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Your salon has a level system, but some of your strongest stylists are stuck. Is the problem their performance, or are the requirements no longer realistic? In this episode, Evan and Christopher look at what happens when a level system doesn’t keep up with changes in services, pricing, and the way stylists build their careers. They discuss why a high-performing artist might struggle to meet a retail target even while delivering strong service and retaining clients, and how holding that artist at the same level can limit both their earning potential and the salon’s growth. They also explore client-count goals that don’t match the time today’s services require, how to start a conversation with your team about metrics that aren’t working, and why small, flat price increases can mean less of a promotion for your most experienced artists. If your level system isn’t helping your stylists and your salon move forward, this conversation will help you see where to take another look. 🔗 Resources & Links 📈 Learn more about Growth Coaching:https://www.therefinenetwork.com/growth-coaching 🎓 Explore The Artist Academy:https://www.therefinenetwork.com/artistacademy 📊 Discover SCALE (the Refine systems program):https://www.therefinenetwork.com/scale 📲 Download The Refine Network App (Apple & Android):Search “The Refine Network” in your app store 📸 Follow us on Instagram:@therefinenetwork Chapters00:00 Concert tips and protecting your hearing03:32 Why stylists get stuck in level systems05:47 Is it the stylist or the metric?07:07 Rethinking retail goals as stylists advance08:20 How to talk with your team about changing expectations11:42 When client count no longer matches the services13:17 Building a career path that supports retention14:18 Why salons need a level system16:16 When it’s time to reevaluate yours17:02 The problem with a $5 increase at every level18:12 How Refine can help

If you keep hiring the same type of person and getting the same disappointing result, it may be time to take a closer look at your process. In this episode, we’re breaking down how your mindset, interview questions, onboarding, and decision-makers all influence who joins your team. We also explore why seeing potential in someone isn’t always the same as identifying the right fit. You’ll learn how to hire around your core values, recognize qualities like humility, drive, kindness, and coachability, and protect your culture when someone isn’t the right fit. The wrong hire can cost you financially, emotionally, and culturally. Sometimes, it really is better to have no one than the wrong one. 🔗 Resources & Links 📈 Learn more about Growth Coaching:https://www.therefinenetwork.com/growth-coaching 🎓 Explore The Artist Academy:https://www.therefinenetwork.com/artistacademy 📊 Discover SCALE (the Refine systems program):https://www.therefinenetwork.com/scale 📲 Download The Refine Network App (Apple & Android):Search “The Refine Network” in your app store 📸 Follow us on Instagram:@therefinenetwork Chapters 00:00 What Pet Would You Choose?02:11 Why You Keep Getting the Same Hiring Results02:34 Changing Your Hiring Mindset04:20 Is Your Hiring Process the Problem?05:22 Who Should Make the Hiring Decision?06:25 Seeing Potential vs. Seeing the Right Fit07:09 Protecting Your Salon Culture07:32 Interview Questions That Reveal Character08:56 What Are Your Five-Year Goals?10:42 Hiring Around Your Vision and Core Values12:04 Your Team Reflects Your Leadership14:20 Knowing When Someone Isn’t the Right Fit15:20 Five Qualities to Look for in a New Hire19:11 How to Tell if Someone Is Coachable20:34 If It’s Not a Hell Yes, It’s a Hell No21:26 Reverse the Interview Question22:39 Take Your Leadership Further

