighting interpretive naturalists, and how civilians can meaningfully support parks through curiosity, volunteering, and visitation. Read the blog for more from this episode.  Connect with Allison IN the Parks Podcast website Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/INtheParksonline Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/INtheparksonline Resources www.parkleaders.com https://parkleaders.com/about/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theparkleaders/

"Parks are about relationships. With your team, your communities, your partners. That's what sustains leadership over time." Notable Moments 00:01:03 – Lisa shares her unconventional path into parks leadership 00:05:38 – Why relationships are the key to long-term success as a director 00:09:03 – The value of national peer networks for park leaders 00:13:18 – How visitor behavior has changed since the pandemic 00:15:12 – Adapting parks without losing their purpose 00:24:02 – Leading through budget shortfalls with transparency 00:29:18 – What Oregon State Parks does better than anyone else 00:30:33 – Advice for emerging park leaders In this episode, Jody Maberry talks with Lisa Sumption, Director of Oregon State Parks, about long-term leadership, teamwork, and navigating change in modern park systems. Strong park systems aren't built on policies alone. They're built on trust, teamwork, and relationships that last. Leadership rooted in people, not ego, makes all the difference. Resources www.parkleaders.com https://parkleaders.com/about/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theparkleaders/