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Headlines have been screaming about a new study suggesting that vaping could cause cancer — and that vaping could be just as dangerous as cigarettes. And if this were true, it would be a HUGE deal. We’ve been hearing for years that vaping is a safer option — and can help you quit ciggies. But the new paper has run up against angry criticisms from other scientists, with some calling the paper "misleading" and "problematic." So what’s going on?? Do scientists still think vaping is safer than cigarettes? How well do vapes actually help people quit smoking? And could Big Tobacco be behind the scenes, clouding the truth about all of this?? We get help sorting it out from Professor Bernard Stewart, Professor Lion Shahab and Professor Becky Freeman. Find our transcript here: https://tinyurl.com/ScienceVsVapingCancer In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Vaping world set alight by new study (02:50) Why Some Scientists Have Linked Vaping to Cancer (07:45) Why Some Scientists Pushed Back Against Vaping-Cancer Claims (17:51) Is Vaping as Dangerous as Smoking? (25:15) Do Vapes Help People Quit Smoking? (30:52) Big Tobacco Is Funding Vaping Research This episode was produced by Wendy Zukerman and Rose Rimler, with help from Ekedi Fausther-Keeys, Meryl Horn and Michelle Dang. We’re edited by Blythe Terrell. Wendy Zukerman is our executive producer. Fact checking by Erica Akiko Howard. Mix and sound design by Bobby Lord. Music written by Bumi Hidaka, Peter Leonard, Emma Munger and Bobby Lord. Additional music from Parry Music Library / BMGPM. Thanks so much to the Australian science media centre and all the scientists who responded to our emails on this — we asked a lot of you!. A big thanks to Joseph Lavelle Wilson and the Zukerman family. Science Vs is a Spotify Studios Original. Listen for free on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Follow us and tap the bell for episode notifications.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Lots of us love — or love to hate — running. And we do it because it’s supposed to be healthy, right?! But then we hear tons of stories about runners getting hurt — sometimes so badly that they have to hang up their sneakers. And there are people on social media going even further, claiming it’s one of the worst things we can do for our bodies. So IS running secretly bad for us? And could too much of it actually bring you closer to a heart attack? We’ll explore the science on all of that, and we’ll also dig into runner’s high: What is going on in the brain to cause this feeling? With help from Dr. Rasmus Østergaard Nielsen, Professor Duck-Chul Lee, and Dr. Michael Siebers, we look at the science to find out if running is the key to a healthy life or if there are peer-reviewed reasons to be a hater.  Find our transcript here: https://tinyurl.com/sciencevsrunning  In this episode, we cover: (01:48) What’s the deal with running injuries? (10:51) How to get hurt less (15:03) The secret to a longer life (19:34) What is the runner’s high?  (28:58) How to get runner’s high This episode was produced by Ekedi Fausther-Keeys with help from Blythe Terrell, Michelle Dang, Rose Rimler, Meryl Horn and Wendy Zukerman. We’re edited by Blythe Terrell. Wendy Zukerman is our executive producer. Fact checking by Taylor White. Mix and sound design by Bobby Lord. Music written by Bumi Hidaka, Peter Leonard, Emma Munger and Bobby Lord. Thanks to the researchers we got in touch with for this episode, including Dr. Anita Eberl, Dr. Johannes Fuss, Professor Robert Otto, Dr. Hirofumi Tanaka, Dr. Peter Kokkinos, Dr. Marilyn Moffat, and Director Brian Farr. A big thanks to Joseph Lavelle Wilson and the Zukerman family.  Science Vs is a Spotify Studios Original. Listen for free on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Follow us and tap the bell for episode notifications. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The moon race is back! NASA’s Artemis II mission just sent four astronauts around the moon. And other countries — and billionaires — are lining up to take a crack at returning to the moon too. But why are we really going? Some say this is a lunar gold rush, that countries want to mine the moon for resources. Others are saying the real reason to go to the moon today is that it’ll help us get to Mars. To find out, we talk to engineer Dr. Angel Abbud-Madrid, physicist Prof. Nicolle Zellner, and astronomer Prof. Gregg Hallinan.  [REBROADCAST] Find our transcript here: https://tinyurl.com/ScienceVsGoingBackToMoon  UPDATE 4/9/26: We updated this episode with information about more recent efforts to mine Helium-3 from the moon. This episode was produced by Meryl Horn and Ekedi Fausther-Keeys, with help from Wendy Zukerman, Rose Rimler, Meryl Horn, and Michelle Dang. We’re edited by Blythe Terrell. Fact checking by Diane Kelly. Mix and sound design by Bumi Hidaka. Music written by Bumi Hidaka, Peter Leonard, Emma Munger and Bobby Lord. Thanks to the researchers we got in touch with for this episode, including Dr. Tom Simko, Professor Jack Burns, Dr. Paul Byrne, Dr. Martin Elvis, Dr. John Mather, Dr. Jennifer Whitten, Dr. Ian Crawford, Dr. Simon J Lock, and Dr. Greg De Temmerman. Special thanks to Chris Suter, Jack Weinstein, the Zukerman family, the Fausther-Keeys family, and Joseph Lavelle Wilson. Science Vs is a Spotify Studios Original. Listen for free on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Follow us and tap the bell for episode notifications.  In this episode, we cover: (00:00) We’re going back to the moon! (06:23) Should we dig up rare earth elements on the moon? (10:05) Should we go back to the moon for Helium-3?(14:54) The moon as a training ground for Mars (19:55) The FARSIDE telescope: a portal into the universe’s history (27:12) So is it worth returning to the moon? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The apps on our phones do an amazing job of sucking us in. In fact, a big court case just found that some of these companies should be held responsible for basically designing products to be addictive. And that might not be shocking for lots of us, who feel the pull of these algorithms every day. So, is there anything we can do to help us put down our phones?? Tons of solutions are bandied about: Buy this special device to stay off your phone! What we really need to do is up the friction! Or go hardcore — just get a flip phone! But what actually works to stop scrolling? We dive into the science to find out, with help from computer science and engineering researcher Dr. Jaejeung Kim and psychologist Dr. Lea-Christin Wickord. Find our transcript here: https://tinyurl.com/ScienceVsStopScrolling  In this episode, we cover: (00:00) The Apps Got Us Trapped (04:21) Yes, it’s the scrolling that’s to blame (06:18) The Hardcore Approach (11:45) The Gentle Nudge (14:09) What if we up the friction? (19:59) Is greyscale the solution? (28:50) If we stop scrolling, do we feel better? (30:37) Final tips to stop scrolling This episode was produced by Meryl Horn, with help from Wendy Zukerman, Rose Rimler, Michelle Dang, and Ekedi Fausther-Keeys. Wendy Zukerman is our executive producer. We’re edited by Blythe Terrell. Fact checking by Erica Akiko-Howard. Mix and sound design by Bobby Lord. Music written by Bobby Lord, Bumi Hidaka, So Wylie, Emma Munger and Peter Leonard. Thanks so much to the researchers we spoke to, including Dr. Kai Lukoff, Hyunsung Cho, Dr. Alex Holte, Dr. Jan Ole Rixen, Dr. Jay Olson, and Dr. Noah Castelo. A big thanks to Joseph Lavelle Wilson and the Zukerman family. Science Vs is a Spotify Studios Original. Listen for free on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Follow us and tap the bell for episode notifications.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, best-selling author and nerd Mary Roach joins us to talk all about sex. We’ll uncover the secrets of the female orgasm (does “upsuck” exist?), detail the bizarre methods of pioneering sex researchers like Masters and Johnson (including a famous penis camera), and get into the nitty-gritty of how to sexually stimulate a pig in Denmark. Plus, Mary tells us what it's like to have sex while getting an ultrasound — all in the name of science. Mary’s new book, Replaceable You: Adventures in Human Anatomy, is out now. Find our transcript here: https://tinyurl.com/ScienceVsMaryRoach In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Meet Mary Roach, one of our favorite nerds (22:31) The masturbating fetus (27:53) Mary bonks in the lab  (47:31) Oddball questions This episode was produced by Wendy Zukerman, with help from Meryl Horn, Ekedi Fausther-Keeys, Michelle Dang, and Rose Rimler. We’re edited by Blythe Terrell. Video editing and sound design by Bobby Lord. Music written by Emma Munger, So Wylie, Peter Leonard, Bumi Hidaka and Bobby Lord. Thanks to Skyline Studios and Humdinger Studios. Science Vs is a Spotify Studios Original. Listen for free on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Follow us and tap the bell for episode notifications. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Colorectal cancer has long been thought of as a disease of older folks. But that's changing — fast. Rates in older people are actually going down, and more and more people under 50 are getting this disease. And a surprising number of them are dying from it. So what’s going on here? We dig into why young people are getting hit harder. Plus, we often hear that you should watch out for changes in your poo. But what changes?? We’ll find out. We talk to gastrointestinal medical oncologist Dr. Michael Foote and cancer biologist Prof. Ludmil Alexandrov. Find our transcript here: https://tinyurl.com/ScienceVsColonCancer In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Becca’s story (05:52) What the rise looks like (09:06) Is there something different about this cancer? (14:13) What symptoms to look out for (17:41) Why is this happening? (21:34) The hunt for explanations This episode was produced by Michelle Dang, with help from Rose Rimler, Meryl Horn and Ekedi Fausther-Keeys. Wendy Zukerman is our executive producer. We’re edited by Blythe Terrell. Fact checking by Erica Akiko-Howard. Mix and sound design by Bobby Lord and Bumi Hidaka. Music written by Bobby Lord, Bumi Hidaka, So Wylie, Emma Munger and Peter Leonard. And thank you to Prof. Caitlin Murphy. Science Vs is a Spotify Studios Original. Listen for free on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Follow us and tap the bell for episode notifications. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

People are reporting a very strange phenomenon: They say that when their nipples get touched, they feel this weird sinking feeling. People describe it like being homesick, or hung over. Some feel anguish and despair, others call it dread. The condition has a name: "Sad Nipple Syndrome." But how could just touching a nipple set off all of these feelings?? To get to the bottom of this booby baffler, we go deep into the mysteries of anatomy and through a world of hormones and nipple erections. You might never look at your nipples the same way again! Distinguished Professor Barry Komisurak and Lactation Specialist Alia Macrina Heise join us. Find our transcript here: https://bit.ly/ScienceVsSadNippleSyndrome In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Meet Sad Nipple Syndrome (05:14) Why is Nipple Play Arousing? (09:58) Dysphoric Milk Ejection Reflex (D-MER) (15:14) How Milk Ejects From a Booby (17:33) Is Oxytocin to blame?  (19:36) Suspect Number 2: Dopamine (20:52) What might help This episode was produced by Wendy Zukerman, with help from Meryl Horn, Rose Rimler, Michelle Dang and Ekedi Fausther-Keeys. We’re edited by Blythe Terrell. Fact checking by Erica Akiko Howard. Mix and sound design by Bobby Lord. Music written by Emma Munger, So Wiley, Peter Leonard, Bumi Hidaka and Bobby Lord. A special thanks to the researchers we reached out to including Dr. Christina Raimondi, Professor Caroline Pukall, Professor Craig Richard, and Prof. Dr. Inga D. Neumann. and a big thanks to Joseph Lavelle Wilson and the Zukerman family. Science Vs is a Spotify Studios Original. Listen for free on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Follow us and tap the bell for episode notifications.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's 1988 in Lesotho, and doctors at a hospital see something they thought was impossible. A 15-year-old girl shows up pregnant and in labor, but she's missing something pretty crucial to her delivery: a vagina. So — how did this happen?? We go on a roller-coaster ride through the reproductive system with Dr. Neel Shah to find out. Find our transcript here: https://tinyurl.com/sciencevsnovagina  In this episode, we cover: (00:00) A small war  (04:12) How do you get pregnant without a vagina? (14:37) The final unbelievable chapter This episode was produced by Ekedi Fausther-Keeys with help from Wendy Zukerman, Michelle Dang, Rose Rimler, and Meryl Horn. We’re edited by Blythe Terrell. Fact checking by Diane Kelly. Mix and sound design by Bobby Lord. Music written by Emma Munger, So Wiley, Peter Leonard, Bumi Hidaka and Bobby Lord. Thank you to all the scientists we spoke to for this episode including, Dr. Sarah Ackroyd, Dr. Sarah Collins, Professor Adam Taylor, and Dr. Cathy Flood. Special thanks to Joseph Lavelle Wilson and the Zukerman family.  