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My friend Vlada Bortnik — CEO of Marco Polo and host of the Heartful Wonders podcast — recently had me on her show, and she asked me a question I wasn't fully prepared for: What if the emotion you think is your heart is actually fear? It's a good one. Decisions rooted in shame or self-doubt can feel exactly like intuition. The difference, I've come to believe, is direction: whether you're moving toward something or away from discomfort. In this conversation, I get honest about what it actually looks like to follow your heart, including the parts that don't make the highlight reel. The self-doubt. The disappointment. The moments where you still don't believe you're enough, even after decades of building. We also get into Passionate Ambivalence: care deeply about what you're creating, run experiments, but don't tie your worth to whether they work out. Because disappointment is the most common thing that happens. And it doesn't mean you can't come out optimistic on the other side of crying your eyes out. This is a conversation about courage, honesty, and what it looks like to keep showing up after things don't go the way you hoped. Originally published on Vlada's podcast, Heartful Wonders.

In this inspiring episode, Sue sits down with renowned architect EJ Meade of Arch11 to explore the journey of building a meaningful career, the power of authentic client relationships, and the courage it takes to be selective about your work. EJ shares stories from his 30+ years in architecture, the lessons learned from both awards and challenges, and his vision for the next chapter. Whether you’re a creative, entrepreneur, or simply curious about the intersection of art and business, this conversation is packed with wisdom and heart. We talk about: The accidental beginnings and evolution of Arc 11  Why genuine relationships are the foundation of great architecture  Pricing, profitability, and the myth of the “lone genius”  How awards and recognition shape (or not) a career  EJ’s “big hairy audacious goals” for the future  The art of challenging clients—and being challenged in return 🏡 Explore the beauty and sense of place in Arch11’s architecture 📓 See for yourself what the buzz is about. EJ and Arch11 were featured in the recent issue of Modern in Denver.  🎧 Listen now for a masterclass in authentic creativity and business! 💡 Subscribe to HeySue for more conversations with inspiring creators.   🌟 Share this episode with a friend who loves design, entrepreneurship, or creative sales!   💬 Watch the full video on the HeySue YouTube channel.

In this episode, Sue talks with Amit Shah, Chief Operating Officer of Virta Health, to explore how passionate leadership and evidence-based nutrition can transform metabolic health. Amit shares about Virta’s goal of reversing diabetes and obesity by centering its core values—putting people first and trusting evidence-based science—across every team at the company. The ways that this passion and commitment show up in how Shah and the company treat individuals exemplifies what Sue calls “walking around town marketing,” a key piece of Passionate Ambivalence.  This  one-on-one shares how Virta is revolutionizing diabetes and obesity treatment by putting people first and challenging traditional medical approaches. We talk about: How food can be medicine and reverse chronic health conditionsBuilding followership through authentic passion and personal commitmentThe power of personalized nutrition in transforming a person’s health journeyScaling a mission-driven healthcare solution that genuinely changes livesWhether you're an entrepreneur, healthcare professional, or someone interested in innovative approaches to wellness, Amit's insights will reshape your understanding of what it means to be a mission-driven business. ✨ Listen now to hear a groundbreaking approach to the business of healthcare and healing. 💡 Explore Virta Health at virtahealth.com. If you loved this conversation, leave a review and buy my new book Never Ask for the Sale: Supercharge Your Business with the Power of Passionate Ambivalence at heysue.com/book.

Sue Heilbronner calls Leah Pearlman her “best friend.” Leah calls Sue “one of her best friends.” For some time, that bummed Sue out, but she got over it. For the last 15 years, all of Sue’s best decisions have been influenced by Leah’s wisdom, and the book dedication in Sue’s new book reflects that gratitude. In this episode of the HeySue podcast, Sue and Leah peel back the layers of Sue's mindset around the launch of her upcoming book, exploring the raw journey of writing Never Ask for the Sale: Supercharge Your Business with the Power of Passionate Ambivalence. From the vulnerable moments of putting her heart on the page to her conviction around the nuanced art of selling without selling, Sue reveals the deeply personal stories that shape her approach to business, coaching, and life. Join us as we explore: The unexpected emotional landscape of writing a business bookHow passionate ambivalence transforms selling from a transaction to a connectionThe power of aligning your work with your greatest giftsWhy vulnerability is the secret sauce of authentic business growth✨ Listen now to reimagine what selling can truly mean for you. 🦋 Learn more about Leah's work at welcomingway.com 📖 Order Never Ask for the Sale at https://heysue.com/book  ❤️ If this conversation sparked something in you, leave a review and share it with someone who is looking for some inspiration.