Your color bar could be costing your salon more than you think. In this episode, we sit down with leaders from L’ANZA and Vish to break down what’s really happening behind the color bar—from product waste and excess inventory to services that are performed but never actually charged for. We talk about how understanding your true cost per application can uncover hidden profit, why more inventory doesn’t necessarily mean better results, and how better systems create accountability without putting the burden on your team or your guests. You’ll also hear how technology can improve communication between stylists and the front desk, help salons charge consistently for the work they’re already doing, and turn money that was once being lost into opportunities for education, improvements, and growth. If you’ve never taken a close look at what your color bar is actually costing you, this conversation might change the way you think about it. 🔗 Resources & Links 📈 Learn more about Growth Coaching:https://www.therefinenetwork.com/growth-coaching 🎓 Explore The Artist Academy:https://www.therefinenetwork.com/artistacademy 📊 Discover SCALE (the Refine systems program):https://www.therefinenetwork.com/scale 📲 Download The Refine Network App (Apple & Android):Search “The Refine Network” in your app store 📸 Follow us on Instagram:@therefinenetwork Chapters 00:00 Welcome to Talks with the Refine Network00:07 Meet L’ANZA’s Global Artistic Director00:30 The Story Behind Vish01:12 What Your Color Services Are Actually Costing You01:33 How Much Product Is Going to Waste?02:13 Turning Color Inventory Into Profit02:33 The Problem With Dead Stock03:16 Setting Better Color Benchmarks04:29 Creating Accountability at the Color Bar05:28 Better Communication = Fewer Missed Charges06:14 20% of Salon Services Aren’t Being Paid For06:38 Why L’ANZA’s Model Works07:23 The Profitability Problem in the Salon Industry07:47 Why Technology Belongs at the Color Bar08:26 Closing Thoughts

What happens when you intentionally invest in developing talent from the very beginning? In this episode, you’ll hear from Chantal and Lily of ECLIPS Salon about the power of salon apprenticeship from both sides of the experience. Chantal shares what they’ve learned from 15 years of developing apprentices, while Lily gives you a look at what it’s like to learn, grow, and build confidence within the program today. They dive into how apprenticeship can shape technical skills, salon culture, client relationships, and the confidence someone carries into their career. You’ll also hear why ECLIPS starts with the skills that allow apprentices to contribute to the team right away, how clients become part of their growth, and what it takes to stay patient when you’re still finding your footing. Whether you have an apprenticeship program or hire through a more traditional path, this conversation is a reminder that developing great people takes intention. Give them the tools, education, confidence, and support to grow, and you’re not just preparing them to work behind the chair — you’re helping them build a career that lasts. 🔗 Resources & Links 📈 Learn more about Growth Coaching:https://www.therefinenetwork.com/growth-coaching 🎓 Explore The Artist Academy:https://www.therefinenetwork.com/artistacademy 📊 Discover SCALE (the Refine systems program):https://www.therefinenetwork.com/scale 📲 Download The Refine Network App (Apple & Android):Search “The Refine Network” in your app store 📸 Follow us on Instagram:@therefinenetwork CHAPTERS:00:00 – Beauty Secrets & Hair Hacks01:41 – The Power of Salon Apprenticeship04:37 – Choosing Apprenticeship as a Career Path07:17 – How Apprenticeship Supports Salon Culture & Clients09:40 – Learning the Skills Behind the Chair12:15 – Building an Apprenticeship Curriculum That Works14:45 – Setting Future Stylists Up for Success16:43 – Confidence, Patience & Building a Lasting Career18:37 – Investing in the Next Generation

If everyone on your team agrees with you, it might be time to ask a different question. The best leaders aren't surrounded by "yes people." They're surrounded by people who care enough to challenge ideas, ask hard questions, and protect the vision—even when it's uncomfortable. In this episode, we talk about why healthy disagreement is one of the greatest assets your business can have, how to create a culture where your team feels safe speaking up, and why inviting feedback makes you a stronger leader. You'll learn: Why "yes people" can quietly hurt your business How to encourage honest feedback from your team The difference between being supportive and simply agreeable Why healthy conflict leads to better decisions How to build trust that allows people to challenge ideas If you're building a team and want better conversations—not just more agreement—this episode is for you. 🔗 Resources & Links 📈 Learn more about Growth Coaching: https://www.therefinenetwork.com/growth-coaching 🎓 Explore The Artist Academy: https://www.therefinenetwork.com/artistacademy 📊 Discover SCALE (the Refine systems program): https://www.therefinenetwork.com/scale 📲 Download The Refine Network App (Apple & Android): Search “The Refine Network” in your app store 📸 Follow us on Instagram: @therefinenetwork 00:00 If Your Personality Was a Condiment... 02:13 Why Great Leaders Don't Want "Yes People" 03:16 The Equity You Lose by Overpromising 04:27 Why Your Team Shouldn't Agree With Everything 06:19 The Ego Trap Every Leader Faces 08:00 How Great Teams Challenge Their Leaders 09:13 Coaching Someone Who Always Says Yes 10:30 How to Ask for Feedback (and Actually Hear It) 12:27 Trust Before Tough Conversations 13:38 Don't Mistake Silence for Buy-In 15:35 Creating a Culture of Honest Feedback 17:16 Pressure-Test Big Decisions Before They Go Live

Building a successful salon doesn't always mean you're charging the right prices. In this episode, Christopher sits down with Michelle Rouser of 40 Volume Salon to unpack what happened after taking her team through REFINE's SCALE program. Together, they discuss the importance of understanding your numbers, creating pricing strategies backed by data instead of assumptions, and involving your leadership team in major business decisions. They also explore how transparency builds trust, why team buy-in matters, and how strong systems help salons grow with confidence instead of guesswork. Whether you're questioning your pricing, leading a growing team, or simply trying to make smarter business decisions, this conversation offers practical insights into building a healthier, more sustainable salon. 🔗 Resources & Links 📈 Learn more about Growth Coaching:https://www.therefinenetwork.com/growth-coaching 🎓 Explore The Artist Academy:https://www.therefinenetwork.com/artistacademy 📊 Discover SCALE (the Refine systems program):https://www.therefinenetwork.com/scale 📲 Download The Refine Network App (Apple & Android):Search “The Refine Network” in your app store 📸 Follow us on Instagram:@therefinenetwork 00:00 Intro & Icebreaker03:00 How 40 Volume Got Its Name05:00 Why Great Leaders Don't Make Big Decisions Alone08:15 When to Listen... and When to Lead12:00 The Moment the Numbers Changed Everything15:40 The Hidden Cost of Guessing Your Prices19:30 Pricing With Confidence Instead of Fear21:20 How to Get Your Team Bought In24:50 The Leadership Skills That Matter Most29:25 Is SCALE Worth It?31:30 Final Thoughts

One of the hardest leadership moments you'll face as a salon owner is when an employee gives notice and asks to stay for a few more weeks. Do you let them finish out their schedule?Do you ask them to leave immediately?How do you protect your team, your culture, and your business while still treating people with respect? In this episode, Christopher and Evan discuss the factors every leader should consider before making that decision. They cover employee posture, relational equity, setting clear boundaries, protecting the team that's staying, and why reacting emotionally can lead to poor leadership decisions. Every situation is different, but having a framework for navigating these conversations can help you lead with confidence instead of emotion. Subscribe for more conversations on leadership, salon culture, business growth, and building a healthier company through theREFINEnetwork. 🔗 Resources & Links 📈 Learn more about Growth Coaching:https://www.therefinenetwork.com/growth-coaching 🎓 Explore The Artist Academy:https://www.therefinenetwork.com/artistacademy 📊 Discover SCALE (the Refine systems program):https://www.therefinenetwork.com/scale 📲 Download The Refine Network App (Apple & Android):Search “The Refine Network” in your app store 📸 Follow us on Instagram:@therefinenetwork 00:00 – What's Not Working in the Salon Industry?03:37 – Should You Let an Employee Stay After Giving Notice?05:03 – The First Things Leaders Should Consider06:11 – Why Employee Posture Matters08:18 – When Letting Someone Stay Actually Works09:10 – Protect the Team That's Staying09:51 – Setting Clear Expectations and Boundaries10:34 – Questions Every Exit Conversation Should Include12:17 – Don't Make Emotional Decisions13:59 – Exit Interviews and Leadership Lessons15:01 – Why Growth Sometimes Means People Leave17:09 – When It's Time to End the Transition Early20:18 – Why Community Makes Better Leaders

What helps some stylists grow faster than others? It's not just technical skill. In this conversation from ABS Chicago, Ruthie and Alondra of Silver Salon share the mindset shifts that have shaped their careers in just two years behind the chair. They talk about building a strong foundation before chasing every new opportunity, creating unforgettable client experiences, receiving feedback without becoming defensive, and why self-awareness might be one of the most important skills a stylist can develop. Whether you're new behind the chair or years into your career, this episode is a reminder that lasting growth comes from staying curious, coachable, and committed to learning. If you enjoyed this conversation, subscribe for more conversations on leadership, culture, business, and personal growth in the beauty industry. 🔗 Resources & Links 📈 Learn more about Growth Coaching:https://www.therefinenetwork.com/growth-coaching 🎓 Explore The Artist Academy:https://www.therefinenetwork.com/artistacademy 📊 Discover SCALE (the Refine systems program):https://www.therefinenetwork.com/scale 📲 Download The Refine Network App (Apple & Android):Search “The Refine Network” in your app store 📸 Follow us on Instagram:@therefinenetwork 00:00 If You Could Only Keep One Thing...02:31 First Impressions of ABS Chicago03:13 Lessons on Client Experience & Consultations05:04 What Builds Client Retention?07:36 Enneagram Strengths & Blind Spots11:08 When Should Stylists Learn Extensions?14:23 Advice for New Stylists15:17 Why Feedback Is a Gift19:35 Communication, Growth & Self-Awareness21:03 The Power of Knowing Yourself22:29 Final Thoughts

In this episode, Erin Silver shares what happened when she went through SCALE for a second time and why the experience landed differently than it did the first time. Erin opens up about stepping fully into her role as an owner, uncovering financial realities that were limiting her salon's growth, and using data to create greater clarity and buy-in across her team. The conversation explores pricing, profitability, leadership development, delegation, and the importance of moving beyond a stylist mindset to lead a business effectively. Erin also shares how investing in her own growth as a leader has impacted her team, strengthened her culture, and created opportunities for people at every stage of their careers. Whether you're a salon owner, leader, or aspiring entrepreneur, this episode offers practical insights on building a stronger, healthier business through intentional leadership and financial clarity. 🔗 Resources & Links 📈 Learn more about Growth Coaching:https://www.therefinenetwork.com/growth-coaching 🎓 Explore The Artist Academy:https://www.therefinenetwork.com/artistacademy 📊 Discover SCALE (the Refine systems program):https://www.therefinenetwork.com/scale 📲 Download The Refine Network App (Apple & Android):Search “The Refine Network” in your app store 📸 Follow us on Instagram:@therefinenetwork00:00 Running Shoes, Magnesium & TikTok Shop 03:03 Why SCALE Hit Differently the Second Time 03:56 Thinking Like an Owner Instead of a Stylist 04:37 The Numbers That Were Holding Us Back 05:19 Pricing Services with Data, Not Guesswork 07:13 How to Get Team Buy-In 10:42 Developing High-Performing Salon Teams 11:29 Stop Micromanaging and Start Leading 13:41 Why Leaders Need to Be Visible 15:19 The Belief Shift That Changes Everything 16:27 What Every New Salon Owner Should Do First 18:24 Final Thoughts

What does it actually feel like to go through a major salon pricing shift? In this episode, Christopher sits down with Megan from Mercer Hair Studio to talk about her experience going through SCALE and the emotional reality of raising prices as a stylist. From anxiety and overthinking to confidence and clarity, Megan shares what it looked like to navigate pricing changes inside a growing salon, communicate those changes to clients, and confront the internal fear of wondering if she was truly “worth” more. The conversation dives into:- The mindset challenges behind price increases- What SCALE implementation actually felt like- Fear of losing loyal clients- Communicating pricing with confidence- The connection between pricing and self-worth- Building financial stability behind the chair- Growth culture inside Mercer Hair Studio If pricing conversations make you uncomfortable or you’ve ever questioned your value as a stylist, this episode offers a real and honest perspective from someone who went through it firsthand. 🔗 Resources & Links 📈 Learn more about Growth Coaching:https://www.therefinenetwork.com/growth-coaching 🎓 Explore The Artist Academy:https://www.therefinenetwork.com/artistacademy 📊 Discover SCALE (the Refine systems program):https://www.therefinenetwork.com/scale 📲 Download The Refine Network App (Apple & Android):Search “The Refine Network” in your app store 📸 Follow us on Instagram:@therefinenetwork Chapters 00:00 – ABS Chicago, Packing Styles & Enneagram Talk02:29 – Meet Megan from Mercer Hair Studio03:10 – Megan’s First Reaction to SCALE04:08 – Building Her Career & Moving to South Carolina05:06 – Growing a Diverse, Fully Booked Clientele06:26 – Operating at 110% Behind the Chair07:47 – Implementing SCALE Inside the Salon08:29 – “Am I Worth This New Price?”09:24 – Learning How to Talk About Price Increases10:49 – What Actually Happened After Raising Prices11:48 – Financial Freedom & Charging More13:01 – Advice for Stylists Struggling With Pricing14:13 – Growth Culture at Mercer Hair Studio15:43 – Letting Go of Scarcity & Fear17:00 – Final Thoughts & Outro

What actually happens when you raise your salon prices? In this episode, Crystal Mercer joins the podcast to talk about leadership, culture, pricing psychology, and building a salon team that can truly thrive. The conversation dives into the emotional side of price increases, why so many owners stay stuck playing small, and how fear around money impacts both leaders and stylists. Crystal also shares how she built a culture centered around honesty, accountability, and helping team members create real careers—not just jobs. From hiring with intention to giving teams grace during change, this episode is a powerful look at what sustainable salon leadership actually requires. If you're a salon owner trying to grow without losing your culture, this conversation is for you. 🔗 Resources & Links 📈 Learn more about Growth Coaching:https://www.therefinenetwork.com/growth-coaching 🎓 Explore The Artist Academy:https://www.therefinenetwork.com/artistacademy 📊 Discover SCALE (the Refine systems program):https://www.therefinenetwork.com/scale 📲 Download The Refine Network App (Apple & Android):Search “The Refine Network” in your app store 📸 Follow us on Instagram:@therefinenetwork 00:00 Intro + What’s New Right Now01:18 Training a Manager for the First Time03:02 Why Salon Owners Don’t Believe Bigger Is Possible05:10 Stop Treating Your Team Like Children06:18 Hiring for Character, Not Just Talent07:54 The Power of Radical Candor in Leadership09:04 Building a Culture People Want to Stay Connected To10:25 Brand Value, Growth, and Outgrowing Your Space11:45 What Salon Owners Miss About Price Increases13:30 Helping Teams Feel Confident About Pricing14:05 Creating Careers That Actually Support Life16:29 Changing the Way People View the Beauty Industry19:01 Why Retail Numbers Often Dip After Price Changes20:35 Giving Your Team Grace During Transition21:38 What Made SCALE Different From Other Coaching Programs23:50 Why Great Leaders Need People Who Challenge Them25:01 Final Thoughts on Leadership, Culture, and Growth

What do you do when a stylist keeps getting redos? It’s easy to jump to firing.But most of the time, that’s not actually the solution. In this episode, we break down what’s really going on when clients keep coming back for adjustments. From rushed consultations to skipping steps, to pride getting in the way of growth. We talk through how to identify whether it’s a skill issue, a process issue, or a mindset issue… and how to lead that conversation in a way that actually helps someone improve. Because redos aren’t just about fixing hair.They’re about how you lead your team. If you’re a salon owner or leader trying to figure out when to coach and when to let go, this conversation will give you a clearer way forward. Website: https://www.therefinenetwork.com/ Follow Refine:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/therefinenetwork/Website: https://www.therefinenetwork.com/ 00:00 Intro Question00:35 Quick Intro Conversation02:30 What Do You Do When a Stylist Keeps Getting Redos?03:15 Why Firing Isn’t the First Move04:10 Skill vs Process: Finding the Real Issue05:20 When Speed Becomes the Problem06:30 The Consultation Breakdown07:10 Why You Should Be Tracking Redos08:00 Coaching Instead of Telling09:00 Pride, Ego, and Coachability10:15 Separating Identity from Performance11:20 Avoiding Blame + Staying Focused12:30 Getting to the Root Problem13:45 Using Team Culture to Reinforce Growth15:00 When It Becomes a Bigger Issue16:00 Leadership Takeaways

If you’ve been hearing us talk about SCALE and wondering what it actually is—this episode is your inside look. We break down where SCALE started, how it’s evolved, and what it’s becoming as we move into a more streamlined, software-driven experience. We also talk through: Why so many salon owners feel disconnected from their numbersWhat’s typically happening behind the scenes in growing salonsHow SCALE supports owners in gaining clarity and making better decisionsReal feedback and results from salon owners currently going through it This isn’t a deep dive into the numbers—it’s a look at the bigger picture of what SCALE is, who it’s for, and why it’s making an impact. If you’ve been curious, this is the place to start. 👉 Want to learn more?DM us or head to https://www.therefinenetwork.com/scale and click “Have a coach reach out.” Follow Refine:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/therefinenetwork/Website: https://www.therefinenetwork.com/ Chapters:00:00 Intro02:30 Tracking Habits05:00 What is SCALE05:45 Who It’s For07:00 Numbers Struggle08:00 SCALE Evolution10:45 What Makes It Different11:45 Results + Feedback13:40 ROI15:00 The Process16:15 Workshops17:00 Get Started

Great service is expected.Hospitality is what makes you unforgettable. In this episode, we break down what “unreasonable hospitality” actually means for salon owners — and why it may be the single greatest competitive advantage you have. We talk about:- The difference between service and hospitality- The problem with “good enough”- Why connection always comes before systems- How small, thoughtful gestures create lifelong clients- How to systematize hospitality so it becomes culture — not coincidence If you care about retention, leadership, and building something that feels different — this conversation is for you. 🔗 Resources & Links 📈 Learn more about Growth Coaching:https://www.therefinenetwork.com/growth-coaching 🎓 Explore The Artist Academy:https://www.therefinenetwork.com/artistacademy 📊 Discover SCALE (the Refine systems program):https://www.therefinenetwork.com/scale 📲 Download The Refine Network App (Apple & Android):Search “The Refine Network” in your app store 📸 Follow us on Instagram:@therefinenetwork Chapters 00:00 — Best & Worst Service Stories03:04 — Why This Book Matters04:44 — From #50 to #1: The Power of Hospitality05:30 — Service vs. Hospitality06:40 — The Problem with “Good Enough”08:03 — The Flower Story10:14 — The 3 Pillars of Hospitality12:02 — Parking, Details & First Impressions15:07 — Generosity as a Strategy17:28 — Reframing Fees & Profit17:49 — Systemizing Hospitality21:13 — Real Salon Examples23:16 — Final Takeaways

Most stylists aren’t lacking talent.They’re lacking structure. In this episode, we sit down with Gareth to talk about Classic Cutting — the foundational system that has guided every haircut he’s done for over 30 years. We unpack:• Why so many stylists feel confident with color but uncertain with cutting• The gap between cosmetology school and advanced education• Why “advanced” classes don’t work without fundamentals• How structure creates creative freedom• The difference between copying techniques and understanding why they work This isn’t about replacing other cutting methods.It’s about building the foundation that makes everything else stronger. When you understand the fundamentals, you stop guessing.You stop re-cutting.You stop hoping it works out. You start creating with confidence. If you’re a stylist looking for stability behind the chair — or a salon owner wanting stronger cutters on your team — this conversation is for you. 🔗 Resources & Links 📈 Learn more about Growth Coaching:https://www.therefinenetwork.com/growth-coaching 🎓 Explore The Artist Academy:https://www.therefinenetwork.com/artistacademy 📊 Discover SCALE (the Refine systems program):https://www.therefinenetwork.com/scale 📲 Download The Refine Network App (Apple & Android):Search “The Refine Network” in your app store 📸 Follow us on Instagram:@therefinenetwork Chapters:00:00 — Icebreaker & Hygiene Lessons03:12 — Meet Gareth04:37 — From London to the U.S.07:37 — Education & Early Career Growth12:45 — The Surface Education Story15:26 — Why Classic Cutting Matters17:18 — The Foundation Behind Every Haircut20:21 — Cutting vs. Color Education22:17 — The Education Gap in America25:21 — Bridging School & Advanced Training27:28 — Digital Education & Scale28:31 — Leadership Without Ego30:03 — What’s Next for Classic Cutting