Science Vs is a Spotify Studios Original. Listen for free on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Follow us and tap the bell for episode notifications.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’ve all been there. Feeling stuck with a problem because no one in our life can relate. Or because the one person we need to talk to … won’t. Or can’t. Enter Yowei Shaw and the show Proxy. Proxy is built on a simple idea: no one is ever as alone with their problem as they think. So Yowei brings in a proxy, a perfect stranger, to help her guests work through their dilemma. Today we’re sharing the case of Brian, a journalist whose mother-in-law has Alzheimer's. Even though Brian knows she can’t help misremembering things, he can’t stop losing his patience with her, and with himself.  This episode was mixed for Science Vs by Bobby Lord. – Find Proxy here. Resources from Claudia on dementia caregiving, caregiving in general, and acceptance and commitment therapy (ACT): On understanding dementia Dementia Reimagined: Building a life of joy and dignity from beginning to end by Tia Powell (and this accompanying Fresh Air episode) On preventing/addressing emotional or behavioral changes associated with dementia When a Family Member Has Dementia: Steps to Becoming a Resilient Caregiver by Susan M. McCurry On acceptance and commitment therapy (not specifically related to caregiving) Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life The New Acceptance and Commitment Therapy by Steven C. Hayes The Happiness Trap: How to Stop Struggling and Start Living by Russ Harris Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Forget the questionable relationship advice from internet influencers. Today, we’re diving into the science of lasting love, fighting, and "red flags” to find out what really matters for a healthy relationship. We’ll find out what it means to fight well with your partner. And we’ll also look at the signs that a relationship might become dangerous or abusive. For all this, we speak with Professor Ben Karney, Dr. Megan Haselschwerdt, Dr. Elizabeth McLindon and Matt Brown. U.S. National Domestic Violence Hotline: 800.799.7233 or www.thehotline.org Find international resources and more at spotify.com/resources Find our transcript here: https://bit.ly/ScienceVsIsYourRelationshipOK  In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Influencers love giving advice (02:36) How to have a ‘healthy fight’  (09:44) If you fight badly, will you get divorced?  (13:55) What are ‘red flags’?  (21:01) Red flags you should watch for (28:23) Approaches to try to change abusive partners (34:00) Why do people try to control their partners?  (37:57) Can an abusive partner change?  This episode was produced by Wendy Zukerman, with help from Michelle Dang, Meryl Horn, Rose Rimler, and Ekedi Fausther-Keeys. We’re edited by Blythe Terrell. Fact checking by Diane Kelly. Mix and sound design by Bobby Lord. Music written by Emma Munger, So Wylie, Peter Leonard, Bumi Hidaka and Bobby Lord. Thanks to our consultants Maya Serelis and Jess Hill. A special thanks to the researchers and folks working in the space of domestic violence that we spoke to including, Dr Áine Travers, Claire Marshall, Professor Sharon Dawe, Professor Kelsey Hegarty, Dr Franscesca Righetti, Dr Andrea Meltzer, Professor Amy Rauer, and Dr Amie Zarling. A big thanks to Joseph Lavelle Wilson and the Zukerman family.  Science Vs is a Spotify Studios Original. Listen for free on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Follow us and tap the bell for episode notifications.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Federal agents have descended on Minneapolis in the U.S., and things have gotten chaotic — and deadly. The Trump administration says the agents are there to enforce immigration law, but officers have shot three people so far, killing two, and are using tear gas and smoke on protesters. So today, we’re looking at the potential health impacts of tear gas. We’ll talk about what we do — and don’t — know about potential long-term effects of this stuff. And we’re also looking into research on the mental health effects of immigration raids. We speak to Dr. Jennifer Brown, Dr. Carlee Toddes, and Dr. William Lopez. This