In this episode, Sue dives deep with Ian MacGregor, co-founder and CEO of Skratch Labs, to explore a radical approach to building a business that refuses to compromise its values for market share. From pro cycling to creating a revolutionary sports nutrition brand, Ian shares how staying committed to the company’s core customer can be the most powerful growth strategy. We explore: The radical decision to prioritize customer experience over rapid expansionHow a warehouse in Boulder became a testament to company cultureThe art of selling without selling - creating connections that matter more than transactionsWhy saying "no" to certain opportunities can be a brand's greatest strengthA refreshingly honest look at building a business that serves its community first, profits second📖 During the chat, Sue referenced the book, How to Tell a Story: The Essential Guide to Memorable Storytelling from The Moth, which has taught her to be more curious about other people’s stories. ✨ Listen now to fuel your vision of how to grow. 💡 Discover Skratch Labs at https://www.skratchlabs.com/ ❤️ If your heart rate got revved up by this conversation, leave a review and preorder my new book Never Ask for the Sale at heysue.com/book.

Join Sue Heilbronner as she sits down with master metalworker and jewelry designer Todd Reed to explore a revolutionary approach to selling that transcends transactions. Todd shares how he built a brand rooted in creativity, emotional connection, and authentic design.  We talk about: Why emotional needs matter more than price points in creating meaningful customer relationshipsHow downsizing his company helped him reconnect with his core creative values and his personal joyThe power of designing artful objects that tell profound and often deeply personal stories His journey of building a heritage brand that can outlive himIf you yearn for a more soulful approach to business, consider this episode personally designed for you. Todd’s story will inspire you and meaningfully shift how you think about selling and your own version of “art.” ✨ Listen now to hear a profoundly authentic approach to craftsmanship and commerce. 💡 Explore Todd's extraordinary work at https://toddreed.com/ If you loved this conversation, leave a review, share it, or write a review on Apple podcasts.  If you want to hear more about Sue’s selling philosophy of passionate ambivalence, order her new book Never Ask For The Sale at https://heysue.com/book.

In this episode, Sue sits down with Ellen Kindelsperger – sports chiropractor, strength coach, and founder of ChiroLab in Boulder – to talk about selling with a focus on customer satisfaction, loyalty, and scale.  Ellen shares how she’s built a thriving practice without pushing packages or locking people into long-term commitments. Instead, she leads with generosity, grounded confidence, and what I call passionate ambivalence (from my new book Never Ask for the Sale). We talk about: Why creating genuine community feeds her business and her soulHow letting go of bespoke training programs unlocked scale and more effective service at lower price pointsThe difference between transactional selling and building lifelong loyaltyHer challenge (and insight) in trying to expand her practice by hiring othersWhether you’re a solopreneur, a coach, or someone rethinking how to grow with integrity, Ellen’s story will shift your perspective on business building. ✨ Listen now to hear a radically authentic approach to selling, service, and living your values. 💡 Learn more about Ellen at chirolab.com. If you loved this conversation, leave a review and order my new book Never Ask For The Sale at heysue.com/book.

Welcome to the first episode of a special new focus for the HeySue Podcast: the Never Ask for the Sale Series. These new episodes are inspired by the September 2025 launch of Sue Heilbronner’s newest book, Never Ask for the Sale: Supercharge Your Business with the Power of Passionate Ambivalence. Never Ask is based on the philosophy or sales technique Sue calls “passionate ambivalence,” the freedom to be as passionate as you are about a possible sale and equally unattached to whether you close any specific business. Sue argues in Never Ask that executing on this mindset will propel the success of solopreneurs, startup founders, service providers, company account executives, and anyone who is selling or influencing in a context that depends primarily on themself. The "Never Ask" series will focus on sellers, founders and CEOs Sue believes exhibit features of passionate ambivalence in their approach to selling and growing their companies. Kevin Brown left corporate America and cofounded (with Keah Kalantari) a sports chalk company called Friction Labs a decade ago. There is a lot of talk these days about category creation. Friction Labs didn’t create the category of chalk for, say, rock climbing, but it did create the notion that professional and amateur climbers alike could have better climbing chalk. Friction Labs took a generic category and made it differentiated through pure innovation in both the product, branding, and positioning. In the pod, Kevin talks about how he started this journey, by offering a risk-free way for influential climbers to literally get their hands on Friction Labs chalk. It worked. Climbers loved the product, and sponsored athletes quickly led to a major full-chain rollout of the product line at REI followed by a number of global retailers. A key to the company’s growth is Kevin’s full alignment between this product category and his love of climbing (Kevin is a serious climber and bouldering club owner). He is as passionate an entrepreneur as I’ve ever met. His ambivalence shows up in the money-back guarantee he has used since Day 1. He has told climbers, gymnasts, golfers, tennis players, and major retailers that if they don’t like the product, or if the product doesn’t sell, he will offer a full no-questions-asked refund. He’s had to do this almost not at all. If you love sports. If you love sweating outside. If you love from-the-heart selling, you’ll love this episode, here and on YouTube. You can order Never Ask for the Sale at www.heysue.com/book. Get chalked for your next sweaty adventure at www.frictionlabs.com. You can see this and future episodes of the HeySue podcast on YouTube at www.youtube.com/sueheilbronner.

