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Dr. Kelley Mathews Seana Scott What is your purpose in God's story? Seana Scott joins Dr. Kelley Mathews to discuss what it means to become "faith-full" not "fear-full" as you discern your purpose and follow Jesus right where you are. Seana spent years confused about what a woman's purpose really is. Don't miss this conversation if you are seeking to follow God! This episode is also available on video. Recommended resources Seana's substack Well Soul Life The ONE Story Bible study. (This study is currently being revised to make it shorter and simpler. It should be complete by Nov. 1. If you are interested in a copy, contact us. As soon as it is available, we will email you.) This episode is available on video as well. Timestamps: 00:21 Introductions 02:18 What in your life story caused you to develop your ministry of a well-soul life? 04:31 What is the story of God, the meta-narrative? 08:17 Defining a woman's purpose 11:05 What does it mean to be God's image? 12:49 Theology of disability 15:25 Is God's purpose different for men and women? 19:31 Encouragement for women to move into her purpose 23:04 Resources 24:42 Final words TranscriptKelley >> Welcome to Beyond Ordinary Women's Ministry. I am Kelley Mathews, your host. And today I have with you a friend of mine, Seana Scott. Seana is—I’m going to go back to when we met several years back. But before I do that, let me give you her bio and why we have her with us today. Seana is an author, a speaker, and she is the founder of Well Soul Life, which is a ministry dedicated to journeying with others to know God's Word, to walk with God, to live with purpose. She is a graduate of Dallas Theological Seminary, and she writes for a lot of Christian publications. She has a devotional Bible study that is published or will be published in fall of 2026, depending on when you hear this podcast. And when she's not in her chair studying and writing, she is enjoying time with her kids and her husband, and we will give you all the information on how to connect with Seana in our show notes. So welcome Seana. Thanks for being here. Seana >> Thank you. I am so excited to be here. I have long appreciated the work that you ladies are doing. Kelley >> Well, you really fit well within this and the work you've been doing. When we met, which was 2018. Okay, so however many years ago that was we were at a writing festival and you were part of a class. I think I was probably auditing or I was just along for the ride because I had long graduated. Maybe I was the T.A. I don't remember exactly. But you were really getting going in your writing career, and we spent some time getting to know each other and working on one of your articles. And so that was just the beginning of a great friendship. And you have really continued strong in that ministry, and it's been fun to watch. So yeah. Yeah, yeah. So you have this overriding message of, well-soul life. So give us some background of what is your ministry, why that title and what are you doing? Seana >> Absolutely. So really, I think ministry comes from our story, right? The things God calls us to comes from the things he's brought us through. And in my story, if I had days to tell it, I would. But in my story, there's been different seasons where I struggled in my sense of wholeness because I really didn't have sound theology. I really didn't understand who God is. And no one ever taught me how to read the Word. So one of my passions is helping the Bible-curious to become Bible-confident. So that's the know God's Word part. And then walk with God. No one ever taught me spiritual practices, and the more I learned spiritual practices, the more I experienced that wholeness that shalom the Bible says we can find in the Lord. And so I am passionate about helping others. If they don't know spiritual practices to get started, or to take the next step in that intimate relationship with God.

Dr. Sandra Glahn Sharifa Stevens It may seem redundant to revisit women in the Bible, but as new information has come to light, we now know that some of what we’ve heard (and perhaps even taught ourselves) isn’t accurate. Dr. Sandra Glahn of Dallas Seminary provides five reasons for us to do the work of once again studying the stories and references to these women. Don't miss this conversation hosted by BOW Ministry Team Member Sharifa Stevens. Let's revisit women in the Bible! Recommended resources A Woman’s Place is in the Story: Seeing Women in the Biblical Narrative Visual Museum of Women in Christianity The Early Church Office of Widow, Trinity Evangelical Divinity School (TEDS) article by Dr. Glahn Ordination Prayer of the Widows BOW's Church Issues This episode is available on video as well. Timestamps: 00:33 Introductions 01:33 Why relook at women of the Bible? 02:59 Reason 1: Because of the texts in the Scripture 08:27 Reason 2: Because of what we see historically 17:10 Reason 3: Because we can now access more with the internet 20:09 Reason 4: Because we know more about social history 26:17 Reason 5: Because of the ancient inscriptions 40:37 Other Resources   TranscriptSharifa >> Hello everyone, and welcome to Beyond Ordinary Women. I am one of your hosts, Sharifa Stephens, and today I have the pleasure of speaking to Dr. Sandra Glahn. Doctor, and I love saying that. Dr. Glahn >> Because you know me long before I was doctor. Sharifa >> Yes, you did. Dr. Sandra Glahn is a journalist and also the author, coauthor or editor of more than 20 books, including the book A Woman's Place is in the Story: Seeing Women in the Biblical Narrative. Dr. Glahn is a seminary professor, and her most recent endeavor is the Visual Museum of Women in Christianity. Welcome, Dr. Glahn Dr. Glahn >> Thank you. Always great to see you. Sharifa >> Always great to see you as well. Today we're going to look at the always relevant topic of women in the Bible. We're going to be talking about reasons to take a fresh look at women in the Bible. And that's a hermeneutical question. It's a literary question. It's an opportunity to consider sources of interpretation. Right? Dr. Glahn >> Yeah. Sharifa >> So I mean, fire way. I would like to learn. Dr. Glahn >> Yeah. When we're talking women of the Bible, you know, specifically, this conversation isn't just the Abigails and the Eves, but it’s—what about those hard verses about head coverings and women's silence? And one of the things I've noticed as I talk on this subject, that even people that are really committed to women's flourishing in the church and they're using their gifts, sometimes they'll have doubts about why are we relooking at this? Are we changing history or are we pushing back, pushing back against 2000 years of tradition and history? And the answer to that is no. And how do we know that is no. And I got five reasons for us to reconsider. Sharifa >> Five? Dr. Glahn >> Five. You know, it's convenient that it works out that way, you know. But the first one is actual textual reasons. We have reasons to relook at the text, partly because think back with me of when women really started entering the academy in recent history. We've had women Bible translators for a really long time. But women's eyes on the texts are influencing translation in a good way. And I'll start maybe with a different kind of example on that is about ten years ago, some of my African scholar friends contributed to the African Study Bible. Well, why do we need that? Well, because if you've lived in some of those places, some of the place names are familiar to you, or in one case, somebody had lived in a culture that really didn't have much paper. It was really rural and really remote. And so when they came to the book of Ruth and there's an exchange of a shoe, it made perfect sense to them. They would point to a stack of rocks and go,

Ann McKinley Kelly Arabie Dementia is a difficult illness, and so we need to think about what the church and dementia looks like. Jesus called us to love the least of these, just as he did. Today millions of people with dementia need our love in tangible ways. Ann McKinley provides understanding, encouragement and practical ideas in this conversation with Kelly Arabie of Beyond Ordinary Women Ministries. If you missed it, our first conversation with Ann, "Learning about Dementia" is available on the BOW Podcast or on video. This episode is available on video as well. Recommended resources DFDallas.org DFAmerica.org Timestamps: 00:21 Introductions 01:01 What does it mean to be a dementia-friendly faith community? 02:58 How does dementia challenge our understanding of faith and personhood? 04:28 What are the growth edges for churches? 08:29 How can a church shift its mindset to shift out mindset about how God values people? 11:26 How can the church services and programs reach those with dementia? 14:46 What gives you hope for the future of dementia-friendly churches? 19:15 The promise that no one walks alone 21:19 Resources TranscriptKelly >> Welcome everyone to the Beyond Ordinary Women Podcast. My name is Kelly Arabie and today we are back with Ann McKinley talking about dementia and the church. If you missed our first podcast, it was such a great conversation on learning about dementia, and I encourage you to go find that on our website. But today we're specifically talking about dementia and faith communities. Ann McKinley works with Juliette Fowler Communities in East Dallas, leading their citywide initiative, Dementia Friendly Dallas, which is committed to empowering those affected by dementia. Ann, what does it mean to be a dementia friendly faith community? Ann >> Great question. Most people think about grants or worship services or programs or, you know, special signage and all those things are very important when we want to engage people in our churches who are living with dementia. And those things matter. But they're not the total picture. To me, a dementia friendly faith community is one where people living with dementia and of course, those that are caring for them, their care partners, they know that they are seen, they’re valued and they’re loved. A dementia-friendly faith community doesn't define a person by their diagnoses. They are still defined by who they are—and that is that their beloved child of God. That doesn't change. So when we are working to create a dementia-friendly faith community, we're trying to create a culture of belonging. It means that people don't have to wonder if they're going to be welcomed or accepted, or that when their loved one repeats a question or is disruptive during a service that their condition worsens, they know that they don't have to apologize or stay home. They're not going to worry about how other people might respond. Dementia-friendly faith communities also recognize that that person still has gifts to share and offer, and they will actually teach us more about our own faith and our own presence and our own love. So our goal is not to care for people with dementia. Our role is to be in community with them. Kelly >> Love that. I love that. So how does dementia challenge our understanding of faith and personhood? Ann >> One of our five key messages of dementia friend, is that a person is more than their dementia. And that's important for us to rethink our assumptions about people and our assumptions about what a person with dementia is, does, and what they're able to do. We often equate faith with what we know, what we remember. So when you're thinking about a person who may not remember the words or how to pray out loud or some of those things, or to be able to articulate the passages that we're reading or the liturgy in the church, you know, that could look like a disruption.

Ann McKinley Kelly Arabie Learning about dementia helps us understand and love well those who have it. Ann McKinley joins BOW Team Member Kelly Arabie to aid us in being the friends, family and neighbors those affected by this diease need in order to show them the love of God. For families, learning about dementia is crucial. For friends, it helps us treat others as we want to be treated if we eveh have to deal with dementia ourselves. Resources DFDallas.org DFAmerica.org This episode is also available on video. Timestamps: 00:21 Meeting Ann and her heart for dementia education 02:19 What is dementia? 04:11 Signs and symptoms of Alzheimer's 05:38 How should a family respond? 08:45 How does someone with dementia thrive? 13:45 What challenges do the families face? 15:38 How can we raise awareness? 19:55 Resources TranscriptKelly >> Welcome everyone to the Beyond Ordinary Women Podcast. I'm Kelly Arabie and today we are talking with Ann McKinley on Learning About Dementia. Ann works with the Juliet Fowler Communities in East Dallas, leading their citywide initiative, Dementia Friendly Dallas, committed to empowering those affected by dementia. Ann, welcome. So glad to have you here. Ann >> Thank you so much, Kelly. Kelly >> Tell us, how did you find yourself in this arena for ministry? Ann >> Well, as you said, I work for Juliet Fowler. I've been in the senior living community for over 20 years. And so of course I have professional experiences with helping families. But it was through my own personal experiences that I found the Dementia Friendly Initiative. I'm a daughter of dementia. Both of my parents had dementia and that did not preclude me. My professional experiences did not preclude me from being that daughter who was googling at night and looking for answers and responses. We in our family really thought we had all our ducks in a row. My husband's an attorney. I have a sister who's a doctor, another sister who's a nurse married to a doctor. So and I'm in the senior living business. We thought we were prepared and had it all already. But dementia doesn't follow your plan. And so I found Dementia Friendly America and recognized that that was something that could be helpful to our community. It made me realize that there were gaps in understanding and gaps in services that existed. And I felt like at some point in time, that was something that I wanted Juliet Fowler to get behind. And so within a short time they did. And here we are. Kelly >> So let's talk a little bit, say more about the gaps in understanding. Could you help us understand a little bit what is dementia? Ann >> Yes. Well dementia is a term. It's an umbrella term that describes—not the diseases. It's not the disease itself, but it's an array of symptoms. The symptoms of cognitive function. So it's not just memory loss. People think immediately of memory loss. But it's not just memory loss. It can also be vision. It's communication. It's mobility. It's depth perception. It's a lot of different things that are all managed by the brain. And so when a dementia impacts your brain, all of those functions are impacted as well eventually. Kelly >> So say more maybe about the symptoms of dementia. Those are some broad. Ann >> They are broad and there's actually many medical conditions that can cause dementia. And so the first thing a person really should do is we have to be very honest and upfront with our own physician. When we start recognizing a difference in our own self, we need to have those conversations because there are reversible medical conditions that can create and can mimic dementia. So first you got to know what you're dealing with. Alzheimer's is the most prevalent of the dementias. It's actually they estimate 60 to 80% of your dementia falls in under the Alzheimer's bracket. But some of the other dementias are frontotemporal, vascular dementia,

Rebecca Carrell Many evangelical churches have failed to give their congregants permission to grieve for their friends and loved ones who have passed away. They seem unaware of how that has hurt the spiritual and mental health of many of them. In this episode Rebecca Carrell suggests various ways that the church and even the larger American culture have done this. In her conversation with Dr. Kay Daigle, she uses scriptures to explain the biblical pattern which provides permission to grieve for all of us who don't know how to grieve well. Kay Daigle Recommended resources Learning to Lament Bible study BOW’s two-part video/podcast series on Lament with Dr. Nika Spaulding: 1- Understanding Lament and 2- Practicing Lament. Lamenting Current Events Podcast or Video with Jodie Niznik This episode is available on video as well. Timestamps: 00:21 Introductions 01:47 How are we dealing with grief overall in our Western culture? 06:56 It feels like somehow tears are bad. 09:44 What does the Bible teach us to do?16:27 Saying and doing the wrong thing with those who grieve 21:15 Viewing grief as getting in the way of happiness 22:48 Biblical pattern for dealing with grief 30:21 What would you tell someone whose spouse told them not to grieve? 32:29 Closing thoughts and resources TranscriptKay >> Hi I'm Kay Daigle of Beyond Ordinary Women Ministries. Welcome to this episode of our podcast. We are delighted today to welcome Rebecca Carrell back. Rebecca, we're so glad that you're here with us. Rebecca >> Thank you for having me. It's always such a pleasure to join you. Kay >> Oh, we love it when you come. And I'm very excited about this topic that we're going to talk about. But let me tell everybody just a little bit about you. And they can find the rest on our website if they want more information. She does have a Bachelor of Arts degree in Christian Education from Dallas Seminary, just like I do, and she is working there presently on her doctorate in education. And she is also mentoring and teaching at the seminary in Media Arts and Worship Department, as well as educational ministries and leadership department as well. You've got to be a busy person. Rebecca >> They like to keep me busy. Yeah. I'm really looking forward to post-doctoral life. Kay >> Yeah. And when will that be? When do you expect that to happen? Rebecca >> Oh, not anytime soon. I think about two years. I'm really hoping for two years. Kay >> Yeah, well, that sounds reasonable. Rebecca >> Yeah, yeah. Kay >> Well, today our topic is about grief. We are going to talk about “You have permission to grieve.” And when Rebecca suggested this is a topic, I was very excited because I believe that the way we deal with grief in today's church is not healthy for the most part, and it's widespread in our society. But it shouldn't happen in the church, is the way I feel about it. So, Rebecca, describe how we in today's Western culture deal with grief. Rebecca >> Well, Kay, about 10 or 12 years ago, probably maybe even 12 or 13 years ago, I attended a funeral. A friend of mine lost her brother and he had been in his early 40s, left behind two young children, a wife. And it was a tragedy, the way death is always a tragedy. But the circumstances surrounding his death were particularly heartbreaking. It was a drug overdose. He had struggled throughout his life and OD'd on drugs. I was at the funeral, snuck in just a little bit late, came straight from work, and as I sat down, the pastor crossed the stage, took to the podium and thundered in this loud voice that just filled up the room. He said, “We are not grieving. We are celebrating. Today we are celebrating because we know where he is.” And I knew what he was trying to do, and I knew that he was trying to encourage us, that because someone is in Christ, we don't grieve as though we have no hope but to take away the one place left in society where it's okay to a...

Dr. Kelley Mathews Sharifa Stevens If you, like most of us in this audience, are Protestant, be prepared for a treat as you listen to this conversation about women saints we should know. Dr. Kelley Mathews joins host Sharifa Stevens to discuss a number of women from the early church who were named saints because of their faith and actions. You'll come away excited and perhaps surprised as you hear about these godly women who played major roles in church history. They teach us great lessons from their love for the Lord, their tenacity and bold courage. Recommended resources BOW's resources on Studying and Teaching the Bible Hildegard: A playlist of her music and her biography The Passions of Perpetua and Felicity Augustine's sermon (#280) on Perpetua & Felicity Monica  We learn most of our content about her in Augustine's Confessions. Clare: Biography Read her "Rule" Brigid article This episode is available on video as well. Timestamps: 00:21 Introductions 02:37 The difference between knowing and venerating the saints 03:40 Perpetua and Felicity, martyrs 12:10 Monica, Augustine's mother 19:29 Brigid of Kildare 27:35 Hildegard of Bingen 34:18 Clare of Assisi 41:32 Other resources TranscriptSharifa >> Welcome to Beyond Ordinary Women. I'll be your host for today, Sharifa Stevens. And today our topic is going to be about women, saints that we all should know about. I'm really excited to dig into this topic, and we're going to have our expert Dr. Kelley Mathews, explain more to us about these women whom we should know. And I want to tell you about Kelley. I bet most of you know Dr. Kelley already. But let me tell you a little bit more, just in case. Kelley Mathews, Dr. Kelley Mathews, has ministered to the church through writing and editing for over 25 years. She's a coauthor of eight books, including 40 Questions About Women in Ministry. And also she's a freelance writer and editor. A former women's ministry director and Bible study teacher. Kelley has been married to John, a school administrator, for almost 29 years. They are parents to four active, mostly grown children. Kelley earned her Master of Theology from Dallas Theological Seminary and earned a Doctor of Ministry in New Testament from Houston Theological Seminary just in 2025. Welcome. Now, I can't call you Dr. Kelley. Why? Kelley >> You kind of overdid it there. That's all. Sharifa >> That's my job. It's my job to overdo it. Kelley >> Okay. Okay. I'll take it from you. Not from anybody else, though. No, it's so new. It's still very strange to hear it. So that's all. Sharifa >> You earned it. So I'm using it. Kelley >> I had a lot of fun in that program, so if I could still go back to class, I would. You know, I shouldn't say that too loudly around here. Sharifa >> Tuition-free class? Yeah. Kelley >> Yeah. No, it was a great program over in Houston. So and that's a lot of what we're going to cover today is what I studied there. So yeah. Sharifa >> Excellent. Well let's dive in. We're discussing women saints who we should know. But before we get into the specific saints, I just wanted to know, is knowing the saints the same as venerating or worshiping them? Kelley >> No. Absolutely not. This is basically history. And I was a history major for my bachelor's degree. And so coming full circle with this theological study, I naturally went to the history of the church. So New Testament kind of morphed also into the early church, those first few centuries of what was the church getting up to? And so knowing the people. I mean I would assume that a lot of Christians would recognize names like Augustine or Aquinas or maybe Saint Francis or Luther. We're just giving you female equivalents, basically. So, yes, just as there were fathers of the church, there were mothers of the church. Sharifa >> I dig it. Thank you. Okay, so let's get into specifics.

In this fun episode, BOW's guest, Dr. Nika Spaulding, shares how to create Bible teaching that sticks. In other words, how can you, as a Bible teacher, use tangible teaching tools to help your audience remember the biblical point of your teaching? Using the senses, physical teaching aids and play will enable you to enable others to better grasp and possibly clarify deeper biblical concepts. Recommended resources nikaspaulding.com BOW resource "Choosing Powerful Illustrations and Applications" on video or BOW podcast. Made to Stick by Chip & Dan Heath Nika's decks of cards: Gospel cards (coming soon) & Minor Prophets cards Bible Bricks This episode is also available on video. Timestamps: 00:20 Introductions 01:26 Why use teaching aids? 02:30 What teaching aids do we see in the Bible? 07:42 God's teaching aid: Ezekiel 09:18 Physical teaching aids 29:07 Learning through play 37:04 Other resources   TranscriptKay >> Hi. I'm Kay Daigle. Welcome to the Beyond Ordinary Women Podcast. Today, our guest is Nika Spaulding. Nika >> Hey, Kay. Kay >> Welcome, Nika. It's always so much fun to have you. And for those of you who know Nika, Nika has been on our podcast many times and so we’re always thrilled when she has time to be with us. She has a masters of Theology from Dallas Seminary. She actually went to Oklahoma University, but we don't really care about that part. And she has a Doctor of Ministry degree from Northern Seminary. So she's Dr. Spaulding. But I will not call her that. I will call you Nika. Nika >> Thank you. Kay >> Nika is really sort of our go to person for hard questions and about teaching the Bible. And so today we are talking about teaching the Bible, and we're going to talk about using teaching aids in teaching the Bible. So Nika why do teachers need to use teaching aids? Nika >> Yeah, it's such a good question. And I don't know, Kay, if you've had like your philosophy of teaching develop on this. I would say for me, this is a more recent addition to how I teach the Bible, and that is—when I was a young teacher, I kind of wanted to teach all these cool, nifty things that maybe people didn't know on their own. And now I really, really just want to make the Bible stick. I want when people leave for them to remember what we talked about, for them to be able to meditate on it. And what I have found is, you know, you probably think back to your experience when you were in elementary, junior high, high school, and you think about lessons that really stuck. There's a chance that your teacher used some sort of teaching, some sort of illustration, or maybe they brought something in the classroom or something like that. I have discovered just over the years that using teaching aids, whether it's props or engaging the senses or something like that, really allows us to help the Bible stick and that's really the goal with the teaching aids. Kay >> Great. So what are what are some of the things that you do see things in the Bible that are teaching aids? Nika >> Yeah, no, absolutely. I think that's what's interesting about it is when you think about even let's say you want to teach wisdom, you go to the Book of Proverbs so often what you see from the Proverbs is they take stuff you already know, stuff from nature, stuff that you've experienced in life. And then they say, “Hey, this, this is what that's like.” So a perfect example is you might talk about honey is how the Word of God is. It's so sweet, right? And if you've ever tasted honey, especially pre modern food where we have sugar at our fingertips at all times, you kind of think about how like, am I? I'm sure in my pantry right now I can eat sugar, but in the ancient days, having that ability, honey, was a really sweet experience. So to compare that to the Bible, we see how the Bible also uses teaching as Jesus does. This in his parables all the time.

Jodie Niznik Kay Daigle Frequent guest Jodie Niznik joins Dr. Kay Daigle to explain how using the biblical pattern of lament can help us process and work through what we see and read about world, national or local events. There is much to grieve beyond our personal sorrows, and lament enables us to go to God in a healthy and healing way. Recommended resources Learning to Lament, a BOW study to prepare for walking through any time of grief, anger, or pain. BOW's two-part video/podcast series on Lament with Dr. Nika Spaulding: 1- Understanding Lament and 2- Practicing Lament. Our two-part series on anger: Does my Anger Matter to God? and The Gift of Anger. This episode is available on video if you prefer. Timestamps: 00:20 Introductions 01:40 What is lament? 03:09 Our culture (and especially the church) struggles to deal with hard emotions 06:59 What should we be lamenting about current events? 12:17 How does lament differ from complaining? 13:51 Three movements in lament 15:59 Practically speaking, how should we proceed? 23:19 How do we choose what to lament? 35:21 Resources to teach us more about lament and help us lament for ourselves TranscriptKay >> Hi. I am Kay Daigle of Beyond Ordinary Women Ministries. Welcome to our podcast. In this episode we are going to talk about lament. We're going to talk about lamenting current events. And our special guest is Jodie Niznik. Welcome, Jodie. Thank you for being here with us again. Jodie >> It's great to be with you again, Kay. Thanks for having me. Kay >> Well, we always love having you. Jodie is an author, a teacher and a speaker, and we have had her discuss many things that you can find on our website by just searching for Jodie Niznik if you go to BeyondOrdinaryWomen.org. So she is—I‘ll tell you a little bit about her. She has an undergraduate degree in broadcast journalism from the University of Colorado, and she has a degree in Christian education from Dallas Seminary with an emphasis in Christian Education, the same one that I have with Women's Ministry emphasis. So we trust you, Jodie. We are so happy to have you talking with us about lament. Just tell us a little bit about what lament is. Jodie >> Yeah. I'm glad that we're talking about lament, especially in our current cultural climate that we're finding ourselves in. Lament really is first and foremost, prayer. It's a way to take the things that are really painful, the things that are confusing, the things that we’re grieving to God. And to be really honest with him about wrestling through those things. And the thing I love about lament is it's modeled for us in Scripture. A third of the Psalms are lament Psalms. I just heard somebody say, “Maybe God knew that about a third of our days were going to be tough, and we needed to know how to lament.” And I thought, oh, yeah, I think he's probably right. So lament is modeled for us in Scripture. It's a way for us to process things that are confusing and painful with God, but it always leads us back to God. And the purpose is to lead us back to trusting God, even when we don't understand what's happening. Kay >> Absolutely. And, you know, lament is found all over the Bible, not just in the Psalms. Jodie >> Yeah. Kay >> So, you know, if you wonder about lament, it is very biblical. It's not just an Old Testament thing. It is all over the Bible. And don't you feel like our culture is not very good at knowing how to deal with grief, sorrow, and these current events that we're talking about now, we don't know what to do with our emotions. Jodie >> Yeah. I mean, and I think, I, I don't think we know what to do with our emotions. And I think unfortunately, the Christian church in particular does not know what to do with our emotions, and we should be the ones that actually know the most what to do with them, because we do know that there is a bigger story happening. And we do know that even though things feel rea...

Dr. Jackie Roese In this final episode of BOW's three-part series on relationships between men and women as the church, guest Dr. Jackie Roese describes living out that calling as God's dream team. Instead of seeing danger involving women, what if we saw one another as brothers and sisters in Christ? You won't want to miss this final episode that provides a glimpse of what a thriving partnership between the sexes would look like, God's dream team, and how that would affect the purpose of the church. Kay Daigle Resources If you missed them, go back and to the previous episodes in the RelationSHIFT series: 1. It's More Than Being Biblical and 2. It's More Than a Sex Narrative. All episodes are available on video only with others that deal with the issues of men and women. Timestamps: 00:21 Introduction to the series & Jackie 02:08 What does God's intention for men & women working together look like? 04:34 Understand our time & get educated. 06:42 Find a male advocate. 08:52 Jackie's example of a conversation with both men & women where women share their church experiences 10:47 Contacts & resources TranscriptKay >> Hi. I'm Kay Daigle of Beyond Ordinary Women Ministries. I'd like to welcome you to the third video in our series on It's Time for a RelationshipSHIFT. And we're talking about men and women working together as Christians. And I'm with Dr. Jackie Roese, who has a book, RelationSHIFT, as well as some other books. You can read about Jackie, and her material will be on our website as well. You can link to her ministry, The Marcella Project, as well as her material, because probably by now, if you've watched the first two, you want to hear more from Jackie. So we're about to do that. Now we're going to talk about God's dream team. We've talked about some of the problems with men and women in the church and some of the teaching that's behind some of that, some of the misconceptions that's behind that. And now we want to talk about what it would really look like. And I know as a woman who has volunteered in churches as well as been on staff, that sometimes you're quite aware that you have no voice in anything and you'd really like to change that. So how can we as women, affect some change in the church? Jackie >> Great. And that is the big million dollar question, isn't it? I would say first and foremost, we need brothers and sisters bringing change to the church, not just women. And we'll get to that. First and foremost, I think women need to get informed about God's bigger vision, about what did God intend for men and women to serve together collectively in the home, in the church, community, workplace. And I think probably one of the best descriptions out there right now is Carolyn Custis James' description of male and female called The Blessed Alliance. And I'm going to summarize it really quick. But basically, she says in Genesis 1 and 2, God formed the foundation of creation based on two load bearing walls. The first being humanity's relationship with God. And the second load bearing wall in which the world was supposed to operate was male and female relationships. Not just in marriage, which we tend to read only the Genesis passage in a marriage paradigm, but it's actually also talking about community brother, sister. And there's lots that I've written on that and so if that sounds different. But these two load-bearing walls is what the world was supposed to operate on. And together these two are given a mandate. They are to rule, subdue and fill the earth, which fill the earth does include procreation. But really beyond that, what it means is to create civilization. God throws raw material at them and says, have at it. Create societies, create cultures. And so that is the job of male and female and they do it together. So we need to see first and foremost that that is God's desire. We have done a great job of helping humanity reconnect with God.

Dr. Jackie Roese Kay Daigle In this second episode of this series, Dr. Jackie Roese explains the problem with the church's sex narrative. Don't miss this important conversation as she talks with Dr. Kay Daigle about how making men's and women's relationships in the church all about sex is a mistake and why it matters. Many of us have been taught the church's sex narrative and may need to consider its effects. Other Resources Dr. Sandra Glahn on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood Dr. Sandra Glahn on Women in Public Ministry: 1. Revisiting the Issue as Individuals; 2. Revisiting the Issue as Churches. and 3. Misread Women of the Bible. This episode can be accessed on video along with the first episode, It's Time for a RelationSHIFT: It's more than being biblical. If you missed it, you can find the 1st BOW Podcast episode on seeking a RelationSHIFT between men and women in the church: It's More than Being Biblical. Timestamps: 00:21 Introductions 01:13 An example 02:52 Sensitivity toward those who have been abused 03:23 The danger narrative/danger-romance narrative in the Church. 07:36 Is this narrative biblical? 08:48 The biblical narrative TranscriptKay >> Hi. I'm Kay Daigle of Beyond Ordinary Women Ministries. I'd like to welcome you to the second in our series on It's Time for a RelationSHIFT dealing with men and women working together in the church. My guest is Dr. Jackie Roese. Jackie is the Founder and President of The Marcella Project. And you can read more about her and her ministry online on our website at BeyondOrdinaryWomen.org. And I hope you will take advantage of that so that you can even contact Jackie if you need to. Jackie, in our first video, we talked about the fact that the situation between men and women and the way that we work together in the church is more than just the biblical and theological beliefs that we have. In this video, we're going to talk about the fact that there's more involved than just a sex narrative. And I wanted to tell you that not too long ago, a friend highly praised a sermon that she had just heard, so I went online to hear the sermon. It was about men and women together. And I think in light of all of the various things, the sermon focused on how to avoid any kind of sexual contact with anyone of the other sex. But I was pretty horrified because really if you followed what it said, pretty much you wouldn't talk to many men. And he seemed to suggest he told a story about a pastor who was having a book signing and whose son said, why are you so rude to the women? He said, “Oh, they'll whisper their hotel room number in your ear. They'll give you their key.” It seemed to be perfectly fine, according to the sermon, to just be rude to women to avoid them tempting you sexually. So with that background of my horror, really, at thinking about how does somebody even do this in this age with work and things like that, I don't even think it's a practical solution. But even if it were, there's something wrong with treating people poorly just because you think they're a threat. So I want to hear what you had to say. Jackie >> Yeah. So, wow, there's a lot there. First, I would say not only is it wrong because it's not biblical. Kay >> Oh, yeah. Jackie >> So, and this person that you were listening to, they're still teaching this danger romance narrative as the only narrative we see in Scripture. And it's actually not the largest narrative we see. It's not the emphasis of the New Testament. And so I want to talk a little about that. Before I do, let me just say with the #MeToo #ChurchToo movement, there has been a lot of sexual exploitation. And I am very aware and want to be very sensitive to the fact that when there is sexual failure in the church or in the home, it's devastating. And I want to be sensitive to that because people have experienced that. It has blown up their church when their pastor has been inappropriate with a woman or...

Dr. Jackie Roese Dr. Kay Daigle Dr. Jackie Roese joined Kay Daigle some time ago on video (before we started creating podcasts) to discuss Jackie's call for a shift in working relationships between men and women in the church. If you are in any type of leadership--whether paid or unpaid--in a church, you should hear this conversation. Jackie points out some of the walls that women often bump against when they attempt to get things done through men on church staffs. Thus we need a shift in working relationships between men and women in the church. You can now access the videos of the other two conversations. The podcast episodes will drop on 6/3/26 and 6/17/26: It's More Than a Sex Narrative God's Dream Team Other Related BOW Podcast Episodes Healthy Churches for Women Biblical Manhood & Womanhood Timestamps: 00:20 Introductions 01:15 Beyond the biblical passages, why do we need to relate better as men & women in the church? 04:04 This conversation is for women regardless of their position about what women can or cannot do in the church. 05:11 What walls that have nothing to do with the Bible sometimes get in the way of working well with men? TranscriptKay >> Hi. I'm Kay Daigle of Beyond Ordinary Women Ministries. I'd like to welcome you to our video series, It's Time for a RelationSHIFT. And our guest is Dr. Jackie Roese. I have known Jackie since we were in D.T.S. together. And I have been so looking forward to this conversation because this first video is going to be a conversation about It's More Than Being Biblical. And when we talk about a shift in relationships, we're talking about men and women in the church. With all that's been going on in the last couple of years with #metoo and #churchtoo, and all of those things, there's been a lot of conversation about men and women. And much of what I've heard, Jackie, is actually saying that it all has to do with our biblical view of women in the church. And yet you're saying it's more than the theology of women in the church, that there's more at stake here. So I'm very excited to hear what you have to say. Jackie >> Great. Well, thank you for having me here. I'm glad to be here. Yes. First, let me say it does have to do with the Bible. I've been with women who said, “Oh, we don't need to work with 1 Timothy 2. We don't need to figure out, you know, 1 Corinthians 11 or 14. We can just those are ancient texts. They don't apply to us in the modern world.” And so they just don't even want to deal with them. And I'm like, no, no time out. We have got to go and dig and do hard work in the text. We've got to understand those biblical passages. So it is about the Bible, but it is actually about more than the Bible. So what do I mean by that? We have men and women scholars who have in the conservative evangelical world who have studied these particular texts that seem to prohibit women from being fully inclusive in all different leadership roles in the church. And those men and women have landed on very different interpretations—same conservative evangelical faith, tradition, you know, orthodox theologians, and they disagree. Kay >> They're not, it's not a liberal/conservative thing. Jackie >> No, it is not someone way over here or someone way over here. I'm talking about people in your own circle. Theologians and scholars in your own circle disagree on the interpretation of those passages that seem to restrict women. So we have that, and we need to deal with that. That's first and foremost. But I've been a pastor for about 20 years and being a female pastor who happens to be gifted in preaching, I had to learn that it has to do with more than just what your stances on those particular passages. Kay >> So we don't want to scare off women from listening to us who might be more conservative than you and their perspective of those passages. Jackie >> Absolutely.

Elizabeth Woodson Kay Daigle As Christians in a world that doesn't follow Christ, it's essential not to let the culture around us form us. God desires his children to become more and more like Jesus. Too often, however, we fail to be aware of the voices around us that are forming us instead. Elizabeth Woodson shares from her latest book, calling us to resist the culture's formation rather than the Spirit's. Elizabeth not only helps us recognize common ways we are being formed by culture, she also provides the antidote. She suggests specific spiritual practices to implement. Don't miss this important conversation. Recommended resources Elizabeth's book Habits of Resistance: 7 Ways you are being Formed By Culture and Gospel Practices To Help You Push Back BOW series: Re-imagining Discipleship  Exploring Spiritual Practices podcast episode Elizabeth's website This episode is available on video if you prefer. Timestamps: 00:21 Introductions 01:23 What are you suggesting that we need to resist? 05:08 The better peace that Christ gives 14:21 The better identity Christ gives 20:03 The better justice Christ gives 24:46 Resources TranscriptKay >> Hi. I'm Kay Daigle of Beyond Ordinary Women Ministries. Welcome to our podcast today. I'm very excited to welcome Elizabeth Woodson, who has been with us before. Welcome, Elizabeth. We're so glad that you're here. Elizabeth >> Thanks for having me, Kay. It's great to be here. Kay >> Oh, you're welcome. Elizabeth is a Bible teacher, an author and a speaker. She has a degree from Dallas Seminary in Christian Education. And she has a new book out, and we're going to be talking about it today. The name of the book is Habits of Resistance. And the subtitle is Seven Ways You're Being Formed by Culture and Gospel Practices to Help You Push Back. So right there, hopefully the title will just pull people in, Elizabeth, because I think it's a great title and it helps us understand what's in the book. So it's Habits of Resistance. What are you suggesting that we need to resist? Elizabeth >> That is definitely an interesting title. We wanted to be able to draw people in with something that would make them ask that question. And so what we are wanting people to resist, or what I hope for people to resist, is being formed by the culture. And so it's the idea that our discipleship is not neutral, right? So being disciples isn't just being disciples of Jesus. We are disciples of whoever we follow. And unfortunately, I think we're in a space where maybe some of us have drifted from the path of Jesus more than we like to admit. And the fruit of our lives reflect that we're being formed by the culture. And so the encouragement through the book is to be aware of that, but also to practice these spiritual disciplines that help us resist that formation current that the culture is trying to keep us in. Kay >> Well, I certainly see the need for that. What did you see in us in the church that motivated you to write this particular book? Elizabeth >> Yeah. I saw things pop up in the place where a good portion of us like to hang out, which is social media, the gathering spaces that we have online. And so it's probably no surprise to the people who are listening that sometimes the comments sections on social media can be a bit of a dumpster fire even between Christians as we are disagreeing about things that we have difference of opinion. But in doing so, we dishonor one another as image bearers. And also is maybe just the subtle habits of what we're purchasing! And so I think there are aspects of overconsumption that we're just being pushed things and maybe our houses are full of too many things. Mine too, Kay, the Amazon boxes are showing up at my door, but the question is what is motivating us to push that buy button? And are we stewards of what God has given us? And so there's a couple other things I could list,

Laura Barringer Sadly, we've recognized over the past decade or so that healthy churches for women are not as prevalent as we'd like to believe. Too often such churches have abused, dismissed and devalued women who have much to give them. In this episode, Laura Barringer, co-author of The Church of Tov: Forming a Goodness Culture That Resists Abuses of Power and Promotes Healing, joins Dr. Kelley Mathews to discuss what healthy churches for women looks like and how to spot them. Recommended resources A Church Called Tov: Forming a Goodness Culture That Resists Abuses of Power and Promotes Healing by Scot McKnight and Laura Barringer. Recognizing Rape Culture podcast episode Caring for Women Who Struggle with Porn podcast episode Sexual Abuse in the Church podcast episode BOW's episodes on Caring Well and Church Issues This episode is available on video as well. Timestamps: 00:21 Introduction of Laura Barringer and A Church called TOV, the book she wrote with her father, Dr. Scot McNight. 02:03 Why did you partner with your father on this book? 05:39 What is tov? 08:32 How do we discern that a church is good, not toxic, for women in particular? 12:10 Elements of tov culture: compassion & empathy 18:14 What would you suggest churches do in order to value and see women? 20:21 How can a leader help her church culture avoid sexual abuse or trauma in the church? 27:02 It's much more than simply including women. 30:38 Other resources TranscriptKelley >> Welcome to Beyond Ordinary Women Ministries. I am Kelley Mathews and I am here today with Laura Barringer. She is the coauthor with her father, Scott McKnight, of several books. But today we're going to talk about tov, A Church Called Tov. I'm going to give it a little bit of publicity right here. So welcome, Laura. Thank you for taking your time with us today. Laura >> Thank you for having me. It's an honor to be with you. I'm grateful to be here and to meet you and hear a little bit more, too, about your ministry for women. Kelley >> Oh, yes. This is you'll hear more about it as we go along. But we do a lot of these interviews, really, and just provide resources for support. I would say primarily women leaders in the church. But obviously when they're online, anybody can access them. So we will hopefully add this resource for looking at churches and what they can do and why they can do—make take real, tangible steps towards being safe and healthy churches, particularly for women. And so both of your books, the other one is called Pivot, but where and that's a newer one, but we're going to stick with the older one. And it was very foundational, I think, to the conversation over the last, what, seven, eight years, maybe? I forgot exactly when it came out. Laura >> 2020. The fall of 2020. Kelley >> Only five. Oh, wow. OK. Laura >> Yeah. Kelley >> Yeah. Well, that's you know, Covid does a lot to make time disappear, I think. Laura >> It makes everything it makes everything fuzzy. Kelley >> Oh, goodness. Well, why did you partner with your father? I mean, we if anyone doesn't know Dr. McKnight is a New Testament scholar and writer and professor. And why did you guys partner up to write this book? Laura >> I wanted him to write the book. So that was the original plan. The book started as a personal story for us. In 2018, in March of 2018, a story broke up here. I live just outside of Chicago. The Chicago Tribune is the major newspaper here in the city. And it was a story about our former church, Willow Creek, our former pastor, Bill Hybels. It was a story about accusations, sexual accusations made against him by a number of women, most of whom somebody in our family knew. And it was a very disorienting, I speak of it now, but at the time it was very disorienting. It was disorienting because the church was saying the women were lying and the women were saying the church was lying.

Dr. Sandra Glahn What does ancient Christian art created in a culture of orality reveal about women in the early church? Dr. Sandra Glahn of Dallas Seminary joins Sharifa Stevens of Beyond Ordinary Women in this conversation about the visual record of women in the early church. In a time when many people were illiterate, the church used visual images to teach the people and honor those who were heroes of the faith. By studying the art of the Byzantine Era, we are able to learn more about the church of that day. The Visual Museum of Women in Christianity has created a place for us to see many of these images today and provide free access to downloadable pictures of these pieces of art. You will find this conversation both educational and a delight as you hear the amazing stories of prominent women in the early church. Sharifa Stevens Recommended resources The Visual Museum of Women in Christianity BOW Podcast episode Using the Center for Women in Leadership BOW Podcast episode Women & Worship in the Early Church This episode is available on video as well. Timestamps: 00:21 Introductions 01:19 What is the Visual Museum of Women in Christianity and how can I access the free downloads 03:39 What women in church history are found in the visual record? 08:49 Why are these names and their stories important to know? 25:06 In what countries are you looking for more visual resources? 26:10 How does visual storytelling change the way people understand theology, Scripture and churches? 30:26 How do you select the women to feature next? 35:56 Resources TranscriptSharifa >> Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Beyond Ordinary Women Podcast. I am your host for today, Sharifa Stevens, and I would like to introduce you to someone whom I admire. Dr. Sandra Glahn is a journalist and also the author, coauthor or editor of more than 20 books. She serves as Professor of Media Arts and Worship at Dallas Theological Seminary. You can discover more about Dr. Glahn on our website, BeyondOrdinaryWomen.org. Dr. Glahn's most recent endeavor is the Visual Museum of Women in Christianity which we're going to learn more about today. Welcome, Dr. Glahn. Dr. Glahn >> Thank you so much. What a pleasure to see you. Sharifa >> Well, it's a pleasure to see you always. I wanted to just jump in to questions about the Visual Museum of Women in Christianity because I'm a newbie to this subject, and I'm sure there would be plenty of people in the audience who are intrigued and want to know more. So let's get started. Dr. Glahn >> Let's do it. Sharifa >> How would you describe the museum to someone encountering it for the first time? Dr. Glahn >> It's a place to get free high quality photos of women and the history of the church, particularly the early church and Byzantine eras. Maybe in 4.0 we'll be looking at every century of the church, but really it's focused much more on women in the early church. And it's a resource with free downloads where you don't have to ask permission. You don't have to say where you got it. Everything is a work for hire with photographers so that women are much more easy, much more easily accessed if you want to include visuals with a presentation. What we found, well, there's probably more than you need it just for a short explanation, but Sharifa >> no. Dr. Glahn >> we found that when we were looking to add women to PowerPoints and talks and people were looking for them for sermons, they're hidden behind paywalls. The art was paywalled or it was clipart. So it was one extreme or the other, the really high quality stuff. You know, it was illegal. If it was if it was even there. And so this is an effort to make it super accessible. Sharifa >> When you say early church, just for those of us who might not have a clear timeline of the Byzantine era, what are the years that we're talking about? Dr. Glahn >> So early church, of course,

Jamie Grant Heather Parker In this second episode with counselors Jamie Grant and Heather Parker, they talk about the gift of anger, how it is a gift to us as we learn to notice what's going on within our hearts when it arises. In this conversation they explain where anger comes from, inward and outward anger and the possibility that anger is masking other losses. Connect to Episode 1: Does My Anger Matter to God? if you missed it.   Recommended resources The Voice of a Heart: A Call to Full Living by Chip Dodd Tim Keller's sermon, The Healing of Anger The Faces of Rage by David Damico (out of publication but used books available online) Heather Parker at waterstonecounseling.org Jamie Grant at MetanoiaDallas.com This episode is available on video as well. Timestamps: 00:22 Introductions 01:10 Summary of Episode 1 03:33 Understanding where anger comes from 09:10 Outward and inward anger 16:15 Which is worse---outward or inner anger? 21:06 Losses can underlie anger. 24:38 Anger can be a gift. 35:47 Resources TranscriptKay >> Hi. I'm Kay Daigle of Beyond Ordinary Women Ministries. Welcome to our podcast and video episode. We have today guests who have returned. Two weeks ago in our podcast we welcomed Jamie Grant and Heather Parker, who are both licensed professional counselors. We have been talking about anger. We've been talking about all sorts of things, and we're extending that today to a second session because there was so much information that they gave us that we want to dig a little bit deeper into anger, particularly as Christians. So, Heather, tell us a little bit summarize a little bit of what we've already heard and talked about before we go into a new area of anger. Heather >> Sure. So in the last one, we talked about the perception. Well, first we talked about anger—how do we see that in the image of God and really highlighting that God is slow to anger. There’s a real there's a lot of restraint and it's not long lasting. That is the truth of how we see anger in God. That's not always how we're taught. Sometimes we're taught that he is a rageful God but Scripture tells us otherwise. So we kind of hit a little highlight on that. We spoke of the perception of anger in the church—that oftentimes anger can be viewed as sin or it's bad. And if it's sinful and it's bad, then we're bad. Yeah. Jamie, you can jump in at any time too. Yeah. We talked a little bit about just the perception of it really highlighting the difference between God-given anger that shows us something's not okay. It exposes what we're passionate about and shows us something's not okay. It's not sitting well with me and can eventually inform how we want to approach that. And really highlight the difference between that and a rage or acting out or the quick-tempered what we often see in families and society. And even often in our churches. We talked about, yeah, just how anger—sometimes people in leadership will want to make sure that people stay away from their anger. And that comes out in an element of control and that can look a lot of different ways. But overall, the messaging around anger as being bad or negative starts really young and is often widespread, especially in Christian circles. Yeah, anything I leave out, Jamie? Jamie >> I think that was a great recap. I think what made it a nice kind of segue into what we talk about today is you know, if there's, as you were saying, like these beliefs around anger as being bad or if I'm taught anger is bad and therefore I internalize this message that I'm bad because I'm experiencing this emotion of anger. There's also some other messages that we get as children because we're you know, this isn't going to be a parent finger-pointing episode or session. But we are—we’re sinful people raised by sinful parents in a sinful world. So we're going to get messages around our emotions based on how we're brought up.