episode does mention mental health issues. Find resources here: spotify.com/resources  For more on William Lopez’s research on ICE raids, check out his new book, Raiding the Heartland https://www.press.jhu.edu/books/title/53706/raiding-heartland?srsltid=AfmBOoperKoqv48ZYzaHfQ87nM2xI3QiAbI7lo2wLqt5BykNo-47cHxS Find our transcript here: https://bit.ly/3MbC1Py Transcripción en español: https://bit.ly/4cm5b9i In this episode, we cover: (00:00) What’s going on in Minneapolis? (05:40) Tear gas is banned in war  (08:34) What tear gas does to the body (16:44) The possible long-term effects of tear gas (22:44) Can you protect yourself from tear gas? (24:36) How immigration raids affect people’s health (34:10) Do ICE raids make communities safer? This episode was produced by Blythe Terrell, Meryl Horn, Michelle Dang, Ekedi Fausther-Keeys and Rose Rimler. Wendy Zukerman is our executive producer. We’re edited by Blythe Terrell. Fact checking by Michelle Dang and Ekedi Fausther-Keeys. Mix and sound design by Bobby Lord. Music written by Bobby Lord, Bumi Hidaka, So Wylie, Emma Munger and Peter Leonard.   Special thanks to all the Minnesotans who took the time to speak to us about what’s going on there, including photographer Matt Gundrum. Thanks also to the other researchers we spoke to, including Dr. Margot Moinester, Professor Joanna Dreby. Thanks to Paul Schreiber, Nimra Azmi, Whitney Potter and Jack Weinstein. Science Vs is a Spotify Studios Original. Listen for free on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Follow us and tap the bell for episode notifications. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

There's claims out there that all kinds of things can make us happy in life, from making money to having kids to buying your dream home. But what actually works?? What does it take to have a happy life??  Professor Bob Waldinger is a psychiatrist at Harvard who has spent more than two decades as the director of this amazing study. It has tracked hundreds of people for decades and is the world's longest scientific study into happiness. So we're gonna find out what a lot of us get wrong in searching for the good life. Where we should be putting our time and attention. And we'll get this huge insight into how we can all be happier — and healthier. Find our transcript here: https://bit.ly/ScienceVsHappiness In this episode, we cover: (00:00) What makes us happy? (01:48) The world's longest study into happiness  (07:25) The biggest finding of the study (13:18) How do you build good relationships? (18:26) How did Bob get happier?? (21:53) How childhood adversity changes us (24:12) Does having kids make you happy?  (25:22) Does making money make us happy?  (27:55) The Happiest Person (29:40) Looking back on our lives Don't forget to text a friend you haven't seen in a while! Let us know what they say. Send us a photo if you end up catching up!! You can email us at [email protected] or tag us in an instagram post — we're at @science_vs. And come say hello to Wendy on tiktok, I'm @wendyzukerman This episode was produced by Wendy Zukerman, with help from Ekedi Fausther-Keeys, Rose Rimler, Meryl Horn, and Michelle Dang. We’re edited by Blythe Terrell. Fact checking help by Ekedi Fauster-Keeys. Mix and sound design by Bobby Lord. Music written by Bobby Lord, Bumi Hidaka, So Wiley, Emma Munger and Peter Leonard. An extra thanks to the Zukerman Family and Joseph Lavelle Wilson. Science Vs is a Spotify Studios Original. Listen for free on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Follow us and tap the bell for episode notifications. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The U.S. just made a big change to its vaccine recommendations, cutting back on the number of shots it will routinely recommend for kids. The government says it wants to "better align" with countries like Denmark. But is following Denmark’s lead a fairy tale come true — or a nightmare in slow motion? Plus, we find out what this new schedule could mean for kids’ vaccines in the U.S. We hear from Professor Jens Lundgren and pediatrician and researcher David Higgins. Find our transcript here: https://bit.ly/ScienceVsVaccineSchedules  In this episode, we cover: (00:00) The growing turmoil around vaccines in the U.S. (02:20) Why did the CDC change its vaccine recommendations? (07:29) Vaccines, the Danish way (16:20) Should the U.S. copy Denmark’s vaccine schedule? (20:22) How bad is