Sarah Climenhaga is a writer and facilitator of Byron Katy’s The Work. She is also a self-professed attention hog who loves to talk! But in this live coaching session with Sue and Leah, she brings her secret worry: “Does anyone actually care about what I have to say?” In this episode of the HeySue podcast, Leah and Sue inquire about the two competing voices in Sarah’s mind, the one who loves to talk and the one who thinks Sarah takes up too much space. This internal contradiction is likely familiar to anyone who is a creator – it certainly resonates for Leah and Sue. What competing messages do you experience? You can learn more about Sarah’s work at https://sarahclimenhaga.ca. And those nifty boots Leah mentioned at the top of the episode? Those are available here.

Fernanda Bertrand is a business coach and the host of her own podcast. She came to the session with Sue and Leah wanting to better understand the “darker side” of her – a judgmental voice – that keeps intruding on her thoughts. She admits that she has been judging herself and others her whole life... and she judges herself for that!  In this live coaching episode of the HeySue podcast, Sue and Leah lead Fernanda to consider what those judgmental thoughts mean, for her sense of self-worth, as a type of gift, and as an internal radio station of judginess. As you listen, hear the openness in Fernanda and hear how your own internal patterns are echoed. We invite you to tune in.  You can learn more about personas in Sue’s new co-authored book, Leader Coach: Scaling Conscious Leadership at Work. If you want to go deeper on Leah’s suggestion that your thoughts are not your fault, she recorded a teaching inspired by the session with Sue and Fernanda. You can hear more from Fernanda on her podcast, The Higher Self Project.

Nick Smith is the CEO and Co-Founder of Hauska, which uses AI to make home remodeling easier. But the real challenge in his life right now is how to raise a house full of teenage girls. Sue and Leah dive into what that responsibility means to Nick, as well as his core belief that “you either pay now and play later, or you play now and pay later.” The session investigates how to use anxiety as an invitation to get curious about your priorities. For Nick, that means leaning into what he knows is most important to him and discovering his own tricks for spending more time doing things he loves with the people he loves. If you find yourself staring at a full calendar wondering what you need to do to be happier, we recommend this piece by Sue on being “full” and this meditation by Leah on the tension between doing and rest. If you are also a golfer, you may enjoy this post where Sue gets some timely coaching during one of her worst games ever.

Dominique Aubry-Morgan is a high-achiever who is on a quest for more ease. In this episode, Sue and Leah engage with Dominique about how her desire to find a new cadence is in tension with her ambitious nature. They dive into her familiar cycles around all the competing desires she has for her life. What would happen if she did a trust fall into life? At the heart of this episode is the issue of how to navigate — and eventually release — the complex emotions, diligence, and “doing” that often accompanies (and can forestall) learning and change. To dig into these ideas a bit more, you can read about Sue’s strategy for shifting core patterns and listen to Leah’s exploration on not knowing.

Rachel Pickett comes to this coaching conversation with Sue and Leah with a pretty common problem: figuring out how to get her organization to grow. Rachel is the Founder and Executive Director of The Thinking Project, which also makes her the first non-profit leader on the HeySue podcast. Her organization (and her passion) is focused on bringing Byron Katy’s The Work to children in educational settings. This conversation becomes an exploration of how love for something – an idea, a product, a cause – can be the key to unlocking growth. If you are not yet familiar with Byron Katy and The Work, you can visit thework.com. And if this is an entirely new tool to you, then this episode will certainly spark some curiosity!

Sue and Leah welcomed the first anonymous guest “Ryan” to the HeySue podcast! He kicked off the conversation by explaining that he is in the market for a coach who can help him get out of a funk.Sue and Leah invited Ryan to reflect on different parts of himself – from the achievement-oriented “higher self” to the cheese-loving slacker “Gary.” Ryan’s curiosity and self-reflection shine through in this conversation that spans creativity, self-worth, quantified-self journaling, and Miyazaki’s Fujimoto from Ponyo. This is a great listen for anyone (i.e. everyone) familiar with patterns of “productivity” and “laziness.” To go deeper, here is an exploration about how to allow yourself to rest. If you want to explore Ryan’s pop culture references, listen to some Sufjan Stevens or watch the 1983 movie Wind in the Willows.

David Secunda is a successful serial entrepreneur who has big ideas ranging from tech solutions for talent management at companies to what may be the best adventure summer camp for kids in the US. In this live coaching episode of the HeySue podcast, David opens his heart and mind, sharing the deep questions he wonders about in his leadership. He talks about a recurring worry that he is “too much.” The inquiry around that worry unlocks a conversation about wanting to be liked as a leader, the upper limits he encounters as a visionary, reacting to internal and external critiques, and a persona named “Tiny” who is trying to protect David.