this? (22:03) RSV: A case study in confusion (28:27) What should parents do now? This episode was produced by Blythe Terrell and Meryl Horn with help from Rose Rimler, Michelle Dang and Ekedi Fausther-Keeys. We’re edited by Blythe Terrell. Additional research help from Erica Akiko Howard. Our executive producer is Wendy Zukerman. Mix and sound design by Bobby Lord. Music written by Emma Munger, So Wylie, Peter Leonard, Bumi Hidaka and Bobby Lord. Thanks very much to the Unbiased Science network, who connected us with David Higgins. They’ve been doing some amazing work on trying to explain what’s going on with the U.S. and vaccines. Unbiased Science — check out their podcast and their socials. Thanks very much to all the scientists we spoke to and emailed with about these changes. And special thanks to Bernadette Sciandra and Laurence Horn.  Science Vs is a Spotify Studios Original. Listen for free on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Follow us and tap the bell for episode notifications.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

AI tools like ChatGPT have taken the world by storm, with tons of people saying they use them regularly. This is especially true for students, many of whom say they use AI to get their schoolwork done. And this is freaking some of us out — we're hearing that jumping on the AI train could be a terrible idea, partly because of claims that these tools could be bad for our brains. So — are we outsourcing too much of our thinking to the bots?? Will our brains turn to mush? Or can we use AI to boost our brainpower? To find out, we talk to Dr. Shiri Melumad, expert in the psychology of technology, and Dr. Aaron French, expert in information systems. Find our transcript here: https://bit.ly/ScienceVsAIStupid  In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Is AI ruining or boosting our brains? (02:45) How often are LLMs like ChatGPT wrong? (05:01) Do LLMs mess with our ability to learn? (19:26) Does using AI make us more productive? (24:33) Another example of a technology that freaked a bunch of people out (27:40) Can using AI help us learn? This episode was produced by Meryl Horn with help from Ekedi Fausther-Keeys, Michelle Dang, and Rose Rimler. We’re edited by Blythe Terrell. Our executive producer is Wendy Zukerman. Fact checking by Erica Akiko Howard. Mix and sound design by Bobby Lord. Music written by Emma Munger, So Wylie, Peter Leonard, Bumi Hidaka and Bobby Lord. Thanks to all the researchers we spoke with including Daniela Fernandes, Dr. Marcin Romanczyk, Professor Michael Henderson, Dr. Tim Zindulka, and Professor Vitomir Kovanovicent. Special thanks also to Sebastian Peleato, Chris Suter, Elise, Dylan, Jack Weinstein and Hunter. Science Vs is a Spotify Studios Original. Listen for free on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Follow us and tap the bell for episode notifications.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Influencers are out in full force, telling us how we can “manifest” anything we want using only the power of our thoughts. Want that dream car, dream boyfriend, or dream house? Act as if you already have it, and the universe will respond. And we know our thoughts can be powerful … so, could this be legit? We go on the hunt for a manifestation method that has the science stamp of approval. We talk to psychologists Prof. Laura King and Prof. Gabriele Oettingen.  Find our transcript here:  https://bit.ly/ScienceVsManifestation Chapters: (00:00) The Promise of Manifesting (04:54) The Best Possible Self Exercise (09:40) Wendy and Rose Give it a Go (12:23) The Fantasy Fiasco (17:19) How To Get Your Dream Life (science approved!) (20:44) Just a Bit of Magic Check out Gabriele’s science-backed manifesting method here: https://woopmylife.org/en/science This episode was produced by Rose Rimler, with help from Wendy Zukerman, Ekedi Fausther-Keeys, Michelle Dang, and Meryl Horn. We’re edited by Blythe Terrell. Fact checking by Diane Kelly. Mix and sound design by Bobby Lord. Music written by Emma Munger, So Wylie, Peter Leonard, Bumi Hidaka and Bobby Lord. Thanks to all the researchers we reached out to, including Dr. Lucas Dixon. Special thanks also to Mark Johnson.  Science Vs is a Spotify Studios Original. Listen for free on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Follow us and tap the bell for episode notifications Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices